Sony Is Struggling With PlayStation 5 Price Due to Costly Parts

blackmomba

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Meh, maybe. I seem to collect games in the same way my Steam library keeps growing. "That looks cool, let me grab it on sale and I will play it when I get time." But my 4ish hr/week gaming habit never really allows me to complete most games, or really get to most of them... Dozens to hundreds of non-played games in my library has proved this true year after year.
I'll play them games for you bub
 

Armenius

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Exactly how many XBX's sold in relation to the cheaper models?
Considering the One X has been out for less than half as long as the "cheaper" models it's not hard to understand why there are fewer of them in the wild than the One/One S/One S Digital. Your point would be relevant only if all models were released at the same time.
 

UnknownSouljer

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Good to know. But I'm glad for a few things: it's forcing Sony to address the issue now and hopefully kick out an excellent design for their hardware. Excellence as measured by ability to not overheat.
I was reading elsewhere that Sony typically finalizes its designs in a 3-6 month window before product launch, so this is "normal" but still very much cutting it close. It's critical they get this right though, as although the XBSX is quite large, thermal considerations were clearly thought of. They definitely do not want to be behind in this regard.
 

Revdarian

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The rumor is bs and that particular windows central, now editor, has a history of posting FUD against Sony.

Also, no, cooling an ssd isn't hard, they are sub 10w people. That should tell you how bs it is.

Edit: remember that it's mostly the controller that which generates the heat VS the chips themselves and the controller is cooled by the APU's cooling solution.
 

zehoo

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Sony probably just plan to show the design at the Tokyo game show (If it’s still going ahead) to make their home market feel special.
 

exlink

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Honestly, I think Microsoft and Sony are waiting to see who will announce their price first so that they can either: a) beat it if the margins are there, or b) come up with a better way of pitching the system when revealing an equal or higher price than the competitor.

Microsoft failed justifying the $499 price tag of the Xbox One with the Kinect which killed the system for many prospective buyers, and I imagine neither Sony nor Microsoft want to find themselves in that position this time around.
 

Marees

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Rumors aside, the storage controller heating up will really romeo fox their storage-centric game loading solution.
Possible.
I think Sony has to invest in a better cooling solution (for the SSD) than Microsoft because they are targetting higher speeds

https://twitter.com/MakaiKauai/status/1245808369245376512?s=20

Cerny was quoted in Eurogamer as being aware of this for the replaceable internal NVMe disk. So probably they have overcome this issue for the primary SSD by now
 

Bowman15

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Possible.
I think Sony has to invest in a better cooling solution (for the SSD) than Microsoft because they are targetting higher speeds

https://twitter.com/MakaiKauai/status/1245808369245376512?s=20

Cerny was quoted in Eurogamer as being aware of this for the replaceable internal NVMe disk. So probably they have overcome this issue for the primary SSD by now
The easiest part if true is getting the cooling correct. Hardest part is probably keeping the cost down. It will work itself out...
 

Revdarian

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The main controller of the ssd is on the APU package, the APU is cooled at a fixed rate of lets say a 250w thermal load (number out of my ass) between cpu+gpu+i/o.

If a scenes is too gpu intense in power load then amd smartshift will try and keep gpu at max while throttling the cpu to keep the power envelope, this changes in milliseconds. Similarly if you somehow make a game that requires avx from the cpu and it is at 100% utilization trying to exceed the power limit then the GPU will throttle while the load lasts. Power consumption varies in a cubic fashion that's why 10% less frequency equals around 27% less power, ensuring a consistent level of heat generation and dissipation on the package so don't worry about the i/o.

Added nvme drives first need to be tested and certified by Sony to meet the requirements of size and performance consistency, meanwhile you can use USB external drives as cold storages.

Tldr: both consoles will still be awesome, don't worry about it and let's wait for the games :)
 

Derangel

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The main controller of the ssd is on the APU package, the APU is cooled at a fixed rate of lets say a 250w thermal load (number out of my ass) between cpu+gpu+i/o.

If a scenes is too gpu intense in power load then amd smartshift will try and keep gpu at max while throttling the cpu to keep the power envelope, this changes in milliseconds. Similarly if you somehow make a game that requires avx from the cpu and it is at 100% utilization trying to exceed the power limit then the GPU will throttle while the load lasts. Power consumption varies in a cubic fashion that's why 10% less frequency equals around 27% less power, ensuring a consistent level of heat generation and dissipation on the package so don't worry about the i/o.

Added nvme drives first need to be tested and certified by Sony to meet the requirements of size and performance consistency, meanwhile you can use USB external drives as cold storages.

Tldr: both consoles will still be awesome, don't worry about it and let's wait for the games :)
The SSD controller is not on the APU. They clearly showed the controller being separate in their presentation.
 

Revdarian

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The SSD controller is not on the APU. They clearly showed the controller being separate in their presentation.

18min 2sec, the main custom chip holds the cpu, gpu and the io controller.

Edit: I am not arguing against you, just saying yeah the flash controller itself sits aside from the APU, still it's expected to be fully cooled in the same block.
 

Marees

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Sony expects the PS5’s price to be higher at launch thanks to expensive internal components, Bloomberg reports, and as a result, the company will produce “far fewer” units than with the PS4.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/...-production-over-price-not-coronavirus-report

Pushing the launches back 6-12 months might be fine from Sony and Microsoft’s perspective, but their various studio partners might not be able to absorb the financial hit. Plenty of game studios have gone out of business when they couldn’t ship a game on time for reasons that had nothing to do with a global pandemic.
~ Joel Hruska in ExtremeTech
 

jeremyshaw

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~ Joel Hruska in ExtremeTech
From MSFT's perspective, all XSX games are required to support XBO anyways, for the next couple of years. It does afford them and their partners more of a buffer. Not a great one, obviously, but better than having no platform whatsoever.
 

T4rd

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I like how you totally missed/ignored the dev's quote right under that pile of FUD:
Yes let me be unequivocally clear: this is nonsense
But regardless, the PS5 doesn't exist yet, therefore cannot be a "hot system". Anything you read, bad or good, about the these consoles until they're actually released and tested, means nothing. So I really don't get the point in speculating so much about them until they're out in their final form and testing can be done. The only thing I'm concerned about with them is when they'll be released and for how much. Performance in games will be negligble between the consoles too despite what the specs say too, so again, I don't see much point in debating that either, esp. considering Sony still has the best exclusives across any platform, which MS is trying to combat with all the studio aquisitions they had last year but will take years to pay off still.

I would still rather stream my games to my living room from my PC or put an HTPC in there for VR before I got an Xbone though, since there's not going to be any true exclusives for the console in that regard. If MS supported VR at all on the Xbone, then I would consider getting one, but as of right now the only thing I use my Xbone X for is BC play of my old 360 games or maybe the occasional Blu-Ray.
 

d3athf1sh

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I would still rather stream my games to my living room from my PC or put an HTPC in there for VR before I got an Xbone though, since there's not going to be any true exclusives for the console in that regard. If MS supported VR at all on the Xbone, then I would consider getting one, but as of right now the only thing I use my Xbone X for is BC play of my old 360 games or maybe the occasional Blu-Ray.
exactly. if you own an up to date pc there's really no reason to even buy an XBOX especially with the new Xbox App they've been talking about for PC. And I was a little tempted to grab a ps4 just for spider-man and Horizon Zero Dawn, but man I'm not paying a $400 toll just to play 1 or 2 games i'd rather use that to updrade my PC 👽. and now with HZD is coming to pc def won't ever happen. Last console i bought was a PS3 and after i moved it just got left in the box because every time I bought a game it was for PC anyway. PS3 didn't have sh*t on PC graphics even when it first came out though. But we may have some good competition heading our way.

But IF i was a living room gamer, like you said, I would prob just grab an Nvidia Shield. The new ones are only $149 so if you're pc is up to spec then you'd be good to go. but i do have to say, at least the consoles have some pretty decent hardware in them this go around. Should be good for gaming as a whole but gonna put a lot of peoples aging pc's to shame and gonna eventually either force a lot of upgrades, you know all the ones still running quad cores, or may even have some pc guys jumping ship, especially w/ what they're charging for graphics cards now days. Heck you'll (prob) be able to buy a new console w/ an 8 core zen 2 proc, 16gb ram, blu-ray drive, AND and an nvme ssd in it for less than JUST a nice gpu? Wow, I think they've been ripping us off. Either that or these may be the first $1000 consoles? Wouldn't suprise me when people are paying $1000 for cell phones.
 

vegeta535

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exactly. if you own an up to date pc there's really no reason to even buy an XBOX especially with the new Xbox App they've been talking about for PC. And I was a little tempted to grab a ps4 just for spider-man and Horizon Zero Dawn, but man I'm not paying a $400 toll just to play 1 or 2 games i'd rather use that to updrade my PC 👽. and now with HZD is coming to pc def won't ever happen. Last console i bought was a PS3 and after i moved it just got left in the box because every time I bought a game it was for PC anyway. PS3 didn't have sh*t on PC graphics even when it first came out though. But we may have some good competition heading our way.

But IF i was a living room gamer, like you said, I would prob just grab an Nvidia Shield. The new ones are only $149 so if you're pc is up to spec then you'd be good to go. but i do have to say, at least the consoles have some pretty decent hardware in them this go around. Should be good for gaming as a whole but gonna put a lot of peoples aging pc's to shame and gonna eventually either force a lot of upgrades, you know all the ones still running quad cores, or may even have some pc guys jumping ship, especially w/ what they're charging for graphics cards now days. Heck you'll (prob) be able to buy a new console w/ an 8 core zen 2 proc, 16gb ram, blu-ray drive, AND and an nvme ssd in it for less than JUST a nice gpu? Wow, I think they've been ripping us off. Either that or these may be the first $1000 consoles? Wouldn't suprise me when people are paying $1000 for cell phones.
Cell phones are a different thing. To a great deal of people it is more of a accessory then anything else. Can't really run around showing off your fancy $1200 video card.
 

VIC-20

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Cell phones are a different thing. To a great deal of people it is more of a accessory then anything else. Can't really run around showing off your fancy $1200 video card.
I agree in general, but hardware vanity is now a thing. Every hardware brand fan page, Instagram and YouTube are filled with people and influencers showing off their gear. $20-30k gaming rooms show up on my feeds and Reddit now. Didn't expect that to ever be a thing. It is a much more limited base, but it is expanding beyond pure enthusiasts to the Kardashian prestige type of person. Really took off with Razer fans, but ROG(Asus), MSI and Aorus(Gigabyte) are building some big cult followings now.
 

Hakaba

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Wasn't the ps3 priced at $500? I don't think it's out of the question that this one will be too.
Yeah grabbed one for 60,000 yen at release, still cheaper than stand alone Blu-ray players at the time.


...so people can afford a $1000 console.
NEO-GEO? Was what $650/700 at launch? Not including the $200 games.
Maybe the Phantom console will be the first to break $1K?
 
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vegeta535

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Yeah grabbed one for 60,000 yen at release, still cheaper than stand alone Blu-ray players at the time.




NEO-GEO? Was what $650/700 at launch? Not including the $200 games.
Maybe the Phantom console will be the first to break $1K?
That was in the 90s. It was a beast of a system that had arcade quality graphic but no one would pony up the money for one. It was very niche and sold poorly.
 

Verge

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That was in the 90s. It was a beast of a system that had arcade quality graphic but no one would pony up the money for one. It was very niche and sold poorly.
I knew zero people that had one. Even the rich guy that had TWO uss flaggs... TWO of em. It was so expensive we all thought it was a myth.
 

defaultluser

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I knew zero people that had one. Even the rich guy that had TWO uss flaggs... TWO of em. It was so expensive we all thought it was a myth.

And they gave no forethought into putting in current cutting-edge features. There is no 3D-acceleration, and no hardware transparency. There's also no higher resolution support.

They just said "hey, let's take that Sega Genesis, and make it twice as fast, and upgrade the onscreen colors." SNK was sunk by their own management, and the games were the only thing that kept them afloat.

The SNES had much better feature-set for the time (for 1/4 the price), and the native 3D consoles were about to launch.

The PS5 will sell tens of millions in it's expected 7 years on the market, but launching it at $450 will move a whole lot more early launch units than $500.

At $500 people are going to wait until more games are available.

I have no clue why we have 11 pages of discussion about whether Sony is going to sell another 10 million more PS5 consoles or not :D
 
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Armenius

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Yeah grabbed one for 60,000 yen at release, still cheaper than stand alone Blu-ray players at the time.




NEO-GEO? Was what $650/700 at launch? Not including the $200 games.
Maybe the Phantom console will be the first to break $1K?
Yep. I dreamed about having an AES because I absolutely loved the NEO GEO suite of arcade games. $650 USD in 1990 is nearly $1,300 USD today, or as much as a 2080 Ti. Plus $200-$300 for the games. My family couldn't afford that kind of money back then.
 

d3athf1sh

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Cell phones are a different thing. To a great deal of people it is more of a accessory then anything else. Can't really run around showing off your fancy $1200 video card.
do people really show off their phones? what i was talking about is consoles possibly costing $1000 bucks because if you're gonna pay $1000 for a phone why not your game station? guess which one you'll prob have longer? and by all means, $1200 for a video card is outrageous. Just a few years ago before the mining craze, top end gpu's were like $500-600 every time they would come out with a new generation it stayed the same. and they were banking back then, shoot it doesn't cost them any more now to make this years version as it did last years, they're just charging more for it, just because they can, and why not? people are buying the crap out of em. Even when they have verified design problems, people just keep buying them.? Seems like the smarter technology gets, the dumber people get. If people would just refuse to buy price gouged electronics they'd be forced to drop the price! but they keep selling them almost as fast as they make them. So i doubt we'll be seeing prices go down anytime soon. Funny wages stay roughly the same but seems like the price of everything has just keeps growing.
 

d3athf1sh

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Yep. I dreamed about having an AES because I absolutely loved the NEO GEO suite of arcade games. $650 USD in 1990 is nearly $1,300 USD today, or as much as a 2080 Ti. Plus $200-$300 for the games. My family couldn't afford that kind of money back then.
i don't think even rich people could afford (or were dumb enough) to shell out $200/ game in the 90's. Shit and even as greedy as ubisoft is, they only want ~$100 even in 2020! :) use to love some King of the Monsters tho....
 
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