Silverstone SX500-LG 500W Gold SFX-L

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by Aibohphobia, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. Tony Ou

    Tony Ou SilverStone Tech Representative

    Messages:
    520
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    If you have very good airflow blowing into the PSU, there is a good chance its own fan doesn't need to turn on as SX500-LG is 100% temperature based. Did you try stopping the 120mm case fan to see if the PSU fan would turn on then?


    These are the noises produced when the voltage is raised by fan controller near PSU fan's starting threshold. As discussed previously, this is unavoidable with a temperature based fan controller as used in the SX500-LG. However, every PSU may exhibit this noise slightly differently depending on the environment it is used in and also due to product variances.


    Thanks for sharing your experience and being patient with us throughout the process. We will continue to improve and speed up the communications. In your circumstance, the misunderstanding from our distributor was due to their personnel change.

    Obviously I can't reveal exact sales and return numbers, but the RMA percentage aren't anywhere near that high. We are normally very concerned when anything approaches 1% and the SX500-LG was never there. This thread on Hardforum, however has now become the place to go for customers worldwide to share their SX500-LG troubles so it does contain what appears to be higher percentage of complaints.

    With that said, we are still monitoring the situation and trying to build a case to possibly release an alternate version of SX500-LG without semi-fanless function. I got our PSU product manager to side with me last year and brought up the idea of removing semi-fanless function with executives but was unsuccessful because we simply had so few returns/complaints to make the case. Semi-fanless in many regions is considered a positive asset so we will probably go at it again this year but instead of trying to change SX500-LG, we'll push to release another version. So for current SX500-LG owners here, what would you like to see changed or updated besides semi-fanless?
     
  2. Aibohphobia

    Aibohphobia [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,340
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Does the SX700-LPT's fan controller avoid this issue? If so, I think it'd make more sense for those who are that sensitive to noise to get the 700W if it's not too much more expensive.

    For a new unit, I really like the recessed modular connectors on the upcoming Corsair SF600. Except I think it'd make much more sense on a SFX-L unit since it'd compensate for the extra housing depth when using one in a case meant for SFX.

    And I realize the 700W isn't even out yet, but I'd like to voice my support for even higher wattage SFX-L units. It's my sincere hope that SFX-L gets to the point where it completely replaces ATX, at least for Mini-ITX and microATX cases.
     
  3. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,207
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    I was thinking about recessed connectors as well. I understand why it was done on the SFX models, but even there you can win enough space inside to put them further back.
     
  4. incredadamible

    incredadamible [H]Lite

    Messages:
    117
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Hi Tony, I appreciate the reply. I did multiple trials with case fans on/off and there was no movement on the fan...I did not run them very long as the PSU was getting very warm. I don't have anything to take temperature measurements, but I would guess the PSU housing temp was 50+ degC. Any warmer and I would not be able to hold my hand on it for extended periods. RMA process is pretty easy, though I do have to wait on shipping times.

    Also, I was not happy with the temperature profile in the case with my GTX 970 (Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming)...especially with the amount of heat dumped between the PSU and the case. I managed to find an Asus GTX 970 Mini card that I'm going to try. If it works well, my Gigabyte card is up for sale :)
     
  5. Tony Ou

    Tony Ou SilverStone Tech Representative

    Messages:
    520
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Yes, the load based controller can go straight to PSU fan's rated starting voltage so there is no hesitation in starting the fan, hence no noise. The SX700-LPT will cost quite a bit more than SX500-LG though.

    There is no more room for SX500-LG's connector to recess anymore so that's something we may have to try on future models.

    If you look at power density, the SX700-LPT is actually less dense than SX600-G. So logic tells you that if we could make SX600-G two years ago, we can certainly make a more powerful SFX-L PSU now. Below are power density comparison of a few of our PSUs (all with modular cables) as a refresher:

    756W per liter - SX600-G (600W SFX)
    678W per liter - SX700-LPT (700W SFX-L)
    646W per liter - ST1500-GS (1500W ATX 180mm)
    567W per liter - ST45SF-G (450W SFX)
    484W per liter - SX500-LG (500W SFX-L)
    431W per liter - ST1000-P (1000W ATX 160mm)
    415W per liter - ST75F-PT (750W ATX 140mm)
     
  6. Aibohphobia

    Aibohphobia [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,340
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Well, silence freaks are used to paying a premium to achieve that ultimate low-noise computer so I guess we'll have to wait and see exactly how much more it is.


    Hmm...the new SX650-G is 818W per liter, SFX-L is 1.03L...so when can we expect that 850W SFX-L unit? :D
     
  7. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,207
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Very possible the 700LPT is somewhat downrated in order to achieve platinum efficiency rating.

    Since efficiency for some reason is tested at percentage of rated max power, and 50% @ 110V needs to be the highest efficiency, manufacturers can arbitrarily shift the curve left or right to land with 50% at the top of the curve. If its best efficiency is at 350W, they just call it a 700W model, even if it can do more. This could be seen clearly with the ST45SF-G, I've mentioned it in the past. In tests by ChipHell they determined that the PSU could easily reach 550W before overheating, but had it been a 500W model it would only have been bronze rated, according to the efficiency curve. (See fifth graphic at https://www.chiphell.com/article-4711-5.html)
     
  8. Anshur

    Anshur n00b

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    And any approximation on when we could expect the 700LPT to come out in europe ?
     
  9. Tony Ou

    Tony Ou SilverStone Tech Representative

    Messages:
    520
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Both of you are on the right track. Please keep in mind that SX650-G prototype at 818W per liter is a gold rated unit, so theoretically an SFX-L with the same density could be up to 850W, but for only gold rating. Would gold rating be good enough for a premium unit like that nowadays?

    Current schedule points to end of March ship date so European availability is probably in April/May time frame. Quite a bit of delay on this so sorry to those of you waiting for it. SFX stuff is harder to design and manufacturer than people realize, just ask our competitors!
     
  10. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,630
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    I don't it's a matter of what is good now, but an 850W Gold-rated PSU will most likely release more heat when it's stressed over 80% usage, so this will most likely mean the fan and fan curve needs to be adapted appropriately. Unless this could result in the same noise up to 700W, the point of it being Gold or Platinum rated is just for marketing purposes.

    Now the question is, which would sell better:
    - a 700W 80+Platinum PSU that can do 850W unadvertised but is built for that kind of power draw.
    or
    - a 850W 80+Gold PSU that secretly is a 80+Platinum when used as a 700W PSU.

    Would it theoretically be possible to sell a 700W PSU that has an "overclock-button" (read as: moves Over-Current Protection from 7xxW to 850W) as 700W 80+Platinum, meaning marketing is happy and every buyer is too ?
     
  11. Aibohphobia

    Aibohphobia [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,340
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    For a flagship ATX power supply, I don't think that Gold-rated is good enough, but for a SFX or SFX-L unit the wattage would set it apart as a flagship, not the efficiency level if it is at least Gold.

    So while it'd be nice to have a Platinum or even Titanium-rated unit so it generates that much less waste heat (and thus needs less cooling), I could certainly live with a 850W SFX-L Gold unit.
     
  12. mattpwill

    mattpwill n00b

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    I'd personally prefer platinum efficiency over the extra wattage
     
  13. mazzy80

    mazzy80 n00b

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Hi Tony,
    But How About a stellar platinum performer, silent 350-450W SFX unit with Jap caps and decent fan ?
    A 750-800W SFX/L is for ? a dual GPU setup ?
    But you're looking at a micro-ATX board, a Micro-ATX Case with room, but what difference will make a SFX-L VS compact ATX PSU at the end ? really...
     
  14. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,207
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Ecova marketing is clearly working here and that's why Tony will pick to release a platinum 700W instead of a gold 850W :)

    Matt: it's not two different power supplies that Phuncz is suggesting for the theoretical SFX-L flagship. It's 1 single device, with two different ratings. We're discussing the odd situation that manufacturers can understate max power rating of a PSU in order to get an artificially higher efficiency rating. It's one of the many flaws in the 80Plus system.
     
  15. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,630
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Indeed, although it's hard to imagine an SFF build with two GPUs that will go over 700W load today. Dual GTX 980 cards with a X99 setup has been running on the Silverstone SFX 600W succesfully on Aibohphobia 's rig stable for a year now if I'm correct. Dual Radeon Nano cards would just as well work. So basically the 700W would allow some overclocking or have enough room to charge a laptop over USB-C, if the 20V @ 5A spec gets incorporated into an mITX or mATX board (it isn't yet, right ?).

    EDIT: GTX 980 on 600W, not GTX 980Ti on 650W.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  16. Blk

    Blk Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    153
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    It's a extremely small market for 700w+ sfx... not gonna be worth the cost to develop..
    Mazzys suggestion is a much bigger market, a really quiet 400w-ish sfx would be perfect for a lot of living room gaming/htpc's.. (but it has to be really quiet)
     
  17. mazzy80

    mazzy80 n00b

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Well, When i think a mITX system, I think small and quiet/silent. smaller is better.
    if smaller is not your goal,,, but waste your time with mITX at all ? there' re mATX system quite small...

    If I want 2 Top of the line GPU card, a Overclocked CPU, 600+W PSU, now that can't be small ... no possible, it 's a mATX yard at least, and you need a case with decent airflow -> noise.... you're much better with a ATX PSU maybe in short version., less compromise..
    maybe someone can show me a different view of why we need 700+W SFX-L... and how use that power in a mITX system...

    I see 3 user cases for mITX with SFX PSU..
    a silent living room multimedia PC (200W PSU silent)
    a compact system for people that need small footprint but decent performance (300-350W semi-silent)
    a portable gaming system, with single GPU card, 2 SSD, 65-95W CPU (450W-500 extremely quiet)

    Current offer by silverstone is a about 2 old units 300W and 450W, not quite regarded like stellar performer, that need to be revamped a little bit but still nothing is coming...
     
  18. Blk

    Blk Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    153
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    A PSU for a htpc and for people who build a PC based system instead of a PS4 or Xbox is a huge market, SFX for the small footprint and quietness for movie watching and living room use...
     
  19. Aibohphobia

    Aibohphobia [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,340
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    I have two 980s (not Ti's) on the 600W. I haven't tried dual 980 Ti's, but that'd be pushing it on 600W.

    The market for people who actually need a 850W SFX-L unit today is indeed very small, but I'm thinking more about the typical builder who overestimates how much wattage they need. To make those people comfortable using a SFF power supply over the tried and true ATX format will require high wattages.
     
  20. Blk

    Blk Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    153
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Introducing products nobody need because people don't know better isn't a viable business tactic..
    Also people tend to buy to much because "if they in the future want CF/SLI"
    As Mazzy said, there's no reason to buy sfx unless you have a mitx. (and mitx = no cf/sli) For that usage 700w is plenty..
    It's only very few extreme users like you, who will buy 700+, but not nearly enough to warrant it..

    The trend from both cpu and gpu manufactures are less power hungry products, what you suggest is a dead market.. and will never be alive..
    The xbox & Playstation PC-replacement market is going to get bigger and bigger..
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  21. Aibohphobia

    Aibohphobia [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,340
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    With the cases available today that is very true, but I think it's likely SilverStone will do a mATX case that only uses SFF power supplies at some point so it makes sense to have a 800W-850W SFX-L unit as a companion product.
     
  22. Blk

    Blk Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    153
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    I guess that's where we disagree..
    I don't see the point in using a sfx only matx case (it's such a oxymoron), also that psu would be for sli/cf users only.. because there are other better/cheaper options if you're not doing that...

    Which means 1. you need to get people to buy a specific case (which i believe won't sell) and 2.then be cf/sli users...(how many matx run cf/sli today?) that's a very slim market at best...

    Meanwhile, you have millions of xbox/PS user potentially moving to PC... i know what i've used my time developing..
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  23. Aibohphobia

    Aibohphobia [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,340
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Fair enough.
     
  24. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,630
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Ah yes, that's true, I edited my post.

    While the 700W SFX-L will suit most needs, I agree with Aiboh that there will be enough people that still believe a PSU needs to be massively overdimensioned or don't have a clue how much they need. Necere had this battle with the Ncase when the largest SFX PSU was 450W and people were outraged they had to buy a 130$ 450W PSU when they were used to buying 700W for that money, let alone feel comfortable running it. The number of posts I made convincing people who thought their Core i3 or i5 with GTX 770 would be too much for 450W...
     
  25. Epos7

    Epos7 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    266
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    I contacted Sharkoon about their SilentStorm PSU, but it's not for sale in the US.

    If anyone else knows of a quiet SFX-L PSU available in the US, please share.

    Silverstone offered to RMA my PSU again, but I don't think I'm going to be without my computer for another 1-2 week to *maybe* get a PSU without the noise. Really kills my quiet PC vibe though.
     
  26. Synomenon

    Synomenon [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,649
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2007
    Try the new Corsair 600W SFX. My Corsair does not have ANY of the annoying noises that my SilverStone SX600-G makes.
     
    Epos7 likes this.
  27. Epos7

    Epos7 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    266
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Thanks, just noticed the Corsair unit was out. Looking into it now.
     
  28. JavierCalzado

    JavierCalzado n00b

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Hi all,

    I am a recent owner of the famous SX500-LG and, although I've run my new PC just a few times, I am concerned about the noises described in this thread. PSU was completely silent the very first 2 days until yesterday night, when I was shocked as I heard what it appeared to be a mechanical HDD seeking data inside my case, except for the detail that my disc is a brand new Samsung 950 Pro. "What the hell is this?" I thought ... Then I realised it was the PSU fan and got to this forum after some googling. I have to admit that the noise is not that worrying in my case, but it is noticeable due to my extremely silent build (all Noctua air cooling ... the only way to know if the PC is on/off is looking at the power button led). So, if there is any update regarding this noise issue, I highly appreciate news or tips.

    I forgot to mention that coil whine is also perceptible. It is weird to hear that crispy electronic noise, for example, while scrolling a webpage or moving a window.

    In the meanwhile, just a suggestion for Silverstone. I'm not an expert in electronics but why not using a PWM control system instead of voltage regulated? This way no voltage change is applied, it remains constant. Fan speed is controlled by pulse modulated signal. Add a good bearing to the fan and you'll probably get rid of any noise. Current motherboards do a really good job with PWM implemented onboard. Actually, I have setup mine in semi-fanless mode with Noctua fans .... no trace of voltage ramp noise, start stop operation, etc.
     
  29. thehack

    thehack Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Money. PWM controllers are more expensive. At $96 the power supply is already expensive as is for the wattage you get. Try out the corsair sf450. It is very well built and should handle your build just fine.
     
  30. JavierCalzado

    JavierCalzado n00b

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Yeah, I guess so ... is all about money. The point is that after further testing, it seems not to be related with fan bearings as stopping the blades manually does not remove the sound, it is still there. It is really weird, the noise sounds in sync with PC load, as if it was a mechanical HDD....
     
  31. superpopsss

    superpopsss n00b

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Hey guys, built a mini itx with a sx500l psu and it's making a noise like if fan is touching something:




    Ignore the hdd noise that starts towards the end of video.


    Is this normal ? Noise is very loud not sure if normal or not...

    It's really annoying and like I read here, pc was under heavy stress tests for 20-25min fan was spinning for a good 10-15 min already.

    Is this an RMA situation ?
     
  32. sdfewfe

    sdfewfe [H]Lite

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    This sound similar to my unit. Mine isn't quite as bad though. I would think it warrants an RMA, although personally I haven't gotten around to it yet since I don't have a spare PSU lying around.
     
  33. superpopsss

    superpopsss n00b

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Well my pc isn't fully built. I'll RMA it, hope it doesn't take them to long to ship it back.
     
  34. JavierCalzado

    JavierCalzado n00b

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Tell us if the replacement unit fixes the noise please .... I am concerned whether it is a bunch of bad quality control units or just a design flaw.
     
  35. superpopsss

    superpopsss n00b

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016

    I will update you once I get a replacement, if I get one.
     
  36. Speed-Driven

    Speed-Driven [H]Lite

    Messages:
    72
    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Will this PSU be enough to power an I5 6600K, GTX 970, SSD, and 3 SATA HDDs, CPU fan, and 1 more chassis fan?? not overclocked.
     
  37. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,630
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    I have had an i5-4670K, Radeon R9 290X (275W consumption), SSD, watercooling pump and two 120mm fans for about a year on a 450W PSU that was modded with a slower fan than comes standard. It worked without a problem, unless I put a very restrictive filter over the PSU and it couldn't cool itself. 500W is plenty for a GPU that doesn't even touch 200W.
     
  38. dboris

    dboris n00b

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Damn.. Still no fix.
    I have the same problem. Present since day one.

    Vocaroo | Voice message
    (at the end of the recording)

    I contacted silverstone... They ignored my email. :D.
     
  39. Tony Ou

    Tony Ou SilverStone Tech Representative

    Messages:
    520
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    dboris likes this.
  40. dboris

    dboris n00b

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016

    Thanks. Mail sent. It's a second hand PSU. I hope it doesn't cause any trouble. I have the bill. I don't want to bother my seller with this problem.