Small business. Do we really need a traditional server? What about just having a file server?

doug_7506

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
3,247
Are server is starting to show its age and its time for a replacement. I am thinking that we really don't need to have a typical server. Right now we use our server for three things:
1. Host accounting software
2. Host time tracking software for employees
3. Host employee files - There are 10 employees who have computers and pull information from the server.

The cheapest I am looking at is over $2,000 between new server + install.

Is there a reason I couldn't just use build a decent W10 desktop and turn file sharing on?

Concerns:

Security - Currently, we have several people who are logging into the client computer instead of the server as the server doesn't support W10 clients. So having everyone log onto their client instead of the server wouldn't really change much. But, I wouldn't want anyone with our wifi password to be able to pull files off the server. Could I just create a homegroup and add each of the clients to it? This should allow me to password protect the data.

Internet - I am not 100% on how the internet is run, but the internet works fine even when the server is down. Would it be simple as unplug server and plug in new file server then set each client to pull from file server?

Is there anything I'm missing? Thoughts?

Thanks!
 
I generally wouldn't recommend using any desktop OS as a server outside of the home. Especially if you're dealing with critical data.

One, and don't take it personally, but if you don't have any idea how the network and routing is set up at the place, why are you replacing their servers? This is a recipe for disaster.

Two, you're going to need to nail down a lot more about the requirements for those accounting and time tracking software packages. That alone should give you an idea of server requirements. How much storage you need, and how you handle backups and such would be the next questions.
 
I generally wouldn't recommend using any desktop OS as a server outside of the home. Especially if you're dealing with critical data.

One, and don't take it personally, but if you don't have any idea how the network and routing is set up at the place, why are you replacing their servers? This is a recipe for disaster.

Two, you're going to need to nail down a lot more about the requirements for those accounting and time tracking software packages. That alone should give you an idea of server requirements. How much storage you need, and how you handle backups and such would be the next questions.

No offense taken.

I won't be the one doing the install or the migration from the server to file server. It is more of a question of whether is it something we need. Do we need to be investing so much money into a server for something we are using on a very limited basis right now.

Backup currently is raid drives + usb metal backup + offsite cloud backup (Acronis).
 
No offense taken.

I won't be the one doing the install or the migration from the server to file server. It is more of a question of whether is it something we need. Do we need to be investing so much money into a server for something we are using on a very limited basis right now.

Backup currently is raid drives + usb metal backup + offsite cloud backup (Acronis).

The question then just comes down to what those software packages require. If you can get them in an virtual appliance or "docker" form, then I'd say migrate to a SMB-grade NAS. Far, far easier to manage, far more secure, and much lower cost than a full server.
 
The question then just comes down to what those software packages require. If you can get them in an virtual appliance or "docker" form, then I'd say migrate to a SMB-grade NAS. Far, far easier to manage, far more secure, and much lower cost than a full server.

Well the accounting software is just the hosting of the datafiles.
The timetracking software actually runs on the server.

Thanks for your help btw

EDIT

The accounting software no longer supports a NAS install
 
Last edited:
Don't cut costs here that can bite you in the ass 100x harder down the road. How much downtime can you afford? What about data loss? How much money would you lose if the system was down for a day? week? month? That is the cost you should be focusing on first, then use that to determine how much you should spend to build a robust infrastructure.

Also think longer term. You don't want to cheap out now, then spend a lot more later to upgrade as the company grows.
 
You should look at the cheap Dell servers, like a PowerEdge T330 with at least two or more hard disks for redundancy.

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-t330/pd

I wouldn't get the cheapest one, I would do at least 8GB of RAM, heck the 16GB version is only over $1000.

Our company sells a lot of T330s with our customer OS on them and they are great.
 
Do not use something that isn't a server based operating system!
 
Thanks for all the help guys. You stirred me away from a W10 file server. Ended up ordering a Dell PowerEdge T130 with E3-1240 V5, 8GB ram, 2x1TB 7.2k HDDs, and Windows Server 2016 Essentials for $900.
 
Thanks for all the help guys. You stirred me away from a W10 file server. Ended up ordering a Dell PowerEdge T130 with E3-1240 V5, 8GB ram, 2x1TB 7.2k HDDs, and Windows Server 2016 Essentials for $900.

Good luck with getting everything moved over!
 
Didn't see any allowance for backups. If in doubt about need, read the ransomware posting on this forum. A USB portable HD would work well enough. Plug in, make backup, unplug. That way, any malware infection is unlikely to spread to the backup.
 
Didn't see any allowance for backups. If in doubt about need, read the ransomware posting on this forum. A USB portable HD would work well enough. Plug in, make backup, unplug. That way, any malware infection is unlikely to spread to the backup.

I assume he's reusing the items he listed earlier:
Backup currently is raid drives + usb metal backup + offsite cloud backup (Acronis).

Personally I'm a fan of virtualization. Virtualize the server infrastructure and create daily data backup as well as frequent guest VM backups. Restoring the system in the event of a failure is rapid and as easy as restoring the VM onto a new host and then reloading the data. I've literally restored an entire small company network (about 30 users) in a couple hours onto new hardware this way. Domain Controller. Network Shares. SQL Server. HTTP Server. Camera DVR Server.
 
I assume he's reusing the items he listed earlier:
Backup currently is raid drives + usb metal backup + offsite cloud backup (Acronis).

This is correct.

The thought process is:

Raid 1 disk mirror 2x1tb drives -- Seamless operation if 1hdd fails. Simply swap and rebuild.
USB Metal backup -- Full 1tb clone backup nightly via usb. Allows us to quickly disconnect this backup for bad storms. This would allow us to have a full clone in case the physical server get destroyed. This is done through Acronis.
Acronis Offsite cloud file backup -- Acronis constantly backups the file system to the cloud.

Thoughts?
 
This is correct.

The thought process is:

Raid 1 disk mirror 2x1tb drives -- Seamless operation if 1hdd fails. Simply swap and rebuild.
USB Metal backup -- Full 1tb clone backup nightly via usb. Allows us to quickly disconnect this backup for bad storms. This would allow us to have a full clone in case the physical server get destroyed. This is done through Acronis.
Acronis Offsite cloud file backup -- Acronis constantly backups the file system to the cloud.

Thoughts?

Two local methods and an off-site method is a good plan.

The only thing is to ensure you've tested each one!
 
raid1 really isn't a backup though... it's drive redundancy...

it's more for business continuity than a backup solution...

if you don't need business continuity (the ability to keep working with one drive failed) then you'd be better off breaking the raid and just using the 2nd hard disk as a backup store...
 
raid1 really isn't a backup though... it's drive redundancy...

it's more for business continuity than a backup solution...

if you don't need business continuity (the ability to keep working with one drive failed) then you'd be better off breaking the raid and just using the 2nd hard disk as a backup store...

I agree, but you have to draw the line somewhere when you're talking a small business. His current setup should be able to handle most hardware/software failures and a major site catastrophe.
 
I agree, but you have to draw the line somewhere when you're talking a small business. His current setup should be able to handle most hardware/software failures and a major site catastrophe.
yea but....

it costs them nothing to break the RAID and just do regular backups to the extra drive... unless the first drive is full, you could do incrementals and keep multiple versions of your important files... it's pretty much better in every way... UNLESS you need the business continuity...

RAID1 will NOT protect you from file corruption (including encryption via a ransomware), fs corruption, accidental deletions, the list goes on...

also, you should definitely have your RAID controller set up to notify with any issues... otherwise your RAID1 is pretty much useless, you could have a failed or out of sync drive and never know about it.
 
yea but....

it costs them nothing to break the RAID and just do regular backups to the extra drive... unless the first drive is full, you could do incrementals and keep multiple versions of your important files... it's pretty much better in every way... UNLESS you need the business continuity...

RAID1 will NOT protect you from file corruption (including encryption via a ransomware), fs corruption, accidental deletions, the list goes on...

Well, SOME business continuity is important. You've only got one server, so some basic RAID is probably a wise choice.

RAID1 won't help for software issues, true. But incremental backups and such won't help your down-time in case of a drive failure either.

That's why I made the commend about small businesses, they do have to make some cost-based compromises. If you've got the cash, run mirrored VM servers, RAID6 on both, two sets of local backups and full off-site. If you don't have the money, you have to make some choices. I don't think the OP's made a bad call here.
 
it is completely dependent on his business needs...

the reason i bring it up because someone started a sentence with:

I assume he's reusing the items he listed earlier:
Backup currently is raid drives ...


And i'm just making sure everyone realizes the implications with that... it's an often overlooked issue, especially by those new to systems administration...​
 
it is completely dependent on his business needs...

the reason i bring it up because someone started a sentence with:



And i'm just making sure everyone realizes the implications with that... it's an often overlooked issue, especially by those new to systems administration...​

All good IT guys have had to beat the "RAID is not backup" drum every now and then. If the OP had left it at that, I'd have jumped on it myself. But he went on with his overall backup scheme, which I thought was decent for a small business.

I do think I get where you're coming from though.
 
Most small business have a "I copy it to a flash drive every few months when I think of it" backup plan, so this is gold compared to the usual.
 
Great additions here. I really do appreciate all the helpful feedback.

SO, I decided to tweak my setup a bit.

Raid 1: Still going to keep the Raid 1 setup as it cost less than ~$200. While I know this is not a backup, but it does provide continuity, as mentioned, where the area of failure is most likely to occur. Even in my time here (less than 2 years) I've seen a HDD on the server fail and replacing and rebuilding did not interfere with our day to day operations. I will look into seeing how to setup notifications on the new server. Hopefully, Microsoft has something built in that will allow me to be notified if an HDD on the server goes down.

Local and Remote Backup of our File system: While tinkering with the setting last night on the server, I did come across the option to also do a full copy of the file system locally instead of just in the cloud. I will use an external 1tb HDD for this. Our cloud-based storage is limited to 500gb, but right now we are only using a measly 125gb. While we only keep the 2 most recent copies on the cloud, I should be able to keep 7 (a full week) on the local external HDD.

Local Metal (image) backup: This will be done also on a 2tb external HDD. This will give us a nightly image of the complete HDD.
 
Back
Top