Should You Hope Your Child Never Has To Drive A Car?

Hurin

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Once the infrastructure is in place and driverless cars are the norm, the next thing of course will be to make actually driving a car against the law.
 

DrezKill

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As long as I am physically able to do so, I will never stop driving cars (especially manual transmission ones). Driving is some of the most fun I've ever had in my life. I don't really give a shit about autonomous vehicles. Whether I'm sitting in traffic, hitting a high-g corner, cruisin' down the highway, driving for fun or just running errands, I will always be in control of my own vehicle and actively engaged in the driving experience. For me it's not just about getting from point A to point B, it's about how I get there, and how much fun I have getting there. And no, you don't have to be a reckless fool driving unsafely on public roads to have fun. You can completely follow all road laws and still enjoy the way you car feels, the way it handles, the way it brakes and corners, the feel of the shifter as you slide it into each gate, enjoy the awesome note coming from the exhaust and the beautiful sound of the engine. Just the act of driving alone is fantastic and fun. I will never cede total vehicle control to any damn computer system. I don't ever plan on having children, but if I do, I will make sure they learn how to properly drive, control, and maintain a vehicle. Above all, I would teach them to truly appreciate cars and the act of driving. I would make sure they aren't reliant on computer-controlled systems, even things like ABS, traction control, and stability control (cuz when such systems fail, you will need to rely on your own skills).

All that said, autonomous vehicles definitely have their place, and would be another handy tool to have around for various reasons, some of which have already been stated by others in this thread. What the USA needs is some of the stricter training and requirements needed in other countries for their citizens to obtain drivers licenses. Indeed, driving over here is treated as a right rather than a privilege, and there are a lot of immature drivers. There's no way we could ever be able to have something like the autobahn, for example. Just imagine the kind of shit US drivers would get into with that.

Despite being a tech and computer geek, I tend to prefer older cars with less computer systems. I'm not a big fan of drive-by-wire systems either. I avoid vehicles with electric steering, electric braking, and electric throttle. I don't have a problem with paddle-shifting (and at least you still change gears manually with them) and I recognize the advantages of computer-controlled clutches and dual-clutch transmissions when it comes to performance (and also preserving transmission components), but if given a choice, I need a clutch pedal for my left foot and an H-gate shifter for my hand, cuz that's just what's more fun.

I can and do drive cars from the 80s, 70s, and 60s, and I have a blast doing so. My main daily driver right now is from the late 90s. I regularly play game consoles from the 90s, 80s, and late 70s, arcade systems from the 80s and 90s, and I still have computers from the mid-90s up and running. FlyHelicopters said "You wouldn't want to go back 30 years to drive cars from 1985." Yes I most certainly would. As for computers from 30 years back, I honestly would love to f*ck with such systems.

In the end, it's about choice. As long as I am not explicitly forced to let cars take control of the driving, as long as autonomous cars don't interfere with my enjoyment of motor vehicles, then I don't really have any problems with them showing up, or becoming more prevalent. There will always be a need for such things.
 

DrezKill

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Once the infrastructure is in place and driverless cars are the norm, the next thing of course will be to make actually driving a car against the law.
HAHA I hope I'm not still around if that type of shit comes to pass.
 

LOCO LAPTOP

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[21CW]killerofall;1041840368 said:
So if a drunk driver runs a red light and kills your entire family, you are ok with that? Because that's what you are saying. The problem with cars is that you can be killed by people who make bad decisions when you are doing everything right. If driverless cars were mandatory, that couldn't happen.
Lets take this a notch higher, What if a driver less car kills your family because it got hacked? Because you know damn well their going to get hacked at some point.
 

aireyc

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Jul 29, 2005
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185
Sigh... I don't know why this is such a debate. If you look at history and just use your brain, the path becomes clear: technology is good when it improves efficiency and does things for us that we don't want to do. Cars that drive you where you want to go are a good thing because a lot of people just don't like driving. That being said, there should be a way to manually operate them because not all driving is long distance or on well-defined roads. You might want to haul something across your private property or go off-roading to a camp site. Just like with computers, sometimes touch screens are good, but other times we still want/need a mouse. You might have something like fully-automated highways that won't let you drive unless in emergency situations, and you'll have cars that can get you from point A to point B on regular roads without having to use your hands, but it would be stupid to eliminate user control entirely.
 

SparkedFire

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Honestly, I don't see this going anywhere fast. There are too many variables that exist when driving to account for ans they again vary greatly depending on the weather, climate and region. In addition, you are going to have a period of time where you have both auto and manual vehicles on the road. This will create vastly different reactions to an event. If someone wants to rob you, all they need to do is stop in front of your automatic vehicle as you're vehicle will be forced to stop based on its programmed rules.
 

/dev/null

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Once the infrastructure is in place and driverless cars are the norm, the next thing of course will be to make actually driving a car against the law.
Will they make other road vehicles illegal as well, such as motorcycles & bicycles?
 

Starcrossed

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Sep 27, 2008
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This is a strange question. I would be more concerned about the present moment of my children rather than drifting into a question so far off. Vehicular innovation of this sort is much further off than many anticipate since it requires public consent.
 

rotarymotor

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I wouldn't mind this at all.

It could tow my project/weekend racecar to Sebring and to the local autocross course without me having to worry about other idiots ruining my car!
 

tlkimball

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Lets take this a notch higher, What if a driver less car kills your family because it got hacked? Because you know damn well their going to get hacked at some point.
An even further step: Are we willing to let the software controlling our cars make life and death decisions for us? Do we want an algorithm determining the best course of action in a potential accident situation? What if it makes a decision that sacrifices us for someone else? Will it drive us off a cliff in order to avoid a pedestrian?

I live in northern Michigan. We don't have a consistent wireless/cellular infrastructure. We don't have good roads. We have ice and snow for too many months. We have a cubic assload of deer. I don't EVER want software to determine how my car should be driven. It doesn't have 30+ years of experience driving nor is it likely the programmers of the software have spent much time dealing with the conditions I have.
 
Joined
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An even further step: Are we willing to let the software controlling our cars make life and death decisions for us? Do we want an algorithm determining the best course of action in a potential accident situation? What if it makes a decision that sacrifices us for someone else? Will it drive us off a cliff in order to avoid a pedestrian?

I live in northern Michigan. We don't have a consistent wireless/cellular infrastructure. We don't have good roads. We have ice and snow for too many months. We have a cubic assload of deer. I don't EVER want software to determine how my car should be driven. It doesn't have 30+ years of experience driving nor is it likely the programmers of the software have spent much time dealing with the conditions I have.
Actually the car will be able to react faster than you to try and save your live, doing a better job then you ever could. I am just so surprised that people here on a technology forum are so scared of technology. Oh and planes are, and have been networked for years and you haven't heard of any of them being hacked and dropping out of the sky so it can't be that hard to make critical systems secure. I am also sure that the cars will be programmed with self preservation to avoid all damage or to minimize damage and going over a cliff is not least damage. All the issues that I have seen people bring up are easily solvable. You know these things will go through millions of miles of testing before they are allowed to be used by the general public. Also the software can be tested on billions of possible situations so it will already know what to do as it will have had likely 100's of years worth of driving experience before you ever set foot in it.
 

tlkimball

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[21CW]killerofall;1041841701 said:
Actually the car will be able to react faster than you to try and save your live, doing a better job then you ever could. I am just so surprised that people here on a technology forum are so scared of technology. Oh and planes are, and have been networked for years and you haven't heard of any of them being hacked and dropping out of the sky so it can't be that hard to make critical systems secure. I am also sure that the cars will be programmed with self preservation to avoid all damage or to minimize damage and going over a cliff is not least damage. All the issues that I have seen people bring up are easily solvable. You know these things will go through millions of miles of testing before they are allowed to be used by the general public. Also the software can be tested on billions of possible situations so it will already know what to do as it will have had likely 100's of years worth of driving experience before you ever set foot in it.
Everything you have said is total conjecture and doesn't actually address my concerns. I'm not afraid of technology at all. I just don't trust the people who program our technology to get things right. How often does your phone or an app crash or need to be rebooted?

These people DO NOT LIVE where I live. They may have never even driven on ice or had to avoid a herd of deer. (Hint: They don't all cross the road together and you may not even see the second or third deer until it runs into you). They may have never been behind a snow plow throwing ice, snow, and sensor bewildering debris into the air.

Are you really comfortable with cars being programmed to avoid damage as opposed to preserving life? How about that '78 Chevy pickup barreling down the middle of the that tree-lined road? What's the software going to do? Kindly ask the software in that pickup to return to its own lane?

Driverless cars are a technology we don't need at a price that will likely drive the cost of cars up by thousands of dollars. If they manage to get the price down, would you trust something that costs about as much as a cell phone with your life?

Actually, I HAVE heard about planes dropping out of the sky. There are some that we still don't know the cause for their catastrophic failures. Also, in flight, I believe that their communications are via radio and satellite rather than cellular and wireless. Where on our cars are we going to have room for all of that communication equipment? Where is the infrastructure for such communication? Who will pay for the new satellites that will be necessary to communication with our cars?

Where I live, even satellite radio drops out when the overhead growth is too thick. I can't begin to enumerate the number of places where calls are dropped due to lack of cell signal.

Don't accuse doubters of driverless cars of fearing technology. Don't always trust technology to work and for it to be fully tested before deployment.
 

linuxdude9

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Lets take this a notch higher, What if a driver less car kills your family because it got hacked? Because you know damn well their going to get hacked at some point.
Your family current car can be "hacked" by cutting the brake lines, or in a number of other ways.
 

linuxdude9

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Everything you have said is total conjecture and doesn't actually address my concerns. I'm not afraid of technology at all. I just don't trust the people who program our technology to get things right. How often does your phone or an app crash or need to be rebooted?

These people DO NOT LIVE where I live. They may have never even driven on ice or had to avoid a herd of deer. (Hint: They don't all cross the road together and you may not even see the second or third deer until it runs into you). They may have never been behind a snow plow throwing ice, snow, and sensor bewildering debris into the air.

Are you really comfortable with cars being programmed to avoid damage as opposed to preserving life? How about that '78 Chevy pickup barreling down the middle of the that tree-lined road? What's the software going to do? Kindly ask the software in that pickup to return to its own lane?

Driverless cars are a technology we don't need at a price that will likely drive the cost of cars up by thousands of dollars. If they manage to get the price down, would you trust something that costs about as much as a cell phone with your life?

Actually, I HAVE heard about planes dropping out of the sky. There are some that we still don't know the cause for their catastrophic failures. Also, in flight, I believe that their communications are via radio and satellite rather than cellular and wireless. Where on our cars are we going to have room for all of that communication equipment? Where is the infrastructure for such communication? Who will pay for the new satellites that will be necessary to communication with our cars?

Where I live, even satellite radio drops out when the overhead growth is too thick. I can't begin to enumerate the number of places where calls are dropped due to lack of cell signal.

Don't accuse doubters of driverless cars of fearing technology. Don't always trust technology to work and for it to be fully tested before deployment.
Fear and anecdotes. If you grew up in the horse and buggy era, you'd be saying similar things about the advent of the motor vehicle age.
 

tlkimball

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Fear and anecdotes. If you grew up in the horse and buggy era, you'd be saying similar things about the advent of the motor vehicle age.
Sorry. Calling total bullshit on that. This is not an an accurate analogy. Where do you live again? Ever been stuck behind a plow or had to avoid deer? Do you have friends that can't even get broadband where they live or a cell signal worth a damn?
 

linuxdude9

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Sorry. Calling total bullshit on that. This is not an an accurate analogy. Where do you live again? Ever been stuck behind a plow or had to avoid deer? Do you have friends that can't even get broadband where they live or a cell signal worth a damn?
I live in the northeast United States. Plenty of deer and snow plows here. No, I do not live or have friends that live where there's no broadband or cell phone coverage -- that would be a terrible life choice.

Do you really believe that the technological hurdles of today will still be of concern in the far-off future where autonomous cars are ready for consumers?
 

veilv0x

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Oct 15, 2009
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Everything you have said is total conjecture and doesn't actually address my concerns. I'm not afraid of technology at all. I just don't trust the people who program our technology to get things right. How often does your phone or an app crash or need to be rebooted?

These people DO NOT LIVE where I live. They may have never even driven on ice or had to avoid a herd of deer. (Hint: They don't all cross the road together and you may not even see the second or third deer until it runs into you). They may have never been behind a snow plow throwing ice, snow, and sensor bewildering debris into the air.

Are you really comfortable with cars being programmed to avoid damage as opposed to preserving life? How about that '78 Chevy pickup barreling down the middle of the that tree-lined road? What's the software going to do? Kindly ask the software in that pickup to return to its own lane?

Driverless cars are a technology we don't need at a price that will likely drive the cost of cars up by thousands of dollars. If they manage to get the price down, would you trust something that costs about as much as a cell phone with your life?

Actually, I HAVE heard about planes dropping out of the sky. There are some that we still don't know the cause for their catastrophic failures. Also, in flight, I believe that their communications are via radio and satellite rather than cellular and wireless. Where on our cars are we going to have room for all of that communication equipment? Where is the infrastructure for such communication? Who will pay for the new satellites that will be necessary to communication with our cars?

Where I live, even satellite radio drops out when the overhead growth is too thick. I can't begin to enumerate the number of places where calls are dropped due to lack of cell signal.

Don't accuse doubters of driverless cars of fearing technology. Don't always trust technology to work and for it to be fully tested before deployment.
Dude no... They are pumping Billions into the research... The cars they are testing already are MUCH more aware and able to deal with crazy situations that ANY of us are...
Chris Urmson: How a driverless car sees the road
http://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmso..._sees_the_road

WATCH THE VIDEO... (Its not a conspiracy lol)
 

Youn

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Jan 22, 2007
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If death tolls are lower slightly due to autonomous cars than it'll be worth it. I doubt manual driving will be outlawed all together, but maybe have special license and tracks, like with horses.
 

tlkimball

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I live in the northeast United States. Plenty of deer and snow plows here. No, I do not live or have friends that live where there's no broadband or cell phone coverage -- that would be a terrible life choice.

Do you really believe that the technological hurdles of today will still be of concern in the far-off future where autonomous cars are ready for consumers?
There are a lot of people that live where there has never been broadband nor cell coverage. Should they all move to the city?

The original post was "Should you hope your child never has to drive a car." Well, I don't think that would qualify as the "far-off future."
 

rantanamo

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Oct 9, 2006
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220
This sounds eerily like the gun debate. I could definitely see Europe and Asia readily adopting them(some who think this is far off really need to do some research) while Americans moan about it being part of their freedom. When we visit those places we(Americans) will marvel at how safe it is to travel in these places and how much better the air is. Will Americans take that notion home with them? No. Some politician will convince us it will cost too much or that it is violating our freedom.
 

rantanamo

Limp Gawd
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Oct 9, 2006
Messages
220
Are some thinking these things run off of GPS and broadband? Again, look up the tech. They are going in the opposite direction. If there will be communication to the cars, it will likely be physical and one way, or observational data. Hackers have rightfully scared designers and engineers from having the cars talk to each other.
 
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