Sony Is Struggling With PlayStation 5 Price Due to Costly Parts

Domingo

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If true, that's pretty interesting. I no-longer own a 4K Blu-Ray player...but I'm also not sure it's worth $100 for a drive I'll otherwise never use.
$399 is a good price for a brand-new high end system, too.
 

cybereality

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I believe it. Actually sold my 4K player recently in anticipation (only got $80, but it will go toward the PS5).

Have about 20 or 30 UHD discs but I almost never watch any of them since streaming is much more convenient.

Also have a decent size PS4 collection, probably like 50 games, many of them never played so I will want to catch up on PS5.
 
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Sycraft

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I would say 100GB will be more of a cap than an average. I will go out on a limb and say that most PS5 games will likely not even use half that. You can look at the history of other game consoles as well. As I noted FFVII was actually a game much smaller than 700MB. It was just pre-rendered CGI that took a glut of space. Games like Doom 2016 aren’t that big nor or other AAA titles like Control of Battlefield. There isn’t really any evidence that it will balloon that large except in games that have absurdly large asssts, which does happen (most notably in massive sandbox games) but like I say: will not be the average.

One of the things you’re not considering as well even as you say that is the disc-less PS5. That a whole other bag of worms. For that console all sizes of games will be arbitrary. And in theory would only be limited by the total space available. Just like PC. But just like PC, both the disc and non-disc version will really be governed by how much internal storage there is versus how big a BD disc is because both versions will basically require that the game is completely installed on the internal drive in order to run (except perhaps, and most ironically, pre-rendered cut-scene videos).
Not just internal storage availability, but the cost of developing assets. Even if you went to a studio and said "Your target system has 128GB VRAM, 1TB system RAM and 500TB of nVME storage" they wouldn't develop a massive game because there isn't the time and resources. It takes artist time to make unique textures, models, etc. That's why you see re-use in games. There is just only so much you can make in terms of art assets, even given unlimited space. So while things may get a little bigger, we are already reaching practical limits of how much you can develop and there are plenty of people warning the AAA budget sizes are getting unsustainable.
 

WorldExclusive

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Sony is going to need atleast 10+ exclusive titles and third party AAA titles like COD and 2077 at launch to sell the PS5 above $400.
Without a solid game lineup, people won't pay.
 

vegeta535

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Sony is going to need atleast 10+ exclusive titles and third party AAA titles like COD and 2077 at launch to sell the PS5 above $400.
Without a solid game lineup, people won't pay.
They will sell every single unit day one no matter what the launch line up is at 4 $400/500. It will be the biggest ticket item this holiday season. There also has never been a console release that had over 10 solid games on launch day. Hell not even months later.
 
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cybereality

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Well Sony showed trailers for several exclusive games that look pretty nice, not sure how many are launch titles.
 

Aurelius

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Sony is going to need atleast 10+ exclusive titles and third party AAA titles like COD and 2077 at launch to sell the PS5 above $400.
Without a solid game lineup, people won't pay.
Those will help, but remember that console launch game lineups tend to be mediocre as a general rule. There's usually just one or two truly excellent titles. All Sony really needs to do this time is show one or two good exclusives (Miles Morales is likely one of them) and that a few of the games you have now will see a major benefit. Hell, I'm happy that Destiny 2 will run at 4K60 and load faster.
 

Domingo

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It's anecdotal of course, but it seems like people are pumped for this round of consoles...and they were long before either showed any actual games. I have lots of casual (if you even want to call it that) gamer friends and they're pumped up for this release like it's the PS3/360 era. I feel the same way. People are stir crazy right now. I think that's part of it.
I bet the PS5 sells out instantly and it wouldn't shock me if the new Xbox did, too. Especially depending on how pricing and bundles work.
That's the one thing I'm not looking forward to. Assuming things do sell out, you know there are gonna be lots of overpriced idiotic bundles. The sort that includes the accessories and games nobody wants for like $1000.
 

odditory

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Sony is going to need atleast 10+ exclusive titles and third party AAA titles like COD and 2077 at launch to sell the PS5 above $400.
Without a solid game lineup, people won't pay.
Not necessarily. You're forgetting many people will buy the disc version to maintain their ability to sell the physical copy of their games when they're done playing them. That'll pay for itself pretty quickly

How DARE you forget that?
 

cybereality

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Not necessarily. You're forgetting many people will buy the disc version to maintain their ability to sell the physical copy of their games when they're done playing them. That'll pay for itself pretty quickly
Or buy used games. Trade at store or to friends.
 

odditory

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Yeah, I have a decent collection of PS4 games I still never played.

Would love to be able to toss those in the PS5 and get 4K60 or HDR like Xbox is doing.
Yeah, but I have a feeling that the old PS4 games would need to be patched to become "PS5 aware" or they'll perform exactly the same, still be 30FPS locked, etc.

The obvious first choice for me would be the hope of playing Bloodborne at 60FPS, but since the developer didn't do shit for the boost mode on PS4 Pro, I wouldn't get my hopes up for them patching it for PS5. Which would be too bad since it seems like not a lot of effort to sell more copies.
 
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cybereality

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"We're expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We're currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers," Sony said in a March 2020 update.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7320...compatibility-making-good-progress/index.html

Looks like the work is underway, but likely will need patches to take advantage of the new hardware without breaking things.
 

Flogger23m

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Probably betting on most people opting for the disc drive version for the reasons above, I assume margins are higher. But the non-disc version allows them to offer a cheaper option.
 

Aurelius

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Probably betting on most people opting for the disc drive version for the reasons above, I assume margins are higher. But the non-disc version allows them to offer a cheaper option.
I imagine Sony will shift a lot of disc drive versions initially, but that demand will taper off as the company reels in more newcomers and others who weren't heavily invested in the PS4.
 

next-Jin

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Tbh if they don’t patch Bloodbourne it would be a huge mistake. I’m surprised Sony hasn’t bought Bluepoint for these types of tasks. I’d trust this type of thing to them. It shouldn’t be a Demons Souls delaying venture to have them patch Bloodbourne to 60fps and maybe a resolution bump. Unless physics are tied to frame rate which would be aggravating.

Regardless they should buy Bluepoint and have them handle the PS4 patches where applicable for the first 6 months after Demon Souls then get back to remasters.
 

Verge

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I would say 100GB will be more of a cap than an average. I will go out on a limb and say that most PS5 games will likely not even use half that. You can look at the history of other game consoles as well. As I noted FFVII was actually a game much smaller than 700MB. It was just pre-rendered CGI that took a glut of space. Games like Doom 2016 aren’t that big nor or other AAA titles like Control of Battlefield. There isn’t really any evidence that it will balloon that large except in games that have absurdly large asssts, which does happen (most notably in massive sandbox games) but like I say: will not be the average.

One of the things you’re not considering as well even as you say that is the disc-less PS5. That a whole other bag of worms. For that console all sizes of games will be arbitrary. And in theory would only be limited by the total space available. Just like PC. But just like PC, both the disc and non-disc version will really be governed by how much internal storage there is versus how big a BD disc is because both versions will basically require that the game is completely installed on the internal drive in order to run (except perhaps, and most ironically, pre-rendered cut-scene videos).
So current gen games on 2 discs that use literally, no UHD video at all... will be larger than next gen games... with substantially more assets, more complexity, higher resolution textures???

Eeeeh
 

UnknownSouljer

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So current gen games on 2 discs that use literally, no UHD video at all... will be larger than next gen games... with substantially more assets, more complexity, higher resolution textures???

Eeeeh
Please read my other posts in this thread about the subject. There are several pieces of tech that the XSX and PS5 have that should offset the increasing size of games.

Games like RDR2 are an outlier, but it's not really a two disc game. Even full PC install is 107GB. That barely qualifies as a 1.1 Disc Game. There are fewer dual disc games on current gen than I can count on one hand. Additionally there are basically only 3 games that are 100GB or more in terms of install size.
Here is a top ten install size list from "The Gamer": https://www.thegamer.com/playstation-red-dead-redemption-ps4/
Numbers 10 to 5 aren't even over 50GB (unless you count DLC and expansions, as noted in the article). This list predates The Last of Us 2, which you could put in the #2 spot at just over 100GB.
So this constant and repeated freaking out is really unfounded. There is an absurd focus on basically 3-4 outliers that aren't even close to the norm this gen. And certainly won't be close to the norm next gen.
 
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odditory

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Tbh if they don’t patch Bloodbourne it would be a huge mistake. I’m surprised Sony hasn’t bought Bluepoint for these types of tasks. I’d trust this type of thing to them. It shouldn’t be a Demons Souls delaying venture to have them patch Bloodbourne to 60fps and maybe a resolution bump. Unless physics are tied to frame rate which would be aggravating.
Nah, there's a guy that patched Bloodborne to 60FPS a few months ago, and did a 30min video with a DigitalFoundry guy taking him through the process. He found 720p60 to be the sweet spot since the PS4 Pro could maintain 60FPS at that res, and frame timing was also way better.

The game looks and plays beautifully at 60FPS, and apparently the increased fluidity is especially felt during boss fights since that's where reaction times are tested most and speed is critical.

 
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Nolan7689

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Nah, there's a guy that patched Bloodborne to 60FPS a few months ago, and did a 30min video with a DigitalFoundry guy taking him through the process. He found 720p60 to be the sweet spot since the PS4 Pro could maintain 60FPS at that res, and frame timing was also way better.

The game looks and plays beautifully at 60FPS, and apparently the increased fluidity is especially felt during boss fights since that's where reaction times are tested most and speed is critical.

He did however have to go through a lot of options in the engine and change values to make it work appropriately at 60fps, he compared to the updated engine in Dark Souls 3 that has those changes
 

Verge

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Please read my other posts in this thread about the subject. There are several pieces of tech that the XSX and PS5 have that should offset the increasing size of games.

Games like RDR2 are an outlier, but it's not really a two disc game. Even full PC install is 107GB. That barely qualifies as a 1.1 Disc Game. There are fewer dual disc games on current gen than I can count on one hand. Additionally there are basically only 3 games that are 100GB or more in terms of install size.
Here is a top ten install size list from "The Gamer": https://www.thegamer.com/playstation-red-dead-redemption-ps4/
Numbers 10 to 5 aren't even over 50GB (unless you count DLC and expansions, as noted in the article). This list predates The Last of Us 2, which you could put in the #2 spot at just over 100GB.
So this constant and repeated freaking out is really unfounded. There is an absurd focus on basically 3-4 outliers that aren't even close to the norm this gen. And certainly won't be close to the norm next gen.
The top 4 from your link are 75% of the ps5's hdd.
 

Nolan7689

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Please read my other posts in this thread about the subject. There are several pieces of tech that the XSX and PS5 have that should offset the increasing size of games.

Games like RDR2 are an outlier, but it's not really a two disc game. Even full PC install is 107GB. That barely qualifies as a 1.1 Disc Game. There are fewer dual disc games on current gen than I can count on one hand. Additionally there are basically only 3 games that are 100GB or more in terms of install size.
Here is a top ten install size list from "The Gamer": https://www.thegamer.com/playstation-red-dead-redemption-ps4/
Numbers 10 to 5 aren't even over 50GB (unless you count DLC and expansions, as noted in the article). This list predates The Last of Us 2, which you could put in the #2 spot at just over 100GB.
So this constant and repeated freaking out is really unfounded. There is an absurd focus on basically 3-4 outliers that aren't even close to the norm this gen. And certainly won't be close to the norm next gen.
The top 4 from your link are 75% of the ps5's hdd.
I’d like to note that I just checked on my PS4 and Destiny 2 is only 100.8GB. So I have no idea where IGN came up with that absurd 165GB, and it throws the rest under suspicion.
 

cybereality

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Well, I see two sides of it.

1) It's next-gen so games may be expected to be 4K, higher details, etc. causing game size to increase. Developers have more disc space and may use it for 4K textures, higher quality audio/video, etc.

2) Sony is selling a digital only console, meaning developers may need to be conservative with install size without forcing people to buy additional storage or uninstall games constantly.
 

Verge

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I’d like to note that I just checked on my PS4 and Destiny 2 is only 100.8GB. So I have no idea where IGN came up with that absurd 165GB, and it throws the rest under suspicion.
Yea i think they are using PC install sizes. It's IGN
 

Nolan7689

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Yea i think they are using PC install sizes. It's IGN
That makes perfect sense, every game they list is multiplatform and it’s not even accurate in terms of the games listed. I know Spider-Man is larger than Mafia 3, but didn’t even make the list.
 

nguyen704

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I agree with his prediction on the MSRP of the PS5 ($499 for Physical, $399 for Digital) and I'm okay with it. I'm making the leap and going all digital for next-gen.
 

Ranulfo

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Meh, going all digital locks you into Sony or MS's stores for game prices for the most part. They're at least more competitive than in the past but the benefit of the consoles has been that they still let you own the games physically. Despite the downsides of that, you can at least sell/trade or play those games without internet connections.
 

Flogger23m

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Meh, going all digital locks you into Sony or MS's stores for game prices for the most part. They're at least more competitive than in the past but the benefit of the consoles has been that they still let you own the games physically. Despite the downsides of that, you can at least sell/trade or play those games without internet connections.
You can buy games from Amazon or Green Man Gaming, CDkeys and the like.
 
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