sRGB LCD? HP LP2475w, Samsung 245T, or other?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Fia24, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    Hi all,

    I need a decent LCD monitor for working solely in sRGB colorspace (web design & web video for an intensive site). My employer is paying for it. Unfortunately, I could not get approval for the NEC 2490WUXi. :(

    I need something in the CAD$600-800 range. I found these options:
    • HP LP2475w (S-IPS panel)
    • Samsung 245T (S-PVA panel)

    Unfortunately, I heard that both of these come with poor or no sRGB presets and are tricky to calibrate. Can anyone comment from experience on this matter? Also, can anyone suggest any other monitors I should look into?
     
  2. albovin

    albovin [H]ard|Gawd

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    Both are not suitable for sRGB work.
    Dell 2408 (similar to Sams 245T)
    HP 2475w (see discussion in their forum).

    Other IPS options:
    Apple Cinema 23" 1920x1200
    Nec 2190UXi 1600x1200
    No idea about prices in CAD.
    Unfortunately we cannot order monitors we like and prices we like. We need to pay what they cost or step down to lower quality products.
    *VAs:
    NEC 2470WNX
    BenQ 241W
     
  3. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    From what I see of reviews, the two VA's you suggested are also not suitable for sRGB work?
     
  4. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    Now that I have a little more time, here are some samples of my latest findings re. sRGB for the following monitors:


    NEC 2470WNX & BenQ FP241W
    Price & specs are ok. NEC 2470 pushes the budget slightly. BenQ 241 is MVA panel, so I'm skeptical. But I'm having trouble finding reviews specific to these 2 monitors' sRGB use, beyond simple "supports sRGB" comments. Could've sworn I read something somewhere earlier tonight :confused: Can you provide some links?


    Samsung 245T
    Even in its factory settings, the Samsung 245T offers an acceptable image with regard to the sRGB standard... Grey gradients have no colour cast and the monitor only demonstrates a weak point when it comes to blue. Users without calibration devices can easily live with an average deltaE of 4,4. The SyncMaster 245T can be calibrated well to sRGB and even achieves the precise colour temperature of 6500K... However, the reproduction of the primary and complementary colours deteriorates in favour of improved grey gradient reproduction. Even if the colour tone can still be adjusted individually using 6-axis colour setting, the factory settings offer the best image for sRGB.
    http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-samsung-245t-part10.html
    http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-samsung-245t-part11.html

    Note: Today I "test drove" a display model of the Samsung 275T+ and found the viewing angle, color consistency & accuracy quite sufficient for my needs -- seemed a little bit saturated, a bit high in the contrast, but definitely workable. However, I found graphics slightly fuzzy/pixelated, which I attribute to the poor dot pitch (0.3-ish mm). I suspect the 245T at a 0.27mm dot pitch will satisfy me, though I have yet to find a display model to confirm this.


    HP LP2475w
    Bad default settings... Useless sRGB preset... Bad looking fonts... Oversaturated colors by default and much worse, it was impossible to setup the LP2475w to display images in sRGB with accurate colors. It looks like you can make the LP2475w look good in sRGB, but not accurate... Also, banding was evident in gradient test images in sRGB. Dirty white. Well, all LCDs... suffer from it to some extent, but it was a bit more annoying in the LP2475w. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12610171


    Apple Cinema 23" & NEC 2490WUXi
    Though I considered the Apple Cinema 23" as well as the NEC 2490, both are unfortunately out of my employer's budget of CAD$600-800, which is approx US$520-700.


    Nec 2190UXi
    If possible, I prefer 22-24" 1920x1200. Must at least be widescreen.
     
  5. Caine Thanatos

    Caine Thanatos n00b

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    About the HP LP2475w (I am interested in this one too). I have read that the presets are (very) bad, so you need to calibrate it. Oversaturated colors are related to that (I think). "Bad looking fonts" ... that is caused by the cleartype option, so turn it off, and you will see that the text quality improves, on the banding I have to read a bit more. but I think it is still an interesting monitor and not as bad as some people say
     
  6. Biges

    Biges [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, if you can live with PVA/MVA gamma shift, you can use for example HP LP2465. If you can still get one :) Or just get 245T.
    Btw, be slightly cautious about prad.de reviews, I think they are more likely to give positive reviews to some brands. You know - PR :)
    I'd even consider Nec 2190UXi (or Nec 2090UXi) plus a second monitor for storing various not colour critical windows :)
     
  7. debaaszelluf

    debaaszelluf n00b

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    I'm also in the market for an srgb monitor.

    I'm doubting between the following monitors:

    Eizo s2431w €699
    Because eizo = quality and you get an 5 year warranty.

    BenQ FP241 €430
    Because it's so damn cheap...

    Right now I'm more interested in the Eizo, because the monitor doesn't seem to have any disadvantages except for the price.
     
  8. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    Thanks for that info! :)

    Yup, but it didn't bother me when I checked out the Samsung 275T+, so will prob be ok for me for the 245T as well.

    Well, the review went in more depth than what I quoted, and stated that turning cleartype off (or was it on?) dramatically improved the fonts, but they were still not that great. I have experience with this on various monitors and want to stay as far away as possible from this issue.
     
  9. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    Hmmm, Eizo s2431w? Aaaargh, another monitor to add to my list to further confuse my decision. :confused:

    Edit: Oh, oops, its out of my price range anyway. debaaszelluf, although you can afford the Eizo, have you considered the NEC 2490WUXi? I've done a lot research, and this name pops up again and again as the ideal sRGB monitor, THE favorite of web designers. Wish I could get one. :(
     
  10. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    No offense intended to those who have contributed their suggestions, but are any of the recommendations so far coming from professional web designers who work solely in sRGB? It would be good if I could find people who actually purchased one of these LCD monitors specifically for sRGB purposes.
     
  11. Sanfam

    Sanfam Limp Gawd

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    I purchased a Dell 2408WFP a few days back with the intention of both designing for sRGB and general use. Regrettably, the gamut on this display is so wide that it simply makes casual use in non-profiled applications unbearable. Reds and greens are both severely blown out (as one would suspect). On the upside, profile-enabled environments are fantastic. Color reproduction is as it should be and everything seems fine within that little sphere of soundness.


    With regard to budgetary constraints, a Dell 2408WFP is a relatively sound option if you are going to be working in profiled environments. If not...I'm a bit short on options (came here to find one)


    Where I stand...
    At the moment, I'm likely to return the 2408WFP and attempt to pick up something better suited to my needs. I was originally sold on it without fully understanding the impact wide-gamma would make on the the system as a whole. Now I know. :p I'm somewhat torn between whether I wish to stay in the wide-gamut environment, limiting myself to applications that can utilize ICM profiles where possible and ignoring the side-effects of windows itself not being color managed, or leaving it for a display that's better suited to sRGB use. The key point for me is the inability to properly enjoy certain aspects of general use and casual gaming due to the near-neon highlights and oversaturated tones in applications that do not support color management. At the same time, a TN panel might not meet the levels of color accuracy even within the sRGB color space, nor would it offer black levels as deep or viewing angles as wide as the 2408's PVA. On top of this, locating an affordable/modern 8-Bit 24" TN has been difficult. I'll likely fork this into another thread at some point.
     
  12. Benny

    Benny Gawd

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    I'd like to add that review quality also greatly depends on the reviewer, for example while one of them measured input lag, the other one gave laggy monitors the approval "can't feel any"..
     
  13. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    Personally, I won't be using profiled environments, so I need a monitor with ideal sRGB.

    You will probably be interested in a discussion occurring in the TFT Central forums: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224077042
    I encourage you to sign up if you haven't already, but if you don't want to, let me know and I'll post relevant bits of the conversation here... albeit at risk of annoying [H]ard|Forum readers. :p
     
  14. Fia24

    Fia24 n00b

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    Due to some feedback in other forums, I believe I may have not have clearly outlined nor understood my own requirements. :confused:


    REQUIREMENTS

    To reiterate, my work involves:
    • website design (Photoshop - web images only)
    • with basic Flash banners & slideshows
    • and minor video editing for 1-3min clips (low quality/web video only)

    Re. color accuracy: I don't need absolutely perfect sRGB color accuracy. I need to avoid wide gamut, sticking with standard backlit 72% NTSC. Minimally, red RGB#990000 should be some shade of rich red or burgundy rather than blindingly neon. Gray RGB#DAD8D3 should be some shade of gray, not pink. Likewise, white should not be pink. RGB#3A322C should be rich chocolate brown, not solid black. Black text should be black, not with a reddish or greenish hue. I don't know how much of these negative experiences have to do with calibration vs. too high contrast ratios vs. just all-round crappy monitors? Also, not sure how this info re. color accuracy leeway might change monitor recommendations for me?

    More importantly though, I demand the following out of my monitor:
    • color consistency from top to bottom & corner to corner
    • wide viewing angle
    • good dot pitch
    • in general, crisp text
    • in general, crisp images

    I presume that a TN panel will not be good enough. I need one with decent sRGB simulation, or even better, just stay away from wide gamut monitors altogether. Standard backlit unit - 72% NTSC - will be best for me.

    I've worked with low end monitors where there seemed to be no correct viewing angle - when I got an angle with correct color in one spot, then colors were always completely wrong on some other part of the screen. :S


    BENQ FP241W

    However, at home, I have an old BenQ FP757. This may be a TN panel? Nevertheless, I was pleasantly surprised that it meets all my requirements in the bulleted list above, except that I need a 22-24" widescreen. Hence, the BenQ FP241W may be exactly what I'm looking for? Satisfactory color and 72% NTSC (unlike the Samsung 245T). I've been reading through the lengthy HardForum thread on this monitor, haven't got through all 256 pages, but I'm concerned about the "blackout" issue. Besides that, nothing beats a visual test drive, but I can't find a local store with a display model nor full refund policy (restocking fees), so I would want to be very confident about the purchase.


    SAMSUNG 245T

    This review concerns me.
    "The SM245T lacks any sRGB simulation mode, like we have seen on some other monitors offering extended colour gamuts (e.g. Dell 2408WFP). This can be useful for those wanting to work with smaller colour spaces where they do not have the high gamut content to match the monitors output. The screen does offer quite a few colour adjustments as we discussed in the intro section of this review. One of those is the 'Color Innovation' setting. The default setting is 'Custom', but switching to 'Normal' simulates a smaller gamut to a degree. I tested the screen with the LaCie probe to see how close it was to the sRGB space, and the results are shown above. The monitors gamut is slightly reduced from the 97% NTSC coverage, but not enough to simulate the sRGB space."
    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/samsung_245t.htm

    However, as I mentioned, upon brief test drive of a Samsung 275T+ display model at a store, it only failed for me in the last area (images were a bit fuzzy) and I'm sure this was due to the 0.303mm dot pitch, but the 245T has 0.27mm. In that case, if I may reiterate, do you think the Samsung 245T will be satisfactory then? I have an opportunity to pick up an open box model with full refund (no restocking fee) option within 7 days. Not sure how I feel about open box, but can't hurt to try. The BenQ might be better suited to me but I'm leaning towards the Samsung just for this reason...


    Aaaaah! Hope I haven't repeated myself too much. Reading & posting in too many forums in my quest for this...
     
  15. Biges

    Biges [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes, that's right. Their reviews vary quite a lot with different reviewers. And I think this is more strongly lately.
     
  16. debaaszelluf

    debaaszelluf n00b

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    Yes, but in the Netherlands it isn't available.
    After a lot of research i found out that the Eizo was the second best monitor after the 2490WuXi. My next choice after the Eizo would be the NEC 2470WNX. I guess this monitor would be an excellent choice for you (though I really don't like the design of it).
     
  17. Postmodum

    Postmodum Limp Gawd

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    Hi there,

    well, just gonna give you my 2 cents :)

    I have a NEC 2470WNX. It's a very good monitor but i'm on the market for something a little better... or at least, that can fill out the gaps in some spots that i find bad in this WNX.

    Ok, first things first.

    The monitor displays a very crisp and vivid image. Although, it's a pain in the ass to calibrate the freaking monitor to show the grays as it should.

    Gradients between light grays are pain because you barely can see it. Maybe i just can't mix and match the calibration settings ... but i've been trying for almost a year now :) ( and no... it's not the contrast and lum. levels :p )

    So, this is my main problem with the monitor ... Some gradients show some signs of banding... I don't know about you but this really pisses me off. I'm a GUI designer so, creating interface elements with light gradients ... sometimes can be a hard task :D

    Where do i notice this banding? It's basically in the gray levels...


    I'm trying to find the sweet pot of the displays ...

    I've narrowed the choice to

    - NEC 2690 WUXi2
    - HP LP2475w
    - Apple Led Cinema Display 24"
    -
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  18. Biges

    Biges [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, 2470 has S-PVA panel and does not have internal LUT, so it is no wonder it has problems with greys.

    It seems you want a monitor with wider gamut, is it so? Or is there a reson you do not consider also NEC 2490?

    I have NEC 2690 and it is a very good monitor, although 2690-2 does not have the A-TW polarizer, which I believe decreases 2690-2's practical value.

    LP2475w is great for its price.
     
  19. Postmodum

    Postmodum Limp Gawd

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    Biges, hello there :)

    I'm, at this moment, to get the nec or the hp... But do you think the first version is better than the second 2690?

    I really don't know about the HP ... not very ... how can i say ... i'm not sure...
     
  20. Biges

    Biges [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hi! :)

    The first version has the filter, but the second has lower minimum and maximum brightness and thus higher maximum contrast, which should look better. And it is cheaper :) Personally I would not be afraid of the newer version.

    But as always, it is the best thing to actually try the monitor.
     
  21. Postmodum

    Postmodum Limp Gawd

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    Thank you for the answers. And, sorry for using this topic for my questions.

    One more thing, did you ever worked with a LP2475w ?
     
  22. Biges

    Biges [H]ard|Gawd

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    Eh, never got a chance so far. A friend of mine said it is quite good. If you are lucky to get a uniform panel.

    Of course, there is the problem with wide-gaumut, which I can image becaue my 2690 is also a wide-gamut monitor, although thanks to its LUT it has special sRGB emulation mode.

    This means that for example in games 2475 would show over-saturated colours (red, green). But maybe Vista has a better colour management than XP? But I doubt it is much better :)