Some Core i7 Cooling Questions Addressed

Terry Olaes

Terry Olaes

I Used to be the [H] News Guy
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
4,646
FrostyTech has an article busting some myths about the new Core i7 processor socket (LGA-1366) and legacy HSFs. Looks like you’ll need to add some cash for a new heatsink in your Bloomfield upgrade budget.

1). Will current Intel socket 775 heatsinks fit on Intel socket 1366 motherboards?
Answer: No.
Click to expand...
 
At the same time my wallet crys, the nerd in me is excited to play with a new HSF!!
 
Anything but the stock craptastic push pins. I broke a mobo intalling a stock cooler.

I'll stick with Zalman. I'm sure they will have an appropriate flower-style HSF for the new platform.
 
Spectrum17 said:
Anything but the stock craptastic push pins. I broke a mobo intalling a stock cooler.

I'll stick with Zalman. I'm sure they will have an appropriate flower-style HSF for the new platform.
Click to expand...

Zalman mounting systems are god, I give them credit for that.
 
A heatsink is a heatsink. Its just a matter of getting it to fit on the socket.
 
I hope that ThermalRight comes out with a plate and mounting bracket for the TRUE. That heatsink should handle the heat no problem and I'd like to keep such an expensive HSF.
 
Oh goddammit. I finally have a heatsink that I absolutely love (Zalman CNPS9700 with speed control, quiet) and I have to replace it when I make my next major upgrade.

Typical. Every time I upgrade I have to toss the whole thing out and start from scratch. You'd think I get to keep some of the old parts. :rolleyes:
 
Serpico said:
Oh goddammit. I finally have a heatsink that I absolutely love (Zalman CNPS9700 with speed control, quiet) and I have to replace it when I make my next major upgrade.

Typical. Every time I upgrade I have to toss the whole thing out and start from scratch. You'd think I get to keep some of the old parts. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well I've practically been on notebooks for the longest time, so this doesn't even touch me! :D
 
I almost always buy boxed CPUs so I don't care about the change. :cool:
 
Serpico said:
Oh goddammit. I finally have a heatsink that I absolutely love (Zalman CNPS9700 with speed control, quiet) and I have to replace it when I make my next major upgrade.

Typical. Every time I upgrade I have to toss the whole thing out and start from scratch. You'd think I get to keep some of the old parts. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Actually, the C2D -> i7 is a relatively painless one. It is just mobo, CPU, heatsink, and RAM (if you aren't already running DDR3)

Many people I've seen do a P4 -> C2D upgrade have had to replace their mobo, CPU, heatsink, RAM, Video card, PSU, and either get IDE to SATA adapters or replace their hard drives. Now that is really starting from scratch.
 
You'll need 3 sticks of DDR3 to run triple channel :rolleyes:

Don't buy any DDR3 right now, wait until it's dirt cheap, comes in crazy speeds, and in 3 piece kits.

I bought 2x1GB DDR2 667 Geil around when Core 2 was coming out, and paid $220 for it.

I paid $29 after rebate for the memory in my sig...

The same deal'll happen with DDR3 - don't worry guys.
 
I agree with the other poster about thermalright, all they need to do is get a new mounting bracket and you should be good to go.
 
Nooooooooooooo! You mean my Scythe Ninja rev.A won't fit? The hell with that! I'm cutting holes in my mobo.
 
The "problem" is not the mounting, it would easy to whip out new brackets.

It is the fact that the actual contact area on the base of the cooler is not big enough to cover the entire top of the new chip. Nehalem has a quite a bit larger IHS.

Well maybe not that much bigger :p . But may cause problems with some heatsinks.

nehalembuild001fullcb9.jpg
 
I am sure the over sized heatsinks like the big typhoon and ultra extreme will fit, but with the dinky ones like the AC F7 pro, you'll be out of luck. Either way, we will make it fit:D

and I agree, aside from the ram, it will not be a brutal as the a-xp/p4 to a64/core2 upg in terms of having to change almost everything
 
colinstu said:
The "problem" is not the mounting, it would easy to whip out new brackets.

It is the fact that the actual contact area on the base of the cooler is not big enough to cover the entire top of the new chip. Nehalem has a quite a bit larger IHS.

Well maybe not that much bigger :p . But may cause problems with some heatsinks.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2424/nehalembuild001fullcb9.jpg
Click to expand...


C2D IHS = 28.5x28.5mm
i7 IHS = 32x35mm
TRUE Base = 40x42mm
C2Q Extreme TDP = 150W+
Goal i7 TDP = 130W

Not only is TRUE's base large enough to cover a i7 easily, it was designed for CPUs that have a higher TDP that what the average i7 should have. ThermalRight probably won't even change the TRUE, but will just add another mounting bracket to the package.
 
It doesn't matter to me because I am upgrading my entire system once i7 releases and I will retire this old rig until I find a new purpose for it. Bye bye Socket A...

But I hope you guys will able to get new mounting plates for your current heat sinks, those things are expensive but worth it everyone penny that the copper pipes are made out of.
 
colinstu said:
You'll need 3 sticks of DDR3 to run triple channel :rolleyes:

Don't buy any DDR3 right now, wait until it's dirt cheap, comes in crazy speeds, and in 3 piece kits.

The same deal'll happen with DDR3 - don't worry guys.
Click to expand...

While im no expert on DDR3 if it were triple data rate ram wouldnt it be TDR3 and not DDR3 - when we went from DDR to DDR2 we didnt have to double the ram.....

anyone else?
 
Well whether the heatsink manufacturers make adapters or not, it's not my decision :D

Yes, like messerchmidt said, I'm sure some of them will make adapters.

I'm really excited on how all this nehalem stuff will turn out, I'm not looking for an upgrade right now however - my current rig plays TF2 just fine :)
 
messerchmidt said:
I am sure the over sized heatsinks like the big typhoon and ultra extreme will fit, but with the dinky ones like the AC F7 pro, you'll be out of luck.
Click to expand...

The benefit of the AC Freezer series is that they use the stock mounting method, so you do not have to remove and tinker with your motherboard to install it. That is also why it can't work with LGA 1366 no matter what. However, they're cheap enough, that when a new socket comes along you can just buy another one and still come out ahead. ;) Arctic Cooling Freezer i7 Pro perhaps? :D
 
farfromhome said:
The benefit of the AC Freezer series is that they use the stock mounting method, so you do not have to remove and tinker with your motherboard to install it. That is also why it can't work with LGA 1366 no matter what. However, they're cheap enough, that when a new socket comes along you can just buy another one and still come out ahead. ;) Arctic Cooling Freezer i7 Pro perhaps? :D
Click to expand...

If you think about it, it is going to cost probably $10-$15 after shipping to get an adapter. If the entire heatsink only cost $20-$25 then you are just better off getting a whole new one. If you sell off the old one, the whole thing will probably be a wash either way.

My big want for an adapter for the TRUE is because I really like the heatsink and the only case it fits in is my main PC. So when my Q6600 gets retired to my server or media center, the TRUE won't be able to follow.
 
Lamont Cranston said:
While im no expert on DDR3 if it were triple data rate ram wouldnt it be TDR3 and not DDR3 - when we went from DDR to DDR2 we didnt have to double the ram.....

anyone else?
Click to expand...
No. DDR3 ram is still only sending two values per clock which is what DDR means.* The biggest performance related difference between DDR1, 2, and 3 is that the timings were progressively loosened to allow significantly higher clock rates on the memory bus.** The net result is that with the memory chips running at the same 200hmz clock speed (DDR1-400, DDR2-800, DDR3-1200(1600?))you get a modest increase in total memory throughput. You also get a somewhat higher maximum possible clock. DDR1 topped out at 250mhz (DDR1-500), DDR2 at 300 (DDR2-1200), while DDR3-2133 is the current king, but unlike the older two still has room to grow.

* SDR memory is what your p3/athlon-1000 used 7 years ago. QDR memory (4 bits of data sent per clock pulse) exists but has yet to be made commercially affordable. A situation unlikely to change until DDRX maxes out.

** Other changes to the signalling occured as well, but this pair has by far the largest impact on performance.
 
PS the need for ram in triples instead of doubles is completely unrelated to DDR2 vs DDR3. It comes from the fact that Bloobfield is designed with a tripple channel memory controller instead of a dual channel one like C2 chipsets or athlon64's. Intel will also be making a server version with a quad channel ram controller, and budget versions with only a dual channel controller (not until 2009). You don't have to run tripple channel with bloomfield anymore than you are required to run dual channel with current CPUs. You just take a performance hit in anything that's ram limited, and your CPU normally spends alot of time when it's theoretically at 100% waiting for data from memory; (or cthulu forbid, from disk).
 
DanNeely said:
PS the need for ram in triples instead of doubles is completely unrelated to DDR2 vs DDR3. It comes from the fact that Bloobfield is designed with a tripple channel memory controller instead of a dual channel one like C2 chipsets or athlon64's. Intel will also be making a server version with a quad channel ram controller, and budget versions with only a dual channel controller (not until 2009). You don't have to run tripple channel with bloomfield anymore than you are required to run dual channel with current CPUs. You just take a performance hit in anything that's ram limited, and your CPU normally spends alot of time when it's theoretically at 100% waiting for data from memory; (or cthulu forbid, from disk).
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you were implying this or not, but the triple channel controller is flexible enough to allow the older dual channel or even single channel modes depending on your setup.
 
I'll bet someone will come up with a vapor chamber adapter to accomdate LGA775 HSFs on a LGA1366 CPU.
 
DanNeely said:
No. DDR3 ram is still only sending two values per clock which is what DDR means.* The biggest performance related difference between DDR1, 2, and 3 is that the timings were progressively loosened to allow significantly higher clock rates on the memory bus.** The net result is that with the memory chips running at the same 200hmz clock speed (DDR1-400, DDR2-800, DDR3-1200(1600?))you get a modest increase in total memory throughput. You also get a somewhat higher maximum possible clock. DDR1 topped out at 250mhz (DDR1-500), DDR2 at 300 (DDR2-1200), while DDR3-2133 is the current king, but unlike the older two still has room to grow.

* SDR memory is what your p3/athlon-1000 used 7 years ago. QDR memory (4 bits of data sent per clock pulse) exists but has yet to be made commercially affordable. A situation unlikely to change until DDRX maxes out.

** Other changes to the signalling occured as well, but this pair has by far the largest impact on performance.
Click to expand...

DanNeely said:
PS the need for ram in triples instead of doubles is completely unrelated to DDR2 vs DDR3. It comes from the fact that Bloobfield is designed with a tripple channel memory controller instead of a dual channel one like C2 chipsets or athlon64's. Intel will also be making a server version with a quad channel ram controller, and budget versions with only a dual channel controller (not until 2009). You don't have to run tripple channel with bloomfield anymore than you are required to run dual channel with current CPUs. You just take a performance hit in anything that's ram limited, and your CPU normally spends alot of time when it's theoretically at 100% waiting for data from memory; (or cthulu forbid, from disk).
Click to expand...


I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking in terms of Wait States. Over clocking what we have now with DDR-2 is enough of a problem but cycles lost on DDR-3 forces me to think, there must be a better way.;)
 
DanNeely said:
[...] You don't have to run tripple channel with bloomfield anymore than you are required to run dual channel with current CPUs. You just take a performance hit in anything that's ram limited, and your CPU normally spends alot of time when it's theoretically at 100% waiting for data from memory; (or cthulu forbid, from disk).
Click to expand...

Yup, no matter how fast a processor you get, they all wait on memory at the same speed ;)

So if you replace motherboard and CPU before X-Mass [and pay a premium to do so], but run your old dual-channel DDR3 from Summer '08, is that really an upgrade?
brom42 said:
C2D IHS = 28.5x28.5mm
i7 IHS = 32x35mm
TRUE Base = 40x42mm
C2Q Extreme TDP = 150W+
Goal i7 TDP = 130W

Not only is TRUE's base large enough to cover a i7 easily, it was designed for CPUs that have a higher TDP that what the average i7 should have. ThermalRight probably won't even change the TRUE, but will just add another mounting bracket to the package.
Click to expand...
Intel's goal may be 130W, but what's your goal at target over-volt and over-clock? My E8400 has a design TDP of what, 65W? The particular chip I got clocks like a fiend on relatively low voltage - hopefully early i7 chips do too. I'd estimate my E8400 puts out about 118W fully loaded - so perhaps a 40+% OC i7 quad would scale similarly: 130W * 1.40% * over-volt^2 ...say 235 watts? I'm thinking i7 will be another game-change for overclocking, just like Core2 was different than P4.

TRUE 120 may be a great heat sink, but heat pipes have a saturation point. I've never seen a TRUE 120 tested at 200W, but I've seen plenty of lesser heat sinks saturate in the 90-150W range - take a look over at FrostyTech - lots of heat sinks do well at lower power, but hit a "wall" on the big synthetic load they use in the Intel Quad tests. So if you want to keep chasing the dragon's tail, you'll probably need a bigger HSF.
 
I have Q6600 with TRUE and when I replace my system in Q4 2009 or Q1 2010 I want to switch to watercooling anyway.

 
brom42 said:
Actually, the C2D -> i7 is a relatively painless one. It is just mobo, CPU, heatsink, and RAM (if you aren't already running DDR3)

Many people I've seen do a P4 -> C2D upgrade have had to replace their mobo, CPU, heatsink, RAM, Video card, PSU, and either get IDE to SATA adapters or replace their hard drives. Now that is really starting from scratch.
Click to expand...

Mobo, CPU, and RAM are enough for me to complain. :) Most mobos still have IDE slots. The move from AGP to PCI-E a few years ago did indeed suck. I was perfectly willing to keep my 6800GT but was forced to get a 7800GT with my new mobo. That said, PCI-E seems like it will be with us a long time.

So yeah, not getting to keep my current awesome HSF, boo. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top