HardOCP News
[H] News
- Joined
- Dec 31, 1969
- Messages
- 0
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Silk Road Drug Kingpin Sentenced to Life in Prison
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
cageymaru
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 22,082
I know people that have actually killed people and got less than 5. This was one of those "scare tactics" sentences.
Would probably get less time for running over the judge with your car. That being said, would any of you actually engage in what he did? I mean just pretend for a second that your life motto was "fuck it" and you had the resources to create a silk road 2, or 3, or wherever they're at now. Would you actually do it? I know I sure as hell wouldnt, and that was before I even heard of the 20 year sentence. Why? I dunno, it's just not in my character, and to imagine myself in such a situation kinda makes me sick to my stomach. The fact that I have this natural reaction to what I perceive as "wrongdoing" makes it hard for me to feel bad for him. I knew it was wrong, he knew it was wrong, the difference is he said "fuck it" and did it anyway, and here are the consequences.
What a joke.
> "Ulbricht's conviction is the first of its kind, and his sentencing is being closely watched," the letter says. "The Court thus has an opportunity to send a clear message to anyone tempted to follow his example that the operation of these illegal enterprises comes with severe consequences."
... wait so what's he being punished for again? Just for what he did? Or to send a clear message?
> "Ulbricht's conviction is the first of its kind, and his sentencing is being closely watched," the letter says. "The Court thus has an opportunity to send a clear message to anyone tempted to follow his example that the operation of these illegal enterprises comes with severe consequences."
... wait so what's he being punished for again? Just for what he did? Or to send a clear message?
Dead Parrot
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2013
- Messages
- 2,831
Just goes to show the Feds don't like it when you try to deprive them of their fair share of your profits. Normal black markets 'lose' a share to the Feds via Civil Forfeiture so everyone can claim victory. This guy was trying to keep it all hidden.
Same here. You could do all sorts of more heinous crimes and get away with that much time. This is nothing new though, drug traffickers have historically been sentenced in this manner.
^this
amddragonpc
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,996
Wow, his lawyer SUCKED.
Picking up your sarcasm...
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
If the point of prosecuting crime is to end crime then we should stop prosecuting all crimes then. That said, being a child of the "War on Drugs" it's obvious that it's a public policy failure to the point that there's a good deal on consensus on this across the political spectrum.
But I get those who don't like addictive drugs. People hooked on certain drugs will burn your house down, piss on your grave and not bat an eye to get their next fix. And yes even legal substances like tobacco and alcohol can be just as devastating.
The price of freedom is personal responsibility. It is a much higher price than many realize.
Retronym
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 13,605
They are obviously scared.
And they should be.
And they should be.
Darunion
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 5,321
His lawyers statement was roughly "but this made drug dealing safer for those involved as opposed to traditional means"
I mean yea, how can anyone argue with that?
westrock2000
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
- Messages
- 9,433
Narcotics trafficking conspiracy and deaths connected to it, and multiple murder for hire attempts are probably behind the long sentence. I'm more surprised by the no possibility of parole added to the sentence.
I guess the real-life Princess Bride defense didn't go too well.
Retronym
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 13,605
Murder for hire charges against the undercover federal agent who blackmailed and threatened to kill him were not a part of this trial. This punishment if for running the website.
Ur_Mom
Fully [H]
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Messages
- 20,688
Many people want all that freedom, but when you see all the asshole abusing that freedom, it starts looking like a bad idea. Many laws aren't created for the majority. They are created because a minority is causing a huge ruckus and can't handle themselves properly. No personal responsibility. Depending on what side you're on, it can be different issues (some want welfare reform or removed due to the minority abusing the system; some want gun control because a minority shoots other people).
Personal responsibility. I'm sure most of us could handle ourselves, even with no laws in place. We just aren't the asshole type. We respect others and their property. Some people just aren't like that, though. If it wasn't against the law, they'd fuck shit up. Some do anyway.
The Silk Road guy... Extreme sentence. It's a punishment to scare others and doesn't fit the crime, IMO.
D.A.R.E. probably started because Nancy Reagan had a guilty conscience about her husbands involvement in CIA/Contra cocaine trafficking operation and for flooding our neighborhoods with crack.
D.A.R.E. is how I learned about weed and cocaine. Had no reason to know what they were at 10 as I didn't really live in an area where kids were being offered drugs constantly. We watched a documentary where users are interviewed while on the drug and they all had such positive things to say. The lessons they tried to teach in my town were more "Don't do drugs or you'll get arrested and that will ruin your life" as opposed to "Don't do drugs because they could have negative affects on your health" so as soon as some of my friends figured out a way to do drugs without getting arrested, they didn't see any reason not to do them.
D.A.R.E. is how I learned about weed and cocaine. Had no reason to know what they were at 10 as I didn't really live in an area where kids were being offered drugs constantly. We watched a documentary where users are interviewed while on the drug and they all had such positive things to say. The lessons they tried to teach in my town were more "Don't do drugs or you'll get arrested and that will ruin your life" as opposed to "Don't do drugs because they could have negative affects on your health" so as soon as some of my friends figured out a way to do drugs without getting arrested, they didn't see any reason not to do them.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
They must have missed some class days or had never seen a true drug addict. The deleterious effects of certain long term drug use on judgment and mental health are obvious to a second grader.
Ur_Mom
Fully [H]
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Messages
- 20,688
Meth users. They think they aren't obvious, but you can tell very easy. They are just some fucked up people. Seeing them made my kids say "Fuck that noise. Never.".
Darunion
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 5,321
I like to think of prison as rehabilitation to eventually reinsert the person into society. A life sentence to me says he could never again be trusted in society. I really think he could once again be a productive member of society just not today.
Amadeus Arkham had the same vision when he built Arkham Asylum. Some people just don't change.
His lawyers statement was roughly "but this made drug dealing safer for those involved as opposed to traditional means"
I mean yea, how can anyone argue with that?
Well, it's the same argument used by needle exchange programs, which are growing in funding and respect with the recent heroin boom.
Of course how long the current boom lasts is anyone's guess. Bacterial opiates could really shake up the whole trade if a lab-bred strain gets out in the wild.
http://www.wired.com/2015/05/genetically-modified-yeast-will-make-possible-home-brew-opiates/
cageymaru
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 22,082
Here is a guy that extorted sex from underage teens on Social Networks. He went so far as to extort them into performing sex acts on camera so he could record it. He gets 15 years for this and distributing child porn with others in his child porn ring.
So running a website that allows others to sell drugs is life, but exploiting children is 15...
So running a website that allows others to sell drugs is life, but exploiting children is 15...
Is that because he's a white guy? It would certainly, generally be considered reasonable to sentence, for example, a Colombian drug kingpin to life in prison.
Me, I think this guy should get life based solely on the murder-for-hire attempt(s). Not every murderer or attempted murderer deserves the same sentence since it's always possible that there were mitigating circumstances, but someone who is not in any way insane who tries to have a person killed in order to protect/improve their criminal enterprise should be on 23-hour lockdown for the rest of their life. That's not the kind of person with whom I want to share the streets.
it was mostly the psychadelic drugs that had a strong allure to many of my friends like shrooms, acid, extacy. DARE would say things like they make you see flashy colors and out of body experiences, all that stuff sounded cool and impressionable to a 10 year old kid and piqued their curiosity.
Crack addicts though were an obvious billboard to stay clear of it, crack is wack was a popular saying then. But that still didnt stop some from doing it, human nature makes us think stuff will never happen to us, they rationalize they were stupid for over indulging and becoming hooked, thinking just doing it on the weekends or in lower doses will spare them from addicting, its usually a slow gradual process before it becomes an everyday habit then many will continue do deny it by pretending they are in control and can stop at any time. Some people just need to hit rock bottom before admitting to themselves they have a problem, unfortunately many die or are permanently disabled before they reach that point.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
How many people are serving life for less? Not that two wrongs make a right but the average person, especially in a place like this, gives a damn about a drug dealer.
Retronym
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 13,605
He in no way threatened the judge.
anyone following the case know if this comment I read on NYtimes is factual?
Did he really write a veiled threat to the judge
His defense was that he didn't do anything, and then that he did nothing wrong even if he did. Risky and it didn't pay off. Gubmint's a hard-hitter, you tussle with it you gotta be ready to feel the pain.
Retronym
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 13,605
it's always the people who claim to have the superior appreciation for the sanctity of human life that dole out the most brutal, dehumanizing punishments. it's frustrating that they have a complete blindness to their own hypocrisy.
I wouldn't do it, but I don't think he did anything that I'd call "Wrong doing." Heads of banks stole billions (trillions?) in the last decade and got no time. Hell they were given free money for their trouble.
This guy provided a service that many people wanted. I suspect nobody wanted BoA or Citi Bank to bugger them.
Most crimes we associate with drug addiction are directly related to the legality (or lack thereof) of those drugs. I've done my share of illegal drugs and it's really not that big a deal. Take it off the black market and most of those drugs are relatively safe.
You know how you hear about Molly/Ecstasy deaths every summer? Almost always occurs because the drug was not MDMA. AFAIK there wasn't a single death from MDMA prior to the feds putting it on Schedule 1 (even though, like Marijuana it doesn't fit the criteria for schedule 1).
He deserved a slap on the wrist, but putting him away for life is a waste of money and probably deprives the feds of taxes this guy would ultimately pay. He clearly was pretty smart.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
That's interesting. In my lifetime right wing politicians have tended to knock the hell out of lefties over the issue to lenient punishment for crimes. Reagan's "War on Drugs" is the seminal example of that. And Michael Dukakis certainly rues the day Willie Horton was born.
I support firing squads, and don't think all human life is equally valuable, as there are some evil people that should just be shot and be done with it. But that doesn't mean that I think this guy should have gotten anything more than a slap on the wrist if anything at all.
Lets not pretend that those that support say the death penalty or something are somehow the same people that champion the war on drugs, as staunch conservatives often call liberals murderers for killing babies because they are inconvenient for some slut making the same argument that left wingers don't care about the sanctity of human life.
A growing segment of conservatives after all are shifting to the Libertarian ideology, the same as this guy identifies himself with, and would at worst just shut his website down and give him a cease and desist which if obeyed would go no further. And speaking of, the federal government really should only step in when drug trafficking is interstate anyway, otherwise its none of their business as this should constitutionally fall under states rights. So while I agree the government should have a say in a website that handles interstate trade, I don't agree with their position or trying to make an extreme example of this otherwise respectable contributing good citizen. Life sentences should be reserved for those that pose a significant danger to those around them like murderers and the like, not webmasters setting up sites for consensual trade.
Which drugs? I'm asking, because there are plenty of well paid professionals who smoke pot, snort coke and or do other drugs without any significant impact.
There are always going to be those who go overboard, but most of us don't become alcoholics and most don't become addicted to coke or any other drug.