Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium HD, why use it?

[NamelessPFG]

I see. But outputting CMSS3D Headphone signal from a XFi card through optical to an external DAC is still good, right?

Should be. I got it working with my X-Fi Titanium HD, at least. "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output" checkbox.

However, I only really used it to run a Dolby Headphone comparison with my JVC/Victor SU-DH1, and the audio quality on that thing is one hell of a downgrade from the Titanium HD, as you'd expect of a small device powered by a pair of AAs. I don't feel like spending loads on an S/PDIF DAC at the moment.

If I had one of the non-HD Titanium models, though, I'd probably consider it since it'd be easier to nab a DAC/amp that's a legitimate upgrade and not far off the cliff of diminishing returns.

 

[christpunchers]

Old thread: now I have a RME ADI-2 DAC with a HD800S. Sounds great.

Tried playing with CMSS3D again: it sounds like I’m inside a tin can. Headphone mode, 2.1 mode, 5.1, 7.1 all sound better without CMSS3D, crystal clear. But technically speaking CMSS3D should be better for games.

Is there something I’m doing wrong? Is there any way to get better SQ in CMSS3D in headphone mode? (I assume 2.1 CMSS3D doesn’t really work since you cannot “desynchronize” the card’s speaker settings and windows settings in W7 and after).

 

[GotNoRice]

Tried playing with CMSS3D again: it sounds like I’m inside a tin can. Headphone mode, 2.1 mode, 5.1, 7.1 all sound better without CMSS3D, crystal clear. But technically speaking CMSS3D should be better for games.

Is there something I’m doing wrong? Is there any way to get better SQ in CMSS3D in headphone mode? (I assume 2.1 CMSS3D doesn’t really work since you cannot “desynchronize” the card’s speaker settings and windows settings in W7 and after).

What you are hearing ("inside a tin can") is the reverb, and it's part of what gives your ears the positioning info that they need. I wouldn't use CMSS-3D if you are just listening to music, but for me it's a dramatic improvement in movies and in games.

Try this, a Dolby 7.1 test file:
http://gotnorice.com/dolby-digital-plus-channel-check-lossless.mkv

I leave mine set to "Headphones", along with "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output". I have optical running from my X-Fi into an external DAC, which feeds analog out into my headphone amp.

Using the file I linked above, the difference with CMSS-3D enabled vs disabled is quite dramatic. With CMSS-3D enabled, the sounds actually sound like they are coming from where they are supposed to be coming from. With CMSS-3D disabled, everything sounds like it's either coming from the left, right, or center, with almost no depth or actual positioning. For example, with CMSS-3D disabled, Front right, side right, and rear right all sound practically the same. With CMSS-3D enabled it sounds correct and I gain the ability to tell if something is in front of me or behind me.

Are your results different?

 

[christpunchers]

What you are hearing ("inside a tin can") is the reverb, and it's part of what gives your ears the positioning info that they need. I wouldn't use CMSS-3D if you are just listening to music, but for me it's a dramatic improvement in movies and in games.

Try this, a Dolby 7.1 test file:
http://gotnorice.com/dolby-digital-plus-channel-check-lossless.mkv

I leave mine set to "Headphones", along with "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output". I have optical running from my X-Fi into an external DAC, which feeds analog out into my headphone amp.

Using the file I linked above, the difference with CMSS-3D enabled vs disabled is quite dramatic. With CMSS-3D enabled, the sounds actually sound like they are coming from where they are supposed to be coming from. With CMSS-3D disabled, everything sounds like it's either coming from the left, right, or center, with almost no depth or actual positioning. For example, with CMSS-3D disabled, Front right, side right, and rear right all sound practically the same. With CMSS-3D enabled it sounds correct and I gain the ability to tell if something is in front of me or behind me.

Are your results different?

I’ll give it a shot later. But what about the SQ being more muffled and weird in CMSS3D + headphone mode (or even in 2.1 mode)? Is there anything we can do to tweak that?

 

[GotNoRice]

I’ll give it a shot later. But what about the SQ being more muffled and weird in CMSS3D + headphone mode (or even in 2.1 mode)? Is there anything we can do to tweak that?

I don't really have much of a problem with that. I don't usually use it with music because it changes the soundstage, makes it a bit more narrow, which I don't really consider a good thing when I'm just listening to 2-channel music. I don't really notice any issue in games or movies, maybe because I listen to them in a different way compared to music.

Listening in a room with actual 7.1 speakers won't sound the same as listening using headphones. CMSS-3D is trying to emulate the former. Some of the effects result in better positioning, but also what could be considered a loss in terms of absolute fidelity. Preference certainly comes into play. Exactly what content are you listening to where it's a problem?

 

[christpunchers]

I don't really have much of a problem with that. I don't usually use it with music because it changes the soundstage, makes it a bit more narrow, which I don't really consider a good thing when I'm just listening to 2-channel music. I don't really notice any issue in games or movies, maybe because I listen to them in a different way compared to music.

Listening in a room with actual 7.1 speakers won't sound the same as listening using headphones. CMSS-3D is trying to emulate the former. Some of the effects result in better positioning, but also what could be considered a loss in terms of absolute fidelity. Preference certainly comes into play. Exactly what content are you listening to where it's a problem?

It’s only a problem in games. I of course don’t use CMSS3D outside of games. And that’s when the muffled, tin can sounding issue comes into play. Everything just sounds clearer and crisp without CMSS3D. But the trade off is less positional accuracy.

For music, movies, just general media I always use Audio Creation mode, no issues.

 

[christpunchers]

When you set your speakers to HP mode in Creative’s control panel, what do you see your windows speakers mode to be?

 

[GotNoRice]

When you set your speakers to HP mode in Creative’s control panel, what do you see your windows speakers mode to be?

For me it's setup in the Windows sound control panel as "7.1 Surround".

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Tried playing with CMSS3D again: it sounds like I’m inside a tin can.

I would hesitate to refer to the HD800S as sounding like a 'tin can', but in the realm of headphones, that's an unflattering but still approximate description.

If you're applying processing that reduces bass even more, and tries to make the sound come across as even more open, then it's quite possible with the HD800S that that's a step or two too far.

Your headphones have already fixed the problems that the processing is trying to address

 

[christpunchers]

I would hesitate to refer to the HD800S as sounding like a 'tin can', but in the realm of headphones, that's an unflattering but still approximate description.

If you're applying processing that reduces bass even more, and tries to make the sound come across as even more open, then it's quite possible with the HD800S that that's a step or two too far.

Your headphones have already fixed the problems that the processing is trying to address

They sound like a tin can when I have CMSS3D on, especially in headphone mode.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

They sound like a tin can when I have CMSS3D on, especially in headphone mode.

The HD800S are the market leading example of their type. If their rare, refined presentation is what you're after, I find it difficult to consider further processing.

Creative's software is designed to make cans that are a much closer approximation of ass sound less like... ass. I think that it works, but your HD800S are about as far as one can get from those products

 

[OFaceSIG]

I've always read that you set creative panel to HP and windows to the widest sound stage you can.

 

[christpunchers]

The HD800S are the market leading example of their type. If their rare, refined presentation is what you're after, I find it difficult to consider further processing.

Creative's software is designed to make cans that are a much closer approximation of ass sound less like... ass. I think that it works, but your HD800S are about as far as one can get from those products

Yeah I’d imagine when they designed these cards the intended user would be at most using something like the HD600 or at that level of equipment. They never intended for their cards to be paired with higher end gear. Still, there are clear benefits when using CMSS3D in headphone and 2.1 mode. Just that I don’t think we are given a deeper level of control to really tweak things to our liking. At times I’ve found software solutions like DSOAL provide me more control even though it’s supposed to be inferior to actual hardware processing.

Anyways, I’ve been playing around with Stalker SOC. I’ve carefully tested the EAX mod where you place a bunch of effects files into the levels folder (you can find all the links by simply watching a Yotube video on “stalker EAX”).

EAX doesn’t seem to work using just OpenAL or Alchemy in Stalker. You must use the mod.

And now that I got it working properly with the mod (amazing reverb, though a bit artificial as it feels a bit overly done), CMSS3D headphones (windows on 7.1 using Forte) sounds better, more tolerable.

The individual sound effects still have better SQ when not using CMSS3D but the trade off is better 3D positioning where I can somewhat pinpoint where all the effects are coming from (less “stereo” sounding).

 

[christpunchers]

I've always read that you set creative panel to HP and windows to the widest sound stage you can.

Yes it makes sense. Creative left out the “desynchronize” button where in windows XP you could set the Creative panel on 2.1 or Headphone mode, while keeping windows on 5.1 or 7.1. In Vista and after you’d need to put windows CP on 5.1/7.1 then go into Creative panel and select headphone. Presumably mixing all the 5.1/7.1 signals into headphone signals. Again it’s not all very well documented. Creative kind of suck with their software side of things

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Yes it makes sense. Creative left out the “desynchronize” button where in windows XP you could set the Creative panel on 2.1 or Headphone mode, while keeping windows on 5.1 or 7.1. In Vista and after you’d need to put windows CP on 5.1/7.1 then go into Creative panel and select headphone. Presumably mixing all the 5.1/7.1 signals into headphone signals. Again it’s not all very well documented. Creative kind of suck with their software side of things

Microsoft yanked out the hardware support with Vista; that likely broke most of what Creative was doing.

They never intended for their cards to be paired with higher end gear.

To be fair, the HD800-series are pretty unique, beyond just being highly-detailed headphones. Most aim for a more balanced presentation, and it's hard to imagine Creative targeting something substantially different than your average 'gamer' sound signature.

Which is why I wondered about the reasoning for pairing your HD800S with CMSS3D above, but it does seem like you've found something that you like!

 

[christpunchers]

Microsoft yanked out the hardware support with Vista; that likely broke most of what Creative was doing.


To be fair, the HD800-series are pretty unique, beyond just being highly-detailed headphones. Most aim for a more balanced presentation, and it's hard to imagine Creative targeting something substantially different than your average 'gamer' sound signature.

Which is why I wondered about the reasoning for pairing your HD800S with CMSS3D above, but it does seem like you've found something that you like!

Yes but without CMSS3D some of the 3D cues are missing. Without it it still sounds good, 3D enough

 

[OFaceSIG]

Yes it makes sense. Creative left out the “desynchronize” button where in windows XP you could set the Creative panel on 2.1 or Headphone mode, while keeping windows on 5.1 or 7.1. In Vista and after you’d need to put windows CP on 5.1/7.1 then go into Creative panel and select headphone. Presumably mixing all the 5.1/7.1 signals into headphone signals. Again it’s not all very well documented. Creative kind of suck with their software side of things

You are correct. It's horribly documented.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

As an ASRock Z370 Taichi user I'd probably stick with onboard, especially liking ASRock's onboard amps (have to use the frontpanel jacks as only those are amped and have noticeably better sound/power). I even have a ZxR and Essence STX II sitting on the shelf as the onboard provides better sound quality to my ears / pair of headphones. Should be noted every headphone have their own signature, sometimes another source's may work better with another pair. For me the ASRock Realtek onboard solution has especially the best quality bass output with very punchy yet strong bass (ZxR it sounds somewhat bloated and Essence STX II again it's somewhat less punchy/powerful) and the highs have nice detail, it's a pretty analytical sound but works great with my slightly bit warm headphones. But there's also another reason, somehow the Realtek onboard provides a very nice soundstage when using 5.1 speakers that I haven't been able to reproduce with the ASUS or Creative cards, also music/stereo playback gets affected and sounds more "out-of-your-head" sorta but in a natural way. Games also tends to have good positioning with it that you don't want these fancy CMSS3D, SBX Surround, Dolby Headphone etc. which comes with a huge sound quality hit and sounds less natural.

 

[R-cyph]

This is what I have set up:

View attachment 53123

This setup results in no audio being played through SPDIF.

Thanks for this thread! I've been using an audioengine D1 headphone amplifier / Senn HD6xx with this setup for a few days now. I literally looked over my shoulder a few times thinking something was behind me while gaming. It's shocking how much better it is than the in-game 'headphone' audio output or using Dolby or DTS spatial sound software. If I had known my x-fi Titanium was capable of this, I'd have started using it years ago.