Sony Against the World

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Rich Tate

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jun 9, 2005
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There are people who believe that all the talk of Sony being in serious trouble is somewhat premature.

Should Sony's system be counted out? Even with all its problems, I'd say the answer is no. The reason is simple: The PlayStation 3 isn't always going to be in short supply. Several months from now, no one will recall a day when there was precious little chance of snagging the new console with Blu-ray capability.
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I think it's a little goofy for them to say "...no one will recall a day...", because people will definitely remember. People still remember how hard it was to get an X360. There's no reason to expect people will forget about Sony's fumble either.
 
I think it's about time Sony got a little break...poor bastards have been the bashmeat this year (even moreso than Microsoft, RIAA, etc), due to poor decisions made at the upper management level (probably).

Then again, they'd be a lot better off without the upper-level arrogance too. Making a mistake, sure, but not even sincerely trying to resolve it/apologize is just prick'ish. (Wasn't their an article on how Sony execs did not bow whilst making a statement on the batteries? Apparently that's a large cultural fubar in Japan.)
 
Mark_Warner said:
I think it's a little goofy for them to say "...no one will recall a day...", because people will definitely remember. People still remember how hard it was to get an X360. There's no reason to expect people will forget about Sony's fumble either.
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true.. but.. the general population won't remember or won't care about it..
 
No, Sony doesn't deserve a break, they deserve everything they got and more for shitting all over the customer whenever they think they can get away with it.

Problem is we people got to short a memory, malicious rootkit ring a bell anyone?
 
Brand Loyalty is what we are seeing here.

Example

Vodoo or Nvidia - I choose nvidia and won *surprisingly*
Nintendo or playstation - People went for power because the 3d genre was still being developed
Playstation or Dreamcast - Dreamcast was the better system, IMO, but brand loyalty stuck back with Playstation and then people bought the gamecube - because of upgrades and brand loyalty.

Now we are "next-gen"

Microsoft - Getting followers from the XBOX era
Sony - Getting PS2 followers that don't want to look outside the box
and
Nintendo Wii - Which is back to its old adages from the early nintendo era

So what's happening?

We are seeing a supply demand flux for Microsoft which was out first getting the top level off the market They are picking up all the hardcore online gamers that want a solid all in one gaming experience

Nintendo is gaining market share because they are going after what gamers want most.. fun

Sony... What are they doing. It's in my personal opinion that the system is overhyped and lacking what gamers want most and are accustomed to.

Easy online play *it has it, but is lacking in features*
Fun factor - I hardly call the ps2 controller a fun controller it's in desperate need of a redesign
Lack of rumble feature - they are taking away innovation they started or jump-started in the market. it's one of those features that puts you in the game.
Proprietary Media - The dreamcast did it with the GDrom and failed.... who's to say Sony is correct this time.

With that being said.

My market Predictions:

Sony 35% Share
Nintendo 40% Share
Microsoft 24% Shared

1% Error included to split out to any 3 parties.

Agreements / disagreements please post
 
Sony's problem with the PS3 right now is they have no "Killer" app out right now. The main thing they have for them is that the PS3 is a "cheap" Blu-Ray player. Nintendo has the Zelda game out as a launch title and that's a HUGE title to have with the Wii and I applaud Nintendo for having such a high profile game available at launch.
 
I don't think Sony deserves a break either. They have to have their balls busted before they'll change or fix anything. When they clean up their act, quit being the most cocky and arrogant sons-of-bitches around, and make *decent* products without obscene pricetags, maybe they'll earn a bit of their old respect back. I've personally never own a Sony product that was worth the price.
 
Mark_Warner said:
I don't think Sony deserves a break either. They have to have their balls busted before they'll change or fix anything. When they clean up their act, quit being the most cocky and arrogant sons-of-bitches around, and make *decent* products without obscene pricetags, maybe they'll earn a bit of their old respect back. I've personally never own a Sony product that was worth the price.
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I have to agree with Mark on this one, pretty much sums up exactly how I feel as well. I couldn't help feel extorted at the idea that MGS and FF were going to be PS3 exclusives. Hopefully they will migrate to the 360.
 
I doubt the PS3 will get nearly the market share some predict. All I see every day is demand for it going down. It may pick up again this next week before X-Mas, but after that it wil continue to go down until Sony does something to fix some of the major problems with it(price, and lack of decent games mostly).

A few weeks ago I stopped at ShopKo mid day(I was bored and close by at the time) to see if they would possibly have a Wii in stock(ShopKo seems to always be the one with the least people watching, I have gotten a few things mid-day on launch day from them when it was sold out everywhere else). Sadly they didn't, but I did see a PS3 on the shelves...I just laughed a little and left.
 
I hope more and more developers leave Sony for good. It was a mistake ony Sony's part imo to include blue ray into the PS3. If it was optional like the HD-DVD drive from the 360 then the PS3 would be golden but its pricetag and availability is the number one cause of its downfall. On top of that, theres internet rumors going on that many developers aren't happy with Sony, particularly Konami as of lately and they might pull MGS4 out...I could be wrong but I figure these guys are in to make money...and they won't make money from a system that lacks availability right?
 
I walked into Toys R Us on Friday and was able to pick-up a 60GB PS3. No lines and no fuss. To be honest, it wasn't even my intention. I was planning on picking up my nephews a few gifts for Christmas and then my girlfriend said I should see if they had one of the new game consoles. So I did and they did and I'm sure my nephews will be happy. Shortages? What shortages! Merry Christmas!
:p
 
pgwalsh said:
I walked into Toys R Us on Friday and was able to pick-up a 60GB PS3. No lines and no fuss. To be honest, it wasn't even my intention. I was planning on picking up my nephews a few gifts for Christmas and then my girlfriend said I should see if they had one of the new game consoles. So I did and they did and I'm sure my nephews will be happy. Shortages? What shortages! Merry Christmas!
:p
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They would have had more fun with the Wii. :p



But anyways...who spends $600 on a gift for nephews!?!?!?

...wish I had a rich uncle like that...
 
That Sony is toast is old news.

Dateline Sep 27th, 2006 http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/17605

Here's a story of a company in trouble. Sure, you think you could help it by buying a new PS3 at the end of the year. But purchasing a PS3 this year could be the very thing that pushes Sony over the edge.

As a result, Sony is forecasting an $862 million operating loss for the current fiscal year. But that's going to seem like chicken feed, compared to the loss it's liable to see in 2007.

How much will Sony lose in the next 12 months? Let's count it up.

Sony plans on making 6 million PS3 units before April. Let's say that they sell every one of them at full retail price. With what we know about the materials price -- particularly the price of Blu-Ray players -- let's say that they will lose only $300 for every PS3 they sell.

6,000,000 x $300= $1.8 billion

Surely the discounts will come quickly, but they'll all be a drag on Sony's bottom line. Let's say Sony loses $400 on every box they sell. Here are the numbers:

6,000,000 x $400= $2.4 billion

That really starts taking a mammoth chunk out of Sony's cash. Add to that the half-billion dollars of free laptop batteries they've got to give out and the losses start approaching $3 billion.



IOW, the more PS3's Sony sells, the more money they lose.
 
How can you make up 1.8Bil in game licences, if none of the titles out now are any good, cept (resistancefallofman)?
 
jstnomega said:
IOW, the more PS3's Sony sells, the more money they lose.
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Frankly, you are incorrect. The more made PS3s Sony does not sell, the more money they lose. While I am not sure about your preferences, I'd rather lose $400 on a sold console with the possibility of making money on games, than lose $1000 and interest on a console that is not being sold.

IOW: the less PS3s Sony sells the more money they lose.
 
A friend and I stopped by Game Crazy to see if they had any ps3's in stock and the guy said they had a wait list about 14 people long. So we asked if there were any wii's in stock instead, and the guy just laughed harder and said the wait list for that was over 100 people long.

There are games I want to play on both systems, but cost of the ps3 is so prohibitive.
 
Well this is my 2 cents

Xbox 360 is a cool system yes but the hidden costs are through the roof in my opinion. Its Microsoft ppl they dont belive in gamers or ppl all they care about is the bottom line. If they did care maybe they would make a stable OS for once and not have it all programed in india ie=Vista

Also one thing about xbox 360 that sucks you can't upgrade the hard drives on the
PS3 you can and it doesn't viod the warrenty I enjoy my PS3 160 gig daily

PS3 ok yes they had a very bad start and well so did the PS2 if I remember. Back then I remember all the bad mouthing off DVD is not the standard format its too expensive. Nobody will support this and look now 6 years later and DVD is the standard. Now xbox 360 has HD DVD which if I remember is something Microsoft invented. PS3 has over 200 supporters of Blu-ray and MS has 3 supporters of HD DVD. But Microsoft will just throw gobs of money at the world to make it a standard. I belive by next xmas PS3 will be doing very well and when the RPG's come out for it in japan and USA it will sell like hot cakes.

Nintendo Wii. Well the wii is cool with its new controller most ppl dont know this but the wii is nothing new. Its nothing more then a Gamecube with a neat fancy controller. Zelda for the wii wow did you know you can buy the same zelda for the GameCube. Personaly I dont see my self playing Zelda on a wii because most of the time I would have to stand and play. With my bad back forget that I like to sit down and get into a game and thats how I play. I don't want to stand for 18 hours at once playing zelda.

Well thats my 2 cents
 
The XBOX 360's lineup for 2007 is godly. PS3 has a few, but MGS, GTA:4, etc are all being developed for 360. Not to mention Halo 3 which is going to crush anything the PS3 has imo. Microsoft has gotten everything almost perfect this time around. And I dont even own a 360 yet.

IMHO the only thing driving Sonys success so far is the Playstation brand name. Thats not enough to keep them on top.
 
I’ve seriously given up on Sony…..I used to be a loyal Sony buyer for years. Those bulletproof Trinitrons were built like Rolls Royces, and there was overall high quality build and performance for all their products. Now, QC and product development seems to have tanked and there’s little reason to pay the premium for most of Sony’s products these days. Before, you were buying a guarantee, and you knew you were getting the best and that it would last a long time. With the last few Sony things I’ve bought, the most they did was remind me of how much I miss the old Sony. The last straw for me was discontinuing the XBR960 TVs, then releasing the 970, which happens to be quite inferior. Either get out of the CRT business altogether, or quit releasing substandard products and passing them off as the latest greatest thing!

The gripes with the PS3 are all just a pattern of how Sony’s been doing business lately, in all their divisions. All video game consoles are business, but I can’t help but feel the PS3 has the least amount of pride and heart in their efforts. Yet, you get the overall sense that Nintendo executives believe in what they say, and probably love the Wii themselves, and play it at home as well….I wouldn’t be surprised. In fact, the whole concept was based on maximizing fun, and not maximizing making a buck at all costs. This isn’t just warranted only because the Wii is cheap. Even if the Wii cost $500, I’d still have a different opinion of it than I would the PS3.

Sony is its own worst enemy right now, and the image in mine and many others’ minds is that of an out-of-touch, greedy behemoth, ironically the image Microsoft has been fighting to break for years. Cultivating and using these perceptions to their advantage is the most sought-after aim in marketing departments, but can be the hardest thing to change when it turns negative. Many people are turned off by Sony and the PS3 right now, between the high prices, production issues, arrogant motivations for decision making, and apparent disregard for consumers. I still think the PS3 is going to sell decently eventually, but Sony needs to do much better than that in the long run if it doesn’t want the PS3 ultimately labeled as a “disappointment.” With the kinds of shortsighted and self-serving moves they've been making lately, it doesn't look likely. I just think they went about the whole thing the wrong way, and in fact the PS3 is only one piece of the puzzle that Sony's been blindly trying to put together without looking at what is on the pieces. From Blu-ray, the PSP, UMD, the PS3, the movies, and so on down the line, whatever Sony's business model is, it belongs in the trash.

If the Wii, Xbox360 and PS3 were actors, the Wii and Xbox would be Tom Hanks and Robin Williams, and the PS3 would be Tom Cruise hoppin’ on the couch.
 
The thing is that in todays world, the population is so massive that there are enough sheep to negate anything that is seemingly bad.
 
drizzt81 said:
Frankly, you are incorrect. The more made PS3s Sony does not sell, the more money they lose. While I am not sure about your preferences, I'd rather lose $400 on a sold console with the possibility of making money on games, than lose $1000 and interest on a console that is not being sold.

IOW: the less PS3s Sony sells the more money they lose.
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Exactly. Just like GM was losing money per vehicle sold. It's only "losing" in a certain sense of the word. They're "making more money" by selling units, no doubt. Don't let that hogwash get in your head that by buying one you're not doing them a favor... lol.
 
lycanwolf said:
Well this is my 2 cents

Xbox 360 is a cool system yes but the hidden costs are through the roof in my opinion. Its Microsoft ppl they dont belive in gamers or ppl all they care about is the bottom line. If they did care maybe they would make a stable OS for once and not have it all programed in india ie=Vista

Also one thing about xbox 360 that sucks you can't upgrade the hard drives on the
PS3 you can and it doesn't viod the warrenty I enjoy my PS3 160 gig daily
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This is not correct. You can't upgrade the HD with something off the shelf but there should be larger units available soon as MS pushes HD content in the market place. This is why the HD is detachable on the 360 in the first place.

lycanwolf said:
PS3 ok yes they had a very bad start and well so did the PS2 if I remember. Back then I remember all the bad mouthing off DVD is not the standard format its too expensive. Nobody will support this and look now 6 years later and DVD is the standard. Now xbox 360 has HD DVD which if I remember is something Microsoft invented. PS3 has over 200 supporters of Blu-ray and MS has 3 supporters of HD DVD. But Microsoft will just throw gobs of money at the world to make it a standard. I belive by next xmas PS3 will be doing very well and when the RPG's come out for it in japan and USA it will sell like hot cakes.
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Even at full production capacity it is estimated that Sony can't produce more than maybe 2 million more PS3s in 6 months. That will still put Sony way behind. If they keep losing exclusives it will be hard for them to sell there clearly more expensive system.

lycanwolf said:
Nintendo Wii. Well the wii is cool with its new controller most ppl dont know this but the wii is nothing new. Its nothing more then a Gamecube with a neat fancy controller. Zelda for the wii wow did you know you can buy the same zelda for the GameCube. Personaly I dont see my self playing Zelda on a wii because most of the time I would have to stand and play. With my bad back forget that I like to sit down and get into a game and thats how I play. I don't want to stand for 18 hours at once playing zelda.

Well thats my 2 cents
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I have logged 30+ hours in Zelda and have not needed to stand once. The control is incredibly comfortable and simple. I find i don't cramp up like I used to after long hours of play on a normal controller. The only Wii Game I own that requires me to stand is WiiSports, all of the following can be played while seated or even reclined: Zelda, Monkeyball, Rayman...

The graphics are not much better than the GC version that is for sure, however the Wii version contains some additional content not in the GC version.
 
lycanwolf said:
Now xbox 360 has HD DVD which if I remember is something Microsoft invented. PS3 has over 200 supporters of Blu-ray and MS has 3 supporters of HD DVD. But Microsoft will just throw gobs of money at the world to make it a standard.
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Short answer (quoted from here:
HD DVD discs can store up to 15GB on a single layer and up to 30GB on two layers. Its competitor, Blu-ray, can store up to 27GB per single layer as well as support a variety of additional features, including advanced copy-protection mechanisms, but Blu-ray discs are more expensive to produce. The HD DVD is pushed aggressively by Toshiba and NEC as well as being standardized at the DVD Forum, which represents over 230 consumer electronics, information technology, and content companies worldwide. Blu-ray is backed by Sony and Panasonic, the world’s No.1 and No.3 makers of electronics. Among Hollywood studios HD is supported by Warner Bros. Studios, New Line Cinema, Paramount Pictures and Universal Pictures, whereas Sony Pictures, Walt Disney and Twentieth Century Fox endorse Blu-ray.
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I'm perfectly content with my HD-DVD player.
 
I purchased both the wii and the PS3

The wii is for family fun and the PS3 is for grown up gamers that want more out of thier console.

The xbox is os ugly that it makes me want to vomit and i would not allow it in my living room.

Most of my gaming is on my pc the Sony will be used for family slide shows, light surfing and blue ray movies with an occasional game on my day off when i want to enjoy HD gaming ont a 57 inch TV. The Sony has alot of upside to me.

Regarding Blue Ray. You put 6 million Blue ray players into 6 million homes, combine that with the portfolio of Sony Pictures has and Blue ray will gain a significant foot hold. I suspect that you will see a 499.00 blue ray player from Panasonic if that occurrs and that will be check mate.
 
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