Should i buy a PPU?

[ScYcS]

“i don't see any gameplay enhancements apart from "prettier". And i don't see the 20 blockbuster games either.”
I bet the 20 blockbuster games are Ageia API games IE stuff like Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas & Gears Of War e.c.t There must be over 100 games that use Ageia physics API out now and it wouldn’t surprise me if many where classed as blockbuster by Ageia. Where was the 20 blockbuster comments from? Was it PC platform only? As a guess I would say all platforms.

What counts as a block buster game? How many sales does it have to have?

I don’t have time to dig out gameplay enhancements videos perhaps later one. I have to go out in a min.

EDIT: Look up Infernal its not out yet but it appears to have the PPU gameplay enhancements you want to see. Will see what I can find when I can home later.

Dude, justify your purchase as much as you want. I'm happy you're happy you like your card. Fact still remains that (even if there are 100 games out supporting the card) none of the games is worth playing with the PPU functionality enabled. At least not for $200.

Let's just be honest: People who bought the card for $300 or $200 now bought a whole bunch of nothing right now.

 

[Dan_D]

Dude, justify your purchase as much as you want. I'm happy you're happy you like your card. Fact still remains that (even if there are 100 games out supporting the card) none of the games is worth playing with the PPU functionality enabled. At least not for $200.

Let's just be honest: People who bought the card for $300 or $200 now bought a whole bunch of nothing right now.

Agreed.

What the card can do on paper and in demos is impressive. I don't think anyone in this forum would deny that. (Well there is always one.)

In any case, the fact remains that what is being done with the PhysX processor is not revolutionary yet and there is not any titles out there that get people excited about these cards. As I said in my last post, many people are going to wait and see what physics processing method becomes the standard method in the months or years to come. No one wants to buy a $200 or $300 card that sits in our machines wasting space and doing nothing.

 

[SuperGee]

I see BOS sahara is out. Nice desert theme. With PhysX.
Don't like the car game it does look crude the GFX but it's a first step. I ám more into need for speed series. A race game with nice cars.
inferno never heard off but if it's something like cellfactor i'am interrested?
I also see on ageia site, that 5 game engines suports PhysX so unreal3 isn't the only one.
The PhysX games I waiting for are
Cellfactor revolution. It's more about gameplay physics.
Unreal tournament 2007. I suspect this would be more a effectPhysics game.

2007 will be the year that ageia must come thru to exist as a player in the Hardware accelerated Physics market.

I would go for 4GB now 1GB is to low for a optimal Gamerig. And fits better with Vista and DX10 game capability.

Right after that I would wait till ageia PCIE PPU cards are out and slam one in it. If you gonne like a few PhysX games.

I will make a Vista game rig with 4GB off mem. And slam a PPU in it as the finishing touch. Somewhere in begin 2007.
HavokFX have the same ploblem the star from zero to 1 2 etc games just like ageia did. And that offcourse take just as long as Ageia does. It takes a while to make a game.

 

[ScYcS]

HavokFX have the same ploblem the star from zero to 1 2 etc games just like ageia did. And that offcourse take just as long as Ageia does. It takes a while to make a game.

And here you are completely wrong. You don't have to pay $200-$300 for a HavokFX card, since there is none. The HavokFX effects are not bound to a 3rd party card purchase.

 

[Dan_D]

I see BOS sahara is out. Nice desert theme. With PhysX.
Don't like the car game it does look crude the GFX but it's a first step. I ám more into need for speed series. A race game with nice cars.
inferno never heard off but if it's something like cellfactor i'am interrested?
I also see on ageia site, that 5 game engines suports PhysX so unreal3 isn't the only one.
The PhysX games I waiting for are
Cellfactor revolution. It's more about gameplay physics.
Unreal tournament 2007. I suspect this would be more a effectPhysics game.

2007 will be the year that ageia must come thru to exist as a player in the Hardware accelerated Physics market.

I would go for 4GB now 1GB is to low for a optimal Gamerig. And fits better with Vista and DX10 game capability.

Right after that I would wait till ageia PCIE PPU cards are out and slam one in it. If you gonne like a few PhysX games.

I will make a Vista game rig with 4GB off mem. And slam a PPU in it as the finishing touch. Somewhere in begin 2007.
HavokFX have the same ploblem the star from zero to 1 2 etc games just like ageia did. And that offcourse take just as long as Ageia does. It takes a while to make a game.

4GB won't get you anything more with Vista. I don't know where this rumor started, but it should stop. If you go with 32bit Vista, (and I suspect some of you will) you will experience the SAME limitations as you do now with 32bit Windows XP. Or at the very least, most of the limitations will be present. It may choose to enable a PAE work around on it's own during installation, but really that won't net you much.

2GB is hardly used by games. It's actually more like 1.5GB and many games still only use 1GB of ram.

Some of us have already run Vista on 2GB machines and have looked at the memory usage and found it doesn't need 4GB at this point in time. I wouldn't recommend 4GB for the masses until 2GB chips hit the price point of 1GB chips.

And here you are completely wrong. You don't have to pay $200-$300 for a HavokFX card, since there is none. The HavokFX effects are not bound to a 3rd party card purchase.

Nope. That's why companies are attracted to the idea. This excerpt was taken from the Havok website.

Havok FX™ is a special effects SDK and tool chain that leverages Shader Model 3.0 class GPUs to enable ten's of thousands of object collisions occurring in real-time, without putting additional burden on the CPU or otherwise slowing down the game. Havok FX integrates seamlessly with Havok's industry-leading game-play physics technology found in Havok Complete™, allowing game-critical objects to interact with each other in split second timing, spawning eye-popping special effects physics that adds complexity and realism to the game-play experience.

The website can be found here: http://www.havok.com/content/view/72/57/
The Havok FX article is here: http://www.havok.com/content/view/187/77/

This allows any Shader model 3.0 GPU to work with Havok FX from what I gathered on the site. That means you could use existing cards, and extra cards capable of shader 3.0 to do the work. This seems like the way to go in my opinion.

 

[ScYcS]

qft (without actually quoting).

And that's also why i think it's easier for Havok to find partners than it is for "the other" company. I don't think both companies start off at the same level. Ever since Havok/ati/nvidia announced their news about using a gpu for physics, the days for aegia were numbered unless they could come up with some killer app. And they haven't so far.

The Aegia card is the Voodoo6000 of the modern age. Great hardware but failed terribly.

 

[Dan_D]

It's possible that Ageia's PhysX card will be proven to tbe the superior method and we'll find it in high end gaming PC's the same way we found Diamond Monster 3D's and other similar 3DFX Voodoo 1 cards back in the day.

But that won't happen without a killer app, like we've been saying all along. They need a game like Quake 1 was to Glide that really shows off what the card can really do, that's popular enough to get people wanting them. I guarantee if the PhysX card somehow improved the Sims and Sims 2, people everywhere would be buying them. Women would go nuts for them, and guys would buy them for their girlfriends and their games as well.

 

[Pottsey]

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=39558 Infernal could well be the killer app Ageia need.




”right now in my opinion and in the opnions of others too. The sales figures prove that.”
What sales figures? If you have some I would love to see them.





“don't see any gameplay enhancements apart from "prettier".”
The liquid from the chemical grenades hurts you. Surly that’s classed as physics gameplay not just "prettier”

As for the racing game you can blow up a building and the rubble can slow down the car chasing you. Its not just pretty effects as the rubble hits you. So you can use rubble to slow someone down in a race or blow a hole in a wall and drive though.






“I see BOS sahara is out. Nice desert theme. With PhysX.”
The 3rd game is now out Bet On Soldier: Blackout Saigon which I meant to be even better but I have been unable to get hold of it in English.

 

[Dan_D]

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=39558 Infernal could well be the killer app Ageia need.

Perhaps it is. We will see.

”right now in my opinion and in the opnions of others too. The sales figures prove that.”
What sales figures? If you have some I would love to see them.

I would too, and I couldn't actually find any. They haven't been announced. Additionally, I know no one that has purchased one of these things. I know plenty of computer enthusiasts, and some with deep pockets too. Considering what the PhysX card can do for you today in games, this doesn't surprise me. Plus the bulk of posts about this card in this forum generally echo my sentiments. So, I get the feeling this card isn't doing so hot right now.

“don't see any gameplay enhancements apart from "prettier".”
The liquid from the chemical grenades hurts you. Surly that’s classed as physics gameplay not just "prettier”

No one doubts that the PhysX card is capable of alot. What has it done revolutionary to gameplay today? Surely you have more examples than that. Because I've got to tell you, that alone and even things like that in current games doesn't seem to be wowing too many people besides yourself. The tech demos are impressive, the actual games so far aren't.

As for the racing game you can blow up a building and the rubble can slow down the car chasing you. Its not just pretty effects as the rubble hits you. So you can use rubble to slow someone down in a race or blow a hole in a wall and drive though.

“I see BOS sahara is out. Nice desert theme. With PhysX.”
The 3rd game is now out Bet On Soldier: Blackout Saigon which I meant to be even better but I have been unable to get hold of it in English.

How is this different from Need for Speed Most Wanted, Need for Speed Carbon and Flatout 2? The latter of which does most of what you are talking about VERY well. It doesn't include shooting through walls, so that part is out. Bet on Soldier doesn't seem to be wowing too many people if you head into the gaming section of this forum. I haven't heard anyone talking about this title, and from the looks of it, I am not all that interested. Is there a compelling reason I should be?

 

[ScYcS]

Pottsey,

obviously you have bought a PPU. Of course, i could be wrong, but i have a strong feeling that you did. How much did you pay for it and when did you buy it?

Would you please share with the community which actually RELEASED games (no demos, no "will be released shortly", no such things. I'm interested in games that everyone can go and buy in say...BestBuy) you're playing with your PPU taking advantage of accelerated gameplay physics enhancements that go beyond visuals? And which enhancements those are?

PS: i have a feeling that this list will be very short.

 

[Pottsey]

“How is this different from Need for Speed Most Wanted, Need for Speed Carbon and Flatout 2?”
90% of objects in those games are solid and indestructible compared to pretty much 100% that are destructible in the PPU racing game well I assume Flatout 2 is like Need for speed? The objects that can be damaged in Need for speed are single objects like a lamppost that does not break into multiply bits like they do in AA

Never played Flatout but in Need for speed when you hit a lamppost or bus stops its one or two large object that move. If you knock the lamppost flying and another car hits it the post just bounces around there is no force or impact calculations. In the PPU racing game the speed, weight and force of the car are taken into effect when objects hit you. Liquids even weight down fences and affect the ground you’re driving on. In Need for speed liquids well do nothing but make dots on the screen.

As for the buildings well you can knock a sheet of class down or a small wall but the building still stands and most buildings cannot be damaged. Or the towers fall down as one large object which then does not move even if you hit at 200miles per hour.

In the PPU games if you shoot the walls or crash like in NFS then complete building falls down and shatters into tons of bits. Towers shatters into lots of bits and if hit at 200miles per hour go flying. That and nearly every building can be destroyed if enough force is used. The exception being main NPC storyline buildings but thats normal for a MMORPG NPC’s that gives quests tend to be invincible.





“I haven't heard anyone talking about this title, and from the looks of it, I am not all that interested. Is there a compelling reason I should be?”
It seems to be popular around Europe more France and Germany but not very popular in USA or England. Most be a culture thing, different place’s like different games.






“What has it done revolutionary to gameplay today?”
Nothing yet that I am aware off. I find its improved gameplay but it’s a long way from being revolutionary with the current games.

 

[Dan_D]

“How is this different from Need for Speed Most Wanted, Need for Speed Carbon and Flatout 2?”
90% of objects in those games are solid and indestructible compared to pretty much 100% that are destructible in the PPU racing game well I assume Flatout 2 is like Need for speed? The objects that can be damaged in Need for speed are single objects like a lamppost that does not break into multiply bits like they do in AA

I am quite well aware of how things are done now. I was addressing your previous post specifically in which you did not name anything other than shooting holes in walls that NFSMW, NFSC, and Flatout 2 did not already do and in the case of Flatout 2, do very well.

Never played Flatout but in Need for speed when you hit a lamppost or bus stops its one or two large object that move. If you knock the lamppost flying and another car hits it the post just bounces around there is no force or impact calculations. In the PPU racing game the speed, weight and force of the car are taken into effect when objects hit you. Liquids even weight down fences and affect the ground you’re driving on. In Need for speed liquids well do nothing but make dots on the screen.

I realize how this works, but my point is that what can be done with physics processing really hasn't been done in current games and certainly not to the extent of what the hardware can actually do.

As for the buildings well you can knock a sheet of class down or a small wall but the building still stands and most buildings cannot be damaged. Or the towers fall down as one large object which then does not move even if you hit at 200miles per hour.

True enough, and one day physics processing in some form will change that. That's not what we are actually talking about here. The question is "Should I buy a PPU." The answer is still "No." At this point, not enough has been done with the PhysX card to justify it's price. Additionally we don't know what physics processing solution will win ultimately. Until there is more of an idea of what will happen and what will become standard, I recommend people holding off on the PhysX card because right now, they just don't do enough in real games to justify the price as I've said before.

Did you ever buy a Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 or 3000 card? Permedia 2? Rendition Verite? Perhaps a Matrox card or even a Power VR card? If you did, you might remember how none of those solutions went anywhere and the 3DFX Voodoo chipset rocked everyone's world and became the defacto standard for 3D hardware in the gaming industry. The other solutions all died off. Eventually ATI and NVIDIA fixed that and gave us at least two choices, but in the beginning the 3DFX Glide API was the only way to go. OpenGL and D3D weren't really even on the map in the consumer gaming market at the time.

In the PPU games if you shoot the walls or crash like in NFS then complete building falls down and shatters into tons of bits. Towers shatters into lots of bits and if hit at 200miles per hour go flying. That and nearly every building can be destroyed if enough force is used. The exception being main NPC storyline buildings but thats normal for a MMORPG NPC’s that gives quests tend to be invincible.

It doesn't work that way in all games, I know what is possible with the PPU, and your MMO game seems to be the only game with most of these attributes present. GRAW certainly doesn't have all these features.

“I haven't heard anyone talking about this title, and from the looks of it, I am not all that interested. Is there a compelling reason I should be?”
It seems to be popular around Europe more France and Germany but not very popular in USA or England. Most be a culture thing, different place’s like different games.

Well that's the way things work I am afraid.

“What has it done revolutionary to gameplay today?”
Nothing yet that I am aware off. I find its improved gameplay but it’s a long way from being revolutionary with the current games.

Precisely my point and why I don't think anyone should purchase one today.

 

[Pottsey]

“PS: i have a feeling that this list will be very short. Of course, i could be wrong, but i have a strong feeling that you did. How much did you pay for it and when did you buy it?
Yes it’s a short list. As for price and date I just looked though my emails and nothing came out. So it must have been more then 6 months ago as the mail older then that is achieved. I don’t recall the price but it wasn’t as cheap as it is now. If you’re really want to know I can dig though my achieved mail.




“Would you please share with the community which actually RELEASED games (no demos, no "will be released shortly", no such things…..”
Well when I decided to buy the PPU I looked at games I was going to get and the games I had. Most of my PPU apps don’t count under you rules so its Bet on Soldier: Blood Sport, Bet on Soldier Blood of Sahara, Ghost Recon, I have Rise of Legends but the patch isn’t out yet and I really thought it would be. I can understand tech demos not counting but why not demos of games I have on per order?

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas installed but not got around to playing or checking if it has PPU support or not. I find a few Ageia games I have do not support the PPU.

UT 2007 and Scared 2 had an impact on me buying the PPU but they are not out yet.




“you're playing with your PPU taking advantage of accelerated gameplay physics enhancements that go beyond visuals?”
Well in both Bet on Soldier games I get a performance boost and the liquids effects are not just visual you even earn bonus money from killing someone by blowing up a canister containing liquid which explodes over someone. The chemical grenades the enemy use have caught me a few times as well.

Ghost Recon some areas give a performance boost, some a drop without the patch and new drivers the performance drop was large. No gameplay physics as that’s done by Havok. I do find it looks better in motion in fact at the LAN people noticed it looked better and asked how I got the extra effects but it’s not very impressive next to Bet on Soldier in of course no gameplay change.

1 more PPU game but as I am not going play/install it not going count it.

 

[Pottsey]

”Power VR card? If you did, you might remember how none of those solutions went anywhere and the 3DFX Voodoo chipset rocked everyone's world and became the defacto standard for 3D hardware in the gaming industry. The other solutions all died off”.
Not the best example, Sorry I cannot resist (PowerVR Fan boy here). PowerVR didn’t die off they did well with lots of game support not as much as 3DFX mind you but still in the 100’s. They are still going strong today it was 3DFX that died off. When 3DFX last card came out PowerVR had sold millions of cards and survived. 3DFX where more popular but sales wise I believe over all platforms they sold a lot less then PowerVR. Most people buying PowerVR cards/chips don’t even realise it was a powervr card.


One of the reason I want to see PPU sales numbers is forums are not a good indication of how popular a card is. Going by forums you would think 3DFX rocked and PowerVR sucked in 2000 yet the Voodoo 5 didn’t sell that well and PoweVR sold millions in the same year.






“The question is "Should I buy a PPU." The answer is still "No." At this point,”
I half agree. I see a PPU as a luxury item. Its not a must have item but its nice to have.

Look at your games if you have some now with PPU support it might be worth it. If you have a nice system already a PPU could be worth it but only if you play the few PPU games that are out. It all comes down to how you vaule money and what system you have and how much time you spend in 1 game. Perhaps a 1gig of ram is better but if you already have 3gig then and play COH loads then a PPU is better.

If your a big MMORPG fan and spends lots of time in one of the two MMORPG with PPU support then a PPU might be a nice card to have.

 

[Axion22]

Won't multi-core CPUs make this obselete soon? If I'm wrong, educate me.

Seems to me if one is going to be able to get up to 8 cores in a system, surely one could be designated for physics.

 

[Dan_D]

”Power VR card? If you did, you might remember how none of those solutions went anywhere and the 3DFX Voodoo chipset rocked everyone's world and became the defacto standard for 3D hardware in the gaming industry. The other solutions all died off”.
Not the best example, Sorry I cannot resist (PowerVR Fan boy here). PowerVR didn’t die off they did well with lots of game support not as much as 3DFX mind you but still in the 100’s. They are still going strong today it was 3DFX that died off. When 3DFX last card came out PowerVR had sold millions of cards and survived. 3DFX where more popular but sales wise I believe over all platforms they sold a lot less then PowerVR. Most people buying PowerVR cards/chips don’t even realise it was a powervr card.

Dude I don't know where the hell you are getting your information. Nothing on the web I've found agrees with you. They may have sold millions of chips, but not in the consumer PC market. Get your facts straight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/3dfxdemise/default.asp

One of the reason I want to see PPU sales numbers is forums are not a good indication of how popular a card is. Going by forums you would think 3DFX rocked and PowerVR sucked in 2000 yet the Voodoo 5 didn’t sell that well and PoweVR sold millions in the same year.

See the above linkage.

“The question is "Should I buy a PPU." The answer is still "No." At this point,”
I half agree. I see a PPU as a luxury item. Its not a must have item but its nice to have.

I wouldn't go that far at this point. We'll agree to disagree. *IF* I had an extra PCIe slot and they made the cards in PCIe, I'd consider getting one for $175-$200 but even then, there are no games that I want to play that use it, and even with GRAW, I don't seen enough bennefit to justify the cost.

Look at your games if you have some now with PPU support it might be worth it. If you have a nice system already a PPU could be worth it but only if you play the few PPU games that are out. It all comes down to how you vaule money and what system you have and how much time you spend in 1 game. Perhaps a 1gig of ram is better but if you already have 3gig then and play COH loads then a PPU is better.

True, but I still question the value of the PhysX card in those games that are out now. So far they do nothing spectacular for visuals or gameplay. Certainly nothing to justify the cost as far as I am concerned. It's little more than a "neat" product that's being underused at this point.

If your a big MMORPG fan and spends lots of time in one of the two MMORPG with PPU support then a PPU might be a nice card to have.

Perhaps.

 

[ScYcS]

so its Bet on Soldier: Blood Sport, Bet on Soldier Blood of Sahara, Ghost Recon

Essentially 3 games. actually more 2.5 games (bet on soldier 1 and expansion, it's not even a real new game). Ghost recon doesn't have any gameplay related physics to speak of. Leave 1.5 games retail. WOW.

And why not demos? Because you have absolutely no clue when these games come out. You can't base your PPU purchase on games that come out in 2015, can you? Well, you can, but it would be retarded.

And you have the balls to tell someone to purchase a card for $199 for these 1,5 games as of right now?

Dude, why should this guy then not simply wait until more games are released and the card might be $49 by then?

Suggesting a PPU is worth it's money currently is borderline criminal.

 

[Pottsey]

“Dude I don't know where the hell you are getting your information. Nothing on the web I've found agrees with you. They may have sold millions of chips, but not in the consumer PC market. Get your facts straight.”
I have got my facts straight ish I might not be precise on the numbers but PowerVR did not die and PoweVR chips did sell in the millions Kyro alone was over 1 million if not 2 million and that was consumer PC only chip. It’s a lot more when you include other markets. Your link didn’t say anything to disagree with me.

http://www.pvr-extremist.com/kyro2review1.asp
”over 1 million units shipped to date.” in reference to the Kyro II.





“And you have the balls to tell someone to purchase a card for $199 for these 1,5 games as of right now?”
I didn’t flat out say go buy it what ever. I said look at what games you play and only get it if your games support it.

There are also the free games but I didn’t list them as they don’t count by the rules laid out. Demos are still fun to play and give you something to do. Then there are the full games I don’t own along with the full games you can only buy online, I didnt count them as it was said only games from bestbuy count. There are about 8 to 12 full games out now and more out soon. Not sure if the new Unreal 3 engine games support the PPU or not. If not its closer to 8.





“And why not demos? Because you have absolutely no clue when these games come out.”
You still get hours of fun out of demos. If you’re having fun playing a demo and it use’s the PPU then it should count. If someone buys a 3D cards and spends most of there time on free games and demos its still a valid and useful. Same for the PPU as long as your using it and getting something out of it then it should not matter if it’s a full game from a shop or not.

 

[Manny Calavera]

“Dude I don't know where the hell you are getting your information. Nothing on the web I've found agrees with you. They may have sold millions of chips, but not in the consumer PC market. Get your facts straight.”
I have got my facts straight ish I might not be precise on the numbers but PowerVR did not die and PoweVR chips did sell in the millions Kyro alone was over 1 million if not 2 million and that was consumer PC only chip. It’s a lot more when you include other markets. Your link didn’t say anything to disagree with me.

http://www.pvr-extremist.com/kyro2review1.asp
”over 1 million units shipped to date.” in reference to the Kyro II.





“And you have the balls to tell someone to purchase a card for $199 for these 1,5 games as of right now?”
I didn’t flat out say go buy it what ever. I said look at what games you play and only get it if your games support it.

There are also the free games but I didn’t list them as they don’t count by the rules laid out. Demos are still fun to play and give you something to do. Then there are the full games I don’t own along with the full games you can only buy online, I didnt count them as it was said only games from bestbuy count. There are about 8 to 12 full games out now and more out soon. Not sure if the new Unreal 3 engine games support the PPU or not. If not its closer to 8.





“And why not demos? Because you have absolutely no clue when these games come out.”
You still get hours of fun out of demos. If you’re having fun playing a demo and it use’s the PPU then it should count. If someone buys a 3D cards and spends most of there time on free games and demos its still a valid and useful. Same for the PPU as long as your using it and getting something out of it then it should not matter if it’s a full game from a shop or not.

You wasted your money,Havok FX and or Direct X10 will be the dominating factor in hardware accelerated physics,in the years to come.Check out page 55 of my fave tech mag,got my January issue late this month,Its called CPU magazine... Greatest tech failure of 2006 is guess what ??

 

[Pottsey]

“You wasted your money,Havok FX and or Direct X10 will be the dominating factor in hardware accelerated physics,in the years to come.”
I have not wasted my money even if it fails I still got good value. I have enough games now for it to be useful and I am sure some of the others like Scared 2 will come out. Even if no new games go into development as long as a few more come out I will be happy. Mostly Scared 2 and UT2007 thats enough for me.

Also most of my favoured developers sighed up to use Ageia and dropped Havok both Unreal 3 and all the games based on the that engine and Bioware who make great RPG’s have moved to Ageia.

Lots of people say Havok FX will be the dominating factor but where is it? Where are the developers signed up to use it? What games are due out that support it? How can Ageia fail now they have great developers like Bioware sighed up? Havok FX seems to have died out I have not heard anything new about it in ages now. What’s its ETA? Has it be delayed or cancelled?

DX10 will not be taking off or be the dominating factor for years. I don’t expect Vista to be widespread or lots of games for it for at least 2 to 3 years.

 

[Dan_D]

“Dude I don't know where the hell you are getting your information. Nothing on the web I've found agrees with you. They may have sold millions of chips, but not in the consumer PC market. Get your facts straight.”
I have got my facts straight ish I might not be precise on the numbers but PowerVR did not die and PoweVR chips did sell in the millions Kyro alone was over 1 million if not 2 million and that was consumer PC only chip. It’s a lot more when you include other markets. Your link didn’t say anything to disagree with me.

http://www.pvr-extremist.com/kyro2review1.asp
”over 1 million units shipped to date.” in reference to the Kyro II.

I didn't say Power VR died. They didn't beat the 3DFX cards in sales or software adoption fand Glide API was the standard of the day. At the time of the Glide API's introduction, OpenGL performance was really very poor with consumer level graphics cards and Direct 3D wasn't even on the map. Additionally, Kyro II didn't do all that well compared to the Geforce 2 GTS. Remember the Kyro II can't do Hardware T&L. I remember the hype, and then it pretty much died after that. The Power VR desktop chips did about as well as the XGI Volari. XGI has several OEM contracts and I'm seeing them appear in Server's like the Dell Poweredge and so on as their onboard video solution. Do they threaten NVIDIA or ATI? Not hardly.

Back on topic, I just can't see a reason to buy a PhysX processor today. That may change in the future, who can know?

 

[djBon2112]

DX10 will not be taking off or be the dominating factor for years. I don’t expect Vista to be widespread or lots of games for it for at least 2 to 3 years.

I'd give it about a year TOPS. Microsoft is pushing this with all its force, and it isn't even out yet!

As to the PPU, seriously, it's a waste. Period. Spend the money on something like more RAM, or a better graphics card. The idea had potential, but not nearly enough game industry support to make it work. And come next gen, it'll all be about either multiple cores or doing it on GPUs anyways. Save your money, buy some alcohol

 

[Astrogiblet]

Dan D is a good man. I'm glad that while I was gone he was laying some sense down in this thread.

Its become obvious that people will try and come up with anything to justify spending stupid amounts of money on something thats completely useless.

Pottsey I have a PCI blower fan to sell you! And an electric turbo charger for your car!

Learn how to use the quote button, seriously!

 

[MrWizard6600]

I don't care if PPU's live or die. Just change the name. I LOATHE saying "PPU". UGH. lol. My only qualm with "PPU's".

whats wrong with PPUs?

CPU, GPUs, and PPUs. its perfect.

 

[Pottsey]

“Its become obvious that people will try and come up with anything to justify spending stupid amounts of money on something thats completely useless.!”
How can something that gives 10 to 20fps extra and new effects be classed as useless? Turn off the new effects and the boost is even more. I can agree its limited due to the small list of game support but it’s far from useless.







“Spend the money on something like more RAM, or a better graphics card.”
What happens if your addicted to a PPU game and already have a high end graphics card and lots of ram? Then a PPU might be worth it for the performance boost and extra effects. As I said before I see the PPU as a luxury item when you don’t need anything else and play a PPU game.

 

[djBon2112]

“Spend the money on something like more RAM, or a better graphics card.”
What happens if your addicted to a PPU game and already have a high end graphics card and lots of ram? Then a PPU might be worth it for the performance boost and extra effects. As I said before I see the PPU as a luxury item when you don’t need anything else and play a PPU game.

Yes, but notice how the OP only has 1 GB of RAM? That's a much better investment of his money than a PPU would be.

 

[Dan_D]

Yes, but notice how the OP only has 1 GB of RAM? That's a much better investment of his money than a PPU would be.

Absolutely, and that's what the bulk of the posts in this thread have been reflecting.

 

[Pottsey]

“Yes, but notice how the OP only has 1 GB of RAM? That's a much better investment of his money than a PPU would be.“
Shouldn’t you be asking him what games he plays, before saying 1 gig is better? Your making two many assumptions and there is a chance another gig is a waste of money. Which is better all depends on the games he plays. An extra gig of ram might do nothing for him.

 

[Dan_D]

“Yes, but notice how the OP only has 1 GB of RAM? That's a much better investment of his money than a PPU would be.“
Shouldn’t you be asking him what games he plays, before saying 1 gig is better? Your making two many assumptions and there is a chance another gig is a waste of money. Which is better all depends on the games he plays. An extra gig of ram might do nothing for him.

Nope.

The bulk of the games that came out after Battlefield 2 did all run better on 2GB of ram than 1GB. Even your Ageia PhysX enhanced games probably will bennefit more from 2GB of ram than the PPU card itself.

PS: Please learn to use the damn quote button.

 

[magoo]

Nope.

The bulk of the games that came out after Battlefield 2 did all run better on 2GB of ram than 1GB. Even your Ageia PhysX enhanced games probably will bennefit more from 2GB of ram than the PPU card itself.

PS: Please learn to use the damn quote button.

ROFL.........
ASide from that.......Dan, do you know if/when we are to see the third slot solution from nvidia????? ie graphics card based PPU.

 

[magoo]

Nope.

The bulk of the games that came out after Battlefield 2 did all run better on 2GB of ram than 1GB. Even your Ageia PhysX enhanced games probably will bennefit more from 2GB of ram than the PPU card itself.

PS: Please learn to use the damn quote button.

come from nvidia/ATI?????

 

[Dan_D]

ROFL.........
ASide from that.......Dan, do you know if/when we are to see the third slot solution from nvidia????? ie graphics card based PPU.

Nope. I am not sure if they are going to do a specific card designed for physics that has no monitor ports, or if they are going to just say, buy any Geforce 8 series GPU and use it for physics.

come from nvidia/ATI?????

Nope. I haven't heard of massive frame rate increases with the use of a PPU card, and even if there were, the annoyance of game stuttering due to disk swapping really makes another gigabyte of ram more appealing than a PPU. I've experienced this plenty of times on 1GB machines and even more so on 512MB machines with modern games. BF2 is one such example and BF 2142 is another. Other games using BF engines such as Star Wars Battlefront 2, RTS and MMO RPG games are all examples of this. It is true that most FPS games aren't using that much ram, but they will no doubt do so in the future.

 

[Astrogiblet]

“Its become obvious that people will try and come up with anything to justify spending stupid amounts of money on something thats completely useless.!”
How can something that gives 10 to 20fps extra and new effects be classed as useless? Turn off the new effects and the boost is even more. I can agree its limited due to the small list of game support but it’s far from useless.



“Spend the money on something like more RAM, or a better graphics card.”
What happens if your addicted to a PPU game and already have a high end graphics card and lots of ram? Then a PPU might be worth it for the performance boost and extra effects. As I said before I see the PPU as a luxury item when you don’t need anything else and play a PPU game.

1) A ppu provides around 2-3fps extra in a game, not 10 to 20.

2) Anybody with a high end system wouldnt need a PPU at this time because there is no game that has enough items in it that are physics enabled that it would kill your high end system.

 

[SuperGee]

Well that would be interresting for a performance scaling bench review.

Using CF:CT with Cloth's and fluid enabled on
Different CPU and also GPU.
Also Graw, JTF, BOS for compleetness.
And then look what Physics brings for extra
And what the Performance is.

Like 3 mem setups 512 1GB 2GB system.
4 CPU's:
A mainstream single core
2 different Dualcore a medium and a fast one
A QC

3 to 5 different GPU x1300 to G80

All with and without PPU.

Lot off work but interresting.

Then keep in mind PPU isn't about FPS.
Games have a specific CPU/GPU mem load.
If the game is GPU dependant a PPU would shift a Physics computation load from a already idle CPU. But get a more heavier Physics load so it could hit FPS instead. Also the GPU got a heavier load. Physics makes it often a bit more heavier. So -5% FPS is also possible.

In case off a standard game already bogged down by CPU Physics. a PPU unload it with a bit more Physics load it can handle and the GAme is more CPU depandandt you could get 10% FPS

So it depends on The non PPU Game load and its effects to the whole system. Taking also into account the different Physics enable load to the whole system with PPU.

That could yield a -10% to +10% FPS difference.

But the difference that count is what more Physics does a PPU add to a game to enhance it.

It's not about FPS. Its nice to get a few more but it must not diliver much in.
That why a PPU needs a decent Game rig as a basis.

 

[Pottsey]

“1) A ppu provides around 2-3fps extra in a game, not 10 to 20.”
Welll it depends on the game but http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/physx performance update city _090506100924/12955.png looks like a lot more then just 2-3 FPS to me.
When I benchmarked Bet on Solider I gained about 10fps might even get more if I turn the new effects off.

Even GRAW gains FPS but it also loser’s FPS in other areas.

 

[Dan_D]

“1) A ppu provides around 2-3fps extra in a game, not 10 to 20.”
Welll it depends on the game but http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/physx performance update city _090506100924/12955.png looks like a lot more then just 2-3 FPS to me.
When I benchmarked Bet on Solider I gained about 10fps might even get more if I turn the new effects off.

Even GRAW gains FPS but it also loser’s FPS in other areas.

If you turn off the new effects than you are missing the point of having the PPU. Additionally, SLI 8800GTX machines don't need frame rates, they need the PPU to contibute in a more useful fashion.

 

[Caffeinated]

“Basically, as of this very moment, there is NOT any difference between running those games on a high end PC with badass graphics hardware, and the same machine with the PhysX card.”
No there is a massive difference anyone saying there isn’t is just fooling your self. You never see the liquid effects in none PPU games. So far no high end PC with a badass graphics card has liquids like the PPU games. In fact I don’t even recall seeing any games with every buildings is fully destructible with each buildings part being a 3dobject you can hit and move. http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111111111111yw5.jpg each one of those objects can be hit by the car and sent flying.

In none PPU games you don’t get that much debris and it’s not interactive. But it’s the liquids that make the big difference. No graphic card does those yet in games.

Well, you could get a PPU. As you can see the placebo effects that it produces are astonishing.

 

[CubicleGeek]

I don't care if PPU's live or die. Just change the name. I LOATHE saying "PPU". UGH. lol. My only qualm with "PPU's".

I could really care less if they came out with a new peripheral called the F.A.G., as long as it promises me earth shattering performance and unrivaled eye candy I'll proudly tell everyone I have one in my computer.

Unfortunately, the F.A.G., like support for the PPU, doesn't exist today.

 

[QuimZ]

I would say your money is better spent on something else. PPU ftl.

 

[Dan_D]

Well, you could get a PPU. As you can see the placebo effects that it produces are astonishing.

I noticed this as well.

The PhysX processor is a great idea. The problem is it isn't being taken advantage of today, and right now there isn't a single game out there that can justify the purchase of a PhysX card today.

Yes some of what it is doing now is neat, but it doesn't add enough to the games to justify the price. Some disagree obviously, but if I were you I'd throw my money into other areas of the system to increase performance first.