So will AMD have a "7900" series out this Fall ?

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Zorachus

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Curious if AMD will refresh or launch an all new line of VideoCards this Fall ? Would guess it might be named the HD 7900 series ? Or maybe nVidia's GTX-680 series ? I am open to either brand. Over the years I have enjoyed both brands of cards in my PC's.

There are some BIG name titles releasing this Fall, that will be push the PC more than most games in a long while;

- RAGE
- BattleField 3
- SW: TOR
- Guild Wars 2
 
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6th quarter of 20132+. TSMC is having serious problems even getting to 28nm these days.
 
I Think we are looking at october or november before refreshes, but I would be surprised if not both nVidia and AMD have "New" cards out by christmas
 
I would just think that both AMD and nVidia would like to get some new high end cards to market around the time these next generation titles release. Would be great for business, and both companies have a good history of releasing new cards between Sept. - Dec.
 
There's only one game on that list you really need to worry about: Battlefield 3. And unfortunately, there's no indications of what the system requirements will be, only that they will be "similar" to BF:BC2. IF they are the same, then you should have no problems.

Every other game on that list is pointless to worry over. RAGE is the most console-optimized game in existence, and I doubt the PC version will push the limits of the midrange. Guild Wars 2 has been delayed a year now (with no public signs of life), so who cares? And the only game further seated in development hell than Guild Wars 2 is TOR. I'll be amazed if they both ship this year.

But you might want something more powerful if you're hooked on Eyefinity for gaming. The thing is, none of the cards scheduled for release soon are going to be a huge performance increase; they're just expected to be die shrinks. So you might be better-off buying a pair of unlockable 6950s and run CrossFire.
 
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I'm just wondering if the new high end single GPU card (7970?) is going to trump the 6990 and if so by how much..... and if now is the time to sell my 6990 if that's going to be the case...
 
Zorachus said:
I game at 5760x1200res across my triple 27" monitors, so will for sure need more horsepower to run BattleField3, and SW;ToR will be a beast to run at that res, the graphics are pretty bad ass for an MMO;
http://betacake.blogspot.com/2011/07/star-wars-old-republic-alderaan-beta.html
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Those are pretty crappy for being so bad-ass. The textures are low-res, the geometry is not very complex and about the only advanced facet of the engine is the real-time shadowing.

Hey, Portal 2 just upgraded Source engine to real-time shadowing :D

In fact, Portal 2 has about the same (or slightly higher) graphics quality as this, and you can max it out 1080p on, what, a 5770? Your 5870 should have plenty of power for 3x that resolution.

Nobody in their right mind would release an MMO with insane graphics requirements...not after Everquest 2 faltered under the much simpler graphics of WoW.
 
IMO Nvidia will soft launch Kepler Q4 with a higher end model and bring the full rollout in Q1 to fill in the gaps.

AMD will paper launch a 7800 series or lower first and ramp it up to full production as fast as TSMC can handle it and drop a 7900 series later.

Neither company can afford to mishit on 28nm but they both don't need to launch a full top to bottom revision of their offerings unless the yields are good since at the highend the gtx590 and the 6990 will still handle everything fine in the mean time.

Both companies next gen products have to surpass the current ones and be more efficient to stay inside of OEMs thermal/power designs and rushing out 28nm on a highend configuration isn't likely compared to starting off on a midrange model like AMD has done for the last few years and for Nvidia to not repeat the GTX480 stumbling points it has to refine the process as much as possible until it is pressed by AMD or the yeilds allow it to launch a halo product that could force AMD's hand for a 7900.

Nvidia also has until very recently had lower memory configurations as compared to AMD so the more time that passes the more likely Nvidia can afford to standardize on a 2GB-3GB so Nvidia wont rush a part out if it wants to regain better price to perforamnce ratios and margins and AMD will only push a 7900 series if Nvidia comes out of the gates dominating, otherwise it will wait so production can ramp up.
 
NukeDukem said:
I'm just wondering if the new high end single GPU card (7970?) is going to trump the 6990 and if so by how much..... and if now is the time to sell my 6990 if that's going to be the case...
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That's what I wonder also. I doubt it, but it would be awesome if it does outperform the 6990. Two of these in crossfire would be insane!
 
So far the most reliable info we have says that AMD's new card will launch sometime around late August early September and Nvidias new card will launch around May 2012.

that being said the info on nvidias looks pretty reliable and is coming from several diiferent good sources. the info on on AMD's launch is less trustworthy but given how far ahead they of Nvidia development wise it's not unreasonable to believe that it may be correct and from a business stand point if AMD can get new cards out that far ahead Nvidia basically recreating the same situation we had with the 5000 vs 400 series gpu's I can't see any reason why they wouldn't.

That being said my gut feeling is that like a previous poster said AMD will launch in August/September with the successor(s) to the 6870 and 6850 and then fill out the high end models in q4 2011/q1 2012. that being said that wouldn't be a bad thing since hypothetically your looking at 2x 6870 gpu power on a single chip which would still make it the fastest single gpu card by a huge margin and assuming it's priced around where the 6870 was at release thats some amazing performance per dollar.

Also im willing to bet that this next crop of gpu's will just be die shrunk versions of the current architectures (not that that's a bad thing) from each company. I know alot of people have been quoting that Andantech article about AMD new GPUN architecture but if you read the article instead of just skimming it you will see that that arch is on track for 2013 which means that it is what AMD is planning to throw up against maxwell not keppler.
 
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Zorachus said:
I would just think that both AMD and nVidia would like to get some new high end cards to market around the time these next generation titles release. Would be great for business, and both companies have a good history of releasing new cards between Sept. - Dec.
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I guess it depend's on how well current gpu's can handle these new titles to see how long both companies have before we need a refresh.

Maybe Nvidia wan't to be first out the gate this round?
 
kinjo said:
So far the most reliable info we have says that AMD's new card will launch sometime around late August early September and Nvidias new card will launch around May 2012.
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That is all bullshit.


kinjo said:
Also im willing to bet that this next crop of gpu's will just be die shrunk versions of the current architectures (not that that's a bad thing) from each company. I know alot of people have been quoting that Andantech article about AMD new GPUN architecture but if you read the article instead of just skimming it you will see that that arch is on track for 2013 which means that it is what AMD is planning to throw up against maxwell not keppler.
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If you had actually paid attention while reading the article, you would have different ideas :p

and I'll take you up on your bet
 
defaultluser said:
But you might want something more powerful if you're hooked on Eyefinity for gaming. The thing is, none of the cards scheduled for release soon are going to be a huge performance increase; they're just expected to be die shrinks. So you might be better-off buying a pair of unlockable 6950s and run CrossFire.
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Not really. Some people prefer to do it with less cards/gpus. A 6990 is like the minimum requirement for playable hi/max 5760x1200 gaming. I'd prefer it in a single card and single gpu. Hopefully the 7970 fits the bill. Not because of that, but CF+EF is hit or miss for some games. So we'll have less issues with a single gpu.
 
Man I hate these threads when the fanboyism starts seeping into the cracks ;p
Honestly, just look at the times between launches for the last 3 gens, and then plot out the obvious for the next gen. I am pretty sure everyone expects Q4 launches or paper launches of new cards.
 
undermined said:
IMO Nvidia will soft launch Kepler Q4 with a higher end model and bring the full rollout in Q1 to fill in the gaps.

AMD will paper launch a 7800 series or lower first and ramp it up to full production as fast as TSMC can handle it and drop a 7900 series later.

Neither company can afford to mishit on 28nm but they both don't need to launch a full top to bottom revision of their offerings unless the yields are good since at the highend the gtx590 and the 6990 will still handle everything fine in the mean time.
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After the 480 fiasco Nvidia would have to be insane to repeat a rollout of 28nm without using middle range cards to perfect the process. AMD already figured this out, so I expect you are right on the 7800 series or lower.
 
I would like to see nVidia release an "Eyefinity" style driver on their next gen. To game across triple monitors on a single card. Is that a possibility, or no way ?

My pipe dream is to see either AMD or nVidia release a driver to allow P+L+P mode gaming, gaming across a 20" in Portrait + 30" in Landscape + 20" in Portrait.
 
rUmX said:
Not really. Some people prefer to do it with less cards/gpus. A 6990 is like the minimum requirement for playable hi/max 5760x1200 gaming. I'd prefer it in a single card and single gpu. Hopefully the 7970 fits the bill. Not because of that, but CF+EF is hit or miss for some games. So we'll have less issues with a single gpu.
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not going to happen.. you won't see a huge performance change until the new redesigned gpu comes out in 2012 which won't have the VLIW architecture. there will be a performance bump with southern island but theres no way the 7970 will out perform the 6990, hell the 6970 didn't even outperform the 5970 and the 5870 didn't out perform the 4870x2 and same goes with the 4870 vs 3870x2. so to think AMD will release a single card that out performs the 6990 while staying within the power requirements they want to stay in ain't going to happen. if the 6990 had been neutered to hell like the GTX 590 was with no overclocking then it could of been possible but it wasn't. if AMD wanted to pull a nvidia and throw power usage to the wind they could probably make a single gpu card that could out perform the 6990 but its just pointless to even try.


Zorachus said:
I would like to see nVidia release an "Eyefinity" style driver on their next gen. To game across triple monitors on a single card. Is that a possibility, or no way ?

My pipe dream is to see either AMD or nVidia release a driver to allow P+L+P mode gaming, gaming across a 20" in Portrait + 30" in Landscape + 20" in Portrait.
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i think the problem is more of the games supporting it then the drivers. but either way its just a shit ton more work for both companies to even put all those code variables into their drivers that neither company have the man power to even bother doing it. will it ever happen? possibly, but i don't see it happening anytime soon.
 
I don't see why Nvidia wouldn't support triple display output on their next cards. What they have now is a reaction to AMD, the 4xx/5xx chips are almost the same and triple displays are done in software. I just wonder if NV will require Displayport like AMD.
 
rUmX said:
I don't see why Nvidia wouldn't support triple display output on their next cards. What they have now is a reaction to AMD, the 4xx/5xx chips are almost the same and triple displays are done in software. I just wonder if NV will require Displayport like AMD.
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if they want to save money they will go with displayport also comes down to how hot their cards end up being because putting 3 DVI ports on a single card takes a crap load of real estate on the back of the card to put vents in.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
not going to happen.. you won't see a huge performance change until the new redesigned gpu comes out in 2012 which won't have the VLIW architecture. there will be a performance bump with southern island but theres no way the 7970 will out perform the 6990, hell the 6970 didn't even outperform the 5970 and the 5870 didn't out perform the 4870x2 and same goes with the 4870 vs 3870x2. so to think AMD will release a single card that out performs the 6990 while staying within the power requirements they want to stay in ain't going to happen. if the 6990 had been neutered to hell like the GTX 590 was with no overclocking then it could of been possible but it wasn't. if AMD wanted to pull a nvidia and throw power usage to the wind they could probably make a single gpu card that could out perform the 6990 but its just pointless to even try.
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You kinda have it mixed up. The 6970 didn't outperform the 5970 since they are on the same process. No 40nm card can or will beat a 5970. Even a 580 can't (outside of tessellation). A 7970 may not beat it as we're hitting a memory bandwidth ceiling (they really need to bring out the next gen GDDR) but it could come within 10-15%.

The 5870 on launch didn't beat the 4870x2 but it came very close. VLIW5 was getting long in the tooth and becoming less efficient which is why the 5870 despite being a complete doubling of the 4870 cannot beat a 4870x2. Today, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5870 beat a 4870x2 due to driver improvements and optimizations.
 
I have the 5870 running my Eyefinity setup, reason I bought the single card, was it was basically the same performance as the dual card beast 4870X2. Where as the 6970 was just a minor refresh of the 5870. So I would expect a true next gen 7970 single crad would be equal to the dual 6990 ?

For me, there is really no point in going from a 5870 to 6970, for what, 20% increase performance ? I only upgrade once the performance upgrade is at least 50% better than what I am currently running.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
if they want to save money they will go with displayport also comes down to how hot their cards end up being because putting 3 DVI ports on a single card takes a crap load of real estate on the back of the card to put vents in.
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Amd backed DP and as a format it covers all they need to do well, unfortunately alot of new monitors still don't have a DP port and needing the active adapter on 5xxx series and early 6xxx for eyefinity if you didn't have a DP lcd.

They could just as easily connected up another Dvi port or used hdmi within the architecture to have avoided these issues, but DP is ace for more than 3 screens - there is a dongle for 3 screens per mini-dp port so the obvious throughput advantage plays a roll here.

There are 6xxx cards that don't need DP for eyefinity, i know at least some of the new 6770's are like this.
 
Zorachus said:
I have the 5870 running my Eyefinity setup, reason I bought the single card, was it was basically the same performance as the dual card beast 4870X2. Where as the 6970 was just a minor refresh of the 5870. So I would expect a true next gen 7970 single crad would be equal to the dual 6990 ?
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This next generation of graphics cards is a pretty big deal for both companies in terms of improvement. I mean jumping two process nodes is one hell of an improvement. It is a possibility that a 7970 might match a 6990, not a very probable possibility but it is definitely out there.
 
e-geek said:
They could just as easily connected up another Dvi port or used hdmi within the architecture to have avoided these issues, but DP is ace for more than 3 screens - there is a dongle for 3 screens per mini-dp port so the obvious throughput advantage plays a roll here.
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Unfortunately, those hubs are too restricted right now to be of use for us gamers with a max resolution of 3840x1024 (1280x1024 per monitor) :(

I actually plan on upgrading the computer with the next AMD/Intel/Nvidia refresh...the next 6 months or so should start to get interesting.
 
Naieve said:
After the 480 fiasco Nvidia would have to be insane to repeat a rollout of 28nm without using middle range cards to perfect the process. AMD already figured this out, so I expect you are right on the 7800 series or lower.
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I don't think the AMDmethod of midrange first then higher-end is parts later is how Nvidia operates.

For the last few years or even as far as I remember Nvidia always launches a High-end card that is the halo product for the series and either renames a re-spun or slightly updated lower end card to fill in the gaps.

It really will come down to how modular their approach is cause If they perfect a high-end model they can bin it for yields or disable cores/shaders/etc. to make lower end parts.

The gtx480 was a design mess to implement on 40nm but the design work made a powerful chip and the gtx580 and all the fermi offshoots are good performers now so it isn't like their strategy was unsound, it was more a matter or TSMC lied and Nvidia was too proud or too committed to do much but keep tweaking until the work became viable.

I think of it like the pentium4 netburst situation except Nvidia didn't have a separate team working on the Core architecture and the G80 was total bump-gate so they didn't have a choice probably.

AMD IMO had leeway since AMD buying them meant cash to advance current designs but if they didn't have the fastest single card it wouldn't look as bad and it wouldn't hurt them if they took their time making profitable mid-range and low-end cards until 40nm was giving them good yields.

Granted Nvidia is much stronger now with cash from Tegra design wins flowing but I don't think it is their style to do a mid-range or lower-end part just to perfect their process since they have been doing nothing but accessing the shortcomings and with the gtx580 and gtx590 out and a pretty new 550 and 560 they will milk them instead of playing the undercut game with AMD for the mid-rang and low-end.

Still I really wanted to do a SandyBridge-E Socket 2011 Kepler build this fall myself but everything current gen is so fast I'll wait until IvyBridge and by then it will be a Windows 8 build with refreshed Gpu lines too cause SWTOR isn't gonna break a mid-range 6950 or 560ti but the refreshes in 2012 will be the first year of DirectX11 being the norm and if were lucky a bump from both Nvidia and AMD for Windows 8 and we'll finally be back on a 6month cycle.

Until them unless 120hz 2560x1440 gets real cheap fast we'll all be ok in most games and even 3x1080.

I'd love AMD to shock the world and Drop both Bulldozer and a 7900 series this fall and have it destroy the field but the incentive isn't there to do both with current gen games or the coming fall launches were as by 2012 we might finally see DirectX 11 games need more than 4 cores and killer GPU's again.
 
Mungojerrie said:
This next generation of graphics cards is a pretty big deal for both companies in terms of improvement. I mean jumping two process nodes is one hell of an improvement. It is a possibility that a 7970 might match a 6990, not a very probable possibility but it is definitely out there.
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just because they are going from 40nm to 28nm doesn't automatically mean they gain 50% performance which is what they would need to do to match a 6990. you have to change the entire architecture to actually get a performance boost like that which in this case is why they plan to get rid of the VLIW architecture after the southern island gpu's come out.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
just because they are going from 40nm to 28nm doesn't automatically mean they gain 50% performance which is what they would need to do to match a 6990. you have to change the entire architecture to actually get a performance boost like that which in this case is why they plan to get rid of the VLIW architecture after the southern island gpu's come out.
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I'm aware of that, but going from 40nm to 28 nm will certainly help. I mean it's not like they've been sitting on their asses and are going to just throw some more shaders on the Northern Islands architecture.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
just because they are going from 40nm to 28nm doesn't automatically mean they gain 50% performance which is what they would need to do to match a 6990. you have to change the entire architecture to actually get a performance boost like that which in this case is why they plan to get rid of the VLIW architecture after the southern island gpu's come out.
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It could be on par with the 4890 - 5870 leap, depending on how aggressive they are with the spec's of the card, 50% is a big ask considering clock speeds won't be raised to unimaginably higher speeds from a 40nm - 28nm drop.

Realistically they will probably just cram more shaders/rops etc. into the space they gain from a die shrink and run at a higher core frequency, who knows how advanced the architecture will be from current gen - it might have 1/2 the shaders but run 30% faster. All just a guessing game, patterns suggest a die shrink + more shaders + frequency boost + reorganisation/prioritisation of the architecture.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
you have to change the entire architecture to actually get a performance boost like that which in this case is why they plan to get rid of the VLIW architecture after the southern island gpu's come out.
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I thought southern islands was getting rid of VLIW itself, not after.
 
That's_Corporate said:
I thought southern islands was getting rid of VLIW itself, not after.
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That was my impression as well. I thought VLIW was sticking around for the next fusion processor but all discrete cards were Graphics Core Next or whatever. I have no source on this one : P
 
Mungojerrie said:
That was my impression as well. I thought VLIW was sticking around for the next fusion processor but all discrete cards were Graphics Core Next or whatever. I have no source on this one : P
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VLIW 4 will be used for the next round of APUs and probably the lower end spectrum of the 7xxx series. If they moved the entire selection of 7xxx cards to GCN, they they wouldn't have that Hybrid Crossfire that makes the APUs look that much more attractive to end users.
 
Ati already has a 7xxxx part out the 7450 with GDDR5 in a dell vostro 3350 laptop.

The following options are default selections included with your order

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...s2&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&model_id=vostro-3350

Vostro 3350 FT 35D
No Mobile Broadband
4GB DDR3 at 1333MHZ, 1 DIMM
320GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
13GB/sec AMD RadeonTM HD 7450M graphics with 160 cores+ ultra-fast GDDR5 memory
Aberdeen Silver
13.3 inch High Definition LED Display (1366 x 768) with anti-glare
8-CELL Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Intel WiFi 1030 802.11 b/g/n/BT3.0 Combo
Aberdeen Silver WIFI
8X DVD+/-RW with double-layer DVD+/-R write capability, Roxio and Cyberlink PowerDVD™ DX 9.5
Fingerprint Reader with DigitalPersona software
Backlit Keyboard with Gesture Touchpad
Integrated 1.0 MP HD Webcam and Digital Array Mic with Dell? Webcam Central
Bottom Base DVD
90 Watt AC Adapter with cord wrapping
 
found this article to be very interesting, especially the author covering some of the PR tactics used in the industry and how nvidia's recent responses may hint trouble.
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/07/05/nvidias-kepler-comes-in-to-focus/

havent really followed rumors in the tech industry, not sure if this author is truly objective or not, seems to be reasonable, what do you guys think?

for those of the guys that are more knowledgeable of the technical aspects of the videocard, does the author's projections and the stuff about telsa and fermi sound reasonable? i can never understand the shader counts and all that stuff... but from the tone of the author it seems like nvidia's 'leaks/responses' are kind of overstating something or just directing attention towards their strength. but hey doesnt all PR do that.

man i was hoping to get a kepler cards this christmas... the amd top range cards are too long for my stormscout case
 
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needmorecarnitine said:
That is all bullshit.





If you had actually paid attention while reading the article, you would have different ideas :p

and I'll take you up on your bet
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I did and what im saying is not bull shit it is the most current information we have from anything that is even closelyresembles a reliable source and if you had been smart enough to actually read what I wrote before responding you would see that I clearly stated that the info on AMD is not 100% reliable just the best we have to go on. and as far as the Nvidia info go's that straight from Kyle in another thread here and he is about as reliable a source as you can get.

but hey if you really wan't to bet that AMD is going to do somthing as crazy as trying a brand new Architecture and a brand new fab proccess at them same time ill take that bet anyday :)
 
kinjo said:
I did and what im saying is not bull shit it is the most current information we have from anything that is even closelyresembles a reliable source and if you had been smart enough to actually read what I wrote before responding you would see that I clearly stated that the info on AMD is not 100% reliable just the best we have to go on. and as far as the Nvidia info go's that straight from Kyle in another thread here and he is about as reliable a source as you can get.
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I did read what you posted. You claimed the most reliable source. For AMD, that is wrong. As for Nvidia, I did not see Kyle's comment. Post a link to it because your comments don't seem trustworthy from I have seen of your comprehension so far.


kinjo said:
but hey if you really wan't to bet that AMD is going to do somthing as crazy as trying a brand new Architecture and a brand new fab proccess at them same time ill take that bet anyday :)
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Yeah, why are you trying to change the bet? This is what you posted:


kinjo said:
Also im willing to bet that this next crop of gpu's will just be die shrunk versions of the current architectures...
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needmorecarnitine said:
I did read what you posted. You claimed the most reliable source. For AMD, that is wrong. As for Nvidia, I did not see Kyle's comment. Post a link to it because your comments don't seem trustworthy from I have seen of your comprehension so far.





Yeah, why are you trying to change the bet? This is what you posted:
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wow you really can not read can you. it says right in my post that the infor on amd is not that reliable. I did say its the best we have which is true but I never said it was a great source.

as far as kyles post go's ill have to dig it up it was in the nvidia gpu forum in response to someone asking about the next nvidia series as soon as I get a minute to hunt it down ill post a link.

and as far as changing the bet im not at all I said that I do not believe that AMD will use a new architecture for their next set of gpu's and I still believe that. it makes no sense at all for them to try to do a new fab process I.E 28nm and a new architecture I.E GPUNext so yeah im making the same bet I did in my first post 7000 series will be a die shrunk version of VLIW4 with a few tweaks 8000 series will be GPUNext.

Time may prove me wrong but thats where my money is:)
 
kinjo said:
wow you really can not read can you. it says right in my post that the infor on amd is not that reliable. I did say its the best we have which is true but I never said it was a great source.
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You started off by saying the most reliable info we have which I said was bullshit. Its bullshit because the most reliable info is from Rick Bergman at AMD who said "later this year." Just like your story about Kyle and March 2012. He said "I would not expect to see it in retail before next year.", directly from your link.



kinjo said:
Time may prove me wrong but thats where my money is:)
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Who is going to take you up on your bet seeing how you act here? Instead of saying "I really meant this" or saying that you are sorry, you call me stupid and say that I can't read. YOU are the one who can't read.
 
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