Someone finally got it right about the 360!

[masher]

If you build it they will come....but they don't always show up on launch day.

There are some great titles out already, and better ones on the way. The hardware is there; it just takes a little time.

 

[DukenukemX]

Here's a question, how responsible is a console company for the developers who publish the games?

Well seeing that Microsoft gets paid a license fee for every game that is sold on the Xbox 360 then I'm sure Microsoft will want to control the content.

After all if a publisher makes a game for the X360 there are certain quality requirements that Microsoft wants.

After all Microsoft can deny games to be made on the X360. Just like how Nintendo denies certain games to be made on the Game Cube.

Sure, MS has its own studios, but shouldn't the onus be on dev houses to come up with original and compelling reasons to purchase their software? Seems to me that MS has built a solid platform, but devs have dropped the ball.

Am I looking at this wrong?

Yes the X360 is a very solid platform. Despite it still being more difficult then the original Xbox. This leads to rising developer costs and of course subpar gameplay.

Of course the people with HDTVs who want to see pretty graphics aren't going to have a problem. The rest of us gamers who enjoy gameplay over graphics will be left out. Which again I'm seeing lots of people keep talking about graphics and less about gameplay.

The idea is that you're seeing the same games on the X360 with a minor graphics update. While PGR3 is nice it's still PGR2 with updated graphics. PDZ was ok but it's not in the league of say Quake 4, Halo 2, or F.E.A.R. That's pretty bad considering I would give all those games a 7 out of 10. The rest of the games are ports from other platforms.

I'm in no way bashing the X360. I'm simply looking at it's games. I'm not talking about PS2 ownz or GameCube for life and stuff. I'm just looking at the games that you can play on it.

To me games = graphics + gameplay. Not games = graphics which I'm seeing a lot in this thread.

 

[Erasmus354]

Added complexity does not necessarily mean subpar gameplay. The PS2 is more complex to develop for than the Xbox, yet its gameplay is just as good as every other console.

 

[DukenukemX]

The point I am trying to make is that it is nothing new for a console to be lacking blockbuster titles at launch, and that fact is hardly a sound reason to begin with the bashing this early. Give it some time, and if the games dont come THEN start with the bashing.

Really a console that came out without blockbuster games and succeeded?

I can't think of one. I know the NES, SNES, GENSIS, Playstation, N64, DC, Xbox, GC, and PS2 all had blockbuster titles when there were launched.

You see this works fine on the PC. If you build it then developers may use it. It sucks for PC owners because we can sometimes wait for years before someone actually makes a game that uses the technology. In the mean time we can always run yesterday's games with higher resolutions + AA + Ansi + more FPS. Kinda like how most of the games on the X360 are ports with the same upgrades.

This doesn't work for the console. If there aren't any games then it simply won't sell or shouldn't. Also what great games do you have to look forward too? Gears of War?

 

[Steve-o-man]

Something that has always irked me about games is that there is always innovation in graphics and sometimes someone goes out on a limb and does innovation on gameplay. But what always bugs me is the lack of innovation on creating NEW SERIES! Seriously, developers have been reheating the same series over and over since day one. Final Fantasy 29, Zelda Link's other Awakening, Mario Party 13, NFL 2k10, NBA 2k11, and now that Halo is popular I forsee that one being milked to death as well. Really, anymore it's not about making a new system for new games. Now it's become "Buy a new Xbox so you can play Madden 2009 and Halo 3!" Kameo has shown that it's not impossible to make good games that aren't pulled from a series, and Perfect Dark Zero shows that it is possible to revive forgotton series. I'm tired of buying a new system so I can play Dead or Alive 17, I want to see new games! Anymore they are using reheated games to sell these supposedly "next-gen" consoles. It's pointless! How many times can you reheat Final Fantasy? How many times can Link save Zelda? What happens when a series dies from too much reheating? What happens to gaming then? Unless we see some innovation on creating new series, gaming will die out: you can only play a series so many times.

 

[DukenukemX]

Added complexity does not necessarily mean subpar gameplay. The PS2 is more complex to develop for than the Xbox, yet its gameplay is just as good as every other console.

I don't know about you but gameplay has been going down a lot lately. Nearly all platforms are seeing a decrease in gameplay quality. Though graphics have been growing in proportion to how gameplay has decreased.

You'll know this when you enter a room and have no idea if you're in a new room because it looks just like the other rooms that you've been in. Then there's being in the same room over and over again. You know that was done to cut developement time and/or cost.

Hence why complexity can hurt gameplay.

 

[Circuitbreaker8]

And thats why I stick to racing games and online FPS

 

[Cannonbear]

i love my Xbox360, its really provided me with hours of entertainment that i just wasnt interested in with my PS2. NFS:MW is great, loosk gorgeous and when its running is a lot better looking then its xbox 1 counterpart. DOA4, while frustratingly hard is damn good looking and COD2 looks pretty good too. PGR had some amazing graphics (though i didnt enjoy the racing) and Kong really made me step back and just explore the environments. All this on a regular tv using the component connections, no HD for me yet.

the only problems i'd say are lag issues/voice echo on Live and not being able to create a game or join a server with friends easily in COD2, and heaven help anyone playin a round with more then 6 people. having to join a random game sucks even more because more often then not i get the "could not join game" message. Maybe theres a better way to join games but i havent found it. Also it's damn loud.

Is it nextgen? No not really, but it is a great system that has the potential to really offer some great games in the future, provided the developers take advantage of that.

Im just waiting for DOA:Xtreme Volleyball 2...

 

[Tetrahedron]

if x360 sucks because it does offer any good games.. then damn the PC should suck even more (not that i agree with the statement) because the PC has so suck ass games to offer.. I havent see anything truly revolutionary on any platform minus the DS in over 5 years now..

 

[LeviathanZERO]

you guys are funny. i see all this debate about graphics and gameplay, and this game sux because its current gen is better, and blah blah blah....

well, i bought my 360 for one game.

Ridge Racer 6.

graphics? innovation?

not the selling point. but it doesnt matter, its the first Ridge Racer since 1999. RRV came out as a launch title on PS2 and in my opinion it was the ONLY title worth purchasing. Madden sells systems, and is why the PS2 killed the Dreamcast. PS2 games did not get good until 2002, and they sold 100 million units.

The X360 launch lineup is light years better than was offered 6 years ago from Sony. But that doesnt matter, what does is whether the hardware manufactuer reads the market correctly. Sony sold PS2's the first year ONLY because of DVD playback. If you bought one for the games you only bought it for madden.

The first year the hardware sells itself. after that its all about the games. But like i said, it all has to do with the market. (in the X360's case, HD and 5.1 penetration)

So even though one can argue theres no games for the 360, it doesnt matter because its the only system on the market that does 720p and 5.1. Apparently theres a market for HD. (small, but still....) Just like back in 99' the PS2 was the only system with DVD playback. Do you really think the dreamcast would have died so quickly if it had DVD playback? Of course not.

So there you have it. Thats why X360 is sold out. There just happens to be a market for the systems exclusive (for the time being...) capabilities.

 

[Kahnvex]

One of the reasons we aren't seeing new series, and this is sad, is that the cost of entry into the games market is astronomical, and has been for a time. The coming of X360 and PS3 have only made it worse. We aren't seeing new series because your large developers won't back the game unless you give up your IP rights, or they simply won't take a chance because they know what people will buy, so they want more of that.

Cue the next WWII shooter, or the next Roster Upgrade in Sports Title 2007.

I'm hoping that what Nintendo says about wanting to generate grass roots games is true. To a certain extent, I know that it kind of is. We have a games development studio here in town that just received some Revolution Dev Kits, they say they are going to get started doing something next week when they have a rep to show them how they work. Thats exciting stuff.

Honestly, anybody who doesn't own the 360 really has no place saying anything about how bad the games suck. "I played it at my friends house" doesn't count either. Thats the beauty of the internet for you though.

The comment about all MS exclusives sucking, well, what a jackass really.
Crimson Skies, Halo, Top Spin, Amped, Fable, Links...Those are all examples of Games I own that don't suck, and are MS exclusives.

There have been plenty of MS exclusives that do suck, but they were a brand new studio without years and years of console experience, when they streeted the xbox and this was thier first time out. I hope you went crazy about the PS2 so early with it's launch and some of it's shitty initial exclusives. How about on the PS1 with the loads of crap that were produced for it for years and years. Talk all the shit you want, but you don't even own one, so whats all the bitching and moaning all about?

It's not like we grabbed your wallet, used your money to buy the system and games, and duck taped you to the chair, controller in hand, to play shitty titles for 12 hours a day.

 

[masher]

After all if a publisher makes a game for the X360 there are certain quality requirements that Microsoft wants....After all Microsoft can deny games to be made on the X360.

Are people actually so ignorant of law and business that they think Microsoft could actually block a game's release simply because it lacked "bling"?

 

[Erasmus354]

Are people actually so ignorant of law and business that they think Microsoft could actually block a game's release simply because it lacked "bling"?

It is Microsoft's console, they have the right to regulate who can make games for it. They dont have to freely give away the development tools to anyone who wants to make a game. When they let you get the dev kits, you have to agree to meet their criterion. For the 360 MS requires that all games support at least 720P, have 5.1 Audio, and use at least 2xAA.

 

[steviep]

I'm hoping that what Nintendo says about wanting to generate grass roots games is true. To a certain extent, I know that it kind of is. We have a games development studio here in town that just received some Revolution Dev Kits, they say they are going to get started doing something next week when they have a rep to show them how they work. Thats exciting stuff.

Really? Off topic, but which studio? That's interesting that a really small studio got a full blown dev kit!

Anyway, Kahnvex is one of the prime examples of how to intelligently bring up a point, and reason out why he made that point. EXCELLENT post, even if I may disagree with one or two points. Personally, nobody's going to get me to fork out $400 for what the X360 is right now. But offer me something that I really really want, and the money is yours. MS, you listening?

 

[DukenukemX]

Personally, nobody's going to get me to fork out $400 for what the X360 is right now. But offer me something that I really really want, and the money is yours. MS, you listening?

That's the idea. I mean if you saw the history of the orignal NES when it came to America they were worried it wouldn't succeed. When they released it in NY the people were just amazed by the games. It was stuff they never saw before.

Atari failed because they weren't releasing anything new. Both in graphics and gameplay. This created a period of poor game sales and video games went away like a fad.

This is what happens when something becomes too commercialized. By buying subpar games you promote subpar games to be made. After all it's a business and they are out to make money. Anything new and innovative will cost a great deal of money.

 

[ZX6Master]

I love the hypocrisy in threads like these.

In one corner we have Sony/Nintendo fans condemning the system as a failure because it wasn't launched with thirty AAA titles. Of course, these are the fans that put up with the N64 launch (What...two games and only one worth playing?), the Gamecube launch (A launch that's main draw was an average Star Wars game, a spin-off game with a character nobody really wanted to play as, and an aquatic racing game that wasn't half as good as the prequel that came years earlier).

Then there was the PS2, which was a joke by all accounts in the eight or so months that it took for Gran Turismo 3 to come out. Of course, they had Madden...but anyone with a Dreamcast could've been playing NFL2K1 with better graphics and more accessible gameplay online.

And worse of all, you have the PC fans claiming there aren't enough good games. That's funny, considering they spend upwards of $500 per year to play a handful of titles (Most of which end up being supreme let-downs anyways; Doom 3/Quake 4 much?)

 

[masher]

It is Microsoft's console, they have the right to regulate who can make games for it. They dont have to freely give away the development tools to anyone who wants to make a game. When they let you get the dev kits, you have to agree to meet their criterion. For the 360 MS requires that all games support at least 720P, have 5.1 Audio, and use at least 2xAA.

Microsoft cannot arbitrarily regulate that content, however. Not and avoid a lawsuit. If you meet the stated criteria, the game is approved.

The notion that Microsoft could examine finished titles and deny those with poor gameplay or bad artwork is simply nonsense.

 

[magoo]

BAH.......you guys are whining so loud I can hear you in my basement.......

risk/benefit,profit/loss,dont take too many chances too soon.

These guys have to recoup millions if not billions of initial investment.....thats why at launch they use tried and true concepts.....the innovation will come once two things are established......the system capabilities are well understood and the money is flowing in.

Like I said before.....I think the 360 rivals a solid computer gaming set-up right now.....it hasnt set any records.....but it sure is better than what came before it.(and the cost is very cheap compared to a build of the same quality)

Again, if you want to see something neat on a console.....look at Condemed. It surprisingly good.

 

[lesman]

Dude, this is a total Xbox360 flame thread. I respect the OP's opinion, but the fact that he has to try and back his opinion up with another opinion is rediculous....all the article is doing is bitching about that the graphics are only "marginally better" than current gen games.

Did it ever occur to this guy that most of these games are built OFF OF current gen stuff, just with pretty graphics weaved in? Look at the games coming out soon: Oblivion, Splinter Cell: Double agent, GEARS OF WAR! Those games aren't based of current gen crap, therefore it's an all-new slate, and if Gears of War looks "not much better than current gen" to ANYONE, then they seriously have a very bad eye problem...very bad!

Again, this guy's bitching about launch game graphics..games that are mostly counterparts to current gen crap. What about the revamped live? What about the media center functionality? The overall system-media compatibility? What about the demo downloads? The music videos? Developer interviews? Movie trailers? Game updates? Dashboard expandability? What about all that?

It seems the article is written by a guy badly burned by hype that he, as a proffessional, shouuld KNOW to avoid........

Looks like he didn't........

 

[Rich Tate]

I do have to agree with a point of Lesman's. Lets give it some time and then see what happens.

I really do believe this is going to be a great product with lots of great all around games.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

Atari failed because they weren't releasing anything new. Both in graphics and gameplay. This created a period of poor game sales and video games went away like a fad.

Atari Failed because of the many iterations of its console and the fact that allmost every other big company was making consoles that looked alike and played complete rip off games. They didnt just stop producing good content. The market was young then and just sucked as their were no rules or regulations.

 

[M4rk]

Like I've been saying again and again. What compelled you to buy a X360? It's good to see someone got some brass ones on today.

I didn't, I got mine for free. You can stop ganking now.