Six Strikes Officially Begins On Monday

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OldPueblo said:
I want to start watching the new show The Americans, which is in the middle of a season. That means it's not going to hit DVD for awhile. It's not on Hulu on my Xbox though which is all I have attached to my TV, it's available web-only which means I'd have to gather my wife and I around my PC. So guess what I'm going to do? Who's the genius that made it web only? Not my problem, I'm going to watch it anyway. Now without ads because of some dumb Hulu/Network decision.

That's real life, that's where we are. I'm paying for a service that even offers it, and yet due to some stupid arbitrary decision I'm still going to torrent it. Shits crazy.
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I find myself in the same situation quite often. Lame and backwards, but I can't be bothered to download it even so.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Bullshit yourself. I've gotten brand new releases for $8-12 on their launch days pretty consistently thanks to the SD forums, and EXTREMELY often for $15ish. Once they're 3-6 months old I can generally get them for $12/less with ease, often 8 or below. Not everyone is silly enough to just pay retail when the shops are offering better.
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...

So first it's "$3-10", now five minutes later it's "$8-12". You can't even keep your argument straight, man.
 
OldPueblo said:
I want to start watching the new show The Americans, which is in the middle of a season. That means it's not going to hit DVD for awhile. It's not on Hulu on my Xbox though which is all I have attached to my TV, it's available web-only which means I'd have to gather my wife and I around my PC. So guess what I'm going to do? Who's the genius that made it web only? Not my problem, I'm going to watch it anyway. Now without ads because of some dumb Hulu/Network decision.

That's real life, that's where we are. I'm paying for a service that even offers it, and yet due to some stupid arbitrary decision I'm still going to torrent it. Shits crazy.
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All I keep hearing is the same thing GoldenTiger mentioned...
"WAAAA..." I don't want to pay for it, so I'm going to take it!!! WAAAA."
Seriously, just man up, pay for a basic cable subscription and stop complaining. Plus, what you said makes no sense. You said you don't want to gather around the PC, yet you're downloading it... onto your PC...?

MavericK96 said:
I call bullshit on that unless you are talking about REALLY old movies. Even then Blu-rays are typically anywhere from $15 to $30 apiece.
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Also, Redbox? DiscReplay? Gamestop?

OldPueblo said:
The severity is not the similarity. It's the fact that times change and you have to change with them. Come on I figured that'd be pretty obvious.
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grammatically, that's not what your words meant. And, still, it's a silly analogy. One relates to sexual discrimination, the other has to do with how you deal with your impatience.
Look, I love Game of Thrones. I don't have HBO. You know what I do? I wait until it's released in a format I want. If I wanted to watch it more than I do, I'd sign up for HBO. But I don't so, I dont't. I also don't feel entitled to take what i have not paid for.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Then buy it on dvd or bluray once it's available... it isn't your right to pirate it because you don't want to wait or pay the price :rolleyes:.
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Just curious:
What is the difference between having a movie recorded to a VHS tape and having on recorded to my computers' harddrive? I ask based on the idea that neither one is actually a "paid for" recording. I mean, aside from technical hardware specs.
 
MavericK96 said:
"Our" right? Excuse me, who the fuck are you?

Also..."infringing on livelihoods"...LOL.

And I thought your trolling was just confined to the Video Card forum... :rolleyes:
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Our right, yes, as in fellow citizens. You know, the people that make up a society? Oh, wait, I forgot you're a self-entitled "CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE" guy who looks for for #1.

And yes, you are infringing on others' rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, by effectively denying them income they may have otherwise made, whether you admit you would have bought them or not if you couldn't pirate them. You can't just make up your own anarchy-based rules for your actions, kiddo. We have laws for a reason as a society, and you are indeed agreeing to them by living here. If you don't want to be bound by society, go visit Iran, though I think you won't like what you find.
 
MavericK96 said:
...

So first it's "$3-10", now five minutes later it's "$8-12". You can't even keep your argument straight, man.
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Son, I was talking between mid-age releases and brand new releases. Reading comprehension, sir. Two different things.
 
Hopefully this will lead to a more bullet proof way of stealing content.
I am personally against stealing for any reason and have changed my old napster ways, but the MPAA and the RIAA are pure evil.

The bottomline is that the content sucks mostly anyway. People need to stop feeding from the hand that bites them.
 
Modred189 said:
All I keep hearing is the same thing GoldenTiger mentioned...
"WAAAA..." I don't want to pay for it, so I'm going to take it!!! WAAAA."
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Then you're not really reading/listening.

GoldenTiger said:
Our right, yes, as in fellow citizens. You know, the people that make up a society? Oh, wait, I forgot you're a self-entitled "CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE" guy who looks for for #1.

And yes, you are infringing on others' rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, by effectively denying them income they may have otherwise made, whether you admit you would have bought them or not if you couldn't pirate them. You can't just make up your own anarchy-based rules for your actions, kiddo. We have laws for a reason as a society, and you are indeed agreeing to them by living here. If you don't want to be bound by society, go visit Iran, though I think you won't like what you find.
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Okay, congrats, you've achieved epic troll level here. Moving on...
 
HardUp4HardWare said:
Hopefully this will lead to a more bullet proof way of stealing content.
I am personally against stealing for any reason and have changed my old napster ways, but the MPAA and the RIAA are pure evil.

The bottomline is that the content sucks mostly anyway. People need to stop feeding from the hand that bites them.
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If it's so shitty, why are people spending their time to pirate it? Talk about contradicting one's self...
 
Apparently GoldenTiger believes in a 1984-esque world where everyone spies on everyone and citizens police copyright law. :rolleyes:
 
prndll said:
Just curious:
What is the difference between having a movie recorded to a VHS tape and having on recorded to my computers' harddrive? I ask based on the idea that neither one is actually a "paid for" recording. I mean, aside from technical hardware specs.
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The quality.


Recording via VHS (or music on a cassette) was never considered a big issue because one cannot record the media at 100% quality. Furthermore, each subsequent recording of the recording would generate a further loss in quality.

With the digital methods today, one can record and create as many copies as one wants at 100% of the quality of the original.
 
prndll said:
Just curious:
What is the difference between having a movie recorded to a VHS tape and having on recorded to my computers' harddrive? I ask based on the idea that neither one is actually a "paid for" recording. I mean, aside from technical hardware specs.
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If you recorded it from the TV that you subscribe for, then that's not any different. However, simply downloading it from fellow pirates is not fair use, nor is it paying for it in any fashion.
 
MavericK96 said:
Apparently GoldenTiger believes in a 1984-esque world where everyone spies on everyone and citizens police copyright law. :rolleyes:
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LOL, wow.... you are VERY clueless. I have said nothing regarding that, in fact, I can sum up everythng I've said with two simple words that you should have learned in grade school history:

"social contract"
 
Modred189 said:
All I keep hearing is the same thing GoldenTiger mentioned...
"WAAAA..." I don't want to pay for it, so I'm going to take it!!! WAAAA."
Seriously, just man up, pay for a basic cable subscription and stop complaining. Plus, what you said makes no sense. You said you don't want to gather around the PC, yet you're downloading it... onto your PC...?
I'm manning up and taking care of it myself. I have a cable subscription, quite an expensive one with a DVR, but I wasn't aware of the show until it had already aired several episodes. I AM paying for it (Hulu too), but some idiot still managed to fuck it up somehow by not allowing it to be available on the Xbox via the Hulu app. Just like I already said, yet somehow you missed it. So keep hearing what you want to hear, I'll be watching The Americans on my Xbox on my own time. Ever hear of streaming from a PC to the Xbox, it's some new type of technology! The digital future is here!
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grammatically, that's not what your words meant. And, still, it's a silly analogy. One relates to sexual discrimination, the other has to do with how you deal with your impatience.
Look, I love Game of Thrones. I don't have HBO. You know what I do? I wait until it's released in a format I want. If I wanted to watch it more than I do, I'd sign up for HBO. But I don't so, I dont't. I also don't feel entitled to take what i have not paid for.
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Insert any analogy you want where we as mankind progressed except for a select few that refuse to give up old antiquated methods. How many stores do you hit these days that take only cash/checks? Very few because surprise we've progressed to electronic strip cards, NFC, paypal, etc. Have fun waiting on the media companies, enjoy your retirement!

For kicks I tallied up how much I pay MONTHLY for media subscriptions. It's roughly $200 a month. Sorry for that much money if I have to jump through any ridiculous hoops to see/hear what I want then hello torrents.
 
GoldenTiger said:
If you recorded it from the TV that you subscribe for, then that's not any different. However, simply downloading it from fellow pirates is not fair use, nor is it paying for it in any fashion.
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and if I watched it on tv that I do subscribe to then then download it afterwards?
 
GoldenTiger said:
If you recorded it from the TV that you subscribe for, then that's not any different. However, simply downloading it from fellow pirates is not fair use, nor is it paying for it in any fashion.
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So you're ok with recording it from your tv because you subscribe to the service? IF that is the case then wow, what an ass backwards view you have there. If that is not the case, ignore that statement.
 
Gah ignore that post ^^^^^

Originally Posted by Modred189
All I keep hearing is the same thing GoldenTiger mentioned...
"WAAAA..." I don't want to pay for it, so I'm going to take it!!! WAAAA."
Seriously, just man up, pay for a basic cable subscription and stop complaining. Plus, what you said makes no sense. You said you don't want to gather around the PC, yet you're downloading it... onto your PC...?
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I'm manning up and taking care of it myself. I have a cable subscription, quite an expensive one with a DVR, but I wasn't aware of the show until it had already aired several episodes. I AM paying for it (Hulu too), but some idiot still managed to fuck it up somehow by not allowing it to be available on the Xbox via the Hulu app. Just like I already said, yet somehow you missed it. So keep hearing what you want to hear, I'll be watching The Americans on my Xbox on my own time. Ever hear of streaming from a PC to the Xbox, it's some new type of technology! The digital future is here!

grammatically, that's not what your words meant. And, still, it's a silly analogy. One relates to sexual discrimination, the other has to do with how you deal with your impatience.
Look, I love Game of Thrones. I don't have HBO. You know what I do? I wait until it's released in a format I want. If I wanted to watch it more than I do, I'd sign up for HBO. But I don't so, I dont't. I also don't feel entitled to take what i have not paid for.
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Insert any analogy you want where we as mankind progressed except for a select few that refuse to give up old antiquated methods. How many stores do you hit these days that take only cash/checks? Very few because surprise we've progressed to electronic strip cards, NFC, paypal, etc. Have fun waiting on the media companies, enjoy your retirement!

For kicks I tallied up how much I pay MONTHLY for media subscriptions. It's roughly $200 a month. Sorry for that much money if I have to jump through any ridiculous hoops to see/hear what I want then hello torrents.
 
OldPueblo said:
Insert any analogy you want where we as mankind progressed except for a select few that refuse to give up old antiquated methods. How many stores do you hit these days that take only cash/checks? Very few because surprise we've progressed to electronic strip cards, NFC, paypal, etc. Have fun waiting on the media companies, enjoy your retirement!

For kicks I tallied up how much I pay MONTHLY for media subscriptions. It's roughly $200 a month. Sorry for that much money if I have to jump through any ridiculous hoops to see/hear what I want then hello torrents.
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Progressed? You mean regressed.
 
prndll said:
and if I watched it on tv that I do subscribe to then then download it afterwards?
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Not right if you ask me, as you then aren't obtaining it by a method you are actually paying anything for. Especially if it's also available on DVD/Bluray and you just download it rather than paying for a perpetual copy.
 
HardUp4HardWare said:
No contradiction here at all. They just do.

Why does a dog eat his own shit? Same thing.
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Saying something is so shitty you won't pay for it or spend anything on it, then spending the time to pirate it and watch it, indicates you did give it some worth because you just did that (your time to watch it, time to pirate it, worth having it). That inherently contradicts the supposed claims that it's "shitty" and undeserving of you.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Not right if you ask me, as you then aren't obtaining it by a method you are actually paying anything for. Especially if it's also available on DVD/Bluray and you just download it rather than paying for a perpetual copy.
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I'm not sure what you mean.....I did say tv that I subscribe to (legit...paid for)?
 
GoldenTiger said:
Saying something is so shitty you won't pay for it or spend anything on it, then spending the time to pirate it and watch it, indicates you did give it some worth because you just did that (your time to watch it, time to pirate it, worth having it). That inherently contradicts the supposed claims that it's "shitty" and undeserving of you.
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No man should have to watch the Twilight movies in full quality. Cam videos are the only way to stomach them.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Saying something is so shitty you won't pay for it or spend anything on it, then spending the time to pirate it and watch it, indicates you did give it some worth because you just did that (your time to watch it, time to pirate it, worth having it). That inherently contradicts the supposed claims that it's "shitty" and undeserving of you.
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You are not even trying to get my point.

I am saying it is shitty. "They" in this argument are the pirates.
My main point is that they should realize it is shit and go read a book.

I think you are too wound up from arguing in this thread, you should go take a time out in your "quiet spot".
 
OldPueblo said:
I'll be watching The Americans on my Xbox on my own time. Ever hear of streaming from a PC to the Xbox, it's some new type of technology! The digital future is here!
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All that effort to download and stream, when a $5 HDMI cable from your laptop to the TV would allow you to do the same thing, legit, getting the value you pay for that HuluPlus subscription...?

OldPueblo said:
How many stores do you hit these days that take only cash/checks?
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F'ing Costco. i mean, wth... (Off, topic rant, sorry!)
Those examples are irrelevant, though. The payment-method market is not the same. It has nothing to do with 'stealing' (piracy, whatever)/ infringement of rights etc. Remember, fi you're torrenting, you are uploading while you download.
OldPueblo said:
For kicks I tallied up how much I pay MONTHLY for media subscriptions. It's roughly $200 a month. Sorry for that much money if I have to jump through any ridiculous hoops to see/hear what I want then hello torrents.
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This is what I mean. Just because the system sucks doesn't mean you have a right to take what isn't yours.
 
Modred189 said:
All that effort to download and stream, when a $5 HDMI cable from your laptop to the TV would allow you to do the same thing, legit, getting the value you pay for that HuluPlus subscription...?


F'ing Costco. i mean, wth... (Off, topic rant, sorry!)
Those examples are irrelevant, though. The payment-method market is not the same. It has nothing to do with 'stealing' (piracy, whatever)/ infringement of rights etc. Remember, fi you're torrenting, you are uploading while you download.

This is what I mean. Just because the system sucks doesn't mean you have a right to take what isn't yours.
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How are you repeatedly missing this. I'm talking about progress, evolution, change, and you are like doo dee doo credit cards aren't TV!!. To do the HDMI workaround I'd have to buy a laptop wouldn't I, and then move my 5.1 stereo from my Xbox to the TV and then back again after. Just because women want to vote doesn't mean they have the right to! Change is inevitable. I'm actually a very law abiding person which is why I pay $200 a month for subscriptions. After all that money and effort, if I still have to wait months or pay even more then sorry the system is broken and I have zero guilt.
 
OldPueblo said:
How are you repeatedly missing this. I'm talking about progress, evolution, change, ...
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No, you're not. You're talking about being frustrated with the way the system is and deciding that it's too hard to do it legally, so you'd rather pirate. Your moral qualms, or lack thereof, are odd though... It's the people DOING the piracy that are causing the media industry to drag their heels. They are working SO HARD at locking down content that it's taking this long to do, and even when they do it, it's not great.

I mean, Hulu is nice, but it doesn't look or sound as good as real TV. Netflix on demand too. All because of crappy software, DRM laden and slow, with limiting licenses by the content industry (hence why people couldn't watch Groundhog day on... Groundhog Day this year (netflix didn't have enough licenses).
 
I just want someone to explain to me what the difference is between having a VHS recording and a harddrive recording when it's all done using hardware that I legitimately bought and paid for and tv services that is legitimately bought and paid for. Is it that using torrents or P2P means that digital recording isn't done with hardware I bought (because I do legitimately pay for internet access)? Is it that using torrents or P2P means also uploading to other people simultaneously (because it's not the downloaders fault that these things are designed that way)? What is the difference?

I've asked this many times before and I never get any kind of real answer. The best I can get is "one is legal and one isn't". That's not going to satisfy anyone when downloading is so easy to do and the AA's make everyone's life such hell.
 
Modred189 said:
No, you're not. You're talking about being frustrated with the way the system is and deciding that it's too hard to do it legally, so you'd rather pirate. Your moral qualms, or lack thereof, are odd though... It's the people DOING the piracy that are causing the media industry to drag their heels. They are working SO HARD at locking down content that it's taking this long to do, and even when they do it, it's not great.

I mean, Hulu is nice, but it doesn't look or sound as good as real TV. Netflix on demand too. All because of crappy software, DRM laden and slow, with limiting licenses by the content industry (hence why people couldn't watch Groundhog day on... Groundhog Day this year (netflix didn't have enough licenses).
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The industry would drag its heels with or without piracy.
 
HardUp4HardWare said:
You are not even trying to get my point.

I am saying it is shitty. "They" in this argument are the pirates.
My main point is that they should realize it is shit and go read a book.

I think you are too wound up from arguing in this thread, you should go take a time out in your "quiet spot".
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You should take your own advice, you sound familiar with nap time. And I knew what you meant, obviously, because I expanded on it.
 
prndll said:
I just want someone to explain to me what the difference is between having a VHS recording and a harddrive recording when it's all done using hardware that I legitimately bought and paid for and tv services that is legitimately bought and paid for. Is it that using torrents or P2P means that digital recording isn't done with hardware I bought (because I do legitimately pay for internet access)? Is it that using torrents or P2P means also uploading to other people simultaneously (because it's not the downloaders fault that these things are designed that way)? What is the difference?

I've asked this many times before and I never get any kind of real answer. The best I can get is "one is legal and one isn't". That's not going to satisfy anyone when downloading is so easy to do and the AA's make everyone's life such hell.
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No, it's the fact that you paid for the source signal.
So, you can hook an HTPC to a cable box and use it as a DVR. I do. It works just fine and is perfectly legal. Period.
Same with a VHS or DVD recorder (do they still make either?!)

The difference is, when you go online and make it available to other people that did NOT pay for the source signal. For example, torrenting allows you to download a file, but you are uploading at the same time. Remember, no one is actually held by the RIAA for JUST downloading. It's ONLY people that upload too.
 
Goride said:
Recording via VHS (or music on a cassette) was never considered a big issue because one cannot record the media at 100% quality.
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No that wasn't a big issue at all at the time. That's why Sony never tried to hold Betamax or VHS manufacturers liable for copyright infringement, to the point of taking it to the US Supreme Court. :rolleyes:
 
Modred189 said:
No, it's the fact that you paid for the source signal.
So, you can hook an HTPC to a cable box and use it as a DVR. I do. It works just fine and is perfectly legal. Period.
Same with a VHS or DVD recorder (do they still make either?!)

The difference is, when you go online and make it available to other people that did NOT pay for the source signal. For example, torrenting allows you to download a file, but you are uploading at the same time. Remember, no one is actually held by the RIAA for JUST downloading. It's ONLY people that upload too.
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Oops but its not legal if you invite your friends over! Good thing TV parties never happen.
 
OldPueblo said:
Oops but its not legal if you invite your friends over! Good thing TV parties never happen.
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Yes it is. The implied and explicit licenses you get from the provider allows you to show it in your home to friends and family.
i.e., not your entire block. And if you wanted to do that, the licenses are exceedingly inexpensive, same with music.
 
For reference, here is ATT Uvers's term:
AT&T U-verse Services are provided for your non-commercial personal use only, and for your enjoyment in a single private residential dwelling unit. You agree not to reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, transfer, trade, resell or exploit for any commercial purposes any portion of the Services, use of the Services, or access to the Services. Further, you agree that the AT&T U-verse TV service will not be viewed in areas open to the public or in commercial establishments and that your AT&T U-verse TV service may not be rebroadcast, nor performed, nor may admission be charged for listening to or viewing AT&T U-verse TV service.
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Modred189 said:
No, it's the fact that you paid for the source signal.
So, you can hook an HTPC to a cable box and use it as a DVR. I do. It works just fine and is perfectly legal. Period.
Same with a VHS or DVD recorder (do they still make either?!)

The difference is, when you go online and make it available to other people that did NOT pay for the source signal. For example, torrenting allows you to download a file, but you are uploading at the same time. Remember, no one is actually held by the RIAA for JUST downloading. It's ONLY people that upload too.
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This was the second question:
Then why all the DRM tactics that install things to my drive? Why start law suits based on the fact that a little girl "downloaded" something? Why does it matter how many songs are on someones harddrive? If it's about "uploading" then why are so many people doing nothing but referencing "downloading" (even in the court rooms)? If it's just about "uploading" then why even look at downloaders at all? Why not deal strictly with the people that wrote the torrent/P2P software/protocol?
 
prndll said:
This was the second question:
Then why all the DRM tactics that install things to my drive? Why start law suits based on the fact that a little girl "downloaded" something? Why does it matter how many songs are on someones harddrive? If it's about "uploading" then why are so many people doing nothing but referencing "downloading" (even in the court rooms)? If it's just about "uploading" then why even look at downloaders at all? Why not deal strictly with the people that wrote the torrent/P2P software/protocol?
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There are two questions there:
1-Why worry about downloading?
2- Why not go after the uploaders?

2's easiest so will go first: (C) (and patent) law recognizes that devices that have significant noninfringing uses are not illegal. Simple as that. That's why the corporate entities of Napster and Morpheus and TPB went down, but not BitTorrent.

1- Because lawyers and judges are tech-idiots. They don't know the nomenclature, pure and simple. You'll never find a case that was about someone JUST downloading. It's always "downloading and making available copies of 'Anal Butt-Pirates 7." (A classic btw). Also, because the people that get caught are the ones that left those downloaded files in their Kazaa library, seeding for months, 24/7.
Also, because when you are the RIAA/MPAA, it's easier to vilify people that "steal things from starving musicians" as opposed to people that"give away music for free." So, marketing.
 
Modred189 said:
There are two questions there:
1-Why worry about downloading?
2- Why not go after the uploaders?

2's easiest so will go first: (C) (and patent) law recognizes that devices that have significant noninfringing uses are not illegal. Simple as that. That's why the corporate entities of Napster and Morpheus and TPB went down, but not BitTorrent.

1- Because lawyers and judges are tech-idiots. They don't know the nomenclature, pure and simple. You'll never find a case that was about someone JUST downloading. It's always "downloading and making available copies of 'Anal Butt-Pirates 7." (A classic btw). Also, because the people that get caught are the ones that left those downloaded files in their Kazaa library, seeding for months, 24/7.
Also, because when you are the RIAA/MPAA, it's easier to vilify people that "steal things from starving musicians" as opposed to people that"give away music for free." So, marketing.
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2 - Does the law truly recognize this? Because if it were really that simple...then why have we been dealing with this so long with so much crap? If it's really that simple then why carry this thread this far?

1 - I would agree with this but this is hear-say opinion and can't be legitimately used in a court of law but I'll admit I haven't seen the numbers as far as upload vs. download of the people that have been "caught".
 
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