So is all this madness still in full swing?

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Zedicus said:
even at full tilt, crypto is less impactful on the power industry than what the shock and horror articles would lead you to believe. comparing crypto to a small country is irrelevant, When the banking industry is purposefully left off the list. .
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It would be hard to isolate the crypto equivalent part of the banking industry, if people compare people transferring fund between each other with their phone (quasi instant and quasi free now in Canada to do that between any banks), it will make crypto look has a giant waste.

If they do the other error and compare the complete modern banking system to crypto it would look more equal (how much energy would be used if tomorrow the current crypto would do 65 millions clearing house type transaction a day, 120 millions credit card type transaction a day and so on in the USA alone..., maybe it is not ready for that and would have to have a chance to grow up with that use in mind in that theorical comparison) and different crypto would have different equivalent.

Bitcoin is a big one and could replace very little of the banking system, it could replace the storage of gold industry (and the mining dedicated to gold to be stored) and negative interest giant loan and could be compared to those.

Cannot say I have ever seen a good comp, you are right.

if the article just above is right:
Bitcoin alone 120 TWH
DigitalMint COO Don Wyper, meanwhile, points out that the gold-mining industry – which produces between 2,500 to 3,000 tons of new gold every year – consumes 475 million gigajoules of electricity: equal to around 131.9 TWh. It is much more difficult to scrutinize the energy output of the banking system which encompasses brick-and-mortar branches, printing facilities, computer servers, ATMs, and transportation, though one analysis puts the figure at 140 TWh.

That would show how good and efficiency global banking would be, it is one of the biggest industry in the world a superbe machine serving many billions, same energy used than gold or bitcoin.
 
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The Madness never ends...
ElbowDrop.gif
 
Ever wonder how you can't get a single card to play games but yet mining farms can literally buy thousands?
The problem is not a shortage of manufacturing....Covid-19 or any such bulls**t.
It is the direct sales and the fact that you don't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Your 'piddly' few hundred dollars do not matter to AIBs enough for them to disregard bulk sales with guaranteed payouts.
Use logic for Christ sake.
 
Saabjock said:
Ever wonder how you can't get a single card to play games but yet mining farms can literally buy thousands?
The problem is not a shortage of manufacturing....Covid-19 or any such bulls**t.
It is the direct sales and the fact that you don't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Your 'piddly' few hundred dollars do not matter to AIBs enough for them to disregard bulk sales with guaranteed payouts.
Use logic for Christ sake.
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Correct.
 
Saabjock said:
Ever wonder how you can't get a single card to play games but yet mining farms can literally buy thousands?
The problem is not a shortage of manufacturing....Covid-19 or any such bulls**t.
It is the direct sales and the fact that you don't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Your 'piddly' few hundred dollars do not matter to AIBs enough for them to disregard bulk sales with guaranteed payouts.
Use logic for Christ sake.
Click to expand...
If you a ready to buy a pre-build you easily can no ?
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/Confi...ile_desktops_3_2h4a2av-1_omen-30l-desktop-gt1
https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/des.../spd/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/daar10_h95e
https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/des.../spd/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/daar10_h80e

It is not like they cannot bulk sales to Hp, Dell, best buy, new egg and many other clients.


If it was only direct sales to miner, would you not be able to get a single play station 5 to play games.... ?
 
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LukeTbk said:
While true that the production and sales in 2020 and Q1 2021 were not lower than 2019 and Q1 2020:


yPqhdNKxmb3EHjwSLDhRVg-970-80.png


Q2 2019 to Q1 2020
NVidia: 5.03 + 7.66 + 8.10 + 6.57 = 27.36 millions Nvidia unit, 4 quarter pre-covid
AMD...: 2.37 + 2.84 + 3.66 + 2.93 = 11.80 millions AMD unit, 4 quarter pre-covid

Q2 2020 to Q1 2021
NVidia: 7.41 + 8.86 + 9.02 + 9.42 = 34.71 millions Nvidia unit, first 4 covid quarter
AMD...: 2.09 + 2.65 + 1.98 + 2.35 = 9.07 millions AMD unit, 4 quarter pre-covid

Combined

nAkTK6bTMg4RP9mLnrjDCG-970-80.png


The shortage is certainly not due to a decline in production from 2019, but considering the high demand maybe manufacturing issue explain with production did not ramp up back to the previous minig craze of mid 2017 to mid 2018 or that is due to the fact that consoles and CPU got in giant demand at the same time, that would probably explain with AMD output decrease instead of increasing, CPU having better margin for them and consoles APU having pre-agreed I would imagine volume deal with the giant clients there.

I am not sure how one distinguish manufacturing issue with the explosion of demand for the same process-chips to explain the lack of ramping up like it was possible for them to do in the recent past, but I imagine very knowledge people could.
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And high demand = helicopter money from the government. More than $10 trillion in global central bank printing since COVID started. You can see classic stagflationary effects when money supply increases faster than goods and services are created. We had the polar opposite effect after 2009 financial crisis--massive deflation from the credit crunch. Ultimately it shows that demand is nearly unlimited when people have the money to spend.
 
LukeTbk said:
If you a ready to buy a pre-build you easily can no ?
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/Confi...ile_desktops_3_2h4a2av-1_omen-30l-desktop-gt1
https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/des.../spd/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/daar10_h95e
https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/des.../spd/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/daar10_h80e

It is not like they cannot bulk sales to Hp, Dell, best buy, new egg and many other clients.


If it was only direct sales to miner, would you not be able to get a single play station 5 to play games.... ?
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Bulk sales of graphics cards to computer manufacturers are dependent on their sales projections.
That drives the number and total cost per unit procured.
Mining companies on the other hand, can negotiate for thousands of units because the profit margin is almost guaranteed.
That card is making money the minute you power it on.
They'll also pay higher prices because they know the profit will eventually pay for the hardware itself.
That is not the case with the graphics card in a consumer PC.
 
Saabjock said:
Bulk sales of graphics cards to computer manufacturers are dependent on their sales projections.
That drives the number and total cost per unit procured.
Mining companies on the other hand, can negotiate for thousands of units because the profit margin is almost guaranteed.
That card is making money the minute you power it on.
They'll also pay higher prices because they know the profit will eventually pay for the hardware itself.
That is not the case with the graphics card in a consumer PC.
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I should have ordered in other rank my question, if the only reason it is hard to simply buy an GPU online right now is mass sales to miners, why I never achieved to buy a PS5 until now, getting close to 10 month after release now I think ?

Reading your message do you think dell, Hp, etc... cannot negotiate for thousand of units and are not certain in the current market that they will be able to sell all of them (and a really good price, look how much they charge for them) and do you disagree that the gamers that what a pc with those new card can easily now buy one on dell.com ? What is hard to get is single card (I ask because I could be wrong, maybe people that buy those pre-build do not receive anything for months in reality and the 3 weeks or so to ship are false)
 
LukeTbk said:
I should have ordered in other rank my question, if the only reason it is hard to simply buy an GPU online right now is mass sales to miners, why I never achieved to buy a PS5 until now, getting close to 10 month after release now I think ?

Reading your message do you think dell, Hp, etc... cannot negotiate for thousand of units and are not certain in the current market that they will be able to sell all of them (and a really good price, look how much they charge for them) and do you disagree that the gamers that what a pc with those new card can easily now buy one on dell.com ? What is hard to get is single card (I ask because I could be wrong, maybe people that buy those pre-build do not receive anything for months in reality and the 3 weeks or so to ship are false)
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GPU shortage is worse. I can buy a used PS4 for reasonable prices, but I can't buy a GTX 1050ti or GTX 1650 or RX 5500XT for reasonable prices.

If it was just gamers it wouldn't be this way. Older hardware should be cheaper, not selling above their original MSRP.
 
It’s a prefect storm.
It was hard to find video cards before Covid due to mining, then everyone was told to stay home and the government handed out loads of cash to the people this time, not just Wall st like in 2009. Maybe TSMC wasn’t shut down but there were supply chain disruptions everywhere that affected nearly everything.

It is easing a little but that kind of perfect storm doesn’t ease quickly, and the government is probably going to keep handing out money so people will spend it regardless of high prices.
 
People got stimulus checks here in the states for $1200 in some cases. That right there would nearly pay for a scalped 6800xt card. If you were working and got one of those checks then it would be a 'free' card for you or close to it.

It seems like PC gamers have this entitlement mentality going on. They should get first dibs on these devices and at msrp. If someone else buys one and pays more than they are willing to pay, and are using it for something they don't approve of, then we have a problem there.

Not sure what gives them the right?
 
Easy to understand why PC gamers feel the right to the cards. We've been buying cards for 25 years, the profits which are used to create new and better cards. Then all of a sudden, the dynamic changes and opportunists with no prior investment in the industry prevent us from buying the newest cards.

But its a free market, so the highest price gets it
 
Not every PC gamer has been buying cards for '25 years'. My first graphics card was a EGA 16 color option on a PC XT. So I fall into the camp of those that have been at this for a while.

I still don't feel entitled to first dibs at a certain price on graphics cards. They are available, I just have to pay more for them at this point in time. I'm not thrilled about it who would be. Even if you're mining you aren't going to be thrilled with the situation.

Nobody deserves a graphics card over anyone else.
 
rmfa said:
The miners are not the problem, the chip shortage is the problem. This is proving it, imo.
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Not sure how you came to that conclusion. When mining values started to drop there was at least some reprieve. Cards were only being priced about 2xMSRP instead of 3xMSRP and short of the FE cards, you could find AIBs in stock at Amazon and Newegg. Now that values are on the rise again pricing has gone back up and availability back down.
 
rolling_tiger said:
GPU shortage is worse. I can buy a used PS4 for reasonable prices, but I can't buy a GTX 1050ti or GTX 1650 or RX 5500XT for reasonable prices.

If it was just gamers it wouldn't be this way. Older hardware should be cheaper, not selling above their original MSRP.
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That a good point, but a strawman here, nobody said that it was just gamers. (But seem like ps4 are quite expensive right now for a what RX470-480 ?)

There is reason's why the dgpu production did not rise up at the level of the previous mine craze (and explosion of demand for similar product with the release of the new consoles, the work-school from home and so on, is also part of that) that is part of the situation or at least would require someone that claim that the reason production did not go up with the demand like in 2018 is because of miners and AIB selling to them directly.
 
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rolling_tiger said:
GPU shortage is worse. I can buy a used PS4 for reasonable prices, but I can't buy a GTX 1050ti or GTX 1650 or RX 5500XT for reasonable prices.

If it was just gamers it wouldn't be this way. Older hardware should be cheaper, not selling above their original MSRP.
Click to expand...

Are used PS4 prices really any more "reasonable" than anything else that's for sale? Looking at my local craigslist they are all over $200. Pre-pandemic you could grab them much closer to the $100 range IIRC. Inflation has impacted pretty much everything, just to varying degrees.
 
LukeTbk said:
I should have ordered in other rank my question, if the only reason it is hard to simply buy an GPU online right now is mass sales to miners, why I never achieved to buy a PS5 until now, getting close to 10 month after release now I think ?

Reading your message do you think dell, Hp, etc... cannot negotiate for thousand of units and are not certain in the current market that they will be able to sell all of them (and a really good price, look how much they charge for them) and do you disagree that the gamers that what a pc with those new card can easily now buy one on dell.com ? What is hard to get is single card (I ask because I could be wrong, maybe people that buy those pre-build do not receive anything for months in reality and the 3 weeks or so to ship are false)
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Dell, HP, CyberPower, etc can order in bulk but they will never pay the prices or buy the volume of a mining farm. The sale of the PC they're assembling for sale has a built-in profit margin. The crypto rig does not. This is why the farm will always pay more and get the cards direct. It is about money...lots of it. The minute that crypto card starts service, the minute it starts to make money. That OEM computer may sit on the shelf for weeks or months before it is purchased...and it may never really make any money.
 
I just paid more for a lower range graphics card (3060, Non-Ti) than I did for a top of the line card (1080) just a little more than five years ago. This stuff is insane and has become the new normal for years to come unfortunately. I may need to find other hobbies with how expensive cars, computers and guns have become.
 
Saabjock said:
Dell, HP, CyberPower, etc can order in bulk but they will never pay the prices or buy the volume of a mining farm. The sale of the PC they're assembling for sale has a built-in profit margin. The crypto rig does not. This is why the farm will always pay more and get the cards direct. It is about money...lots of it. The minute that crypto card starts service, the minute it starts to make money. That OEM computer may sit on the shelf for weeks or months before it is purchased...and it may never really make any money.
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I feel it is 2-3 time you avoid the main point, why I cannot buy a play station 5 or xbox right now, going 10 month after release, if it is a phenomenon virtually explained a 100% by the bulk sales to miners by dgpu AIB ?

Why did the dgpu shipment did not go up to the previous high mining era demand of 2017 early 2018 ? Why AMD making less dgpu now than in 2019 ?

Comprehensive-Overview.png


Do you think that in a world without the new consoles and new demands in similar sector that AMD would not be making twice to 3 time has many discrete Gpu right now ? And nvidia 25% more ?

You could be right, but I would like to hear your reasoning.

Saabjock said:
Dell, HP, CyberPower, etc can order in bulk but they will never pay the prices or buy the volume of a mining farm. The sale of the PC they're assembling for sale has a built-in profit margin. The crypto rig does not. This is why the farm will always pay more and get the cards direct. It is about money...lots of it. The minute that crypto card starts service, the minute it starts to make money. That OEM computer may sit on the shelf for weeks or months before it is purchased...and it may never really make any money.
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If everyone buying one of those with those new GPUs are receiving them by the mail in a reasonable waiting time line, could we not assume they received has many has they ask for ? I think it is still a waiting list now, there is no sitting on the shelf of a 3080 at Dell (if that was the case we would be out of it). The idea that a gamer cannot buy those new gpu but that that Dell may sit on them for months does not match at all.

Has for a major worldwide presence prebuilder never buying the volume of a single big mining farm a company like Dell sells millions of gaming PC a year and the price they are charging customer for those GPU is really impressive.
 
AMD and Nvidia don't make anything, they are both fabless. AMD's numbers are low in 2020 because 7nm node is hit bottlenecks due to material shortages and a lack of clean water for TSMC labs. Nvidia's numbers kept going up because while Samsung 8nm is also a relatively new node, it didn't have as much competition from auto makers, mobile chip makers or supercomputers.
 
pippenainteasy said:
Are used PS4 prices really any more "reasonable" than anything else that's for sale? Looking at my local craigslist they are all over $200. Pre-pandemic you could grab them much closer to the $100 range IIRC. Inflation has impacted pretty much everything, just to varying degrees.
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You are welcome to say used PS4 prices are unreasonable, but they're still under MSRP.

LukeTbk said:
That a good point, but a strawman here, nobody said that it was just gamers. (But seem like ps4 are quite expensive right now for a what RX470-480 ?)

There is reason's why the dgpu production did not rise up at the level of the previous mine craze (and explosion of demand for similar product with the release of the new consoles, the work-school from home and so on, is also part of that) that is part of the situation or at least would require someone that claim that the reason production did not go up with the demand like in 2018 is because of miners and AIB selling to them directly.
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If you want to use work from home as an argument, I would agree if it was the end of 2020 before vaccines, but I can't agree with that argument today. People have mostly gone back into work or are using work from home hardware purchased last year.
 
StormNobleheart said:
I just paid more for a lower range graphics card (3060, Non-Ti) than I did for a top of the line card (1080) just a little more than five years ago. This stuff is insane and has become the new normal for years to come unfortunately. I may need to find other hobbies with how expensive cars, computers and guns have become.
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I quit gaming early last year so I've been out of the tech loop some and have my RTX 2060 running NICEHASH mining to earn a few bucks a day. I thought about selling my RTX2060, checked current prices, and can't believe how it expensive it is now. It's worth more than I paid over two years ago, insane! I picked a helluva time to quit gaming, sucks for folk that still game though. I'm just gonna keep my RTX 2060 to mine in NICE HASH, oh well.

As for hobbies I pretty much use my time to watch streaming with the wife which has helped our marriage a lot. I do miss gaming but having the Netflix and chill time with the wife is priceless. If I had more time to spare I'd probably assemble model kits, lol.
 
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pippenainteasy said:
AMD and Nvidia don't make anything, they are both fabless. AMD's numbers are low in 2020 because 7nm node is hit bottlenecks due to material shortages and a lack of clean water for TSMC labs. Nvidia's numbers kept going up because while Samsung 8nm is also a relatively new node, it didn't have as much competition from auto makers, mobile chip makers or supercomputers.
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Samsung makes NVidia’s chips? Does TSMC also?
 
TangledThornz said:
I quit gaming early last year so I've been out of the tech loop some and have my RTX 2060 running NICEHASH mining to earn a few bucks a day. I thought about selling my RTX2060, checked current prices, and can't believe how it expensive it is now. It's worth more than I paid over two years, insane! I picked a helluva time to quit gaming, sucks for folk that still game though. I'm just gonna keep my RTX 2060 to mine, oh well.

As for hobbies I pretty much use my time to watch streaming with the wife which has helped our marriage a lot. I do miss gaming but having the Netflix and chill time with the wife is priceless. If I had more time to spare I'd probably assemble model kits, lol.
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Wow, my Zotac 2060 goes for $500 used on Ebay. Is that cause it’s not LHR?
 
rolling_tiger said:
You are welcome to say used PS4 prices are unreasonable, but they're still under MSRP.


If you want to use work from home as an argument, I would agree if it was the end of 2020 before vaccines, but I can't agree with that argument today. People have mostly gone back into work or are using work from home hardware purchased last year.
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Lot of people would have work for a while with old laptop and getting something more permanent (and unfilled demand of people not able to get command in)

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS47601721
Global shipments of traditional PCs, including desktops, notebooks, and workstations, grew 55.2% year over year during the first quarter of 2021 (1Q21), according to preliminary results from the International Data Corporation (IDC) Worldwide Quarterly Personal Computing Device Tracker. While PCs remain in extremely high demand, the growth rate benefitted from the shortages faced in the first quarter of 2020 when the global pandemic began,

Company1Q21 Shipments1Q21 Market Share1Q20 Shipments1Q20 Market Share1Q21/1Q20 Growth
1. Lenovo20,40124.3%12,82623.7%59.1%
2. HP Inc.19,23722.9%11,72221.7%64.1%
3. Dell Technologies12,94615.4%10,49519.4%23.4%
4. Apple6,6928.0%3,1645.8%111.5%
5. Acer Group5,8377.0%3,3646.2%73.5%
Others18,86822.5%12,55223.2%50.3%
Total83,981100.0%54,123100.0%55.2%

Maybe it is not due to the work from home or school from home this time around, but that a bit irrelevant the giant is magnitude bigger than Q1 2020 instead of going down year after the year like the trend was.
 
StormNobleheart said:
I may need to find other hobbies with how expensive cars, computers and guns have become.
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Have you considered knitting or baking cookies?

It isn't just GPUs that are hard to get right now and IMO part of why AMD cards are in short supply is because of PS5 production chewing up wafers. Hard to blame miners for that though I'm sure someone will find a way.
 
Furystrike said:
Easy to understand why PC gamers feel the right to the cards. We've been buying cards for 25 years, the profits which are used to create new and better cards. Then all of a sudden, the dynamic changes and opportunists with no prior investment in the industry prevent us from buying the newest cards.

But its a free market, so the highest price gets it
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Abso-freeqin-lutely on target.
 
StormNobleheart said:
I just paid more for a lower range graphics card (3060, Non-Ti) than I did for a top of the line card (1080) just a little more than five years ago. This stuff is insane and has become the new normal for years to come unfortunately. I may need to find other hobbies with how expensive cars, computers and guns have become.
Click to expand...
The reason new cars are in short supply and used car prices are so high is the shortage of chips used in new cars. Also the reason that car rentals have gotten so much more expensive.
 
LukeTbk said:
Lot of people would have work for a while with old laptop and getting something more permanent (and unfilled demand of people not able to get command in)

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS47601721
Global shipments of traditional PCs, including desktops, notebooks, and workstations, grew 55.2% year over year during the first quarter of 2021 (1Q21), according to preliminary results from the International Data Corporation (IDC) Worldwide Quarterly Personal Computing Device Tracker. While PCs remain in extremely high demand, the growth rate benefitted from the shortages faced in the first quarter of 2020 when the global pandemic began,

Company1Q21 Shipments1Q21 Market Share1Q20 Shipments1Q20 Market Share1Q21/1Q20 Growth
1. Lenovo20,40124.3%12,82623.7%59.1%
2. HP Inc.19,23722.9%11,72221.7%64.1%
3. Dell Technologies12,94615.4%10,49519.4%23.4%
4. Apple6,6928.0%3,1645.8%111.5%
5. Acer Group5,8377.0%3,3646.2%73.5%
Others18,86822.5%12,55223.2%50.3%
Total83,981100.0%54,123100.0%55.2%

Maybe it is not due to the work from home or school from home this time around, but that a bit irrelevant the giant is magnitude bigger than Q1 2020 instead of going down year after the year like the trend was.
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So these are still pre vaccine and return to work numbers.
 
TangledThornz said:
I quit gaming early last year so I've been out of the tech loop some and have my RTX 2060 running NICEHASH mining to earn a few bucks a day. I thought about selling my RTX2060, checked current prices, and can't believe how it expensive it is now. It's worth more than I paid over two years, insane! I picked a helluva time to quit gaming, sucks for folk that still game though. I'm just gonna keep my RTX 2060 to mine, oh well.

As for hobbies I pretty much use my time to watch streaming with the wife which has helped our marriage a lot. I do miss gaming but having the Netflix and chill time with the wife is priceless. If I had more time to spare I'd probably assemble model kits, lol.
Click to expand...
I agree with you and I do scale modeling as a hobby and income generator too.

 
rolling_tiger said:
So these are still pre vaccine and return to work numbers.
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Q1 2021 I imagine in most country yes, but that put some not necessarily part to the (same for schools) : or are using work from home hardware purchased last year.

Not sure if it is relevant exactly why those pre made PC sales are much much higher too, regardless on how and why, they put pressure.

Why AMD is making less video card than usual despite the big demand and price for them ?

To resume the conversation that seem to be lost:

1) Someone argue it exist no other factor than miners and people selling in bulk directly to them that participate on why it is hard to buy single card (I am not sure if it is argued that it is hard to get one via a pre-build or not)
2) I point out, it is hard for a console (and cars) has well, it is not unique to what miners, I feel like there other factor, one is video card production is not specially high despite the high demand.

Do you disagree that the video card production is less high than one would expect to be if nothing else would have changed in the world outside GPU being more popular for miners ?
 
LukeTbk said:
Q1 2021 I imagine in most country yes, but that put some not necessarily part to the (same for schools) : or are using work from home hardware purchased last year.

Not sure if it is relevant exactly why those pre made PC sales are much much higher too, regardless on how and why, they put pressure.

Why AMD is making less video card than usual despite the big demand and price for them ?

To resume the conversation that seem to be lost:

1) Someone argue it exist no other factor than miners and people selling in bulk directly to them that participate on why it is hard to buy single card (I am not sure if it is argued that it is hard to get one via a pre-build or not)
2) I point out, it is hard for a console (and cars) has well, it is not unique to what miners, I feel like there other factor, one is video card production is not specially high despite the high demand.

Do you disagree that the video card production is less high than one would expect to be if nothing else would have changed in the world outside GPU being more popular for miners ?
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We aren't arguing about the same thing. I'm arguing miners affected the entire GPU market, new and used. They don't just need one GPU, they need all available GPUs to increase the amount of money they make each day. It's insatiable demand.

The PS5s are scarce because the market demand is about 100M units for the entire console's retail life and there have only been about 10M to 15M made so far. You can still go out and buy the previous model for less than MSRP.

Shortages in all industries are real. No one is disputing that. Bottom line: miners screwed the current GPU market as they did at the end of 2017 and into 2018 before COVID-19 and chip shortages were a thing.
 
LukeTbk said:
If you a ready to buy a pre-build you easily can no ?
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/Confi...ile_desktops_3_2h4a2av-1_omen-30l-desktop-gt1
https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/des.../spd/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/daar10_h95e
https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/des.../spd/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/daar10_h80e

It is not like they cannot bulk sales to Hp, Dell, best buy, new egg and many other clients.


If it was only direct sales to miner, would you not be able to get a single play station 5 to play games.... ?
Click to expand...
What'd make you believe that?
How many consoles do you believe are made compared to graphics cards?
I can tell you...a whole lot less.
If a PC gamer cannot get the components to build his/her gaming rig, what is the next best option for those who aren't hard-core PC?....Answer: console. Hence the shortage.
 
If this continues for another few years I could see PC gaming becoming a niche hobby only or mostly for the wealthy. that would affect game development eventually.
 
Some would say it's already a niche hobby and has always been so to one degree or another. Going off past history the shortage will subside eventually one way or another. If that's wrong and it's permanent it is hard to know for sure what the effect would be long term. There are some people who have the disposable income to buy a scalped graphics card and would continue to pay that pricing because they enjoy the hobby that much.

Gamers get the majority of graphics cards produced not miners. It seems evident to me at this point that regardless of the merits or lack thereof for the justification, the entitlement mentality does exist with gamers. Many of them do feel they are owed a card and for the price they feel is justifiable. I don't personally approve of that but at this point it doesn't really matter what anyone's feelings are here.

The situation is beyond our control and simply IS.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
Some would say it's already a niche hobby and has always been so to one degree or another. Going off past history the shortage will subside eventually one way or another. If that's wrong and it's permanent it is hard to know for sure what the effect would be long term. There are some people who have the disposable income to buy a scalped graphics card and would continue to pay that pricing because they enjoy the hobby that much.

Gamers get the majority of graphics cards produced not miners. It seems evident to me at this point that regardless of the merits or lack thereof for the justification, the entitlement mentality does exist with gamers. Many of them do feel they are owed a card and for the price they feel is justifiable. I don't personally approve of that but at this point it doesn't really matter what anyone's feelings are here.

The situation is beyond our control and simply IS.
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How do you know gamers get the majority of cards produced?
 
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