Sony Can Update PS3 Firmware Without Asking

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Let this serve as a reminder to always read the EULA, and we are not just talking about Sony either. You’d be surprised at just what you are agreeing to sometimes when you click that "agree" button. :eek:

Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, new technology or revised settings and features which may prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3™ system.
Click to expand...
 
For things like security patches, I don't mind it happening automatically. Now it's a firmware update, that's a different story. I know I'd be pissed if some new update automatically installed and killed my backwards compatibility.
 
yeah that doesn't bother me either, and companies wouldn't be implementing these at all if people quit burning their own copies of games instead of buying them
 
Evil said:
yeah that doesn't bother me either, and companies wouldn't be implementing these at all if people quit burning their own copies of games instead of buying them
Click to expand...

Who is burning and playing PS3 backups using the exploit that was found? a quick google search for "playing PS3 backups" doesn't return any results. I spend an average of $120 a month on games for the PC, 360 and PS3. I only own 5 titles for the PS3 as the exclusives do not appeal to me and I'd rather play on the PC. I bought the PS3 as it had a failed optical drive just so I could use the other OS feature. Since then I bought the parts and repaired the system myself. I'd be royally upset if my console was updated to prevent an issue that does not yet exist ><
 
It fits with their new slogan "It does everything!" now without your permission...

:)
 
Ultimatly it doesn't matter as the both the 360 and PS3 require you to patch to the latest software when you want to play some games.

I wanted to try out a new game on my 360 that I hadn't used in probably 2 years and it required me to update to newer software which completely changed the UI of my XBOX360.

But ultimatly I use my PS3 and 360 for what they were meant to be used for, so not really a concern for me.
 
kllrnohj said:
Not a damn thing. EULAs aren't legally binding.
Click to expand...

They are for certain things. Signing your soul over or crazy stuff like that would not hold up in court. Forced system updates most definitely would.

Not that I object to it. I always keep my systems up to date anyways. This is just Sony's way of legally covering their own butts for when they decide to alter features how they see fit.
 
kllrnohj said:
Not a damn thing. EULAs aren't legally binding.
Click to expand...
ELUAs fall under contract law. The only way to find out what is legaly binding is by case law. Unfortunately most of what is put in ELUAs have never been tested in court. This means the only way to know if it does hold up would be to sue Sony or have Sony sue you (Or hope someone else does it).
 
westrock2000 said:
Ultimatly it doesn't matter as the both the 360 and PS3 require you to patch to the latest software when you want to play some games.

I wanted to try out a new game on my 360 that I hadn't used in probably 2 years and it required me to update to newer software which completely changed the UI of my XBOX360.

But ultimatly I use my PS3 and 360 for what they were meant to be used for, so not really a concern for me.
Click to expand...

Simply don't connect your system to the internet and you aren't required to patch anything to play games.
 
krotch said:
Simply don't connect your system to the internet and you aren't required to patch anything to play games.
Click to expand...


Some games require certain firmwares to play and include the firmware on the game disc. I update my PS3 regularly, so its not a problem to me, but I don't like them covering their butts after they've done something they know is wrong.

Taking a feature away you advertised as a selling feature of said device is unsettling since b/c could be taken in a similar update. Any feature could.

Other OS was not something I used, though.
 
Doesn't affect me, I only update my PS3 if I want to cause I don't have it connected online, it only applies if I have a game disc with a newer update on it that forces me to upgrade.

Other than that, no!
 
you purchased the hardware and have to agree to the terms in order to use it on their network...its cut and dry, i dont see the problem, dont like it? dont use it. its kind of funny how MS has been doing it all along (although they do ask if you want to update or not) and people have been paying for it to boot, yet the free PSN network everybody has been raving about suddenly get similiar forced updates and we're all up in arms over it.....

i say lets call this payment in arrears for all the free service you've soaked up ;)
 
next up will be a "premium PSN" service which you will have to pay for in order to play multiplayer games online....watch...its coming, they are leaving far too much money on the table right now not charging for it while they watch MS rake in millions for the same or similiar service
 
Evil said:
yeah that doesn't bother me either, and companies wouldn't be implementing these at all if people quit burning their own copies of games instead of buying them
Click to expand...

I used to buy a lot of games, now, I buy NONE because crap like this should bother people. It certainly bothers me.

I used to be a gaming maniac. From SEGA Genesis times through PS2 I bought games. When the price went up, instead of down, with the large increases in games sales I said f#@k that and now I don't buy games anymore - the industry got too greedy and I don't want to support them. Voting with my $.
 
gibber said:
I used to buy a lot of games, now, I buy NONE because crap like this should bother people. It certainly bothers me.

I used to be a gaming maniac. From SEGA Genesis times through PS2 I bought games. When the price went up, instead of down, with the large increases in games sales I said f#@k that and now I don't buy games anymore - the industry got too greedy and I don't want to support them. Voting with my $.
Click to expand...

I would reason to say that for most games the cost per game got cheaper when compared to the production cost.....in other words the net profit per unit is less. 15 years ago you could make a game on a $100k and under budget and now games are costing in the millions to produce.
 
infect0 said:
I would reason to say that for most games the cost per game got cheaper when compared to the production cost.....in other words the net profit per unit is less. 15 years ago you could make a game on a $100k and under budget and now games are costing in the millions to produce.
Click to expand...

QFT

Ten years ago did you see many if any games that used actual voice actors? Or a game that looked as good as the cut scenes and marketing material? Every time DX is updated there are feature added that make games look more realistic and require more development time with more people. You don't have 5 nerds in a garage making hit games anymore.
 
The problem with EULAs are that they are specifically crafted by well paid legal departments to be all but unintelligible to the layperson.. If everybody read every EULA for every piece of software they got, you'd wind up with a lot of people doing nothing but reading EULAs every moment of their free time.. And they are just ridiculous, because when you decipher the damn things they basically all say that the company has no liability for anything, no matter what goes wrong, even if they've done it on purpose and it borks your system.

They should just write it in plain English "We have your money, thanks.. Sucker! HAHAHA!" :D
 
OCgamer666 said:
QFT

Ten years ago did you see many if any games that used actual voice actors? Or a game that looked as good as the cut scenes and marketing material? Every time DX is updated there are feature added that make games look more realistic and require more development time with more people. You don't have 5 nerds in a garage making hit games anymore.
Click to expand...

Those were the good games imo. The Dooms and Duke Nukems , Quakes. There was another one with a China guy that I used to play.You could make him say all kinds of things. Cant remember the name. I want it back. Gonna have to build a win 98 box with my old hardware and have at it all over again. Anyone now the game im thinking of??
 
1/2 bent said:
Those were the good games imo. The Dooms and Duke Nukems , Quakes. There was another one with a China guy that I used to play.You could make him say all kinds of things. Cant remember the name. I want it back. Gonna have to build a win 98 box with my old hardware and have at it all over again. Anyone now the game im thinking of??
Click to expand...

Daikatana?
 
UrielDagda said:
The problem with EULAs are that they are specifically crafted by well paid legal departments to be all but unintelligible to the layperson.. If everybody read every EULA for every piece of software they got, you'd wind up with a lot of people doing nothing but reading EULAs every moment of their free time.. And they are just ridiculous, because when you decipher the damn things they basically all say that the company has no liability for anything, no matter what goes wrong, even if they've done it on purpose and it borks your system.

They should just write it in plain English "We have your money, thanks.. Sucker! HAHAHA!" :D
Click to expand...

And all that legalese actually makes it even less likely that the EULA will hold up in court, meaning there is even less of a point to read them.
 
The case of EULAs being deceptive because of all the legal jargon is tied up in court presently. Depending on the victor, either EULAs will remain to same or be forced, by law, to be written in a manner which most citizens can fully understand.

Also, technically clicking "agree" on an EULA is NOT binding. Even by contract law because it is done through a computer. In order to be truly legally binding, a digital signature must be included in the transaction. Which I have yet to see any software that uses it except tax software when you are about to submit your taxes online.

On paper simple marking an "X" as a means of yes I agree means nothing because it cannot be verified who signed the X. Which is why your full signature is required on paper
 
This is what happens when you buy into a closed proprietary system :}

Besides isnt that partly why people buy consoles in the first place? Usually the argument goes "PC's are too hard to run you need to update your drivers all the time and install patches and...and..."
 
You know, in the court of law, the defense has the advantage in proving that the EULA is legible and understandable. Generally speaking, arguing that the victim in question being negligent isn't hard...
 
Same EULA is applied when you install spyware on a pc. Not a good case for accepting EULA as being definitive legally binding contract.

The problem lies in the fine print. It should be illegal to allow any consumers to not get a headline count of what is being done to the system at all times, in the end it is the end user who purchased the hardware , purchased, not leased nor borrowed.

Thus on any piece of equipment that has these features it should be listed so the user is confronted with the feature before buying the product thus making them aware of the "problem" and even then there is no way around it after you bought your system.
 
This is just one of those things that it's going to upset someone, probably many many people. At the end of the day, like it or not, if there is a way to exploit a console to allow pirated games, be it a single person or a massive company, you have that right to protect your product. Put yourself in their shoes. Do you want to lose money? Of course you don't.

Fair is fair.
 
Like I said on another forum:

**** Sony

**** the horse they rode in on

and **** their little dog too!
 
1/2 bent said:
Those were the good games imo. The Dooms and Duke Nukems , Quakes. There was another one with a China guy that I used to play.You could make him say all kinds of things. Cant remember the name. I want it back. Gonna have to build a win 98 box with my old hardware and have at it all over again. Anyone now the game im thinking of??
Click to expand...

You're probably thinking of Lo Wang: Shadow Warrior. Built on the Duke Nukem engine by the same guys. It was hilarious.

Also: The EULA "change" in question has been in place since version 1.0, apparently.

And on the EULA, it's a software agreement, not so much a hardware one, and that's all they've really changed.

It sucks, and I'm kind of disappointed they've taken away a feature that's on my box. Realistically, if I didn't like the EULA, I could have taken the console straight back to the store and return it.
 
nobody_here said:
you purchased the hardware and have to agree to the terms in order to use it on their network...its cut and dry, i dont see the problem, dont like it? dont use it. its kind of funny how MS has been doing it all along (although they do ask if you want to update or not) and people have been paying for it to boot, yet the free PSN network everybody has been raving about suddenly get similiar forced updates and we're all up in arms over it.....

i say lets call this payment in arrears for all the free service you've soaked up ;)
Click to expand...

You didn't agree to any such thing when buying the unit from a vendor with their own return policy. So, you're free to own it, you just can't use it in any way without agreeing to this policy after the fact, or well after the fact if each update requires agreeing to a EULA that can itself change at any time.

Moreover, people were led to believe that the unit had certain features; that they make you agree *after the fact* that they can remove features *after the fact* is pure nonsense.

MS has been doing it all along and people had the same reaction to that as well. These things are not invalid, but they have very little meaning legally; it's just an easier position for them to be in when they do whatever they please.
 
dergreg said:
You're probably thinking of Lo Wang: Shadow Warrior. Built on the Duke Nukem engine by the same guys. It was hilarious.

Also: The EULA "change" in question has been in place since version 1.0, apparently.

And on the EULA, it's a software agreement, not so much a hardware one, and that's all they've really changed.

It sucks, and I'm kind of disappointed they've taken away a feature that's on my box. Realistically, if I didn't like the EULA, I could have taken the console straight back to the store and return it.
Click to expand...

And if the new EULA appears after your return period? Is Sony or MS willing to refund you your money at any time because you do not approve of the new firmware or agree to a new EULA?
 
Like we needed yet another reason to never buy anything SONY. SONY is fast becoming to Japan what Chrysler has become to America: but a shadow of its former self.
 
If they did that, and bricked my PS3 as a result, they can give me a replacement, that's why they don't do it automatically.
 
Yea all I can think of the problems that some firmwares cause. I don't think updating firmwares should be taken so lightly by these companies as the damage for a failed one can be much more damaging than a software update.
 
I am actually wondering the exact question over Hannover Messe. (The industrial fair that CeBit came from and now takes place at the same plaza). SONY didn't really have a presence in the fields of factory automation and in smart grid products at all, while Panasonic, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Hitachi and others are going at the LED part of energy efficient picture... just as the Korean conglomerates like Hyosung, Samsung and LG are now boasting their ability to make anything from wind turbines to 650kv transformer substations.
 
1/2 bent said:
Those were the good games imo. The Dooms and Duke Nukems , Quakes. There was another one with a China guy that I used to play.You could make him say all kinds of things. Cant remember the name. I want it back. Gonna have to build a win 98 box with my old hardware and have at it all over again. Anyone now the game im thinking of??
Click to expand...

Shadow Warrior?

Diakatana...who the heck bought that POS, that was getting almost as bad a reputation as Duke Nukem Forever until it actually came out, and they should have just dropped it and worked on something else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top