SideArmD SA4 case, CNC + AIO + 9.35L

[vipz]

For something on the go it really needs to be smaller. A 100W card w/ a 150W brick that can also power the laptop via TB3/USB-C. The main unit needs to be the size of a Zotac EN1070 or smaller.

 

[wahaha360]

I get the idea and appeal of having a single PC, but I most certainly won't be able to put up with a 15W CPU or maybe even 45W.

What I would rather see is, instead of piping just the GPU out, why not have the laptop act as a dumb terminal + boot drive and run everything on the desktop CPU? Maybe even leverage VM tech to migrate a running instance from the laptop to the desktop so you don't have to reboot.

That would be neat, since laptops have different panels, I wonder if this would involve hardware + software or only software/driver.

You plugged the Core in on the flight?! What card do you have in it?

GTX 1080, no OC.

People were intrigued when I pulled out the Razer Core + laptop, I must have helped Razer sell a few more units.

So I thought, given how much I fly, and how much time I spend around airline lounges, I could prob sell a few SideArmD just playing games...

 

[vipz]

GTX 1080, no OC.

That's way more than I thought an in-seat socket could handle.

 

[wahaha360]

That's way more than I thought an in-seat socket could handle.

Got upgraded to premium seats. 110V and 200W is available for premium seats on international flights.

I didn't play for long though, since people started to look my way when the fans got loud.

 

[vipz]

Man, I wonder how loud the fans had to be to be able to out-noise a friggin' airliner. It had to be fairly cool in the cabin as well. That really doesn't bode well for the prospect of eGPU-powered "mobile" gaming.

 

[wahaha360]

Man, I wonder how loud the fans had to be to be able to out-noise a friggin' airliner. It had to be fairly cool in the cabin as well. That really doesn't bode well for the prospect of eGPU-powered "mobile" gaming.

This may be fan profile issue, but the fans turn on almost immediately when I play any modern games, to make things worse, the Razer Core has 80mm fans. The tone of the fans are also irritating. I have been complaining about the noise since I got it.

eGPU won't be mainstream for a while, it's too expensive right now. However, when GPU TDP gets lower, eGPU gets cheaper, then maybe.

We got the Razer Core because I suspect the case is made in China near where I was living, and I wanted to know how much it would cost for us to do make a PC using the same mfg technique (aluminum extrusion shell, die stamp steel chassis, CNC handle, sandblast+anodizing).


Going back to SideArmD.

Prior to living with the Razer Core, I was optimistic about making the SideArmD as small as possible. At one point, I thought about 1U coolers or WC only to make the case narrow => smaller volume. But after dealing with the Razer Core, I decided to make the SideArmD wider to support 120mm fans.

One can argue that removing the top fans altogether like the A4 is the way to go. However, learning from our LRPC project, we basically ended that project because the secondary components were too hot without active cooling. If I design SideArmD with top fans for exhaust, I can always compare the results to the case without.

So only testing will tell. As I have said before, if this case is too hot or too loud, I will just end the project.

 

[vipz]

eGPU won't be mainstream for a while, it's too expensive right now. However, when GPU TDP gets lower, eGPU gets cheaper, then maybe.

I agree, eGPU needs to be more than an SFF PC with the motherboard replaced by a TB PCIe bridge. They need a mainstream eGPU that is super integrated. You know how some external USB HDDs have USB3 built-in instead of using a SATA-USB bridge? The same thing needs to happen to eGPU. Native TB on the GPU. I would be *delighted* to have access to a GTX 1050 if all I have is an Ultrabook, or even a 28W i5/i7 MacBook Pro 13, if it were the size of, say, 3 portable HDDs.

But after dealing with the Razer Core, I decided to make the SideArmD wider to support 120mm fans.

I definitely agree with the 120mm fan requirement.

Once can argue that removing the top fans altogether like the A4 is the way to go.

I actually wonder if there's any market at all for a cooling pedestal for the A4, or even a tempered glass display case w/ integrated bottom-up cooling + replacement side panels that are basically just the existing panels with a cutout that is as big as it can be.

 

[wahaha360]

I actually wonder if there's any market at all for a cooling pedestal for the A4, or even a tempered glass display case w/ integrated bottom-up cooling + replacement side panels that are basically just the existing panels with a cutout that is as big as it can be.

Necere showed me something inspired by this thread discussion. He has a different layout than the current SideArmD/A4. I'm pretty excited by what I see.

If you guys ask nicely, he may upload some pics.

 

[exhale]

*asks Necere nicely for some pics*

 

[Ricky07]

Pretty please?

 

[Necere]

It's really in an extremely early state - I basically just showed w360 an idea for an alternate layout. I'll post something when it's a little more fleshed out.

 

[wahaha360]

The sandblasted finish I have been waiting for

 

[exhale]

The sandblasted finish I have been waiting for

GIMMIE!

edit: take my money!

 

[ranix]

Please offer ncase pack for this kind of finish.
not the case, just the front top and side.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

The sandblasted finish I have been waiting for

Nice!

Are the pannels any thicker?

 

[wahaha360]

Are the pannels any thicker?

These are 1.5mm thick M1 panels meant for testing color and sandblasting.

The color and sandblasting texture are good.

I still need to test:
- scratch resistance
- 2-3mm panel thickness.

2-3mm panels will take some time because it requires a custom machine to be built.

AFAIK, the rule of thumb for punching holes repeatedly is that the diameter must be two times the thickness of the sheet metal. This is why Lian Li makes 3mm vents on 1.5mm thick aluminum.

Necere and I agreed on ventilation holes no larger than 3mm diameter (doesn't look good at larger diameters). To make 3mm holes on 2-3mm thick aluminum is tricky. Based on prior attempts with Lian Li, the wear & tear on tooling is very high (shorter tooling lifespan = higher cost per unit) and panel deformation was unacceptable.

Our factory plans to make a custom machine to do this, so it will take some time.

 

[Ricky07]

So WC isn't a priority for the case? EK and EVGA are planning on releasing modular WC setups. The thought of having that in such a case, especially with a handle, is very appealing.

 

[wahaha360]

So WC isn't a priority for the case? EK and EVGA are planning on releasing modular WC setups. The thought of having that in such a case, especially with a handle, is very appealing.

Necere has a new design that will have modular WC capability. So the SideArmD will be air cooling at a smaller volume, or WC (with add-on) at a bigger volume.

 

[Ricky07]

Awesome

 

[Deleted member 222586]

These are 1.5mm thick M1 panels meant for testing color and sandblasting.

The color and sandblasting texture are good.

I still need to test:
- scratch resistance
- 2-3mm panel thickness.

2-3mm panels will take some time because it requires a custom machine to be built.

AFAIK, the rule of thumb for punching holes repeatedly is that the diameter must be two times the thickness of the sheet metal. This is why Lian Li makes 3mm vents on 1.5mm thick aluminum.

Necere and I agreed on ventilation holes no larger than 3mm diameter (doesn't look good at larger diameters). To make 3mm holes on 2-3mm thick aluminum is tricky. Based on prior attempts with Lian Li, the wear & tear on tooling is very high (shorter tooling lifespan = higher cost per unit) and panel deformation was unacceptable.

Our factory plans to make a custom machine to do this, so it will take some time.

Had no idea about any of that. Thinking about it now... it makes sense. The thicker the material the more pressure you need to punch it and the more stress the panel itself will face due to the aforementioned pressure.

Necere has a new design that will have modular WC capability. So the SideArmD will be air cooling at a smaller volume, or WC (with add-on) at a bigger volume.

C'mon! Show us something! Don't be such a tease!

 

[Boil]

So WC isn't a priority for the case? EK and EVGA are planning on releasing modular WC setups. The thought of having that in such a case, especially with a handle, is very appealing.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but gonna need more on this…!

Necere has a new design that will have modular WC capability. So the SideArmD will be air cooling at a smaller volume, or WC (with add-on) at a bigger volume.

And I DEFINATELY need more on this newer Necere development…!!

C'mon! Show us something! Don't be such a tease!

YEAH, DISH…!!!

 

[Seppe Stas]

When would this case become available? I'm really interested in going for a SFF case for my next build, yet I've been planning to go for a Phanteks Evolv mATX case because I really prefer sandblasted aluminium over brushed aluminium. I've been holding of 'till ces because I was hoping for a full aluminium ITX Evolv case (or something similar) when the Hardwarecanucks youtube channel promised interesting compact cases at ces 2017 (see video pHIonan9T3s at 4m23s, I can't post links yet because of this forum's anti-spam system. Yes, I created my account just to post in this thread). All we got was fishtanks and unnamed media center concept projects .

If (a prototype of) this case becomes available soon I might just wait a little longer (not too long though, I'm still rocking Lynnfield on the system I plan to replace). Are we talking a couple of months? a year? multiple years?

Why I love this concept / some feedback:

• The sandblasted aluminium looks amazing. A grey finish like Phantek's "Anthracite Grey" or Apple's "Spacegrey" might look even better though ^^.
• The handle might not make sense when transporting the case for a longer distance in e.g a bag, but it looks very handy when moving the case inside your house (e.g from your desk to your TV).
• The handle breaks the lines of the case (like the sticking out parts of the Evolv), giving it a unique look while being functional at the same time :O.
• The A4 style GPU orientation makes a lot of sense for open air GPU coolers. Since I have an EVGA GPU with ACX 2.0+ this is very interesting for me.
• The NCASE really lacks support for exhaust fans. The fans in the top could make a big difference. Why not make the case a little longer to support at least 1 (back) 120mm exhaust fan? And why not rotate the PSU 90 degrees across the Z axis so the fan of the PSU faces the inside of the case, making the PSU fan acts as an exhaust fan...
• Maybe even put the PSU in the back top portion, fan facing down (the traditional location of ATX PSU's)? This would also make the PSU fan act as an exhaust fan and you could ditch the AC power cable running through the case. It would also justify the depth of the handle cutout.

Anyhow, is there any way to get notified when you guys start an Indiegogo / Kickstarter campaign for this case?

 

[wahaha360]

When would this case become available?

If (a prototype of) this case becomes available soon I might just wait a little longer (not too long though, I'm still rocking Lynnfield on the system I plan to replace). Are we talking a couple of months? a year? multiple years?

If all goes well, second half of this year. We are changing the design because I want dust filters.

Occasionally, I have to care for 2 cats that loves to rub against my M1 (and everything else on the desk). I don't live in a dusty area, but there is plenty of pet hair. Without dust filters, the components inside are disgusting after a while.

I love SFF, but a case without dust filters doesn't play well with my OCD. That's 90% of the reason why I have conceded to Necere's design changes.

SFF + Dust Filter + Good Airflow is a challenge for all of the indie projects on the forum. It's not impossible, but it tends to make cases bigger .

• The sandblasted aluminium looks amazing. A grey finish like Phantek's "Anthracite Grey" or Apple's "Spacegrey" might look even better though ^^.

I want a "Space Gray" case too. If there are enough people, maybe we can offer a limited edition. It is so early right now, so no promises. The product has to be ironed out first.

• The handle might not make sense when transporting the case for a longer distance in e.g a bag, but it looks very handy when moving the case inside your house (e.g from your desk to your TV).
• The handle breaks the lines of the case (like the sticking out parts of the Evolv), giving it a unique look while being functional at the same time :O.

I already made a bag that fits this case, M1, A4, Razer Core and some other projects coming up. By the time this case is available, that bag should be as well.

For the revised design (not yet revealed), the handle on the case should be removable.

• The A4 style GPU orientation makes a lot of sense for open air GPU coolers. Since I have an EVGA GPU with ACX 2.0+ this is very interesting for me.
• The NCASE really lacks support for exhaust fans. The fans in the top could make a big difference. Why not make the case a little longer to support at least 1 (back) 120mm exhaust fan? And why not rotate the PSU 90 degrees across the Z axis so the fan of the PSU faces the inside of the case, making the PSU fan acts as an exhaust fan...
• Maybe even put the PSU in the back top portion, fan facing down (the traditional location of ATX PSU's)? This would also make the PSU fan act as an exhaust fan and you could ditch the AC power cable running through the case. It would also justify the depth of the handle cutout.

Back-to-back cases like this project, A4, Hutzy XS, MI-6, are able to achieve a smaller volume because the layout creates a narrow case (width <135mm).

There is not enough space to put a 80mm+ fan at the back for exhaust without increasing the width of the case. Width affects the total volume of the case significantly. If one were to increase volume by that much, the traditional layout (GPU is perpendicular to the mobo) is more space efficient, and it doesn't need a riser.





Now that I have lived with this back-to-back case layout, for me, a case with dust filter is more important.

As for volume efficiency, even without dust filters, the smallest dimensions possible is about 15mm taller than the A4/Razer Core. If you look at the photo, prototype 1 (in the middle) doesn't feel small enough compared to the M1 (in silver) to justify the lack of dust filters. Even the Razer Core on the right side (very close to the A4 and the limit on how small you can go), doesn't feel much smaller.

I have traveled with the M1 and the Razer Core, and my conclusion is that I want dust filters.

 

[senz]

Following this thread with excitement! I was looking for the A4 but then I thought it was to small maybe a bit to noisy with that small fan.
This is something I will definately buy when/if it's available. Just hooked up FractalDesign nano S until this baby hits the market

Keep up the good work and keep us updated !

Go go go!

 

[psurge]

For me, the top fans are plenty already, so this is just curiosity on my part: I don't understand why there wouldn't be space for a rear 80mm+ exhaust fan. In your most recent "I-beam" GIFs, couldn't such a fan span both the graphics card and motherboard partitions of the I?

Anyway, to add my 2 cents: I do feel like your prototype looks significantly smaller than the M1. In a case intended for portability with components as easily accessible as in your prototype, I'd personally take lower volume + periodic cleaning over the standard GPU-perpendicular-to-the-mobo setup and dust filters (your prototype is pretty much what I want in a case in terms of size, features and aesthetics). I feel like if you lose the back-to-back setup of the prototype, there is some danger of not being much different from an M1. If that were the case, I would not be able to justify buying one since I've got an M1 already .

 

[Necere]

• The NCASE really lacks support for exhaust fans. The fans in the top could make a big difference. Why not make the case a little longer to support at least 1 (back) 120mm exhaust fan? And why not rotate the PSU 90 degrees across the Z axis so the fan of the PSU faces the inside of the case, making the PSU fan acts as an exhaust fan...

For me, the top fans are plenty already, so this is just curiosity on my part: I don't understand why there wouldn't be space for a rear 80mm+ exhaust fan. In your most recent "I-beam" GIFs, couldn't such a fan span both the graphics card and motherboard partitions of the I?

There isn't room for a rear fan, period. Here's a pic of the back of the case (w360's original version) with an 80mm fan next to it:

The GPU and motherboard I/O take up most of the back - there isn't room for an 80mm fan, nevermind a 120mm.


Anyway, sorry I haven't posted anything yet on my redesign. I've just been occupied with other things. I will try to get something up soon, though.

 

[psurge]

I think I didn't fully realize just how small (in the height dimension) this prototype is - thanks for the pic!

 

[Necere]

So here's what I'm thinking for a revised Sidearm design with a bit more flexibility (though a bit larger):



Case would support two 120mm intake fans at the bottom.

GPU is still behind the motherboard, but facing the backside of the board, rather than the side of the case. The purpose of this is so instead of drawing air through the side panels, the components intake from inside the case. Fresh air is provided by the two bottom-mounted 120mm intake fans. The GPU orientation also has the advantage of requiring a shorter PCIe riser compared to the back-to-back design. Downside is the face of the GPU is mostly obscured, for those who care about that.

I'm using a flexATX power supply in this version because it opens up quite a bit of space at the front, which could be used for 3.5" drives or pump/res/tubing in a watercooled setup. I'm not set on flexATX though, and its viability really depends on how some of the new units coming out perform in terms of the noise profile.

A top-mounted carrying handle is a potential option.

One of the major features of this design is the bottom section, which can be swapped out for an extended version that would allow for a bottom-mounted 240 rad:



Preliminary specs:

• Dimensions:
  • Air-only version: 250 x 135 x 340mm, 11.5L
  • Extended W/C version: 280 x 135 x 340mm, 12.9L
• CPU cooler: 40-45mm max height, plus clearance for air intake (~55mm max)
• GPU: dual slot, ~320mm max length, ~150mm max height
• Drives: 2x 3.5" or 2.5"
• PSU: FlexATX
• Fans: 2x 120mm intake
• Rad support: 240mm (w/extended lower section)
• Dust filters: standard on intakes
• Windowed side panel option

Overall, it's similar in size to the M1 - narrower, slightly deeper, but the same height (30mm taller for the W/C version). There are some trade offs though, mainly the quite limited CPU cooler height and PSU support. That's balanced by better GPU support, and more potential for show-off watercooling builds with the window.

Comments welcome.

 

[Mackan]

Posted this feedback on SFF forum:

• Don't know much about FlexATX PSU:s, but from what I have heard, they can be noisy. If they are noiser than SFX, I strongly suggest to also include support for SFX.
• Great to see supported case airflow by the bottom fans. Perhaps they can help cool the FlexATX PSU as well.
• Great to see water cooling support. However, I believe push fans on the radiator are more quiet and slightly more effective than pull. Perhaps a top compartment for the radiator could be included as well.
• Perpaps add support of bottom and top case air fans. A variant where both bottom and top compartment exists.
• In a way, it would be nice to avoid a PSU power cable being routed inside the case. I understand this allows for more flexible design, but they generally are too long and stick out like a sore thumb after you have tried to perfect everything in side the case. Same thing with these stiff overly long internal USB cables.
• Interesting orientation of the GPU. Might be good. From what we have seen, having fans close to an perforated obsticle, can cause unwanted turbulence noise. This would be the case in A4, where the GPU and CPU fans are very close to the side panels. Perhaps this can be avoided in this case, for this case (eh..).
• For people who want to see the GPU "from the right side", perhaps the case can be made flexible enough to support two variants on the motherboard plate. Probably a headache though.
• Dust filters is a nice plus.
• Side window panel is a nice plus.
• Thicker panels (2mm or so) is a nice plus, to avoid bending issues.

Overall, I really like where this is going. I've always wanted to see a slightly more flexible case, where the overwhelming priority is not the smallest volume.

 

[NFSxperts]

• The handle is a must for me, otherwise there's no reason for me to get this case. Will the vented top panel be able to support the weight?
• I would prefer SFX over FlexATX. A decent flexATX would be hard for me to get.
• Nice idea with the bottom intake. How much gap between gpu and back of motherboard?
• Another advantage with the bottom intakes, the side window wouldn't need to be vented.
• No need for 3.5" hdd support.
• At 11.5L, its bigger than my SG05 which is what I'm using for my portable LAN rig. (Of course the sidearmd will be replacing it)(Link if you haven't seen). With the wc attachment, its even bigger than the M1.
• What's the estimated weight of the case?
  
• Will this new design be able to meet the original proposed price of $120 - 160?

This is only my opinion. For me watercooling wouldn't make sense in a case if its purpose is to be carried around as frequent jolts and bumps could cause leaks. The swapable bottom section is a good idea, which was what the EVGA Hadron Air/Hydro should have been.

 

[Tyki]

If this case is designed to be travel friendly, I thin that water cooling support should be minimal without attachments. Space matters too much that all I really see it needing is a 120mm rad space for an AIO. I agree that 3.5" drive support is silly. We're starting to overlap too much with the M1.

 

[Necere]

Posted this feedback on SFF forum:

And responded there.

The handle is a must for me, otherwise there's no reason for me to get this case. Will the vented top panel be able to support the weight?

The top panel is actually not load bearing. Rather, the handle would bolt into a structural beam extending the length of the case:

I would prefer SFX over FlexATX. A decent flexATX would be hard for me to get.

If we go with flexATX, we would likely provide it with the case and/or sell them separately.

As for SFX support, it's something I'm still considering. Oriented lengthwise in the case, it would preclude 3.5" HDD support and make running the tubing for watercooling trickier. I thought about supporting a cross-wise orientation as well, but that obstructs longer GPUs and would require lengthening the case by 10mm just to support 10.5" long cards:

Nice idea with the bottom intake. How much gap between gpu and back of motherboard?

About 20mm.

No need for 3.5" hdd support.

I agree, but that's space that's there anyway, and it would be occupied in a watercooled setup. An SFX PSU would also take up that space.

At 11.5L, its bigger than my SG05 which is what I'm using for my portable LAN rig. (Of course the sidearmd will be replacing it)(Link if you haven't seen). With the wc attachment, its even bigger than the M1.

Neither the SG05 nor the M1 has a suitable layout for a window though. The Sidearm also supports larger GPUs than either, and has better watercooling support than either with the extended bottom (though dual AIOs likely wouldn't be possible).

What's the estimated weight of the case?

Probably around the same as the M1 or a little more, assuming full aluminum construction. The bulk of the weight would come from the components installed rather than the case.

Will this new design be able to meet the original proposed price of $120 - 160?

Can't say at this point. That target was fairly speculative on w360's part anyway.

Needless to say, if we were to include a flexATX PSU, that would not be a realistic target price.

If this case is designed to be travel friendly, I thin that water cooling support should be minimal without attachments. Space matters too much that all I really see it needing is a 120mm rad space for an AIO. I agree that 3.5" drive support is silly. We're starting to overlap too much with the M1.

The non-extended version has no watercooling support. See my reply to NFSxperts above regarding 3.5" HDD support.

 

[Necere]

So in previous iterations of this design I've put the GPU in front (that is, on the left side of the case) of the motherboard, but I want to explain a bit why I settled on having it behind instead.

First off, I have to stress the importance of intake clearance for fans. Too little will reduce airflow considerably, and both cooling performance and noise will be adversely affected. Cases like the Phanteks Evolv ITX don't leave enough room between the GPU intake and the PSU shroud, and temperatures suffer for it.

What's an appropriate amount of clearance, then? Well, admittedly I haven't experimentally tested this, but what I've settled on as a "probably good enough" rule of thumb is one quarter of the fan diameter of clearance. This is based on calculating the area the air must flow through - namely the disc of the fan, and the area of an imaginary cylinder forming the boundary of the intake area - and making them about equal. See this image for an explanation:



For example:

• 140mm fans need 35mm clearance
• 120mm fans need 30mm clearance
• 92mm fans need 23mm clearance

Note I use 0.25 of the fan diameter only as a general target to aim for, not as an absolute rule. More is probably better, but a bit less will suffice as well.


So for this style of layout, where the GPU and motherboard are sandwiched together, putting the GPU behind the motherboard actually makes better use of space than the reverse. That's partly because we have a large area where the GPU extends past the motherboard, but also because we can use the space that's required, but otherwise unused, for the motherboards standoffs/backside clearance:



As is plainly apparent, the layout on the right provides considerably more intake clearance for the GPU fans. Now, depending on what drives are mounted or whether we end up putting in an SFX PSU, that area towards the front may be considerably reduced, but it's still going to be better than with the GPU facing the side of the case.

A secondary reason why I believe the GPU-behind-the-motherboard layout is superior is because it better isolates the GPU from the front side of the motherboard, where the GPU exhaust could enter the CPU cooler:



There are some other benefits as well having to do with fitment rather than airflow. Tubing to the bottom rad, for example, is likely to be easier to run with the GPU pushed all the way to the right side of the case. Also, in the case where a full custom loop is installed and a full cover, single slot block on the GPU, the space opened up behind the motherboard could be used for SSD mounting.

Structurally, there's some advantage to having the motherboard tray in the center of the case, as it would be attached to the top beam (which must support the full weight of the case with a handle attached).

 

[Seppe Stas]

Mmh, I liked the looks of the cutout style handle better. I understand the new design might offer better airflow, but it doesn't break the "box" look that much.

GPU is still behind the motherboard, but facing the backside of the board, rather than the side of the case. The purpose of this is so instead of drawing air through the side panels, the components intake from inside the case. Fresh air is provided by the two bottom-mounted 120mm intake fans. The GPU orientation also has the advantage of requiring a shorter PCIe riser compared to the back-to-back design. Downside is the face of the GPU is mostly obscured, for those who care about that.

Since I mostly use air cooled GPUs with non-reference coolers I care greatly about this. In fact, giving the GPU direct access to fresh air instead of dealing with tricky airflow mechanics is one of the main reasons SFF appeals to me.

As for the shorter PCIe raiser: wouldn't it be an option to have a crossover PCIe raiser, especialy when you plan to design one yourself? I don't know what the limitations are in terms of parasitics and electrical interference, but length matching the traces shouldn't be to hard in a small PCB... I you want I can look into this .

Also, would it be an option to ditch the HDD cages in favor of an SFX power supply? I want to have a zero RPM capable PSU, and I don't care about hardrives.

 

[Necere]

Mmh, I liked the looks of the cutout style handle better. I understand the new design might offer better airflow, but it doesn't break the "box" look that much.

Yeah, the big handle cutout doesn't work with the change in layout.

Since I mostly use air cooled GPUs with non-reference coolers I care greatly about this. In fact, giving the GPU direct access to fresh air instead of dealing with tricky airflow mechanics is one of the main reasons SFF appeals to me.

It sounds like you mean to have the GPU draw air directly through a ventilated side panel, like the A4 does? The reason I'm not doing that is because it's impractical to filter the side vents, since dust filters are so restrictive and slim GPU fans aren't good at overcoming restriction. You can have direct access, or dust filters, but not both.

As for the shorter PCIe raiser: wouldn't it be an option to have a crossover PCIe raiser, especialy when you plan to design one yourself?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "crossover" riser here. What advantage would it serve?

Also, would it be an option to ditch the HDD cages in favor of an SFX power supply? I want to have a zero RPM capable PSU, and I don't care about hardrives.

The space is there, as I've shown above, it's just a matter of making the mounting work.

 

[ejohnson]

I like the idea of allowing water cooling support for this case..... but I have one issue with it.

When traveling on a airplane you are limited to 3.4 oz of liquid on carry on bags. If you are traveling with a water cooled computer, you may have to drain the loop prior to travel unless you plan to put the computer in your checked bag.

 

[Pat-Roner]

I like the idea of allowing water cooling support for this case..... but I have one issue with it.

When traveling on a airplane you are limited to 3.4 oz of liquid on carry on bags. If you are traveling with a water cooled computer, you may have to drain the loop prior to travel unless you plan to put the computer in your checked bag.

i gotta agree with this. Also, the amount of people that makes custom loops are pretty few compared to regular air coolers, + there are even fewer in the sff "market". I think air cooling + sfx is the best way. We finally have some decent sfx psu's on the market, and I don't think tfx will get any love any time soon compared to sfx. Corsair sf600/450 should be the main pick for 99% of builders, and from what I've seen after they came out, they are in 99% builds.

 

[Necere]

I like the idea of allowing water cooling support for this case..... but I have one issue with it.

When traveling on a airplane you are limited to 3.4 oz of liquid on carry on bags. If you are traveling with a water cooled computer, you may have to drain the loop prior to travel unless you plan to put the computer in your checked bag.

For as many times as I've seen this brought up, not once have I ever heard of anyone having a problem getting through airport security with their watercooled PC. I think a factory sealed AIO is even less likely to be a problem than a custom loop with a res.

Regardless, that's why the bottom of the case is modular so you can use the smaller one for an air-only build.

 

[Seppe Stas]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "crossover" riser here. What advantage would it serve?

I think it should be possible to make a PCIe riser that allows the motherboard and gpu to be placed back to back, but have the connector of the GPU still be on the bottom, meaning the riser does not have to be so big. This of course also means having the connector of the GPU in the front of the case (something I forgot to mention), which might be a feature allowing you to call the case "VR ready" .

This type of riser would need to "cross" the signals of the PCIe lanes, which is a bit of a challenge since it's pretty important to length match the signal pairs and prevent EMI and things like parasitic capacity.

Do fans on GPU's really have that much more trouble overcoming airflow restrictions from dust filters compared to regular case fans? I would think the way the fans are directly placed on the GPU heatsink would make them fairly pressure optimized.

 

[Tyki]

Placing the mobo and the GPU back to back seems cool, but wouldn't this limit M.2 support on most ITX boards if I'm imagining this correctly? Yea, you could put it on beforehand, but I feel like heat would be a big issue, especially given that most of them aren't great at that anyway.