Should I make the switch to Android?

[Impulse]

It's worth noting that Amazon isn't making a big deal about the fact that it runs on Android btw, it's mentioned once or twice on the product page but it's mostly presented as a consumption tool for Amazon specific services... Which is in line with the way I characterized it earlier, now if they start marketing as a bona fide Android tablet, that's gonna be very misleading.

I'm not sure why some of you are getting bent out of shape over those concerns tho, as they've very valid. Android will eventually make it's way into a pretty wide variety of environments or devices (set top boxes, auto head units, etc)... But not all of that is gonna present the classic phone/tablet experience with Google's market & apps.

I had a whole post written on fragmentation in general but the browser on this work computer cashed and ate it so it'll have to wait until I get home. I think both sides of the argument on it often go too far tho, they either blow it out of proportion or try to ignore the issue entirely (and it is real and has multiple faces).

 

[Impulse]

As far as fragmentation goes, it is a problem and to deny it is silly. Do I think it's a problem that's eventually gonna drag the platform down? No, frankly in many cases the user-facing fragmentation issues don't even have anything to do with OS versions. I'm pretty sure there's only a handful of phones still being sold with 2.1, if that, and a good majority of those sold within the year were upgraded to 2.2. Most new phones are on 2.3, a few on 2.2 (2.3 mostly brought performance improvements in several areas and & VOIP + video call APIs).

Take Netflix as an example of fragmentation issues caused almost entirely by 3rd parties... They've been rolling out their app half a dozen phones at a time over the course of months and months, at first they cited security concerns and even went as far as saying it'd only be available on phones w/Qualcomm SoCs that had built-in DRM, but this turned out not to be true for long. Nevermind that very often you could pull the apk and run it on unsupported phones. It took several months for it to arrive on tablets, very little of it had anything to do with w/OS versions.

The Skype scenario is even worse, since several different parties screwed up there. For like the first 6 months it was availabe only to VZW customers (and it consumed mobile minutes, i.e. worthless). Then they made it avaialble to all but you could only place 3G voice calls outsie of the US, stateside it was WiFi only. Notice a trend here? CARRIER MEDDLING (and even hardware manufacturer meddling) That's something that Apple has done a much better job of avoiding from day one, they put themselves in a position to deal with it and resist it.

During all that Skype hadn't even implemented video calls, arguably it's raison d'etre. When they finally did so they excluded any device running on NVidia's Tegra SoC. Apparently NV excluded a video related instruction set (NEON) from their SoC that Skype had used on every other device, for it's part NV will be building it into their next SoC (Kal El). What's funny about this is NV themselves built a prototype Skype client with video that was showcased several moths before Skype ever implemented it themselves. Why this work wasn't shared is beyond me, but it meant that for several months most tablets (which run on Tegra) and a few phones (mostly Moto phones & some LG/Sony) got the shaft.

It wasn't until today that Skype finally released a Tegra compatible app that added video calls. I've had the feature for three months on my phone but my tablet just got it, doesn't make any sense. NV clearly screwed up, but Skype also dropped the ball. There's several other video chat apps that work across most devices (Tango, Quik, hell even Yahoo IM), even before Gingerbread (2.3) was out!

So you see, fragmentation is real, and in many cases (dare I'd say the most promiment ones) it doesn't even have anything to do with Android versions... It's largel born out of exclusivity agreements and bad management decisions. It's not like the iPhone doesn't suffer from any fragementation either. With some major OS upgrades features have been excluded from older models (in some cases w/o valid reasons imo, other than pushing hardware upgrades). Obviously it's a lot more manageable as a whole for Apple though, since at any one time they just have three platforms to support (iPad, current iPhone, and the outgoing model which they've taken to selling as their low end alternative, smart decision).

I think resolution scaling is one of the least troublesome Android issues in this regard btw... Unlike iOS there were tools in place for proper scaling from the start. The transition from 480x320 to 800x480 was relatively smooth, and even at 960x640 the worst I've seen is a slight black border on a few poorly written app UIs (Speedtest app comes to mind).

The Skype/Netflix issues and others of it's ilk aren't always charachterized as fragmentaton issues but they are... Only born from other sources. Now I'm not saying OS version-born fragmentation issues aren't promiment either, because they are, but I think the problem is getting better thru a combination of factors. Manufacturers have become more aware of it and are even (supposedly) comitting to address it w/more timely and long-lived upgrade cycles, Google seems to be slowing down it's upgrade cycle a tad too, and frankly many users just don't care unless a missing update is tied to a major feature.

On iOS users and developers don't really have to worry about it much, outside of the resolution difference between tablet & phone there isn't much of a divide; except possibly in the case of games and that's why Apple moves very carefuly w/hardware upgrades (well that and milking more upgrade cycles but there's nothing wrong w/that). I think WP7 is an ineresting middle-ground case, MS is keeping a tighter rein on customizations and hardware diversity in order to have more free reign over upgrades, I'm not sure it's panned out as smoothly as they'd wish but it's interesting to see how it'll work in the future.

Personally I think carrier validation and meddling has interfered more w/updates on Android than the oft-maligned manufacturer skins & mods have, but no one can really say for sure. Ice Cream Sandwhich is probably gonna be a pretty good test of how severe the issue's gonna be on Android moving forward.

 

[Impulse]

BTW mope Did you read about Amazon's build being forked off 2.1 anywhere else? DailyTech seems to go into more detail than other news sites I've seen, but they aren't exactly the most trustworthy news site in general (imo). I've seen 2.3 on a lot of other sites, tho it wouldn't surprise me if theyre all just parroting one or two sources either. I'm just curious, it points to how far back Amazon started working on that thing. This Is My Next said they "confirmed" 2.3 but that's where Topolsky works (from the Twit you linked) so it seems rather meaningless in context.

Functionally it's still not gonna make a difference if it's gonna be another Nook like device that's not part of the same phone ecosystem tho. For all we know they could have their own app2sd implementation. I stlll question the longevity of the thing if it's biggest upside is simply value, that didn't exactly make the cheap pre-HC tablets fly off the shelves. The Nooks sold in large part for the hackability, otherwise it's just another e-reader. I'm curious, what has sold better, the Nook Color or Amazon's previous Kindle?

 

[Impulse]

Seriously guys, that's pointless and unnecessary... Calling each others iTards or what have you is one thing (altho also silly), but this is not gonna help anyone considering a switch (nor validate any pov).

 

[CHANG3D]

As far as fragmentation goes, it is a problem and to deny it is silly. Do I think it's a problem that's eventually gonna drag the platform down? No, frankly in many cases the user-facing fragmentation issues don't even have anything to do with OS versions. I'm pretty sure there's only a handful of phones still being sold with 2.1, if that, and a good majority of those sold within the year were upgraded to 2.2. Most new phones are on 2.3, a few on 2.2 (2.3 mostly brought performance improvements in several areas and & VOIP + video call APIs).

Take Netflix as an example of fragmentation issues caused almost entirely by 3rd parties... They've been rolling out their app half a dozen phones at a time over the course of months and months, at first they cited security concerns and even went as far as saying it'd only be available on phones w/Qualcomm SoCs that had built-in DRM, but this turned out not to be true for long. Nevermind that very often you could pull the apk and run it on unsupported phones. It took several months for it to arrive on tablets, very little of it had anything to do with w/OS versions.

The Skype scenario is even worse, since several different parties screwed up there. For like the first 6 months it was availabe only to VZW customers (and it consumed mobile minutes, i.e. worthless). Then they made it avaialble to all but you could only place 3G voice calls outsie of the US, stateside it was WiFi only. Notice a trend here? CARRIER MEDDLING (and even hardware manufacturer meddling) That's something that Apple has done a much better job of avoiding from day one, they put themselves in a position to deal with it and resist it.

During all that Skype hadn't even implemented video calls, arguably it's raison d'etre. When they finally did so they excluded any device running on NVidia's Tegra SoC. Apparently NV excluded a video related instruction set (NEON) from their SoC that Skype had used on every other device, for it's part NV will be building it into their next SoC (Kal El). What's funny about this is NV themselves built a prototype Skype client with video that was showcased several moths before Skype ever implemented it themselves. Why this work wasn't shared is beyond me, but it meant that for several months most tablets (which run on Tegra) and a few phones (mostly Moto phones & some LG/Sony) got the shaft.

It wasn't until today that Skype finally released a Tegra compatible app that added video calls. I've had the feature for three months on my phone but my tablet just got it, doesn't make any sense. NV clearly screwed up, but Skype also dropped the ball. There's several other video chat apps that work across most devices (Tango, Quik, hell even Yahoo IM), even before Gingerbread (2.3) was out!

So you see, fragmentation is real, and in many cases (dare I'd say the most promiment ones) it doesn't even have anything to do with Android versions... It's largel born out of exclusivity agreements and bad management decisions. It's not like the iPhone doesn't suffer from any fragementation either. With some major OS upgrades features have been excluded from older models (in some cases w/o valid reasons imo, other than pushing hardware upgrades). Obviously it's a lot more manageable as a whole for Apple though, since at any one time they just have three platforms to support (iPad, current iPhone, and the outgoing model which they've taken to selling as their low end alternative, smart decision).

I think resolution scaling is one of the least troublesome Android issues in this regard btw... Unlike iOS there were tools in place for proper scaling from the start. The transition from 480x320 to 800x480 was relatively smooth, and even at 960x640 the worst I've seen is a slight black border on a few poorly written app UIs (Speedtest app comes to mind).

The Skype/Netflix issues and others of it's ilk aren't always charachterized as fragmentaton issues but they are... Only born from other sources. Now I'm not saying OS version-born fragmentation issues aren't promiment either, because they are, but I think the problem is getting better thru a combination of factors. Manufacturers have become more aware of it and are even (supposedly) comitting to address it w/more timely and long-lived upgrade cycles, Google seems to be slowing down it's upgrade cycle a tad too, and frankly many users just don't care unless a missing update is tied to a major feature.

On iOS users and developers don't really have to worry about it much, outside of the resolution difference between tablet & phone there isn't much of a divide; except possibly in the case of games and that's why Apple moves very carefuly w/hardware upgrades (well that and milking more upgrade cycles but there's nothing wrong w/that). I think WP7 is an ineresting middle-ground case, MS is keeping a tighter rein on customizations and hardware diversity in order to have more free reign over upgrades, I'm not sure it's panned out as smoothly as they'd wish but it's interesting to see how it'll work in the future.

Personally I think carrier validation and meddling has interfered more w/updates on Android than the oft-maligned manufacturer skins & mods have, but no one can really say for sure. Ice Cream Sandwhich is probably gonna be a pretty good test of how severe the issue's gonna be on Android moving forward.

you are missing the part with older hardware not being able to run games... But it's only a problem for companies that wants to make their games run on older hardware. Companies like Rovio.

I figured if someone is going to tell me that making apps for android is incredibly hard compared to iOS, I would say, yes, it's harder, but not by much, and stop whining about it, just do it. I had whining employees that use up too much time to complain and then I have the non-whining code-monkeys who do nothing but code and don't add any value in the planning phase. Be flexible. Fix it or work around it. I do prefer to develop for iOS - but we are also more lenient towards iOS problems because we make more the twice as much off iOS due to more downloads. (however, android users seems to click on ads more... Maybe it's fat fingers?)

 

[mope54]

nvm

 

[Electrofreak]

All I can say is that Impulse's posts are just about 100% dead on (though NEON does incorporate a hardware component in addition to the instruction set).

It's like the dude is reading my mind... I read his posts and have to check the name of the poster because it feels like I might have typed it myself and just forgotten about it.

 

[brucedeluxe169]

The Nooks sold in large part for the hackability, otherwise it's just another e-reader. I'm curious, what has sold better, the Nook Color or Amazon's previous Kindle?

I'm almost certain the Kindle sold more for the simple reason that it was much cheaper (than the nook color), and at present, the Kindle ecosystem has twice the marketshare as the nook ecosystem.

Funny, I'm an Android fan, and eager to have it on a tablet, but in my "household", we only have an original Nook, and the newly released touch capable Nook.... e-ink is just fucking awesome

 

[Ashton]

Tl;Dr

Both are great phones with great stability and great battery life (though Android sometimes requires some tweaking to achieve the latter)

If your a hard-core nerd who likes mucking around in linux files and cobbeling together your own code, then hands-down you want Android

If your a casual user who wants the phone to always work and rarely needs anything but the basics your better off with an iPhone.

Personally, I've used the EVO 4G and iPad2/iPod Touch (had a VERY brief stint with an iPhone 3GS but as it was prepaid ATT and I'm contracted to Sprint, I didnt use it much). I'm one of these people that doesnt like the manufacturer telling me what I can do. Because of this I've grown very tired of iOS's tight-nit integration with iTunes and the App Store. (itunes is a personal gripe because most of my music has improper ID3 tags - if the files have them at all, and because I dont like taking 15 min to sync 1 new MP3 when I could just drag-n-drop it onto my Android with SAMBA shares)

The App store is good, has lots of apps, though they all seem as a whole more costly than Android (ex: Angry Birds is free on android, 1.99 iirc on iOS) and there are a LOT of politics involved in what is allowed in - not just "poorly written programs that crash" but "programs that add features we dont want added" such as the percentage display in the battery meeter or a "floating" menu of apps. If you dont mind Jailbreaking your device and paying more for apps, then this isn't as much of an issue.

On the flip side, yes, I will openly admit that a lot of Android devices are noticably slower than iPhones - Especially stock (I think I kept stock HTC Sence on my EVO for 6 hours before going Cyanogen Mod... best. choice. ever!) I could go into exactly why this happens, but in short it's because there is only 1 iPhone producer so they can easily customize hardware/apps, while Android is all over the place with Specs, buttons, design, screen-size, etc. A lot of this can be fixed, to one extent or another, on a powerful phone, but on some phones, no, it will always have shakey screen changes and take a moment more to "slide".

 

[Dmitri]

As a gmail\google docs user, Android was an easy choice for me.

 

[Ashton]

As a gmail\google docs user, Android was an easy choice for me.

I have both of those on my iDevices. My only complaint is contacts dont sync, even with the Google Voice installed... Though I will agree it's easier on android to set up (works out of the box).

 

[Impulse]

Despising iTunes isn't necessarily a good reason to switch... I mean I hate iTunes too but I've had a 2nd gen iPod touch for years and I never touch iTunes unless it's to update the device or transfer a video. There's several programs out there that sync music just fine with iOS devices and do a much better job of it if you actually like to be in full control of the process and/or have a large library.

Personally I like Media Monkey, the occasional iOS update tends to break compatibility but it's not a big deal... The combination of filters, smart playlists, watched folders, auto conversion and a bunch of other stuff gives you a ton of flexibility that iTunes can't even dream about. I keep a separate collection of CD FLAC rips but I've got MM set to automatically convert them to MP3s when it finds the files and add them to a recent purchases playlist, couldn't be more seamless.

Adding album art from Amazon to my CD rips within MM is also really nice and simple... Highly recommended for anyone sick of iTunes.

 

[mope54]

I have both of those on my iDevices. My only complaint is contacts dont sync, even with the Google Voice installed... Though I will agree it's easier on android to set up (works out of the box).

But what makes it nicer on android is you can set events so when a phone call comes in it automagically uses the phone app of your choice and when a text comes in it can be set to use your gvoice app.

I don't have a texting plan. I use gv for all texts and calls with the phone dialer (Dialer One) set to make outgoing calls and the GVoice app set to handle all texting and voicemails.

When I use my Touch to make calls from the house it's a pain in the butt in comparison. At least iPhone users have access to GV, we used to have to jailbreak to use the app before around this time last year.


I definitely recommend MediaMonkey. I don't even have iTunes installed on my HTPC. It would be nice if they had a remote app to control it, though, like iTunes and Grooveshark do. I rarely use my own music anyway, though. I use GrooveShark 100% of the time.

 

[Impulse]

I wish GV worked at all in Puerto Rico, I thought we'd finally get it during the Sprint integration but no dice... Even if you've in the US but still have a 787 number it's still a no go. (the integration part, obviously at that point you can get a local GV # and use the VM features w/either) Google Nav didn't work down here either, which I really don't get... I understand there's probably back end reasons for GV but Nav? Their mapping data of the island seems rather complete, it works all over most of EU, did PR just fall thru the cracks?

Oh yeah, that's one of the worse things about Google/Android. Good luck if you ever need actual support and your carrier won't cut it. I wouldn't trust an Apple genius farther than I can throw him but at least they're there and you can cuss someone out if there's something really wrong with your crap.

 

[Archer75]

But what makes it nicer on android is you can set events so when a phone call comes in it automagically uses the phone app of your choice and when a text comes in it can be set to use your gvoice app.

I don't have a texting plan. I use gv for all texts and calls with the phone dialer (Dialer One) set to make outgoing calls and the GVoice app set to handle all texting and voicemails.

You can use the google voice app on ios and wp7 for texting and voicemails. You don't have to "set" anything special on the phone. Just give people your GV number. Same on android. I use it on all my devices and don't have a texting plan either.

The ONLY difference between devices with google voice is on android you can set the phone to use google voice for all outgoing calls which means the other person sees that number on their caller id. And if you don't care about that then it doesn't matter. At that point all phones have 100% identical GV operation.
You can also change your google voice number so it is the same number as your cell if you so wish. But I don't bother with that. Everyone has my GV number and only my GV number.

 

[mope54]

If you use it on both android and iOS devices I can't understand how you are claiming they are identical in ease of use. It's simply not true. I already outlined how I use it on my captivate compared to my iPod touch and previously on my iPhone 3gs and then on my iPhone 4.

You *can't* set default programs in iOS. It's not a matter of whether you have to or not, there is not option to. Give people your GV number and the call will come in on the GV app. When they call or text you on an android phone the calls and texts will come in on the regular apps. Make a call from the phone dialer and it will call out from your GV account. Do that on iOS dialer and it will dial out from your cell number, there is no possible way to set the default dialer to use GV by default or any other way.

If you want to use GV on your iPhone you'll have the dialer for incoming and outgoing calls on your cell plan, the default text app for cell plan texting, and a GV app for handling google voice data. If you want to use GV off network you have to set up a SIP service and something like groundwire. And as noted, the iPhone has no way to sync to one's google contacts without a third party service like soocial.

On an android device, you don't have to use anything other than a single default app for everything, including inputting a SIP service. After the first time something happens you can toggle what you want to handle those events as default from then on out. The way to use them between the two platforms is different by a wide margin. If you've actually used both simultaneously then I shouldn't have to explain this, but for anyone planning on switching the difference is worth noting.

 

[Zorachus]

I can wrap up this thread right now. Do not make a decision on a new phone yet, until the two HUGE releases are officially revealed; Apple's iPhone5 on October 4th, and Google/Androids new Nexus device on October 11th. See what both devices will be like, and their OS updates etc...then make a decision after that.

 

[Archer75]

If you use it on both android and iOS devices I can't understand how you are claiming they are identical in ease of use. It's simply not true. I already outlined how I use it on my captivate compared to my iPod touch and previously on my iPhone 3gs and then on my iPhone 4.

You *can't* set default programs in iOS. It's not a matter of whether you have to or not, there is not option to. Give people your GV number and the call will come in on the GV app. When they call or text you on an android phone the calls and texts will come in on the regular apps. Make a call from the phone dialer and it will call out from your GV account. Do that on iOS dialer and it will dial out from your cell number, there is no possible way to set the default dialer to use GV by default or any other way.

If you want to use GV on your iPhone you'll have the dialer for incoming and outgoing calls on your cell plan, the default text app for cell plan texting, and a GV app for handling google voice data. If you want to use GV off network you have to set up a SIP service and something like groundwire. And as noted, the iPhone has no way to sync to one's google contacts without a third party service like soocial.

On an android device, you don't have to use anything other than a single default app for everything, including inputting a SIP service. After the first time something happens you can toggle what you want to handle those events as default from then on out. The way to use them between the two platforms is different by a wide margin. If you've actually used both simultaneously then I shouldn't have to explain this, but for anyone planning on switching the difference is worth noting.

You dont need to set default apps. You call your gv number and it rings your iphone, not the app. Just set forwarding on the website. All voicemail and texts are in the app. There is no reason to use the default apps when you can just use the gv app for text and voicemails.

And i said the only difference with call outs on other devices is the person who receives your call wont see your gv number in their caller id like they will from an android phone.

I have no need to use the gv dialer for anything. I have plenty of minutes and if I need wifi calling there are apps for that as well.

I do have both android and ios devices.

Also, the iphone syncs google contacts just fine.

 

[mope54]

I don't understand how you're arguing over this. They don't work identically. You say they do but in the same post you say except for the fact that if you dial out the other person will be receiving a call from your cell number instead of gv ,and that you don't have a need for GV wifi calling, which are in my opinion two main features of using gv. Regardless of whether you use them they are differences and need to be noted for someone who doesn't use both platforms so please quit arguing they work identically.

 

[Archer75]

I don't understand how you're arguing over this. They don't work identically. You say they do but in the same post you say except for the fact that if you dial out the other person will be receiving a call from your cell number instead of gv ,and that you don't have a need for GV wifi calling, which are in my opinion two main features of using gv. Regardless of whether you use them they are differences and need to be noted for someone who doesn't use both platforms so please quit arguing they work identically.

I didnt say identically. I said the only difference is caller id on outgoing calls.

I have yet to here a single person suggest the main reason for gv is wifi calling. Most people say its the call forwarding features and free texting. Though it makes sense for international calls. The ios app does have a dialer. Looks like wifi calling would work there too.

But you're right, people should know the differences so I was correcting some of your points.

 

[mope54]

You actually did say that other than the caller ID issue they were 100% identical unless you didn't write post 95. So you've never heard of someone wanting to use gv for off cell calling? Well apparently if you don't experience an issue it must not be one then, which explains why it's no big deal to you that when you call out from your phone it's one number to people but if they want to call back or text they've got to use a different number.

I tend to think of the people i'm calling because they don't find phones and googly things fun in and of themselves like so many of here do. when those people see a number in their call log and they just want to shoot a text back without remembering which number is for what thing they can do to it.

ultimately your ability to use all of googles functions on your iPhone depend primarily on apps that have to be updated and approved. It was a few years before gv apps were an option and kouvacs used to have to update his app because google would break the api but now that's less of a problem since they have an official iPhone app.

But you can't a simply say oh they're the same except caller id.

 

[Ashton]

I can wrap up this thread right now. Do not make a decision on a new phone yet, until the two HUGE releases are officially revealed; Apple's iPhone5 on October 4th, and Google/Androids new Nexus device on October 11th. See what both devices will be like, and their OS updates etc...then make a decision after that.

QFT

While I think both of the phones will only be relativly minor upgrades from their previous editions, I cannot begin to explain the hype behind so many of these devices and it flops (EVO 3D is a prime example - though most people on here knew the 3D would be a gimmic)

 

[Impulse]

GV Wifi calling is huge for anyone near a router but with low cell signal... Or for anyone looking to save a bit on wireless minutes. I'm not in either camp, but I can certainly see a huge value in it. I'd probably use Wifi calling in a few labs where I usually get no Sprint signal.

 

[Ashton]

GV Wifi calling is huge for anyone near a router but with low cell signal... Or for anyone looking to save a bit on wireless minutes. I'm not in either camp, but I can certainly see a huge value in it. I'd probably use Wifi calling in a few labs where I usually get no Sprint signal.

A lot of people have issues with that, I've heard. Personally, all I can get GV to do it call me, then call the 2nd person, making it a local call for both of us, but still requiring a phone line of some kind on my end. Because of this I spend $2.95 on Skype for outgoing calls. I've never used it for incoming calls (that's an additional fee) nor for SMS, however, based on my experience, it shoudl work fine (I ran it on my EVO and made calls using it to save minutes and had only an occasional bit of static, no worse than an old analog cellphone at the worst)

 

[mope54]

why pay Skype? I told you how to do free calling on your iphone: use a sipgate account forwarded to the groundwire app.

 

[Ashton]

why pay Skype? I told you how to do free calling on your iphone: use a sipgate account forwarded to the groundwire app.

I've tried this method using an app who's name escapes me and SIPgate, my carrier killed all calls made over the cellular signal, even if I re-processed it through WiFi onto another device. This ONLY worked when I had a hard-wire internet connection and 99% of my calls are made from the road. I can use skype over cellular, but not SIPgate...

EDIT:
and btw, there are 4 hotspots in the entire REGION (which includes 3 counties and 4 cities) so... yeah... not an option...

 

[mobusta1]

iPhone>>>>>>>>>>>android, end of discussion.

 

[CHANG3D]

iPhone>>>>>>>>>>>android, end of discussion.

I have to whole-heartedly agree with mobusta1 on this one.

iPhone is way better than Android (phones), end of discussion, at making people spend money on things they could get for free or cheap and the alternative is also possibly way better than the one they spend more money on. iPhone is also way better than Android, end of discussion, on blinding people of better alternatives.

Marketing works.

 

[triska]

Originally posted by Ashton:

Both are great phones with great stability and great battery life (though Android sometimes requires some tweaking to achieve the latter)

If your a hard-core nerd who likes mucking around in linux files and cobbeling together your own code, then hands-down you want Android

If your a casual user who wants the phone to always work and rarely needs anything but the basics your better off with an iPhone.

Well put - if you like to customize and fiddle and tweak, android - otherwise if you don't mind those extras and just want a phone to do everything for you...well iphone will suit you well

 

[CHANG3D]

Well put - if you like to customize and fiddle and tweak, android - otherwise if you don't mind those extras and just want a phone to do everything for you...well iphone will suit you well

But then there are android phones that you don't have to tweak or fiddle and they still work better than an iPhone, phones such as the Samsung Galaxy SII like the Epic Touch.

There are androids for everyone, where as there is only one iPhone.

 

[Blown 89]

But then there are android phones that you don't have to tweak or fiddle and they still work better than an iPhone, phones such as the Samsung Galaxy SII like the Epic Touch.

There are androids for everyone, where as there is only one iPhone.

Agreed. iPhones take just as much fiddling out of the box as Android phones. This line of reasoning that Android phones need all sorts of tweaking to work is not true. Every phone you buy will need to have some basic things set up.

 

[W.Feather]

ahhh, the good ol' iPhone troll....

iPhone>>>>>>>>>>>android, end of discussion.

 

[brucedeluxe169]

Well put - if you like to customize and fiddle and tweak, android - otherwise if you don't mind those extras and just want a phone to do everything for you...well iphone will suit you well

After finally getting a Nexus S for the girlfriend, and seeing what an unmolested, native build of Android looks like, I gotta disagree. Android done right, and kept unbastardized, doesn't really need any tweaking or fiddling to work well.... you just have to get the right phone (pretty much any Nexus, heh)

 

[Ashton]

After finally getting a Nexus S for the girlfriend, and seeing what an unmolested, native build of Android looks like, I gotta disagree. Android done right, and kept unbastardized, doesn't really need any tweaking or fiddling to work well.... you just have to get the right phone (pretty much any Nexus, heh)

You should look at cyanogen mod. It's a pure aosp build and my personal favorite, though it does of course require rooting to install but with utilities like unrevoked root is quite simple on most poPular phones now.

 

[brucedeluxe169]

You should look at cyanogen mod. It's a pure aosp build and my personal favorite, though it does of course require rooting to install but with utilities like unrevoked root is quite simple on most poPular phones now.

I'm on Cyanogenmod for my current phone (Samsung Vibrant) And before that, I ran it on my myTouch 4G.

An AOSP derived ROM is now a prereq for any phone I ever buy, but in the future, I personally will probably be buying only Nexus phones after seeing how much better the Nexus S works than my Vibrant, despite having the same hardware specs.

I respect the work the Cyanogen guys do, but on my Vibrant, support is spotty (none of the dev team have Vibrants anymore, lol), and on the myTouch battery life was horrible. Its pretty hit or miss. I know on the HTC EVO Shift and EVO 4G Cyanogenmod worked faster than stock *AND* offered better battery life...

My problem is just that in my experience, its been hit or miss... I think my household is going all Nexus in the future...

 

[Blown 89]

My problem is just that in my experience, its been hit or miss... I think my household is going all Nexus in the future...

My girlfriend bought a Nexus too. She thinks it's much easier to use than my old iPhone. I thought I was going to have to set it up for her but she had it running and ready to go before I even got home....not bad for someone that needs instructions on how to reboot our.

I agree, compared to my Vibrant the Nexus runs a lot better. So much so that I think I might buy Prime out of pocket if it has decent storage and a good camera. Don't get me wrong, I love my Vibrant but T-mobile dropping support pissed me off. That wasn't a big deal until the rumored features of ICS started surfacing.

 

[MrCrispy]

Look, if you're on [H], or any other forum for that matter, you probably have the ability to root/tweak your phone, and want to. That's not true for 99% of customers.

And they are perfectly happy with their Android phones. Unless you have a really old device, they all run perfectly fine (even with carrier bloatware which nobody notices), have much more free content than iPhone, more capabilities (like Intents across the OS, replacing keyboards), and does everything you need. And people don't really care if its Froyo/GB - all they want is to make calls, play games and use apps. These are appliances, not pc's. If you are willing to tweak (which Android lets you), you accept the risks.

iOS is more popular and is 'cooler', iPhones have better battery life than many other phones. Other than that, Android is cheaper, more powerful, and more functional.

Switching from Android->iOS has never impressed anyone (other than the stability if you came from a rooted phone with experimental rom's).

Give an Android phone to an iPhone user, and they are amazed at how much more a phone can do.

 

[Ashton]

I know on the HTC EVO Shift and EVO 4G Cyanogenmod worked faster than stock *AND* offered better battery life...

Oh sweetbajebuz! I went from ~8 hours on stock to a whopping 40 hours when I got CYM, a low-voltager-kernal, and some other tweaks installed! (though I did have an extended battery too) Even with heavy useage (minus WiFi tethering - that still ate my battery to 4-8 hours MAX) It also allowed full HDMI-mirroring, though I never used the feature (I just cant get that HDMI plug to fit into my component-based Projector! seriously, planning to get a DAC for it)

And they are perfectly happy with their Android phones. Unless you have a really old device, they all run perfectly fine (even with carrier bloatware which nobody notices), have much more free content than iPhone, more capabilities (like Intents across the OS, replacing keyboards), and does everything you need.

-snip-

iOS is more popular and is 'cooler', iPhones have better battery life than many other phones. Other than that, Android is cheaper, more powerful, and more functional.
Switching from Android->iOS has never impressed anyone (other than the stability if you came from a rooted phone with experimental rom's).
Give an Android phone to an iPhone user, and they are amazed at how much more a phone can do.

The battery life is a major plus for iPhone, Android requires a lot of tweaking to get even close to it in many cases, and yes Stability is about the only thing I noticed (except a little bit of GUI lag - but that's probably fixed in the newest phones)

Stability *can* be an issue with certain apps because they were written for a different Android device with different hardware. Though I've personally only seen this once (some app I got either filled 1/2 the screen or overflowed past it - cant remember which one at this point so obviously it wasnt important) Though I'd say this is an uncommon problem unless, as you said, somone is using an older phone or one with a non-standard screen-size (Kyocera Echo and Moto XPRT come to mind, though I've not tested them)

But there is 1 thing that is a big plus for iPhone - the sheer volume of accessories (Video out cables, stands, docks, etc) that come from the standardization along with the fact that it still supports analog output (to date I've not seen an android device that supports anything but HDMI-out). While I dont think most of the users on this forum care about any of this (except maybe the analog-out for older TVs/Projectors) Its worth pointing out because the vast majority of iPhones are sold to "non-geeks" who will at MOST jailbreak them for 1 or 2 apps, and never spend the hours tweaking them that we spend tweaking Androids.

EDIT:
oh and yes, most android phones DO work acceptably out-of-the-box with no tweaking required.
Note that I said "acceptably" as in "most consumers dont mind" Anybody on here will likely notice the lag, the less-than-steller battery-life, etc, but the average Joe on the street will find an un-modded Android basically just as good "out of the box" as an iPhone (provided it's a newer device, of course).

 

[MrCrispy]

Oh sweetbajebuz! I went from ~8 hours on stock to a whopping 40 hours when I got CYM, a low-voltager-kernal, and some other tweaks installed! (though I did have an extended battery too) Even with heavy useage (minus WiFi tethering - that still ate my battery to 4-8 hours MAX) It also allowed full HDMI-mirroring, though I never used the feature (I just cant get that HDMI plug to fit into my component-based Projector! seriously, planning to get a DAC for it)



The battery life is a major plus for iPhone, Android requires a lot of tweaking to get even close to it in many cases, and yes Stability is about the only thing I noticed (except a little bit of GUI lag - but that's probably fixed in the newest phones)

Stability *can* be an issue with certain apps because they were written for a different Android device with different hardware. Though I've personally only seen this once (some app I got either filled 1/2 the screen or overflowed past it - cant remember which one at this point so obviously it wasnt important) Though I'd say this is an uncommon problem unless, as you said, somone is using an older phone or one with a non-standard screen-size (Kyocera Echo and Moto XPRT come to mind, though I've not tested them)

But there is 1 thing that is a big plus for iPhone - the sheer volume of accessories (Video out cables, stands, docks, etc) that come from the standardization along with the fact that it still supports analog output (to date I've not seen an android device that supports anything but HDMI-out). While I dont think most of the users on this forum care about any of this (except maybe the analog-out for older TVs/Projectors) Its worth pointing out because the vast majority of iPhones are sold to "non-geeks" who will at MOST jailbreak them for 1 or 2 apps, and never spend the hours tweaking them that we spend tweaking Androids.

EDIT:
oh and yes, most android phones DO work acceptably out-of-the-box with no tweaking required.
Note that I said "acceptably" as in "most consumers dont mind" Anybody on here will likely notice the lag, the less-than-steller battery-life, etc, but the average Joe on the street will find an un-modded Android basically just as good "out of the box" as an iPhone (provided it's a newer device, of course).

A few caveats -

- if you buy a used iPhone, you're taking a big gamble on the battery, which is non-replaceable. I've been burnt by this, as the phone battery was pretty worn down. With Android (and many WP7, RIM) devices, a new battery is $10 online and can be replaced in minutes.

- the huge no. of accessories for iPhone is also a temptation to buy crap that's much more expensive because of the Apple name and the proprietary connector ensures you can't use it with anything else. Unlike say a standard sd card or micro usb. There is no reason this kind of stuff (like car integration) shouldn't work with all devices.

 

[arcturus]

A lot of people have issues with that, I've heard. Personally, all I can get GV to do it call me, then call the 2nd person, making it a local call for both of us, but still requiring a phone line of some kind on my end. Because of this I spend $2.95 on Skype for outgoing calls. I've never used it for incoming calls (that's an additional fee) nor for SMS, however, based on my experience, it shoudl work fine (I ran it on my EVO and made calls using it to save minutes and had only an occasional bit of static, no worse than an old analog cellphone at the worst)

Seamless integration with GV ... Talkatone for iPhone and GrooVe IP for Android.

Both are great.