Snowden Nominated For Nobel Peace Prize

SBSuperfly said:
Al Gore falling on his sword? How so? He's make dump trucks full of money pimping the farse that is climate change is man-made.
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yep, Al Gore positioned himself such that had the carbon-cap-and trade bill passed congress he would stand to make Billions with a capital B. that's money coming directly from industries and the taxpayers.

He talks about carbon pollution yet he lived in a giant mansion that pollutes as much as a couple of middle class families not to mention some of the other shenanigans of "do as I say and not as I do". I call that hypocrisy.
 
Allowing the US Government to impose the patriot act and this spying is hard to square up.
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We are the one's that did it? We the people, we allowed it to pass.
Passed the House on October 24, 2001 (Yeas: 357; Nays: 66)

Passed the Senate on October 25, 2001 (Yeas: 98; Nays: 1)

Signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001

This is our government, our system, and we were a part of it if we were old enough to have anything to say on the issue. You can stand there proud fist raise in indignation if you want, but those congressmen only did what we the people allowed them to do.

And that is why it was legal.
 
lcpiper said:
We are the one's that did it? We the people, we allowed it to pass.
Passed the House on October 24, 2001 (Yeas: 357; Nays: 66)

Passed the Senate on October 25, 2001 (Yeas: 98; Nays: 1)

Signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001

This is our government, our system, and we were a part of it if we were old enough to have anything to say on the issue. You can stand there proud fist raise in indignation if you want, but those congressmen only did what we the people allowed them to do.

And that is why it was legal.
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Cell phones today are not what they were in 2001
 
heatlesssun said:
Only if you're blind and don't know anything about the history of African-Americans in this country.
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just because he is black does not give him the merit for a noble his being elected was decided by the people having chosen the best of 3 bad candidates twice.

snowden has more merit for the prize as what he did involved committing treason because it was the right thing to do in his mind.
 
lcpiper said:
We are the one's that did it? We the people, we allowed it to pass.
Passed the House on October 24, 2001 (Yeas: 357; Nays: 66)

Passed the Senate on October 25, 2001 (Yeas: 98; Nays: 1)

Signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001

This is our government, our system, and we were a part of it if we were old enough to have anything to say on the issue. You can stand there proud fist raise in indignation if you want, but those congressmen only did what we the people allowed them to do.

And that is why it was legal.
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You need to correct your statement. They did what the lobbyist wanted them to do.
 
I do however agree with you that our founders would revolt again...
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I don't, all I see is a process that is working properly. We suffered really bad from 9/11 as a country, it hurt, we reacted. Laws were passed, some people were worried that the laws were a violation of our rights, that's being questioned again today. If you have the vision to see things beyond one day at a time then you can see this as well.

Nationwide prohibition did not begin in the United States until 1920, when the Eighteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution went into effect, and was repealed in 1933, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment.
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Or try the War powers Resolution on for scope.
Introduced in the House as H.J.Res. 542 by Clement J. Zablocki (D-WI) on May 3, 1973
Committee consideration by: House Foreign Affairs
Passed the House on July 18, 1973 (244–170)
Passed the Senate on July 20, 1973 (75-20)
Reported by the joint conference committee on October 4, 1973; agreed to by the Senate on October 10, 1973 (75–20) and by the House on October 12, 1973 (238–123)
Vetoed by President Richard Nixon on October 24, 1973
Overridden by the House on November 7, 1973 (284–135)
Overridden by the Senate and became law on November 7, 1973 (75–18)
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You need to correct your statement. They did what the lobbyist wanted them to do.
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What did you do about it?

Me? I did nothing, I thought about it, and figured if it looked like it was going to go bad, I could do something later, so I did nothing.
 
Cell phones today are not what they were in 2001
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The metadata database has phone number, call time, call duration. Had the same thing back then too. No difference at all despite the new tech, the same.
 
G1. Killer said:
So are you now making a generalization saying that anyone who is upset over this is a conservative?
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I'm making generalizations that anyone who's upset over this and specifically point out Obama and/or Gore (sometimes Jimmy Carter) but mention no one else (or no other bodies) of questionable merit are probably doing so more out of the political leanings more so than they think it was a poor choice. Yes.
 
I'm making generalizations that anyone who's upset over this and specifically point out Obama and/or Gore (sometimes Jimmy Carter) but mention no one else (or no other bodies) of questionable merit are probably doing so more out of the political leanings more so than they think it was a poor choice. Yes.
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I would have to agree with sfsuphhysics given this;

The Patriot Act;
Passed the House on October 24, 2001 (Yeas: 357; Nays: 66)

Passed the Senate on October 25, 2001 (Yeas: 98; Nays: 1)

Signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001
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lcpiper said:
We are the one's that did it? We the people, we allowed it to pass.
Passed the House on October 24, 2001 (Yeas: 357; Nays: 66)

Passed the Senate on October 25, 2001 (Yeas: 98; Nays: 1)

Signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001

This is our government, our system, and we were a part of it if we were old enough to have anything to say on the issue. You can stand there proud fist raise in indignation if you want, but those congressmen only did what we the people allowed them to do.

And that is why it was legal.
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passed 1.5 month after the terrorist hijacking when the country was still going omg things will never be the same some one make me feel safe.
 
BTW, that budget bill they passed a month ago, the one that also cut vets cost of living increases, it was touted as the only bill to be passed with such support in a decade, guess what the last one was they were referring to?
 
Lunas said:
just because he is black does not give him the merit for a noble his being elected was decided by the people having chosen the best of 3 bad candidates twice.
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Just because we was black meant he would have never been POTUS in the not so distant past.
 
lcpiper said:
What did you do about it?

Me? I did nothing, I thought about it, and figured if it looked like it was going to go bad, I could do something later, so I did nothing.
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What IS there to do? You vote one guy out, another hack replaces him with empty promises. There are no honest politicians.
 
The metadata database has phone number, call time, call duration. Had the same thing back then too. No difference at all despite the new tech, the same.
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Countless articles from varying publications disagree with you.
They had gone out to sea and tapped directly into transatlantic cables.
A group of people passing a law does not make that law legal.
Just because it passes through the system doesnt mean its up to snuff.
When they voted on the patriot act none of us had any say in the matter what so ever. You know that just as well as I do. The NSA's powers were never even told to us in any detail so to say that we had a choice and we knew is just an attempt to pass the blame over to people who had no say whatsoever.
Snowden is an actual American that still believes in freedom. Its clear that we are now going in the direction of soviet russia with the way we act and think.
 
passed 1.5 month after the terrorist hijacking when the country was still going omg things will never be the same some one make me feel safe.
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Doesn't change the fact that there was more then enough noise being made about it by privacy rights groups, etc. It wasn't unopposed, but it was passed by overwhelming support.

And as for things not being the same, maybe you weren't a grown adult then, but things haven't been the same? And no we still are not safe. Of course we obviously weren't safe before either.
 
Countless articles from varying publications disagree with you.
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Bullshit, the latest same exactly this from earlier this week and last week. It's known, proven accepted except by the ignorant who repeat the rantings of other ignorants or liars.
 
They had gone out to sea and tapped directly into transatlantic cables.
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Yup, been doing it since like the 60's before they even broke up Ma Bell, I know, and it's been public knowledge for about 25 years.
 
A group of people passing a law does not make that law legal.
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Now this is a turn, breathing air doesn't mean one is breathing.

It is legal, and it is constitutional until it is ruled unconstitutional. Then if ruled unconstitutional the law can be challenged and thrown out. Until that day the law is legal by it's very definition.
 
lcpiper said:
What did you do about it?

Me? I did nothing, I thought about it, and figured if it looked like it was going to go bad, I could do something later, so I did nothing.
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What did i do? I voted against the incumbent wherever i could. However that doesnt help when they are just as bad as the previous.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I'm making generalizations that anyone who's upset over this and specifically point out Obama and/or Gore (sometimes Jimmy Carter) but mention no one else (or no other bodies) of questionable merit are probably doing so more out of the political leanings more so than they think it was a poor choice. Yes.
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I made the comment originally. They are all poor choices if you read what is supposed to be the reason they are bestowing these awards for. I wouldn't consider myself left or right leaning, I look at each individual issue separately of the blue state/red state bullshit. It's why I can believe in being pro choice, legalizing weed and that gay marriage should be legal, but also that I think we should protect gay rights and that ACA is a steaming shitpile. I really hope your name means San Francisco state university physics. It would explain so much. Again not a generalization as I have been to that illustrious bastion of education and seen the free thought they have (sneak preview better agree with them.).
 
When they voted on the patriot act none of us had any say in the matter what so ever. You know that just as well as I do. The NSA's powers were never even told to us in any detail so to say that we had a choice and we knew is just an attempt to pass the blame over to people who had no say whatsoever.
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Unless you wrote your representatives or protested in the streets, or wrote articles in newspapers, or at least spoke with your work mates or neighbors, then you did nothing about it.

just how do you think that federal gun control legislation got stopped? I know, you believe that bullshit that it was the all powerful NRA and their lobbyists that stopped it. Dude, who do you think gives them that money? It's people like me that give them that money to help fight for what I want Congress to do. I write my Reps and Senator, I do something.

And again, in all truth, when they were passing the Patriot Act I did nothing and I got a law for it that I felt could still be undone if it proved to be a threat to my liberty.
 
lcpiper said:
And again, in all truth, when they were passing the Patriot Act I did nothing and I got a law for it that I felt could still be undone if it proved to be a threat to my liberty.
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You dont think the Patriot act is a threat to your liberty?
 
You dont think the Patriot act is a threat to your liberty?
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Not greatly, because of two reasons, the first is that the law itself is never truly the threat. the real threat comes from the people who are taking actions "justified" by that law. The law itself is words on paper, it takes people to make a law just or unjust.

Second, the Patriot Act in and of itself does not hamper the processes by which we can change or eliminate it. As long as we retain the means of fixing something that is broke, then we are not lost. Do you not see evidence of exactly this today?
 
Now this is a turn, breathing air doesn't mean one is breathing.

It is legal, and it is constitutional until it is ruled unconstitutional. Then if ruled unconstitutional the law can be challenged and thrown out. Until that day the law is legal by it's very definition.
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Breathing air means only one thing, that you breathed air. On the other hand a group of people are more than capable of claiming that something is what it is not.
Just so you know, this country has had many illegal laws that passed. Slavery was legal but if you were a intelligent thinker at that time and open minded you knew it was illegal. But I guess that would just be a turn...

What you are saying is that until they rule it unconstitutional then you will consider it legal even though it isnt. Essentially you are turning off your brain and just accepting what someone tells you.
The NSA has illegally snooped on every single american even though the agency was designed (its own mission statement) to collect data on foreign targets.
If you think that the founding fathers would have supported listening in on every single americans private conversation then we have two entirely different views of this country.
 
jdl said:
You dont think the Patriot act is a threat to your liberty?
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To some extent I do, but there have been FAR worse laws in regards to my liberty than the Patriot Act. There's always these battles to fight and this isn't anywhere near the more egregious things government in the US has done in terms of restricting freedom and liberty.
 
In fact, the agency is spying on everyone by keeping a detailed log of our private phone calls. This practice was sanctioned by secret court rulings that stretched the words of the Constitution and the Patriot Act beyond recognition. We couldn’t challenge these rulings because we weren’t allowed to know about them. When asked in March whether any such blanket domestic surveillance was taking place, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper lied to Congress and said no. In what universe is it “paranoia” to be angry about all of this?
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From the Goverment Panel that reviewed the NSA legality and practices.

First, the telephone records acquired under the program have no connection to any specific FBI investigation at the time of their collection. Second, because the records are collected in bulk — potentially encompassing all telephone calling records across the nation — they cannot be regarded as “relevant” to any FBI investigation as required by the statute without redefining the word relevant in a manner that is circular, unlimited in scope, and out of step with the case law from analogous legal contexts involving the production of records. Third, the program operates by putting telephone companies under an obligation to furnish new calling records on a daily basis as they are generated (instead of turning over records already in their possession) — an approach lacking foundation in the statute and one that is inconsistent with FISA as a whole. Fourth, the statute permits only the FBI to obtain items for use in its investigations; it does not authorize the NSA to collect anything. (Emphasis added).
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{NG}Fidel, don't bring up that trash. That panel was formed right after the 9/11 commission was formed, it produced it's first report one year later and when G.W. Bush ignored their recommendations only one of the 5 members had the guts to quit. The other four and the replacement stayed on, and within another year that temporary panel was turned into it's own Agency, yes, and agency of 5 with permanent jobs and then they did nothing until this report you are quoting from, over ten years of nothing but collect their money. they didn't even have a single meeting in all that time to even get together and try to do something. Now that their cushy jobs are on the line they are going to shit out a report that is critical of what people want to hear someone being critical of. And on top of that, two of the panel members are even saying that this report isn't even part of the job their agency is supposed to be doing.

You need to pitch that one in your Recycle Bin, it's useless.
 
lcpiper said:
We are the one's that did it? We the people, we allowed it to pass.
Passed the House on October 24, 2001 (Yeas: 357; Nays: 66)

Passed the Senate on October 25, 2001 (Yeas: 98; Nays: 1)

Signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001

This is our government, our system, and we were a part of it if we were old enough to have anything to say on the issue. You can stand there proud fist raise in indignation if you want, but those congressmen only did what we the people allowed them to do.

And that is why it was legal.
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Seriously, you cannot even put this on us. You're always harping about the media... come on man, you should be able to see how the media scared people into accepting this law as the solution to their fears.
 
chockomonkey said:
Seriously, you cannot even put this on us. You're always harping about the media... come on man, you should be able to see how the media scared people into accepting this law as the solution to their fears.
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Can't put this on the media, this is plain and simple fear that each and everyone had after 9/11. There was certainly a lot of debate about the Patriot Act but it was hard to oppose this bill after two of this country's tallest building were wiped off the map. It's hard to preach about freedom and liberty when 3,000 had just died.
 
In fact, the agency is spying on everyone by keeping a detailed log of our private phone calls.
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How, they don't know who the phone numbers belong to? that database is kept issolated and not cross-referenced with any other database. They are only allowed to bring IN a suspect phone number that they have from another source, and query this database for associated numbers. Then, if the evidence against the original bad guy as good enough, AND if the patterns and levels of activity of the numbers he has talked with are strong enough, then the FISA court will allow them to take those numbers to the carriers to see who they belong to. THEN, once they find out some of those numbers belong to US Persons, then they have to get a warrant to go any further against those US Persons, the rest, the foreigners, those they can just demand from the carrier and the carrier has to cough it up.

So at this point, maybe you still see the bulk metadata collection as "a detailed log of our private phone calls", and in one way you would be right, but it is not what some people make it out to be. As for the secret court, the existence of the FISA Court wasn't secret and it has been in existence since long before the Patriot Act and 9/11. The FISA Court was assigned new responsibilities following the Patriot Act and was charged with looking over the new programs to determine their legitimacy in constitutional law, furthermore the court was to make recommendations on how the NSA could proceed and stay within the lines. There were several years of false starts, one program was simply shut down because the court determined it wasn't the right way to do things. There is a bunch of information available on what went on and it's clear that it wasn't going to be an easy thing to pull off. And it's entirely possible that it can't be pulled off. But if you think all this was hidden from you it's only because you haven't been listening when they have been talking. You need to do much more reading if you don't remember years of arguments over the warrant-less wiretapping, and this is what they were talking about back then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_%282001%E2%80%9307%29

It wasn't as big a secret as people keep repeating.
 
lol at the obama comparisons.

one guy killed an unarmed 16 year old american citizen with a drone.

the other guy worked under the department of defense.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
lol at the obama comparisons.

one guy killed an unarmed 16 year old american citizen with a drone.

the other guy worked under the department of defense.
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I like your signature... I like it even more so because because I get worse health coverage now and pay 3 times more than I did 6 months ago...
 
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