Spectrum Cable Allegedly Intentionally Throttled Online Games to Extort Payments

cageymaru

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Messages
20,993
Earlier we ran an article on how New York State was kicking Spectrum cable out of the region for failures to serve New Yorkers. Today we learned that Spectrum was accused of using dirty tactics to extort cash payments from backbone operators, streaming service providers such as Netflix and online gaming companies like Riot Games which operates the League of Legends game. After Riot Games allegedly paid the extortion payment to Spectrum for a better connection, League of Legends players were able to reliably connect to the gaming service again. Read the complaint here. Net Neutrality rules... Hmm...

331. Throughout the Relevant Period, Spectrum-TWC relentlessly touted consistently fast Internet speeds and reliable access to online content to solicit and retain subscribers. However, in reality, Spectrum-TWC knowingly failed to deliver on such promises.
 

novaflare

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
166
See im on spectrum and other than the common battle of getting old drops replaced not really had no serious issues. At one point i had some trouble with billing. That was a lost in the shuffle money order that was sent to the wrong address as they had 2 addresses listed on the bill one was twcs office that at the time was still open the other was their offices. I am wondering if these issues like this are middle management playing games that spectrum as a whole does not know about. Maybe some shady district people who use to be twc employees and are now spectrum ones?

If this was spectrum as a whole why are the incidents not wide spread through out spectrums foot print? Some issues come from spectrum not realizing how bit a damn mess they were getting from twc and the others like my billing issue that ended up with me double paying a bill and waiting for the money order to be found cashed and applied and it was. That is still their fault how ever
 

jardows

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
2,148
From the complaint:
From at least January 1, 2012 to the present (the “Relevant Period”), Spectrum-TWC conducted a systematic scheme to defraud and mislead subscribers to its Internet service by promising to deliver Internet service that it knew it could not and would not deliver. As described below, this scheme had two separate components: first, Spectrum-TWC promised Internet speeds that it knew it could not deliver to subscribers; second, Spectrum-TWC promised reliable access to online content
1 that it knew it couldnot deliver to subscribers.
PLEASE Note: This happened during the period that the so called "net neutrality" was "in force." So before anyone wants to make this an anti-Ajit Pai argument, realize that the rules reversed by the FCC under his watch were in effect during this alleged abuse by Spectrum.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,949
See im on spectrum and other than the common battle of getting old drops replaced not really had no serious issues. At one point i had some trouble with billing. That was a lost in the shuffle money order that was sent to the wrong address as they had 2 addresses listed on the bill one was twcs office that at the time was still open the other was their offices. I am wondering if these issues like this are middle management playing games that spectrum as a whole does not know about. Maybe some shady district people who use to be twc employees and are now spectrum ones?

If this was spectrum as a whole why are the incidents not wide spread through out spectrums foot print? Some issues come from spectrum not realizing how bit a damn mess they were getting from twc and the others like my billing issue that ended up with me double paying a bill and waiting for the money order to be found cashed and applied and it was. That is still their fault how ever
You should go back and start reading at page 67 of the complaint. What you are commenting on here has ZERO to do with the story.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,949
From the complaint:

PLEASE Note: This happened during the period that the so called "net neutrality" was "in force." So before anyone wants to make this an anti-Ajit Pai argument, realize that the rules reversed by the FCC under his watch were in effect during this alleged abuse by Spectrum.
Yep, this was all during Net Neutrality.....2014.
 

novaflare

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
166
From the complaint:

PLEASE Note: This happened during the period that the so called "net neutrality" was "in force." So before anyone wants to make this an anti-Ajit Pai argument, realize that the rules reversed by the FCC under his watch were in effect during this alleged abuse by Spectrum.
Also note that like all of these "free to play" mega games league is a huge money grab. Look at the crypto currency miner that was on steam early versions of candy crush that would send spam txts out from phones that had it installed and many other examples of such shady operations. It would not come as much of a shock to find out that this company is full of crap and trying to make up a excuse for server dow time or a lawsuit filing against a mega corp for the purpose of a massive money grab. With spectrums obvious serious foul ups they would be a prime target for such a move.
 

Dougie

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
153
Is there 2 people is this thread currently defending spectrum, or am I hallucinating?


Are you guys trying to make an argument against net neutrality, just because Spectrum broke those rules? To me it would seem, that means we need NN.
 

travisty

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
815
Is there 2 people is this thread currently defending spectrum, or am I hallucinating?


Are you guys trying to make an argument against net neutrality, just because Spectrum broke those rules? To me it would seem, that means we need NN.

TY I'm glad i'm not the only one totally confused...

Say in a world where murder was recently outlawed then that law was revoked. Then someone was found murdered during the time that murder was outlawed. People would say, "It's a good thing we revoked the law that murder was a crime because it still happened while it was outlawed."

The key to having the law/regulation in the first place is to make sure there are guidelines to hold the accused against and also guidelines to follow for punishment in the case the accused is found guilty.

In this case I hope each customer of Spectrum has the ability to sue TWC/Spectrum for false advertising and such. Then on the government side, another set of punishments which, God willing, destroys TWC


P.S. I know God doesn't exist so TWC will be fine :p
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
633
Is there 2 people is this thread currently defending spectrum, or am I hallucinating?


Are you guys trying to make an argument against net neutrality, just because Spectrum broke those rules? To me it would seem, that means we need NN.
I wouldn't call it "Defending" Spectrum... I see it as pointing out the fact that companies will do whatever the hell they want, and the fact that there is no consequences for their actions to date. The court filing was done in 2017, and we still have no outcome as to punishments.
 

MrTryfe

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
435
From the complaint:

PLEASE Note: This happened during the period that the so called "net neutrality" was "in force." So before anyone wants to make this an anti-Ajit Pai argument, realize that the rules reversed by the FCC under his watch were in effect during this alleged abuse by Spectrum.

That's a red herring if I ever saw one.
 

Hatriot

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
157
Is there 2 people is this thread currently defending spectrum, or am I hallucinating?


Are you guys trying to make an argument against net neutrality, just because Spectrum broke those rules? To me it would seem, that means we need NN.

Are you a child? No the adults are looking at the actual details with no emotion unlike internet crack addicts. This is a perfect example of why net neutrality is just another left wing scam. If you had taken the time to read through the complaint you will see that this is an example of the government going after a company who failed to deliver on their agreed upon promises based on customer complaints. JUST LIKE THEY WOULD AGAINST ANY OTHER BUSINESS. So the state watchdogs are going after what appears to be a shady company which happens all the time. What is the problem here? My only issue would be how did they jump on this yet the car buying experience is still a sleazy affair after so many decades.
 

B770

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
106
seems fairly cut and dried, they promised to deliver a service and they did not do so. furthermore they knew they could not do so and continued to lie about their ability to do so. it matters not a bit if NN was in effect or not, what they did was straight up fraudulent. It is a crime and they should be punished for it, same as you or I would be punished for committing a crime. top execs jailed as an example to other corporate bullshit.
 

Dekar12

Gawd
Joined
Oct 2, 2003
Messages
745
Is there 2 people is this thread currently defending spectrum, or am I hallucinating?


Are you guys trying to make an argument against net neutrality, just because Spectrum broke those rules? To me it would seem, that means we need NN.

I had TWC and then was switched to Spectrum while at an apartment and now have Spectrum at my house.

Internet wise, I never had any real issues, 5 years at an apartment (residential area) and had maybe 3-4 outages, usually storm based.

My speeds increased for free by 10mb down when Spectrum took over and when I switched to my house my rate was reduced further for Internet and is now faster.

So, at least in my area, Internet has been as good or better then TWC. I can't speak to the terms of TV, but I know they moved to an encrypted signal, so there was some cussing about that by people with a lot of TVs in their houses.
 

travisty

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
815
AKA, just pay MSRP. That's where the really good deals are!

o_O

Oh do you haggle for everything? Are you sure that apple is really worth 50 cents? Probably 48... What about that $300 monitor? Yeah I'm sure the cashier wants to haggle over that, would you push $295?

In the case of the Model 3 it was a reasonable price when compared to other EV options and far exceeded them in distance and performance - the MSRP was very reasonable. The experience was so much better than knowing you're overpaying from the start with the sticker price and all the hidden fees that are applied w/ other cars.
 
Last edited:

Slade

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
2,819
Doesn't it mean now without net neutrality, what spectrum was doing is now legitimate? I mean think about it this way. Murder illegal, they did it anyways, murder law repealed, they can just announce that they plan to do murder and get away with it.

Its not that the concept of net neutrality doesn't work. It's the enforcement of it is what was weak.
 

pcgeekesq

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
1,399
From the complaint:

PLEASE Note: This happened during the period that the so called "net neutrality" was "in force." So before anyone wants to make this an anti-Ajit Pai argument, realize that the rules reversed by the FCC under his watch were in effect during this alleged abuse by Spectrum.
As you say, the problem was not a lack of net.neutrality. The problem was and is a lack of competition, which is primarily caused by governments placing restrictions on who can offer broadband service in the area they control.
This isn't a problem government can solve: it's a problem government has caused.

Hopefully, low-latency satellite broadband will provide the competition that will solve these kinds of problems.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
As a note, this happened during the time in which it was TWC not spectrum. Spectrum is just simply on the end of this lawsuit because they bought TWC. I was living in NY at this time and had TWC and played League of legends so I experienced the throttling first hand. It made the game absolutely unplayable for a significant period of time. Also as mentioned this happened while NN was in effect which is why the the lawsuit holds merit. If this happened now, we would be up the creek and shit out of luck.
 

B770

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
106
NN isnt even in play here, its not the point and has ZERO to do with the whole mess, it has everything to do with false advertising and fraud. if i sell you a car and promise you in writing that it goes 75 MPH so you buy it based on that info and after you get it you find it will only do 50, then i have falsely advertised it, and also knowing that it would never do 75, i have fraudulently deceived you, it is a crime. cars / internet speed / everything that can be sold is held to those rules even second hand stuff IF advertised and promoted in a way that promises and or guarantees anything or any type of result.
 

Elf_Boy

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
2,468
I get the idea that charter is slowing down my path of exile connection.

How would one check?

It could of course be many things yet it will lag when nothing else does.
 

Guarana [BAWLS]

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
1,952
NN isnt even in play here, its not the point and has ZERO to do with the whole mess, it has everything to do with false advertising and fraud. if i sell you a car and promise you in writing that it goes 75 MPH so you buy it based on that info and after you get it you find it will only do 50, then i have falsely advertised it, and also knowing that it would never do 75, i have fraudulently deceived you, it is a crime. cars / internet speed / everything that can be sold is held to those rules even second hand stuff IF advertised and promoted in a way that promises and or guarantees anything or any type of result.
See the post before yours, NN does. Not because the SERVICE was lacking capacity, but because TWC (at the time) was throttling service to select customers.
 

Guarana [BAWLS]

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
1,952
I get the idea that charter is slowing down my path of exile connection.

How would one check?

It could of course be many things yet it will lag when nothing else does.

You could try pinging a server you're connected to, if you know the IP, and see the latency there, vs Pinging other things online and seeing that.

Most of the time it's up to the other company itself to check, because tools going too far beyond that would require special software / connections to the server. (IE: Netflix DOES have a bandwith test online to see how their service runs for a given user / connection.)
 

B770

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
106
in the complaint the first part talked all about the routers that were billed as "x"Mbps, while they knew the routers were incapable of that speed, yet they continued to install them/charge $10 a month anyway. this was/is a hardware issue and the whole basis of my reasoning.
 

B770

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
106
top of page 8....
During the Relevant Period, Spectr
um-TWC leased older-generation
modems to over 900,000 subscribers in New York
State at a fixed f
ee that is currently
$10 per month. The company promised its su
bscribers that these
modems would allow
them to achieve the Internet speeds they
had paid for, and that Spectrum-TWC would
upgrade the modems at no additional charge
as Internet speeds increased. However,
Spectrum-TWC knew that, in practice, these ol
der-generation modems were incapable of
achieving the Internet speeds its subscribers were
led to believe they were paying for.


how does this have ANYTHING to do with NN?
 

cageymaru

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Messages
20,993
in the complaint the first part talked all about the routers that were billed as "x"Mbps, while they knew the routers were incapable of that speed, yet they continued to install them/charge $10 a month anyway. this was/is a hardware issue and the whole basis of my reasoning.

Read this that I linked.
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/summons_and_complaint.pdf

Skip to page 67 of 87. The page numbers are written on the bottom of each page of the complaint pdf.

Be amazed how Spectrum ignored net neutrality laws to allegedly extort money from others.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,949
top of page 8....
During the Relevant Period, Spectr
um-TWC leased older-generation
modems to over 900,000 subscribers in New York
State at a fixed f
ee that is currently
$10 per month. The company promised its su
bscribers that these
modems would allow
them to achieve the Internet speeds they
had paid for, and that Spectrum-TWC would
upgrade the modems at no additional charge
as Internet speeds increased. However,
Spectrum-TWC knew that, in practice, these ol
der-generation modems were incapable of
achieving the Internet speeds its subscribers were
led to believe they were paying for.


how does this have ANYTHING to do with NN?
Keep reading.
 

B770

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
106
seems almost like it should have been 2 seperate lawsuits, one for NN and one for screwing over the people of NY.....
 

jardows

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
2,148
My point is simply, what people thought was net neutrality, wasn't. The behavior of Spectrum here is what the proponents of net neutrality say such laws will prevent, and without those laws, ISP's will engage in this type of behavior. But here we have an example of a company engaging in behavior that net neutrality was supposed to prevent, during the time that "net neutrality" supposedly was in force. Now, to further the thought process, this lawsuit is based on alleged fraud committed by Spectrum, not violation of "net neutrality" laws. This leads me to a couple of conclusions:

1. What was called "Net Neutrality" and repealed by Ajit Pai - resulting in death threats against him - was not true net neutrality.
2. ISP's that have government granted monopolies are never going to act in their customer's best interests.
 

dgingeri

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
2,830
This is kind of how the market is supposed to work. If the provider doesn't give decent service or tries to abuse customers, then they get booted. If the people of New York had proper CHOICE of providers, as a free market would do, then Spectrum would go bankrupt over having no customers. Instead, they get to take off with the money they extorted from others, and continue sapping the public in other areas where they have a government enforced monopoly.
 

pcgeekesq

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
1,399
seems almost like it should have been 2 seperate lawsuits, one for NN and one for screwing over the people of NY.....
IIRC, you only have a right to sue under Federal regulations if Congress created that right in the enabling legislation.
Since Congress never enacted legislation concerning NN, there's no right to sue under it.

Obama's NN may have given him good press in some quarters, but if it had ever gone to court, there's a good chance it would have been thrown out as administrative overreach. Government agencies are supposed to implement legislation passed by Congress, not create their own laws out of thin air.
 

James Robinson

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
292
I dumped Spectrum/TWC because of this.. went with AT&T 1k fiber.. when I had Spectrum they would throttle me on Netflix, my online games, or just general browsing.. Sitting there watching a movie in HD and suddenly it cuts to pixelated SD and stays there. You call and complain and they state their TOS allows them to reduce service speeds during peak usage hours, but REFUSE to state or explain what a 'peak usage hour' actually is, or even when. Trying to hit various news web sites from CNN, Fox, to Reuters, anything.. would get a 'network not found' error for a good 5 minutes before I could connect again and read my morning feeds.

Started getting these odd notices about downloading copy-written content, and was denied access to my ISP until after I 'agreed' to not download copywritten material any more... I hadn't been online in over a week with my computer OFF while I was in California... wtf? Done with that insanity.
 

dgingeri

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
2,830
I dumped Spectrum/TWC because of this.. went with AT&T 1k fiber.. when I had Spectrum they would throttle me on Netflix, my online games, or just general browsing.. Sitting there watching a movie in HD and suddenly it cuts to pixelated SD and stays there. You call and complain and they state their TOS allows them to reduce service speeds during peak usage hours, but REFUSE to state or explain what a 'peak usage hour' actually is, or even when. Trying to hit various news web sites from CNN, Fox, to Reuters, anything.. would get a 'network not found' error for a good 5 minutes before I could connect again and read my morning feeds.

Started getting these odd notices about downloading copy-written content, and was denied access to my ISP until after I 'agreed' to not download copywritten material any more... I hadn't been online in over a week with my computer OFF while I was in California... wtf? Done with that insanity.
Someone probably hacked your wireless through WPS and was sharing out stuff using your connection. I had the same problem, and even got warned by Comcast 3 times, until I got a small business AP without WPS. It was the only way I could keep the bastard out.
 

kamxam

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
Messages
1,867
Loot crates for businesses?
That would be funny if it wasn't likely to happen someday. Can imagine paying a company for a loot crate that gives you a real slim chance of lifetime free internet or cable or a service (Legendary crate), Three quarters price reduction for a few years or more (Epic), Half price for a year (Rare), or just myriad discounts (Common).
I bet someone somewhere has thought of it and wishes they could do it..:sour:
 

Darunion

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
4,412
Saying NN was useless in this case doesnt make sense.

That would equate to why make murder illegal since people do it anyways.

If found that they were in fact breaching regulation then disciplinary measures will be taken. Likely a fine.

Laws prevent nothing, they only allow punishment when broken. The idea is the fear of punishment is why people won't break them.
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
15,192
From the complaint:

PLEASE Note: This happened during the period that the so called "net neutrality" was "in force." So before anyone wants to make this an anti-Ajit Pai argument, realize that the rules reversed by the FCC under his watch were in effect during this alleged abuse by Spectrum.
So that means Spectrum could be legally held responsible for this? Where as if it were to happen now it's perfectly legal?
 

Elf_Boy

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
2,468
You could try pinging a server you're connected to, if you know the IP, and see the latency there, vs Pinging other things online and seeing that.

Most of the time it's up to the other company itself to check, because tools going too far beyond that would require special software / connections to the server. (IE: Netflix DOES have a bandwith test online to see how their service runs for a given user / connection.)

POE does have in game tools for latency, frame time and various things.

I will see the latency start to spike like every second or 1/2 second it spikes through the roof.
 

Master_shake_

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
17,795
So that means Spectrum could be legally held responsible for this? Where as if it were to happen now it's perfectly legal?

people would have to complain to the FCC then pay them to look at it then get told it's not under their jurisdiction anymore and have to go to the FTC.
 
Top