So is ATI's card due to be released in November supposed to oust the 8800gtx?

...............ppl. need to quit making threads about this crap, it is all speculation until the product is released or AMD make an official announcement, even then I'd wait for decent reviews....but since you ask, YES :rolleyes:
 
mitcity22 said:
...............ppl. need to quit making threads about this crap, it is all speculation until the product is released or AMD make an official announcement, even then I'd wait for decent reviews....but since you ask, YES :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Wow, a whole, complaint-filled paragraph just to say Yes.

Verbose are we? ;)
 
blah blah blah blah blah= the amount of information this thread will generate for you.
 
anybody else read the recent CPU magazine about how intel has plans to start making gpus as well, stating that the price of a modern day gpu is way too high. they are looking to come out with high end cards at the current mid-range budget, I have a feeling next year will be fun indeed :) (Page 100 in Nov'07)
 
Anybody read that article about Creative Labs soon to be defunct because of how sound cards have become a commodity on most computers nowadays?

If Intel and AMD start making great video cards at cheaper prices we might seen Nvidia take a dump as well. I appreciate what Nvidia has done for the graphics industry but enough is enough with these overpriced cards that basically only do graphics.
 
Spoudazo said:
So is ATI planning on beating the 8800gtx around November?
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RV670 I don't know. It's supposed to only cost $200-250, so that would be quite a feat. I'm expecting somewhere between GTS and GTX performance. The model with 2 RV670 chips on one card, should most definitely beat an 8800GTX. Although I don't think that one is coming until 1st quarter '08. :confused: It's hard keeping the rumors straight.
 
Imbroglio said:
anybody else read the recent CPU magazine about how intel has plans to start making gpus as well, stating that the price of a modern day gpu is way too high. they are looking to come out with high end cards at the current mid-range budget, I have a feeling next year will be fun indeed :) (Page 100 in Nov'07)
Click to expand...

That's been known for a while, and I seriously doubt we will see anything above mid range from Intel initially -- high end is not where the money is made, and they have nothing at all to prove. They aren't expected to start releasing new GPUs (beyond the usual onboard stuff) until 2009 anyway.
 
Imbroglio said:
anybody else read the recent CPU magazine about how intel has plans to start making gpus as well, stating that the price of a modern day gpu is way too high. they are looking to come out with high end cards at the current mid-range budget, I have a feeling next year will be fun indeed :) (Page 100 in Nov'07)
Click to expand...


I didn't read the article but I agree that GPU's are way too expensive.
 
well of course they are planning on beating the 8800gtx...whether or not they will is a different story. Also consider the anouncement on the front page today the G92 based cards have been moved up, they will be available in november. So even if the x2900 refresh (x2950) is faster than the 8800 series nvidia will still be king because it will have the 9800 series... but then again the 9800 series could be the next fx5800 (pos) so we really wont know until it all happens.
 
I remember when "top of the line" cost only $300. Geforce 1 DDR. $500 and up for something that gets outdated so quickly is a hard pill to swallow.
 
King_Weaver said:
well of course they are planning on beating the 8800gtx...whether or not they will is a different story. Also consider the anouncement on the front page today the G92 based cards have been moved up, they will be available in november. So even if the x2900 refresh (x2950) is faster than the 8800 series nvidia will still be king because it will have the 9800 series... but then again the 9800 series could be the next fx5800 (pos) so we really wont know until it all happens.
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You need to read a bit closer before grossly misinforming folks. . .

G92 is not the nvidia 9800 series. Unless there's been some major misinformation floating around via several reports, It's a mid-range solution and will be called the 8800gt. It should perform around the 8800gts level (some disagree whether above or below). But, the point is that this is not the "next generation" of nvidia cards. The 8800gtx/ultra will remain the top sku for nvidia.
 
I think ATI is gonna pull something similar to the X1k vs 7series:

R520 = R600. Late and, in this case, underperforming.
R580 = R680. Came (comes) out before Nvidia refresh, and outperformed the current top SKU from NV (guesstimation).

Seems to me ATI really had a bunch of things going for it with the R600 architecture. Hopefully with this extra couple months of tweaking, ATIs done some good.
 
Hurin said:
You need to read a bit closer before grossly misinforming folks. . .

G92 is not the nvidia 9800 series. Unless there's been some major misinformation floating around via several reports, It's a mid-range solution and will be called the 8800gt. It should perform around the 8800gts level (some disagree whether above or below). But, the point is that this is not the "next generation" of nvidia cards. The 8800gtx/ultra will remain the top sku for nvidia.
Click to expand...

first of all your right i did misread what the G92 is said to be on the front page, i made this mistake because for last month or so alot of people (including myself) were under the impression that the g92 was in fact what was previously known as the g90 (9800 series) so when i saw it had been moved up I got excited...second I did not grossly misinform anyone. I was mildy mistaken most of my statement was still true, of course ati is shooting to dethrone nvidia WHY WOULDNT THEY?? again as to wether or not that will happen WE DONT KNOW. Wether or not he g92 (whatever it is) is going to be good WE DONT KNOW. So NO I did not grossly misinform anyone. Maybe YOU should think more before you make grossly rude comments!...ill await my forum ban notice for this, I appologize to the original poster for screwing up your thread btw.
 
Stereophile said:
I remember when "top of the line" cost only $300. Geforce 1 DDR. $500 and up for something that gets outdated so quickly is a hard pill to swallow.
Click to expand...

Agreed, when I got my 9800Pro which was top of the line at the time, it too was $300. High end video cards have been overpriced for a looong time now. Not only do they start out high, but it seems like the prices don't drop nearly as fast as they use to... Maybe its partly due to the fact that there is currently no competition in the high-end segment. Hopefully that changes sooner rather than later.
 
Imbroglio said:
anybody else read the recent CPU magazine about how intel has plans to start making gpus as well, stating that the price of a modern day gpu is way too high. they are looking to come out with high end cards at the current mid-range budget, I have a feeling next year will be fun indeed :) (Page 100 in Nov'07)
Click to expand...

Who are they to claim that? They price high end CPU's at $1,000...
 
fdiaz78 said:
I didn't read the article but I agree that GPU's are way too expensive.
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Because CPU's are so much more reasonbly priced? Also, do you thinks a GPU is any cheaper to produce?

The market demand (what the average person will pay) determines all pricing. It's not just random figures.

Economics 101.
 
Current rumors are:

8800GT and possibly new 8800GTS = Oct 29 release
RV670 / HD2950Pro/XT = Nov 19
Dual RV670 Card aka R680 = Q1 '08

Next Nvidia high end (8900GTX/9800GTX/whatever you call it) = ? (some still say end of this year, others say they're waiting on ATI to make the next move and are eyeing a Q1 08 release)
 
Only solid info we have is nVidia promising a 1 teraflop card in 07.

I have heard no other reliable scource confirming they totally missed the mark, and their production line was crippled unitl 08.

We must take nVidia at their word. We have no reason not to.
 
Sr7 said:
Because CPU's are so much more reasonbly priced? Also, do you thinks a GPU is any cheaper to produce?

The market demand (what the average person will pay) determines all pricing. It's not just random figures.

Economics 101.
Click to expand...

Then in life you realize that market demand doesn't determine all pricing. Recall DDR2 pricing lulz.
 
King_Weaver said:
first of all your right i did misread what the G92 is said to be on the front page, i made this mistake because for last month or so alot of people (including myself) were under the impression that the g92 was in fact what was previously known as the g90 (9800 series) so when i saw it had been moved up I got excited...second I did not grossly misinform anyone. I was mildy mistaken most of my statement was still true, of course ati is shooting to dethrone nvidia WHY WOULDNT THEY?? again as to wether or not that will happen WE DONT KNOW. Wether or not he g92 (whatever it is) is going to be good WE DONT KNOW. So NO I did not grossly misinform anyone. Maybe YOU should think more before you make grossly rude comments!...ill await my forum ban notice for this, I appologize to the original poster for screwing up your thread btw.
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Jeez. :rolleyes:

I forget to put a smiley there and suddenly I'm being "grossly rude". . .

But, I do stand by "grossly misinform". . . you were arguing that nvidia (a) has the 9800 on deck as the G92, and (b) has moved up its release date to directly compete with the ATi in order to trounce it and (c) possibly regain the performance crown if ATi manages to beat the 8800gtx/ultra.

Two of those are just factually mistaken. The last one is a false/doubtful premise (since it's unknown --and to my mind, very doubtful-- that ATi will beat the 8800gtx/ultra with what it's releasing this month for $250). If someone is basing a buying decision off your post, then, yes, they are being "grossly misinformed." I'm not sure how you can get the item, release date, and effect of the release wrong and claim to only have made a "minor mistake" that leaves the rest of your post's intent largely intact.

My only point was that not only are some of guessing, or citing guesses, but some of us are even citing the guesses incorrectly.

I think your anger is more based in embarrassment than it is in me being "grossly rude."

However, I could have been more tactful. I apologize for the lack of a smiley or something that might have softened the otherwise (needlessly?) rough edges of my post.
 
Hurin said:
You need to read a bit closer before grossly misinforming folks. . .

G92 is not the nvidia 9800 series. Unless there's been some major misinformation floating around via several reports, It's a mid-range solution and will be called the 8800gt. It should perform around the 8800gts level (some disagree whether above or below). But, the point is that this is not the "next generation" of nvidia cards. The 8800gtx/ultra will remain the top sku for nvidia.
Click to expand...


Hurin said:
Jeez. :rolleyes:

I forget to put a smiley there and suddenly I'm being "grossly rude". . .

But, I do stand by "grossly misinform". . . you were arguing that nvidia (a) has the 9800 on deck as the G92, and (b) has moved up its release date to directly compete with the ATi in order to trounce it and (c) possibly regain the performance crown if ATi manages to beat the 8800gtx/ultra.

Two of those are just factually mistaken. The last one is a false/doubtful premise (since it's unknown --and to my mind, very doubtful-- that ATi will beat the 8800gtx/ultra with what it's releasing this month for $250). If someone is basing a buying decision off your post, then, yes, they are being "grossly misinformed." I'm not sure how you can get the item, release date, and effect of the release wrong and claim to only have made a "minor mistake" that leaves the rest of your post's intent largely intact.

My only point was that not only are some of guessing, or citing guesses, but some of us are even citing the guesses incorrectly.

I think your anger is more based in embarrassment than it is in me being "grossly rude."

However, I could have been more tactful. I apologize for the lack of a smiley or something that might have softened the otherwise (needlessly?) rough edges of my post.
Click to expand...

Whats amazing is the bullshit these tech sites feed people like you, and you consider it to be right because you see it on more than one website. You are accusing others of grossly informing the population, yet youre doing the same thing.

nVidia is planning to release a 1TF solution in Q4 07, which is codenamed G92. This is straight from nVidia, not my ass, or the INQ, or VR-Zone, Beyond3d, or whatever. Unless thats what your going to repeat, sit on your hands. The only reliable source is nVidia, and thats the latest (regardless of how old) from them.
 
nissanztt90 said:
Whats amazing is the bullshit these tech sites feed people like you, and you consider it to be right because you see it on more than one website. You are accusing others of grossly informing the population, yet youre doing the same thing.

nVidia is planning to release a 1TF solution in Q4 07, which is codenamed G92. This is straight from nVidia, not my ass, or the INQ, or VR-Zone, Beyond3d, or whatever. Unless thats what your going to repeat, sit on your hands. The only reliable source is nVidia, and thats the latest (regardless of how old) from them.
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Wow. I stated in multiple places that these are merely reports that are unconfirmed. While I also pointed out that this other guy was even getting those unconfirmed reports wrong. Hence my saying:

My only point was that not only are some of us guessing, or citing guesses, but some of us are even citing the guesses incorrectly.
Click to expand...
Someone pee in your cornflakes this morning? Feel free to clutch that six-month-old informal comment from nvidia to your breast and lovingly caress it. Meanwhile, I'll continue to point out when someone is misrepresenting reports, confirmed or otherwise. As requested by that other fellow though, I'll be more careful to be cordial while doing so.

Meanwhile, feel free to vent more of your misdirected anger. You apparently get off on it.

Edit: If you think you've singled out some Inq reader/believer for righteous abuse, I suggest you look at my post history (example).
 
ATI may want to beat the G80 series but to tell you the truth they'd be dreaming if they thought they could, their card is too unoptimized, and lacks severely in AA performance, the only thing they can really catch up on is being able to enable alot of shader heavey operations on games (like STALKER)

the G92 is most likely going to be the 8800GT

Also i believe the high end CPU's being priced so high is due to their lifespan in current computers, I used a $220 CPU for about 3 years now that is starting to lag in games (ok, really lag in CPU heavey games), I think the bitching about the high end GPU pricing is decent and holds more ground then CPU's which rarely see change.
 
GPU's don't last as long as a CPU almost entirely due to them being used more and more for the graphics rendering part of a game. Years ago a TI4600 could get you buy, from the time you bought it and it would keep pushing games 3 to 4 years later at high settings. This is no longer the case as graphics have become more and more sophisticated.
 
Hurin said:
Wow. I stated in multiple places that these are merely reports that are unconfirmed. While I also pointed out that this other guy was even getting those unconfirmed reports wrong. Hence my saying:

Someone pee in your cornflakes this morning? Feel free to clutch that six-month-old informal comment from nvidia to your breast and lovingly caress it. Meanwhile, I'll continue to point out when someone is misrepresenting reports, confirmed or otherwise. As requested by that other fellow though, I'll be more careful to be cordial while doing so.

Meanwhile, feel free to vent more of your misdirected anger. You apparently get off on it.

Edit: If you think you've singled out some Inq reader/believer for righteous abuse, I suggest you look at my post history (example).
Click to expand...


Whatever helps you sleep at night bud. And no, cornflakes were piss free. Its amazing how people cant comprehend that something 6 months old from nVidia is more valueable than the bullshit the rumor mill is tossing around. Mock me if you will, but in the end at least i can say i have a sense of logic. Enjoy pointing out those "misrepresentations" of the made up reports.
 
jbzx86 said:
it would keep pushing games 3 to 4 years later at high settings
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I don't think there has ever been a card with that much longevity. Sure in some cases you can still play games 3-4 years later, but not anywhere close to high settings.

Longest I've ever used a video card was the previously mentioned Geforce 256 DDR. When it came out, I could play Quake III and the rest of the popular games at 1024x768 high detail and get 60+fps which was considered good in those days. But approx 33 months later when UT2003 came out, it could barely handle 800x600 medium with frequent dips below 30fps. Upgraded to a geforce 4 ti4200 and only 18 months later, Far Cry and Thief 3 knocked it down a notch. It could only manage medium with not so steady fps, so I got a 9800pro etc..
 
supposedly the ati cards are going to... but what difference is that gonna make when nvidia is sitting on a 1 terraflop beast lol.
 
nissanztt90 said:
Whatever helps you sleep at night bud. And no, cornflakes were piss free. Its amazing how people cant comprehend that something 6 months old from nVidia is more valueable than the bullshit the rumor mill is tossing around. Mock me if you will, but in the end at least i can say i have a sense of logic.
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Logic? I'm illogical because I pointed out that someone misread an unconfirmed report and thereby unintentionally created yet another unconfirmed report (ie, rumor)? Is it illogical to say that the preponderance of evidence is that nvidia will not be releasing its new high-end card in Q4 but has instead decided to wait until Q1 of '08?

My friend. . . one could argue that it's "illogical" to assume that nvidia's plans do not change and that their 6+ month-old informal statement as to their plans is still valid given all that we now know about ATi's plans and the shape of the market.

something 6 months old from nVidia is more valueable than the bullshit the rumor mill is tossing around.
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Unless, of course, nvidia has changes its plans without making those changes of plan public (as has often happened). Then, logically that information from nvidia becomes worthless. Or, at least, it becomes less valuable than other reports that may turn out to more accurately represent nvidia's plans since the original plan has been thrown out the window.

But, again, you want to cling to outdated information and claim that you have a monopoly on "logic." You might think it "logical" to believe only what nvidia said 6+ months ago. . . but if it turns out that the G92 is the 8800gt (which seems more and more certain every day) and that nvidia does not indeed launch their "1TF monster" in Q4. . . what you consider "logical" will also turn out to be "wrong."

Or, to put it yet another way: Is it "logical" to continue to cling to the informal comment by an nvidia exec six months ago when you have the following quote from someone who may (probably?) have newer, more up-to-date information? Someone like Kyle?

Kyle Bennett said:
I would suggest that we will not see changes in the top tier video cards until next year.
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Always beware of those claiming a monopoly on "logic." Logical and reasonable people can disagree and believe different things. Yet those who merely assert that only their viewpoint is "logical" are usually not pleasant people with whom to have a disagreement.
 
Hurin said:
Logic? I'm illogical because I pointed out that someone misread an unconfirmed report and thereby unintentionally created yet another unconfirmed report (ie, rumor)? Is it illogical to say that the preponderance of evidence is that nvidia will not be releasing its new high-end card in Q4 but has instead decided to wait until Q1 of '08?

My friend. . . one could argue that it's "illogical" to assume that nvidia's plans do not change and that their 6+ month-old informal statement as to their plans is still valid given all that we now know about ATi's plans and the shape of the market.


Unless, of course, nvidia has changes its plans without making those changes of plan public (as has often happened). Then, logically that information from nvidia becomes worthless. Or, at least, it becomes less valuable than other reports that may turn out to more accurately represent nvidia's plans since the original plan has been thrown out the window.

But, again, you want to cling to outdated information and claim that you have a monopoly on "logic." You might think it "logical" to believe only what nvidia said 6+ months ago. . . but if it turns out that the G92 is the 8800gt (which seems more and more certain every day) and that nvidia does not indeed launch their "1TF monster" in Q4. . . what you consider "logical" will also turn out to be "wrong."

Or, to put it yet another way: Is it "logical" to continue to cling to the informal comment by an nvidia exec six months ago when you have the following quote from someone who may (probably?) have newer, more up-to-date information? Someone like Kyle?



Always beware of those claiming a monopoly on "logic." Logical and reasonable people can disagree and believe different things. Yet those who merely assert that only their viewpoint is "logical" are usually not pleasant people with whom to have a disagreement.
Click to expand...

Argue semantics all you wish.

Anyone who knows anything worthwhile or reliable is under NDA. I doubt Kyle is stupid enough to violate that if he is under NDA, so you can take his opinion and toss it on top of the rumor pile as well, because its just his speculation.

Since you dont quite comprehend the meaning of my statement, ill spell it out for you. nVidia states 1TF in Q407. Plans may change, plans may not. The only statement with any shread of credibility came from nVidia 6 months ago. If you wish to believe sites looking for ad traffic, be my guest. In this case, yes, logic would be to believe the company producing the part, and not a website looking for ad traffic. You hacking up the viewpoint of "logic" six ways to Sunday doesnt change anything.

Also, this a computer forum, take your pompous rhetoric elsewhere. If you want to somehow convince me to believe a website that is wrong 99% of the time over the manufacture, i welcome you to try. I dont claim a monopoly on logic, i only find it logical to listen to someone who is involved with creating the part, then a website known for spewing bullshit to improve their ad traffic. If you dont find it pleasant to have a disagreement with me, then dont disagree with me.
 
The new ATI/AMD video refresh is really what R600 should have been when it was first released. Better late than never, I suppose. I have no idea if it'll be better or worse than the 8800 GTX but it'll definitely be better than what is available today from AMD.

I'm really looking forward to what the die shrink is going to do for overclocking headroom, to say nothing of corresponding massive reductions in power drain and heat. I remember reading a review (http://www.nordichardware.com/news,6331.html) where they used some ultra exotic cooling and tried to see how high the core could go. They topped off at 1230 mhz but only because R600 actually overcame the liquid nitrogen's cooling ability before reaching its true physical limits. I always wondered how much higher it could've gone with a die shrink. We'll find out soon, stay tuned.
 
nissanztt90 said:
Argue semantics all you wish.

Anyone who knows anything worthwhile or reliable is under NDA. I doubt Kyle is stupid enough to violate that if he is under NDA, so you can take his opinion and toss it on top of the rumor pile as well, because its just his speculation.

Since you dont quite comprehend the meaning of my statement, ill spell it out for you. nVidia states 1TF in Q407. Plans may change, plans may not. The only statement with any shread of credibility came from nVidia 6 months ago. If you wish to believe sites looking for ad traffic, be my guest. In this case, yes, logic would be to believe the company producing the part, and not a website looking for ad traffic. You hacking up the viewpoint of "logic" six ways to Sunday doesnt change anything.

Also, this a computer forum, take your pompous rhetoric elsewhere. If you want to somehow convince me to believe a website that is wrong 99% of the time over the manufacture, i welcome you to try. I dont claim a monopoly on logic, i only find it logical to listen to someone who is involved with creating the part, then a website known for spewing bullshit to improve their ad traffic. If you dont find it pleasant to have a disagreement with me, then dont disagree with me.
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Sigh. . .

I was originally pointing out that this was all guesswork and that some were even getting the guesswork wrong. Yet now you're disingenuously trying to lump me in with all those who take the Inq at face value.

The sad part is that you don't even seem to realize that you and I were largely in agreement in that we both think the Inq and sites like it are nearly always full of crap (as I have repeatedly said before -- and I have linked to when I've said it). But that's not to say that good, credible information can't be released by entities other than nvidia.

The problem here is that you're painting yourself farther and farther into a rhetorical corner. . . surely there are some sites out there with a "shred" of credibility. Surely, as has been the case several times in the past, some sites have gotten a scoop prior to the official announcement from a manufacturer. To say that nobody but nvidia has any credibility is to misunderstand what the word "credibility" means.

If you wanted to come into this thread and say that such discussions are pointless until we know for sure what nvidia has in mind, be my guest (though some would call it thread crapping). I feel the same way myself most of the time. But trying to make your point by going after someone who was pointing out misinformation isn't the best way to go about it.

Regardless, when someone starts talking about how they're only following "logic" and then somehow considers it "pompous" when someone analyzes that "logic". . . there's a problem. And that problem, in my opinion, is that you have a skewed interpretation of the words "logic" and "credibility."

In a month or two, we may very well find out that some of the more credible sites were pretty accurate in their predictions. That doesn't mean I'm a big fan of random speculation threads that seem to be posted just when people get bored and want to start a conversation. But my aversion to threads like this doesn't make any website that receives information automatically un-credible or guilty of posting BS just to raise their traffic. Certainly, sites do this. But not all of them. Making such absolute statements is a recipe for trouble.
 
Trimlock said:
I see this posted alot, FLOP count does not = real world speed.
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Correct, but it does tell you RELATIVE speed which can be more tangible than a set of specs (without benchmarks). Putting those numbers compared with what the current cards are currently operating at tells you what level newer cards could potentially perform at versus their older siblings.

As for me, I am tracking the market side of this not fucking vr-zone or inquirer. The 1-Tflop card 'rumor' started from an investor call, by nVidia's head of investor relations. If they miss that target there will be repercussions that transcend any fanboy anger. The stock got added to a few analyst's buy list over the past few weeks and that activity sounds more promising to me than what vr-zone has to say...
 
ATI is supposed to have pushed the 2950 Pro/XT's to late October to match up and compete with nVidia, I hear ;).

G92 to perform about GTX-level, RV670 specifics TBD but supposed to be about the same if not a bit better.
 
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