So I went with the i7 7700k instead of the Ryzen 1800+

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by Grimlaking, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking [H]ard|Gawd

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    I was anticipating building my box, had a nice MSI motherboard and the 1800+ on pre order.. Also ordered the storage and cooler and ram already at this point and had all of those on hand.

    Friday gets here and my AMD hadn't shipped yet but the benchmarks came out. AMD was not really contending in IPC, it could do MORE simultaneous threads but that was proving to not be what games (what I use my system for most all) is used for.

    So I went and checked my pre order.. still in pre order status and I bit the bullet cancelled it and ordered Intel with a good MSI Intel motherboard. (Have had great results with this brand.)

    Got it.. did my rebuild of my system cleaning out all of the dust from nearly 6 years of not changing parts out other than the Video card and Hard drive.

    Booted and installed my OS...

    Did a modest overclock...

    Downloaded my games and did a bit of game testing... with amazing results.

    Noticed something...

    Maybe it's just my age and I am mroe methodical now than I was as a young IT and computer enthusiast. Maybe I've just built so many it's rote.. but I didn't have an issue.

    NOT ONE. My drivers installed clean, my OS was clean, my OC was clean, my build was drama free.. I.. I... I missed all of the issues around going to a new platform... and new hardware. It was DRAMA free..

    Now I go to the Ryzen forums because I want to see this platform do well.

    I read the threads... and there isn't one without someone talking about how their build is bad, or their system isn't stable without a BIOS update, or how windows isn't managing something right, or how they can't get reliable temperature readings from their CPU thanks to any combination of the above...

    I'm just subtly relieved I can go home... unlock my desktop and game.. No drama other than WOW drama. It's so nice!

    But a small part of me.. DOES kind of miss the grind of troubleshooting the new hardware!
     
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  2. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Glad to hear your enjoying your new system. Tho on the ryzen side most issues have been overclocking related, but yeah no doubt the platform is raw. But these are so simple to me compared to when I had a VIA chipset and my old slot A Athlon chip. Now that was fun just making it work, plug and pray and all that fun. Tho I was quite proud once I got it up and working properly and man did it haul ass, just didnt know the clock wars were about to begin and I thought 550 mhz sounded fast. I always love tinkering more than anything, sound like you enjoy it as well. Enjoy your new system.
     
  3. RAutrey

    RAutrey [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah man. The secret to stable AMD/VIA systems was to not slap it all together but rather build with installing only the bare minimum hardware you needed to get the system to run (i.e. mobo, cpu, mem, vid card, hdd, cd drive), install OS, install chipset drivers, install vid card drivers, add remain components one by one and install associated drivers after each addition. Once I figured that out my AMD/VIA problems went away.

    Enjoy the new rig grim.
     
  4. auntjemima

    auntjemima 2[H]4U

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    This is an insane requirement for a stable system.
     
  5. RAutrey

    RAutrey [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah well that was close to 20 years ago ;)
     
  6. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Come on man, dont remind me how long ago that was :)
     
  7. CompletelyBrokn

    CompletelyBrokn n00bie

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    Wow....was it really that long ago? My first real PC gaming experience (I don't count the Tandy with Mega man lol) was on a Celeron 500 and Voodoo 3 3500. Half life, Unreal, and counter strike beta. And Napster when downloading mp3s was a thing. My brother had that system built. For those who don't know what they have now....

    Dual Celeron 500mhz (slocket with the dual cpu leads resoldered that they removed for the Celeron as they were stripped down Pentium 2s)
    256mb(MB not GB) of Ram
    Tyan dual slocket board
    Scsi 10k rpm 20gb HDD
    Voodoo 3 3500 16mb (again, not GB)
    4x CD burner (not DVD)
    17" CRT
    Altec Lansing 4 speaker w/ sub
    us robotics dial up modem
    Orange clear sided case (like the old iMacs lol)
    Don't remember the PSU but it had one
    Total cost in 1999 = $3000

    He borrowed the money from a loan company while working at Dominos in high school. So terrible.....lol Now my kids are playing on computers I built. I feel old...I'm going to go tear some robots heads off now on robo recall to feel better.
     
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  8. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    What you get is really just the expected experience.
     
  9. caltech31

    caltech31 [H]Lite

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    I don't think I have ever had a personal install go seamlessly - it's almost a rights of passage for something to fuck up (my earliest memory of this was trying to install the Global Win Fop 38 cooler on an AMD Duron - you had to apply an insane amount of pressure with a flat head screw driver and my hand slipped).

    Nothing quite like the moment you press the power button and pray to hear POST (or that sickening feeling when you hear nothing, and you get the no signal message on your monitor).

    Strangely, every system I have built for family and friends has been effortless. It's only when I'm building my own system that screw ups happen.

    OP, I'm glad your enjoying your new system. Times have certainly changed when overclocking is literally a push of the button.
     
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  10. Slade

    Slade 2[H]4U

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    These new mobos and their odd beeping noises. I almost skipped a heart beat hearing them the first time I turned on the system. I was like why 4-5 beeps? wtf is 4-5 beeps mean??!?? Even the manual says that beeps can't be trusted for proper diagnosis. I'm sure all of us here recall the LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG single beep error message. (Memory problem I think)
     
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  11. Iching

    Iching [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've been using Intel Wolfdale. Whoever was egging people on buying Ryzen should be punished.
     
  12. mICKEL

    mICKEL Limp Gawd

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    The only problem I had with my Skylake build was sometimes it would freeze playing Netflix or Amazon Prime videos. Every thing stock. It did it with Intel video and GTX 970. I kept hoping driver updates would fix it. But no. It was the third or fourth BIOS update that fixed it. It was an Asrock problem. My Kaby has had no hitches at all.
     
  13. Stealtharsenal

    Stealtharsenal n00bie

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    I picked up both a 1800x and a 7700k system for testing purposes. I especially wanted to test the x1800x against my 5820K at 4.4. I will say this, the Ryzen was impressive, but I ended up returning it anyway. This was primarily because I was building up a second system for a 1080p scenario as opposed to my 1440P primary rig. However, in comparison to my 5820K, mind you I didn't compare it against a fresh Windows install, the Ryzen setup was marginally better in games. Multi-thread forget about it, but the then again the 5820k isn't a dog by any stretch of the imagination. My thoughts were to allow the architecture to mature and maybe give it another go in say 6 months.
     
  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Limp Gawd

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    AMD been out of game for long, so a lot manufacture has no clue on AMD stuff, once they understand more within few month, ryzen will be good. With 6-8core become mainstream, game developer will utilized that in the future, they already doing it on console. if I upgrade right now, ill choose whatever is the best deal, if doing after 6 month, ill be going to ryzen, provide they get the bugs fixed.
     
  15. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yep that's the way to do it. I was upgrading then and went with the best deal at the time. I've never really gone that high end on my components... and it is nice.
     
  16. PliotronX

    PliotronX [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've definitely gotten spoiled by post-Nehalem boards as the experience has been the same but the beauty is that we have choices again. We can get the most performance for the programs we desire and maximize our hard earned doll hairs. I don't expect many actual glitches with quality boards of any platform these days because my roommate had the same experience with his 880 board with an FX6300, very easy breezy lemon squeezy. Just a bit higher power consumption and lower performance :D. I don't miss the intense trouble shooting one bit. I do it day in and day out on Dells and HPs.
     
  17. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Consoles have been 6-7 threads for more than 10 years. The optimal thread count on the current consoles is 4 threads due to the 190 cycle latency to the second cluster.

    And OEMs knows exactly what they buy.
     
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  18. Slade

    Slade 2[H]4U

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    I think a benefit I've yet to realize is the power savings of a kaby lake vs old 920/x58 platform. I'm running more 1.0 more ghz, more ram and all 140mm fans and a 1k PSU yet, its consuming less power running 5.0 all the time compared to a 2.4 idle/4.0loaded i7 920 @ 4.0ghz. I think going back 7 years, I've been running the equivalent of a mini fridge 24/7.
     
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Limp Gawd

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    I'm refer to multi core. as for thread etc, architecture of ryzen is also different than console. we just have to wait and see if developer will take advantage of mainstream 6-8cores. there is no deny many apps benefit from multi-thread/core, its just a matter of developer ant to take advantage of that or not. looking at FX game performance of now vs 2500k, its obivious FX is better than it were during lunch.
     
  20. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    The FX is in worse shape than at release vs the 2500K. Its gone downhill and not uphill.
     
  21. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think that in your heart of hearts, your gut feeling, and of course with the delay ... cancelling was the right thing and apparently so. The Ryzen forum feedback not only hit home, but validated your decision.

    Here's why.

    While all those cores are nice, the truth is, they are very very rarely used by end users. Over the last few months I've heard literally hundreds upon hundreds of people say they are looking forward to using handbrake. The real truth is, maybe a few dozen 'might' have used the software once or twice, if that.

    At the end of the day and this is according to the Steam end-user hardware numbers, 70% of gamers still run a 1080p resolution. As we all know, Ryzen doesn't shine here very well, at least at the moment. And do not let ANYONE tell you it's just 3 to 5 frames difference. That's pure fantasy and bullshit. The numbers that are out there are all over the internet. It's 15 - 20 - 30 - 50 frames difference with Intel.

    The meat and potatoes of everyday computing still finds it's greatest benefit from Intel's first 4 cores. Also, if you happened to have a Microcenter near you and you may as they have I think 26 locations, the 7700K is only $270 dollars with the Motherboard bundle discount. And that's a real savings as Microcenter also matches or beats Newegg or Amazon and def everyone else. So for gaming, your ahead with Intel not to mention on price and compatibility as well. And I used the word compatibility to express everything just works ( most of the time ) at highest level with Intel

    2nd, there are still a lot of optimizations that need to be made. There's board revisions, new chip revisions / stepping, firmware, drivers, OS internals, etc. You or anyone else is going to benefit by waiting. In 12 months I wouldn't be surprised if the Ryzen platform isn't 5% or 10% faster. That's of course a very uneducated guess / opinion.

    Also about 3 or 4 days ago the WSJ ran an article about the very real possibility of a 16 core super Ryzen chip being in development.

    I think it's okay to wait. Honestly, it probably is not going to matter either way you may have done. I'm just pointing out a few tidbits.

    I'm in-love with AMD again and I'm glad to be feeling this way after many years of not having any real interest and or respect.

    I had an entire system of new components I could have taken back for a refund but didn't. The numbers were coming out, but also, learning from the past I knew it wasn't going to be smooth sailing. I basically followed my gut. Whatever it was, I just kept away.

    I think Ryzen 2 @ 7nm in 2019 is going to be a grand-fucking-slam. I can't wait. in 24 months when it ships the Ryzen platform is going to have matured exceedingly well.
     
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  22. BeerEngineer

    BeerEngineer n00bie

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    Jeez. Bringing back memories of K6 builds with voodoo add ons and Mechwarrior.

    Building pcs 20 years ago required a lot of patience. Not only that, but the user communities weren't mature like today.

    People purchased parts mail order
    People read reviews in magazines...
    Thank God for Kyle and HardOCP!
     
  23. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yea indeed.. Heck I remember going to botique computer shoppes in order to be able to SEE the parts I wanted to get and to talk to someone about the hardware.

    This was when a Fry's coming to town here in texas was a HUGE deal.

    Incredible universe was just AMAZING to shop at. It was one of the first stores to carry computer parts with everything else.

    Now the place to get your parts is Microcenter.
     
  24. s002wjh

    s002wjh Limp Gawd

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    the FX8000 series has better gaming performance now vs when it was released compare to 2500k
     
  25. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not too get off track too much but not just yeah, but, hell yeah to Microcenter. Love that place soooo much.
     
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  26. Pillars

    Pillars Limp Gawd

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    I've built (and returned) a Ryzen combo. It went together without issue, clocked fine and hit almost 3000Mhz on ram, 3.8 on CPU with the cheapo mATX Asus board and stock cooler. At high refresh settings (I drop settings to get 140+FPS) the Ryzen gets it up like an 80 year old man, even 1440p when I drop settings it struggles to put up high FPS. Reviews don't really show this problem fully.
    Fast forward to my 7700K replacement, CPU is a rocket! Stock Tim is crap.. but once that's fixed it does 5Ghz under a Noctua NH-L12! My fps is so happy. End if story.
     
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  27. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Take a look at gamegpu benches and try say it with a straight face again :)
     
  28. skeeder

    skeeder [H]ard|Gawd

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    Man compares a platform that has literally been unchanged since 2010 and says "it was drama free".

    um...no shit

    Go back to the sandy-bridge or gen 1 days. Plenty of drama, the Ryzen is a completely new design. Motherboard manufactures are still getting the heads around it because the specs were released to them so late.

    Truth is, the X1800 isn't meant for you. It never was, 8C16T is not for the gamer only pc builder. It's for the power user, the content creator, the rendering guys...it is designed to put intel's top flagships in its sights. And for the most part--it did that pretty well. (I encode all my blurays to hard drive, I'd love 8C's for that process alone).

    So now you have to ask yourself, based off the benchmarks of the new 4C8T Ryzen chips, was it worth the extra cash to go intel?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy of AMD--I just think comparing these two things against each other is comparing ridiculous.
     
  29. s002wjh

    s002wjh Limp Gawd

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    the ryzen is all around CPU, it can do anything well. 7700k can only do game well, anything use more-core/more-thread, it lag behind ryzen. as far as future, depend on how game developer coding to take advantage of more core and more thread. wait till ryzen 5, best bang for buck

     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  30. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking [H]ard|Gawd

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    Trust me guys I was on the cusp, had my pre order and everything for an 1800+. I wanted it to succeed.

    And I have zero expectation of game developers alienating 2 core let alone 4 core owners in the world of PC gaming. I HOPE they learn to scale so 8C+ CPU's have a distinct advantage.. but I have my doubts.

    Also if you bought the Ryzen 7 for encoding.. are you going to buy again potentially later this year for the 16C/32T CPU that AMD is rumored to be bringing to the enthusiast/workstation market? If not.. you're full of crap or you just bought too early.
     
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  31. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well they just patched DOTA for the Zen and the performance vastly improved. There is a running thread about this.

    So ther ya go.. heres to hoping that all games moving forward are thoroughly optimized for Zen.
     
  32. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking [H]ard|Gawd

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    I just read about that. WOOT good for Ryzen! (Wonder how it compares to the 6700/7700 now. )
     
  33. buttons

    buttons [H]ard|Gawd

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    You cant go wrong with the 7700k, its a mature platform with tons of boards to pick from. Mine has been drama free, but there is a qwerk which does not bother me. With my ram set to 2933 CL 15 on cold boot ill get an overclock failed message, i hit f1 and it boots to windows and runs stable for weeks so far. Took me 20 minutes to dial in a 25% overclock, but i only did that for benchmarking as the stock speed is plenty for my light gaming and mining digital currency.
     
  34. Iching

    Iching [H]ard|Gawd

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    Still it's a gimped CPU. Please.
     
  35. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Whatever.... oh whooptie do it gets 5 fps less at 100 plus already.

    So burned out on this coversation.

    Go buy one and use it. Until then you have no real concept of its real feeling. Benches are arbitrary and feeling it under use is entirely different.
     
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  36. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Slower but smoother? That could be measured if true, yet its not. Its called a placebo effect.
     
  37. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    I notice that all of you commenting negatively ... SHintai and Iching and others... all have Intel CPUs and have ZERO experience with running a Zen.

    You have absolutely no weight behind any of your commentary.
     
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  38. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Unlike you I can prove it. Examples:
    upload_2017-3-27_12-3-57.png
    upload_2017-3-27_12-3-42.png
    upload_2017-3-27_12-4-27.png
    upload_2017-3-27_12-5-24.png
     
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  39. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking [H]ard|Gawd

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    I really didn't mean this to be a debate thread. But as long as you guys and gals keep it civil I'm fine.

    Regardless of which CPU you went with.. Ryzen, or Intel 7700 you have a BAD ASS CPU that will be good for probably 5+ years. ENJOY IT!
     
  40. Emission

    Emission 2[H]4U

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    Congrats on your new system, it's always a fantastic feeling when everything just falls into place. That being said, the 7700K is absolutely the better choice for predominantly gaming. Hell, at 5 GHz it keeps pace with a stock 5820K in multi-threaded workloads, yet you have access to some pretty serious single-threaded performance as well.

    May you enjoy many years of trouble-free service! (y)
     
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