Sound Blaster Z vs. ZXR

S

Syphon Filter

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Guys,

I'm looking for a little advice about these two cards.

I have a bog-standard Z (retail version) on order for £58 (only £10 more than the OEM so I figured why not).

I will be using this with a set of BeyerDynamic DT880 250 Ohm headphones.

However, I have recently noted that the Z (and ZX) do not have selectable gain settings. Only the ZXR does. I am hoping this is not an issue as I believe the gain options are just Low (32-300Ohm) and High (600Ohm) but I am doubting my choice somewhat.

The price difference between the Z and the ZXR is over £100 but I'd rather buy right first time rather than deal with issues/returns. I would not really be using the extra features of the ZXR such as the add-on card and the control module, these would just collect dust. The only thing about the ZXR that is attractive are the different (improved?) DAC and amp but £100 seems a little for that (to me).

Can anyone give me some real-world experiences of using the standard Z card with a decent set of cans?

What do you guys think, stick with the standard Z (saving a few quid) or sack it off and go with the ZXR?
 
You would get the most bang for the buck by adding an external amp. That will solve the major issue with sound cards. The Z plus an entry level amp should cost less than the ZxR. Not sure what amps are around in the UK but the Schitt brand is right decent.
 
You NEED an amp for 250 ohms. The Zx i have couldnt drive my DT990 250ohms to save its life. Fiio amp fixed that instantly.
 
In all seriousness, define "couldn't drive"???

The SB-Z/ZX have amps that are marketed as good for 600 Ohm headphones.

I'm currently using my DT880 250 Ohm with my onboard audio (RealTek based with headphone amp) and it's not exactly LOUD but it's enough for me, I don't need to make my ears bleed...Also, the Z and ZX are identical (other than the ACM) so if your experience is indicative then I am SOL.

I think what I will do is see how I find the headphones with the SB-Z. If I feel it's lacking or whatever then I think I will either return the SB-Z for a ZXR or get the Fiio E09K (I will probably go for the Fiio).

Floor is the still open for comment though so any and all suggestions welcome...
 
You mistake loudness for power.

An amp not only provides more volume, it also provides a blacker sound stage and it has more control over the drivers. Thus, you gain detail and a more natural, less sharp sound than the sound card or especially on board.
 
headphone amps do much more than just adding higher volume, they improve sound quality.
 
Syphon Filter said:
In all seriousness, define "couldn't drive"???

The SB-Z/ZX have amps that are marketed as good for 600 Ohm headphones.

I'm currently using my DT880 250 Ohm with my onboard audio (RealTek based with headphone amp) and it's not exactly LOUD but it's enough for me, I don't need to make my ears bleed...Also, the Z and ZX are identical (other than the ACM) so if your experience is indicative then I am SOL.

I think what I will do is see how I find the headphones with the SB-Z. If I feel it's lacking or whatever then I think I will either return the SB-Z for a ZXR or get the Fiio E09K (I will probably go for the Fiio).

Floor is the still open for comment though so any and all suggestions welcome...
Click to expand...
Read this topic of mine

FInally got my DT990s and Zx and im a bit unimpressed :(

And this topic goes over what driving means.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/659672/what-does-it-mean-to-drive-a-headphone

They might say 600ohm, but they arent driving them properly.

Without the amp my 990s didnt have any bass and the volume was weak.

With the amp it instantly put a smile on my face and the songs came to life and the headphones were thumping.

You need an amp or lower ohm headphones.
 
Syphon Filter said:
In all seriousness, define "couldn't drive"???

The SB-Z/ZX have amps that are marketed as good for 600 Ohm headphones.

I'm currently using my DT880 250 Ohm with my onboard audio (RealTek based with headphone amp) and it's not exactly LOUD but it's enough for me, I don't need to make my ears bleed...Also, the Z and ZX are identical (other than the ACM) so if your experience is indicative then I am SOL.

I think what I will do is see how I find the headphones with the SB-Z. If I feel it's lacking or whatever then I think I will either return the SB-Z for a ZXR or get the Fiio E09K (I will probably go for the Fiio).

Floor is the still open for comment though so any and all suggestions welcome...
Click to expand...


I have DT880s @ 600ohm and my zxr has no issues driving these. Infact I have the volume on the desktop control knob only set at 7 o'clock because it's quite loud in BF4 at 8, 9 or 10 o'clock.
 
why would you be looking at SBZ for headphones? better if your sent Asus Essence STX.

the reason i have SBZ is only for surround sound as the Phoebus is just too unstable (returned) which the STX does not offer and nor do any good external DACs
 
I'm not sure what you're getting at???

The SBZ is more than adequate for headphones and does have an amp built in. It's also got decent positional audio.

The other thing is, it's a fraction of the price of the STX.
 
Syphon Filter said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at???

The SBZ is more than adequate for headphones and does have an amp built in. It's also got decent positional audio.

The other thing is, it's a fraction of the price of the STX.
Click to expand...

didnt mention about the amp being adequate or not for headphones. In Aus, the prices are not that far off from each other. and STX has much better sound quality. Do you actually really care about positional audio through head phones? when stereo headphones simulate surround sound.
 
Yes I do care about positional audio because you need headphones for virtual surround/binaural audio. I use the sound-card for gaming and, from everything I have read, the SBZ is better for this than the STX. It is also a third of the price.

I did a lot of reading around this and the SB-Z is recommended by many people including over at Head-Fi and various other audio forums as well as audio sub-fora here and other OCing websites.

While there may be measurable differences in the noise floor and THD etc. I don't believe they will add up to a £100 worth of difference between the SB-Z and the STX so I don't see the point. It's not like I am using a set of STAX headphones or anything.

Would you be happier if I had bought the ZXR or is only the STX enough for you? You're using a Sound Blaster Z yourself according to your sig so I really don't know why you're questioning this...
 
BlackThought said:
You NEED an amp for 250 ohms. The Zx i have couldnt drive my DT990 250ohms to save its life. Fiio amp fixed that instantly.
Click to expand...

Ehh? From what I have seen other places the Sound Blaster Z should be able to drive the DT990 250ohms.
 
It will power them but it will not drive them, read what has been posted above. Just because it has volume doesn't mean the soundstage is there.

It really is like the headphones "coming to life" when you drive them properly.

I believe the ZXR can drive them much better than a Z or ZX can, but I use an amp regardless.
 
VulcaN said:
It will power them but it will not drive them, read what has been posted above. Just because it has volume doesn't mean the soundstage is there.

It really is like the headphones "coming to life" when you drive them properly.

I believe the ZXR can drive them much better than a Z or ZX can, but I use an amp regardless.
Click to expand...
So you just use your soundblaster as the dac then? I'm curious, what kind of volume settings do you use on the Z.

Do you do something like 10% on the Z and then the majority of the amp? Vice versa? I haven't had an amp before so I don't really know where you should be turning the volume up exactly. Also, do you use the amped headphone out on the Z to the amp?

Edit:
It looks like you would need to use lineout from the SB-Z and lineout does not have a headphone mode. People are reporting that this degrades the 3D effect. Might not be worthwhile to get an amp then in that case.
 
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If you are getting the Z then you will have to bi-amp, that is run the headphone out from the Z to the input on the amp (usually using a 3.5mm to RCA cable, quality ones are readily available on amazon). This means you have to set the windows volume and / or amp volume low as the signal will be amped twice. You can play around with it to see if lowering either setting lowers the audio quality for you; some people suggest always having the windows volume high, some amp's recommend not running them at extremely low settings on the dial, etc. This is the work around until creatives drivers allow headphone mode to work over lineout.

If you get the ZXR you can try it first without an amp as its a bit more powerful. If you still feel like something might be missing I'd buy an amp from somewhere with a good return policy in case the amp doesn't sound any different to your ears.
 
Syphon Filter said:
Would you be happier if I had bought the ZXR or is only the STX enough for you? You're using a Sound Blaster Z yourself according to your sig so I really don't know why you're questioning this...
Click to expand...

Your money, Just trying to help. My use for the SBZ is purely surround sound for gaming and movies. If audio quality is high priority i would be getting the STX. For me since i dont listen to music on my pc, STX has no use.
 
Can you point us to a decent article (NOT opinion piece) that shows, measurably, the difference between volume and drive ability please?

Words like "they are able to produce sound...but the headphones werent sounding like intended" don't really mean anything. All it says is you perceived a difference after buying another bit of kit.

EDIT: I should also say that I have ZERO issue with the headphones for music. It sounds as it should and the DT880 (BeyerDynamic in general) are know for their flat response because they are studio headphones DESIGNED to listen to the mix and not colour the audio. Also, the volume of a headphone is a function of the volume and current so if the desired volumes are achievable then what difference would the ability to supply more (of either V or I) make OTHER than allowing increased volume?
 
you just need to search google... there are charts out there that back up our claims, but what you really need to do is buy from somewhere with a good return policy, so you can hear it for yourself. Do you have a home theater receiver in your home? Most likely it has a headphone out and the amp is beefy enough to power the headphones. That was the turning point for me, when my receiver sounded better than my soundcard I knew something was amiss.

Charts don't matter, its what you hear. If your ears cant discern a difference, why waste money?

Heres one where the DT990 couldnt even be powered properly by a ZXR, what do you think would happen with the lower end ZX or Z?
http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=699412
 
Well right off the bat with my DT990 250ohms, there isn't a huge difference with my magni I just got in. Maybe a bit more bass.
 
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