So duke nukem forever is almost done

Mortuus said:
What on earth makes you think the game is anyway near finish ? inside info from 3drealms or just speculations like year after year we all have and yet the game has not come..
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George Broussard is my cousin's girlfriend's sister's niece's boyfriend's aunt-in-law's friend and HE said so!! Mwahaha!
 
Well before they were doing it but they scrapped the whole project and put it on hold.

So for a couple of years they did nothing. When they resumed they realized everything was extremely out of date and started over.

But it really should be almost done now. If not more hookers are going to get killed by aliens.
 
phide said:
DNF will have no fewer than seven different DRM systems, far surpassing the record of three set by Atari's Riddick: Dark Athena. Four of them will require completely separate internet connections for online validation (you need four unique IP addresses). Two of them exist only as DRM layers for the other DRM layers, and one is thrown in as a DRM layer for the two DRM layers for the other four DRM layers ;)
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LOL!

That gave me a much-needed laugh. :D

I have to say, though, that I don't personally believe they can create enough of an aesthetic, no matter how much homage is paid to the original, that it would stand out from a genre over-saturated with so many titles in the genre today.

There would have to be such an immersive and outstanding atmosphere, combined with truly over-the-top gameplay, enemies, level design, such extreme creativity and a "re-imaging" of the original aesthetic, that I just don't think they could pull it off at this point.

Every aspect of the game would have to be incredibly in-depth and immersive, expansive and over-the-top, and create an experience with such massive aesthetic and replayability to, not only create such a cult following the original had, but to even stand out amongst the rest out there right now, that I just don't see it happening.

Ironically, I think part of the problem is it's been over-thought to death, and when you try too hard to "do it right", it forces creativity into a very narrow and linear direction.

As much as anyone who was so hardcore into the original, such as I was, I would love to see it happen, and witness a true "rebirth" of the original into a new era. Sadly, I just don't see it happening.
 
Homer's car comes to mind...

TheHomer.jpg
 
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Homer wasn't qualified to make a car, and he didn't have any prior success either :) I dont doubt the game will be awesome, but its just been hyped for too long and will never be able to live up to expectations. I've come to terms with it. Sigh.
 
is this one of those "lol heres duke nukem forever. but its not gonna be released for another 40 years" threads?
 
I wonder will they release the old duke nukem forever projects as a bonus
 
TheBuzzer said:
So, duke nukem forever is finally almost done. They used a heavy modded unreal 2 engine for the game. I really wonder what new catch phrases will duke shout out during the gameplay. Do you guys think they can earn back all the expense they spend on duke nukem forever?
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There have been plenty of movies they can steal their lines from, just like in the last one. What was edgy and cool back during duke 3d is just tired and cliche now. I expect dn4ever will be the same tired cliche ridden crap.
 
I've seen this thread before. Actually I see this thread a couple times a year for the past 10 years.
 
Ten years? That can't be right! I mean, DNF's only been in development for...well, wait...carry the two...ahh...never mind. Carry on!
 
FreddieKU said:
Did someone already post the list?
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Nope! Things created/achieved since the announcement of DNF or took less time than DNF's development cycle..

Code: 
Duke Nukem

    * Duke Nukem 64 (Nintendo 64 - October 1997)
    * Duke Nukem: Time to Kill (PlayStation 1 - 1998)
    * Duke Nukem: Zero Hour (Nintendo 64, - 1999)
    * Duke Nukem (Game Boy Color - 1999)
    * Duke Nukem: Land of the Babes (PlayStation 1 - 2000)
    * Duke Nukem: Advance (Game Boy Advance - 2002)
    * Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project (PC - 2002)
    * Duke Nukem Mobile (Sidescroller): (Mobile Phones - 2004)
    * Duke Nukem Mobile (3D): (Tapwave Zodiac - 2004, Mobile Phones - 2005)
    * Duke Nukem Mobile II: Bikini Project (Mobile Phones - 2005)

Final Fantasy:

    * Main Series
          o Final Fantasy VII
          o Final Fantasy VIII
          o Final Fantasy IX
          o Final Fantasy X
                + Final Fantasy X-2
          o Final Fantasy XI
          o Final Fantasy XII
    * Cell Phone Games
          o Before Crisis: Final Fantasy
          o Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII
          o Dirge of Cerberus: Lost Episode
    * Tactics Series
          o Final Fantasy Tactics
          o Final Fantasy Tactice Advance
    * Crystal Chronicles Series
          o Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
          o Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates
          o Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearer
    * Remakes
          o Final Fantasy Collection
          o Final Fantasy Anthology
          o Final Fantasy Chronicles
          o Final Fantasy Origins
          o Final Fantasy I & 2: Dawn of Souls
          o Final Fantasy III DS
          o Final Fantasy IV DS
          o Final Fantasy IV Advance
          o Final Fantasy V Advance
          o Final Fantasi VI Advance
    * Games Featuring Final Fantasy Characters
          o Ehrgeiz
          o Kingtom Hearts
          o Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
          o Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix
          o Kingdom Hearts II
    * Movies, Anime Series & Concerts
          o Final Fantasy: The Sprits Within
          o Final Fantasy: Unlimited, Entire Series
          o Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
          o Final Fantasy: Dear Friends, Entire World Tour

Grand Theft Auto:

    * Grand Theft Auto
          o Grand Theft Auto, Gameboy Color Port
    * Grand Theft Auto
    * Grand Theft Auto: London 1969
    * Grand Theft Auto: London 1961
    * Grand Theft Auto 2
    * Grand Theft Auto III
    * Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
    * Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
    * Grand Theft Auto Advance
    * Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories
          o Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories, PS2 Port
    * Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories
    * Grand Theft Auto IV

The Legend of Zelda:

    * Ocarina of Time
    * Majora's Mask
    * Oracle of Ages
    * Oracle of Seasons
    * The Wind Waker
    * Four Swords Adventures
    * The Minish Cap
    * Six remakes of previous Zelda titles for the Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance and Gamecube.
          o Link's Awakening DX, Gameboy Color
          o A Link to the Past, Gameboy Advance
          o Ocarina of Time, Gamecube
          o The Zelda Collector Edition, Gamecube
          o Classic NES Series: The Legend of Zelda, Gameboy Advance
          o Classic NES Series: Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, Gameboy Advance
    * Phantom Hourglass
    * Twilight Princess

The Sims:

    * The Sims
    * The Sims: Livin' Large
    * The Sims: House Party
    * The Sims: Hot Date
    * The Sims: Vacation
    * The Sims: Unleashed
    * The Sims: Superstar
    * The Sims: Makin' Magic
    * The Sims Online
    * The Sims 2
    * The Sims 2: University
    * The Sims 2: Nightlife
    * The Sims 2: Open for Business
    * The Sims (Console Port)
    * The Sims Bustin' Out
    * The Sims 2 (Console Port)
    * The Urbz: Sims in the City

Other Popular Game Series:

    * Over 75 games based in the MegaMan universe, and 12 games featuring MegaMan universe character cameos.
    * Over 50 games based in the Star Wars universe.
    * Mario has appeared in 58 different video games.
    * Every Massive Multiplayer Online game and expansion with the exception of Meridian 59.
    * Every Dance Dance Revolution and Bemani rhythm game
    * Every Pokemon game released outside of Japan.
    * Every Unreal, every Unreal Tournament, and every game that has used any of the Unreal engines.
    * Quake 2, 3, 4, and countless games that have used their engines.
    * Every Tony Hawk and extreme sport spin-off game.
    * Daikatana began development 10 days before Duke Nukem Forever- Unfortunately no one was made John Romero's bitch when it hit retail shelves on May 23rd, 2000.
    * 3DRealms and Remedy bring Max Payne and its sequel from concepts to finished games, porting both to Xbox and PS2.
    * Valve released both Half-Life 1 and 2, with several expansion packs and countless mods for each.
    * Every version of Counter-Strike and Counter-Strike Source were developed.
    * Every Thief game.
    * Black Isle was formed, released seven titles and was shut down.
    * The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and IV:Oblivion, and the entire Baldur's Gate series.
    * Wizards of the Coast has printed six Core Sets, 30 Expansion Sets of Magic: The Gathering. If someone bought one of every single card printed since DNF was announced, they would have a collection of approximately 101,742 cards.
    * Every installment of Metal Gear Solid released to date, as well as Ghost Babel (MGS for the Gameboy) and the Metal Gear Acid series for PSP. And it is likely that the the apparent conclusion of Solid Snake's legacy, "Guns of the Patriots," will come out before DNF.
    * A garage full of programmers in Croatia (Croteam) developed the engine and created the game Serious Sam. Since then there have been multiple sequels and console ports- all off a fraction of the money 3D Realms has blown on DNF's development.
    * Every 3D Prince of Persia game.
    * Aside from Wolfenstein 3D, every single First Person Shooter based during World War II, including the entire Medal of Honor series.
    * While DNF has been in production, Blizzard Entertainment, another studio famous for delays, has released four full games(Starcraft, Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and World of Warcraft), with expansions for all of them.
    * Bioware released Neverwinter Nights with two expansions, Star Wars: Nights of the Old Republic, and Jade Empire. All games are deep, lengthy RPGs that demand multiple playthroughs.
    * The entire Halo trilogy.
    * Every Gran Turismo game.
    * Team Fortress 2

Video Game Systems:

    * Microsoft XBOX
    * Microsoft XBOX 360
          o Several revisions including the Elite and Halo Edition
    * Nintendo GameCube
    * Nintendo Wii
    * Nintendo Gameboy Color
    * Gameboy Advance
          o Gameboy Advance SP
          o Gameboy Micro
    * Nintendo DS
          o Nintendo DS Lite
    * Sega Dreamcast
    * Sony PSone
    * Sony Playstation 2
          o Sony Slim Playstation 2
    * Sony Playstation 3
          o Several revisions with different hardware, pack-ins, and backwards compatibility options
    * Sony PSP
          o Sony PSP Slim

    * Over 4500 games were released for the above video game systems in the United States.
    * Over 350,000,000 consoles and handhelds were sold worldwide.

Fun Facts
Computers & Internet:

    * In 1997, the fastest consumer internet connection was a 33.6 kbps modem. On average, consumer internet connections are 300 times faster today.
    * When Duke Nukem Forever was announced, the fastest processor available to consumers was a 233Mhz Pentium. Since then the clock speed of consumer processors has increased over 16 times (32 times counting dual cores), and the fabrication process has decreased from 250nm to 65nm.
    * In October of 2001, Apple announced the iPod and Slashdot dismissed it as an immediate failure. Since then there have been 5 generations of iPods, as well as the iPod Mini, iPod Shuffle, and iPod Nano with 42 million iPods sold worldwide as of 1/06.
    * Steve Jobs was still running NeXT when Duke Nukem Forever was announced.
    * Every peer to peer file sharing program including Napster was developed.
    * In April of 1997, Google, eBay, and the term "weblog" didn't exist.
    * Linux gained at least 10 times the popularity it had while its kernel tripled in size.
    * Mac OS switched to UNIX and became the most highly regarded general purpose operating system on the market among the computing press.
    * Microsoft released 5 consumer-oriented versions of Windows and might release a Vista service pack or two before Duke Nukem Forever hits shelves.
    * Netscape Navigator 4 was released, Microsoft Internet Explorer destroyed it. Netscape 6 released on an entirely different rendering platform, Netscape dies, Mozilla foundation rises. Open-source Mozilla browsers become popular and force Microsoft to start working on new version of Internet Explorer.
    * Valve releases Steam and sets a new standard in digital software distribution.
    * MySpace has gone from beta to the largest social-networking site in the world (and the fourth most popular English language website).
    * Every GeForce and Radeon graphics card.
    * The first online casino went live in 1997, since then the industry has doubled in size every year. As of 2008, worldwide online casinos are worth close to $300 billion dollars, with a largest single jackpot of just over $4 million dollars from a 5-reel 20-line online slot machine. Internet gambling has revolutionized random number generation, with some sites using everything from Earth's atmosphere to site-wide user mouse movements as numerical seeds for slots, poker, and everything else. 

Disasters:

    * Two Boeing 767 airplanes crashed in to both World Trade Center towers, killing 2750 and spawning countless conspiracy theories.
    * There have been 125 tropical cyclones. 73 hurricans in the Atlantic, 52 typhoons in the Pacific.
    * There have been over 20 death-toll producing tornado outbreaks in the United States.
    * Over 50 major earthquakes have shaken the world, which have shortened the Earth day by 2.68 microseconds.
    * Hurricane Katrina wiped New Orleans off the map and killed 1,836 in the process.
    * The fourth most powerful earthquake recorded since 1900 triggered a massive tsunami killing over 200,000 people in various countries bordering the Indian Ocean.

Economy:

    * Adjusted for inflation, the average price of gas in the United States has doubled.
    * The Euro was introduced as a new European currency.
    * Enron has filed for bankruptcy and folded. Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling have been arrested on fraud charges and subsequently indicted and convicted. Ken Lay is now dead and Jeff Skilling is rotting away in prison.
    * Apple's market cap exceeded Dell's.
    * Nintendo became the second largest company in Japan.

Movies that were filmed, released in theatres, and have made it to DVD:

    * All three Star Wars prequels.
    * The entire Lord of the Rings trilogy, with extended editions.
    * Every Pixar movie aside from Toy Story.
    * Three (possibly four) James Bond films.
    * Every movie, animation, and video game from The Matrix series.
    * Every Marvel comics movie released.
    * Each predictable twist ending of every movie by M. Night Shyamalan.
    * In the same vein, the DVD format was finalzed and the DVD forum agreed on the HD-DVD format.

Pop Culture:

    * Britney Spears' entire musical career as a pop star has taken place during Duke Nukem Forever's development.
    * Theater box office totals since the announcement are over $2.62 billion.
    * Colin Farrell's entire movie career has also taken place during development.
    * The concept of Bullet Time has been developed, pioneered, and completely run in to the ground.
    * Cellular Phones ownership has become commonplace, whereas in 1997 they were viewed as luxurious expenditures.
    * The entire cult following of Family Guy! Family Guy has debuted on FOX, been cancelled, entered syndication, been released on DVD, redebuted on FOX, and seen the release of a feature film.
    * The entire Harry Potter series as well as five movies.
    * Stephen King has written 16 novels.
    * The first episode of South Park was first aired on August 13, 1997, the same year in which DNF was announced. The show is now in the second half of it's tenth season, with 'Tsst' being the 146 episode shown.
    * King of the Hill first aired on January 12 of the same year, around the same time prototype work was being done in the Quake Engine for DNF. It recently finished it's tenth season, with 201 episodes.
    * The episode count of 'The Simpsons' has more then doubled since DNFs announcement. Season 8, episode 23 was the 176th episode, and aired on May fourth, 1997. The 352nd episode aired on May 1st, 2005.
    * Twelve seasons of Survivor. The Thirtenth comes this fall.
    * The ending of Star Trek shows Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and the beginning and ending of Enterprise, plus the films First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis.
    * Joss Whedon showed us that he truly is our master with every Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Angel, and Firefly episode. (Oh, and the movie Serenity.)

Science & Technology:

    * The Voyager 1 spacecraft has travelled 8.8 billion miles from Earth.
    * The two Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity were proposed, authorized, announced, designed, launched and successfully landed upon Mars where they have been exploring the surface for over 2.5 years.
    * NASA's Deep Impact program also went full circle.
    * The International Space Station was assembled and has been orbiting Earth for over 8 years.
    * NASA has launched 30 manned space shuttle missions, Russia has launched 17.
    * The Airbus A380 "Super Jumbo" plane was designed, built, tested, and delivered to airlines.
    * Tier One developed, built, tested, and launched SpaceShipOne- winning the Ansari X-Prize for being the first non-government organization to launch a reusable manned spacecraft into space twice within two weeks.
    * In 1997 there were only 50 million US cell phone subscribers in the United States. Today there are more than 200 million, which amounts to over 60% of the population of the USA.
    * The U.S.S. Ronald Reagan (the largest nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in the world) was in contract, built, launched, comissioned, and began active duty.
    * Costa Concordia, the biggest Italian cruise liner was designed, built and delivered by the Fincantieri shipyards, in Italy.
    * The Space Shuttle Columbia burnt up during re-entry, the entire Space Shuttle program went through a safety overhaul, and the Shuttle returned to flight.

Sports

    * The single season home run record has been broken, twice.
    * Barry Bonds set a new all-time home run record.
    * The Red Sox broke their curse by finally winning the world series.
    * Two of the greatest NBA Dynasties in history have reigned and ended: The incredible 1990s Chicago Bulls dynasty were still unmatched in '97 and disbanded after the '98 finals. The Los Angeles Lakers acquired Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal in '97 and Phil Jackson in '99, effectively becoming the greatest team in the NBA at the time with another landmark dynasty that lasted from 2000-2002. The Lakers disbanded after losing the finals to the Pistons in 2004.
    * There have been five Olympic Games (three winter, two summer).
    * Lance Armstrong won the Tour de France 7 consecutive years.
    * The World Wrestling Federation has changed its name to World Wrestling Entertainment and bought its two main competitors, WCW and ECW, relaunching ECW, and facing new competition from TNA.
    * The Cubs have lost 798 games since April '97.
    * St. Louis Cardinals moved from Busch Stadium to new Busch stadium.
    * Philidelphia Phillies moved from Veterans Stadium to Citizens Bank Ballpark.
    * The Houston Astros moved from the Astrodome to Enron Field (Now Minute-Maid Park).
    * The Cincinnati Reds moved from Cinergy Field to Great American Ballpark.
    * The Milwaukee Brewers moved from County Stadium to Miller Park.
    * The San Diego Padres moved from Qualcomm stadium to Petco Park.
    * The Pittsburgh Pirates moved from Three-River Stadium to PNC Park.
    * The Detroit Tigers moved from Tiger Stadium to Comerica Park.
    * The Seattle Mariners moved from The Kingdome to Safeco Field.
    * The Montreal Expos are now the Washington Nationals.
    * The Arizona Diamondbacks and Tampa Bay Devil Rays were formed.
    * The Cleveland Browns turned into the Baltimore Ravens.
    * A new Cleveland Browns team was formed and moved into a new stadium.
    * The Cincinnati Bengals moved from Cinergy Field to Paul Brown Stadium.
    * The New England Patriots moved from Foxboro Stadium to Gillete Stadium.
    * The Tennessee Titans moved into The Coliseum after 3 years at a college football stadium.
    * The Pittsburgh Steelers moved from Three-Rivers Stadium to Heinz Field.
    * The Denver Broncos moved from Mile High Stadium to Invesco Field.
    * The Washington Redskins moved from RFK Stadium to FedEx Field.
    * The Phildelphia Eagles moved from Veterans Stadium to Lincoln Financial Field.
    * The Tampa Bay Buccaneers moved from Houlihan Stadium to Raymond James Stadium.
    * The Detroit Lions moved from the Silverdome to Ford Field.
    * The Seattle Seahawks moved from the Kingdome to Qwest Field.
    * Brette Farve set a new all-time passing touchdown record while the careers of Ryan Leaf and Cade McNown began, sucked, and ended.

United States Politics:

    * The Identity of Deep Throat has been revealed.
    * 40 new members have been elected to the Senate.
    * The national debt has increased by over 3 trillion dollars.
    * Bill Clinton finished his presidential term, George W. Bush was elected and re-elected.

World Events:

    * 4 nations have acquired nuclear weapons technology.
    * 19 wars have begun.
    * 5 wars have ended.
    * Approximately 509,373,306 people have died and 661,373,082 have been born.
    * There have been 7 total solar eclipses and 8 total lunar eclipses.
    * The United Kingdom handed sovereignty of Hong Kong to the People's Republic of China.
    * There have been 22 "major" school shootings worldwide.
    * The population of the world has crossed six billion

Things that have taken less time than Duke Nukem Forever's Development:
Pop Culture:

    * The Beatles formed, released every single one of their albums and broke up. During this time they also toured the world several times.
    * Led Zeppelin released 7 albums, 9 singles, and toured around the world, crossing international borders 27 times (not counting mainland Europe.)

Science & Technology:

    * The Wright brothers designed and flew the first airplane.
    * The theory of General Relativity.
    * The United States' entire program to put a man on the moon, from Kennedy's challenge to the landing.
    * The complete construction of many monumental buildings and engineering projects. To name a few-
          o The Empire State Building (Jan 1930 - May 1931)
          o The Channel Tunnel (Dec 1987 - May 1994)


Wars:

    * The American War for Independence
    * The United States Civil War
    * World War I
    * The United State's involvement in the Vietnam War.
    * World War II and the entire Manhattan Project. Yes, even the complete development of the atomic bomb took less time.
 
I swear if this ever comes out I'll buy it out of principle alone.
 
MetalX said:
I swear if this ever comes out I'll buy it out of principle alone.
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That is pretty much where I'm at also. I know it will never live up to the original, but you just cant own the game that holds the record for longest production time ever in the history of the known universe!
 
Hey gotta hand it to em though, its the biggest marketing ploy in gaming history, ten years and still goin strong! :cool:
 
the best duke nukem was the 2d side scrolling game that ran on an ibm 286. followed closely by duke nukem 3d.
 
They should just remake DukeNukem 3d on a modern engine. Not change the game play one bit. Just freshen up the graphics, physics, and sound to today's standards and release it. They might actually be able to manage that this decade. I'd be willing to bet it would sell fairly well too. Just forget about releasing DNF. DNF is nevermore imho.
 
phide said:
Ten years? That can't be right! I mean, DNF's only been in development for...well, wait...carry the two...ahh...never mind. Carry on!
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Actually it's been twelve. I remember reading about it in an issue of PC Gamer back in '97 when they were still using the original Quake engine. So seventy-something more issues are left for the milestone. Now, how many milestones are left is the real question?
 
Even if it does get released this season, I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out on Consoles first...then a few months later on PC (and even more unoptimized as Crysis/GTA4).
 
TheBuzzer said:
DRM layers,

First layer, cd key, second layer cd check, 3rd layer steam, 4th layer tags, 5th layer securerom, 6th layer online check, 7th layer custom in map protections
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A game this hyped up and anticipated will gather all the hacker attention. I think the game will be stripped of all its DRM in 1 week at the latest.
 
If 12 years = ~90% then we have like what... 1.2 years to go?
 
I think it's going to be a flop... it's like they're afraid to release it, it won't do anything special.
 
If you were working on one of the most scrutinized projects in this industry for twelve years, a project that has been going on far longer than any other and has become a benchmark for delays and a colossal in-joke unto itself...you'd be a little skittish too. If for no other reason than this: once 3D Realms finally releases DNF, they can't hide behind it any more for any reason. What are they going to do then, apart from possibly fading into oblivion?
 
It's one of those centuries-long projects. The Great Wall of China, the Pyramids, etc. Generations of families commissioned to help construct these epic projects. They build and die, and no one ever gets to see the end result.

No, we'll never play Duke Nukem Forever. Maybe not even our kids, or their kids.
 
Honestly, imho they are screwed even if they do release it. DNF would have to be PREFECT for people to look past he amount of dev time its had. Imagine if its an OK game, this line will be uttered alot:

"Well, its OK, but X years? it wasn't worth the wait"
 
But after this long, who thinks about DNF every day? Who is losing sleep because it isn't out yet? I don't even think about it until someone starts a new thread.

At this point, they ought to scrap the entire project and shift it towards virtual reality. Then it couldn't possibly fail. We would literally be able to kick ass and chew bubblegum then.
 
Rombus said:
Honestly, imho they are screwed even if they do release it. DNF would have to be PREFECT for people to look past he amount of dev time its had.
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I don't think thats true, cause it will be DUKE!!, come on, was any duke perfect?
 
GJSNeptune said:
At this point, they ought to scrap the entire project and shift it towards virtual reality. Then it couldn't possibly fail. We would literally be able to kick ass and chew bubblegum then.
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You sir, deserve a cookie.
 
I wonder if Megadeth will still be around IF this game ever comes out.....
Whos gonna do the theme music then? 89 year old rockers? lol
 
Time, bah! Prey was announced in 1995, shown a couple late 90s E3s, but wasn't released until 2006. It turned out to be a pretty decent game that sold well, so I wouldn't count Duke out at this point.
Personally, I dont care how long it has taken. I played the Duke games when they came out and still look forward to DNF.
 
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