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Should i buy a PPU?
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Manny Calavera
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If you like wasting money on questionable tech,then hell yeah !!! You'd be better off spending it on a 2 gb kit of ram,that will actually make a real difference...
Pkirk618
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qft on the ram. you gots to consider more ram before going in this extreme direction. There will be a time and place for the PPU, it's just not right now.Manny Calavera said:
edit: btw, you do know that your sig is not in bold right? It's not a service that works here. Just letting ya know
MrWizard6600
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Manny Calavera said:
jus...jus.... you. first. fucking. post. makes this a god damn flame war.
Arcygenical
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MrWizard6600 said:
jus...jus.... you. first. fucking. post. makes this a god damn flame war.
Yeah but it's true right now.
sabregen
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no appz for PPU as of yet...I'm not buying a damn thing until we get something that benefits it. The first person to say GRAW is gonna get a pimp slap! I'm holding out for physics on GPU's, personally. I tihnk AGEIA is going to have a tough time, once we get apps and drivers to do physics on GPU. A lot of people have older video cards that could be used in this way. I see myself going that route as opposed to getting a whole new card that runs slower for $200. It's a no-brainer.
Vapor03 said:
No. You need ram. What the hell are you doing running a Core 2 Duo overclocked like that and an 8800GTX with only 1GB of ram?
Until something comes out that takes advantage of the Agiea PhysX processor, it is little more than a worthless waste of a PCI slot.
Depends on what you're going to use it for. I mean if you use as a book end or something like that it might be worth it. But if you're planning on putting it in your PC you'd be better off putting a rock in there or something. Or as others suggested some ram would actually be something that would be beneficial.
bildad said:
Don't get me wrong. The PhysX processor is impressive. I would really like to see some of the new physics processing solutions actually being used to their full potential in games. Unfortunately, that seems to be in the distant future, and by then newer cards, or newer soltions will likely be the adopted choice. No doubt Agiea will have to release an updated next generation PhysX processor to match or beat these other possible solutions if they are to survive.
Basically, they have to prove that the current PhysX card can actually do PhysX better than the G80 or R600. If they don't, I fear ATI and NVIDIA will cripple Agiea's sales and ultimately kill the company.
Team Obi Juan
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I don't care if PPU's live or die. Just change the name. I LOATHE saying "PPU". UGH. lol. My only qualm with "PPU's".
Manny Calavera
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LOL @ this thread,OP get a 2 gig kit and you will see some real benefit for your money
skeeder
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your rig is pretty nice...if you got the cash and can't think of anything else...why not?
jdogg707
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Get some RAM or invest in a better sound card if you like to rock out music wise. The physics cards are a cool concept but have had pretty piss poor implementation thus far.
Astrogiblet
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Look for the thread with the guy who posted BETTER FPS in games without the card in then with the card in. And on the games he posted better with a PPU on, it was only 1-2 FPS. Worse then a dedicated sound card will get you.
And on the games he posted better with a PPU on, it was only 1-2 FPS. Worse then a dedicated sound card will get you.
Youre missing the point. Thats better FPS with better effects on screen. Its not the FPS alone that matter its the new effects. Some of he games have nice effects like liquid chemical grenades
appz for PPU as of yet...I'm not buying a damn thing until we get something that benefits it. The first person to say GRAW is gonna get a pimp slap! I'm holding out for physics on GPU's,
There are about 8 full games out and a bunch of demos and free games and they all use the PPU much better then GRAW. Some of them have very nice effects.
Youre missing the point. Thats better FPS with better effects on screen. Its not the FPS alone that matter its the new effects. Some of he games have nice effects like liquid chemical grenades
appz for PPU as of yet...I'm not buying a damn thing until we get something that benefits it. The first person to say GRAW is gonna get a pimp slap! I'm holding out for physics on GPU's,
There are about 8 full games out and a bunch of demos and free games and they all use the PPU much better then GRAW. Some of them have very nice effects.
Astrogiblet
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Pottsey said:
ScYcS said:Let's all guess who in this thread wasted $300 on a PPU already...
^^^
There is no reason to buy a PPU at this time. Thats a fact. Especially considering, by all means, it looks like AGEIA is going to be the PPU company to fail, considering Nvidia is trying to integrate PPU functions into their video cards, and making dedicated slots for it. Its stupid to even consider buying one right now.
There is no reason to buy a PPU at this time. Thats a fact.
Thats not a fact. The PPU gives more FPS and nice new effects you cannot get in none PPU game. Thats 2 reasons to buy one.
Sure its got limited use but if you have a PPU game you play a lot theres a good reason to get a PPU.
Especially considering, by all means, it looks like AGEIA is going to be the PPU company to fail, considering Nvidia is trying to integrate PPU functions into their video cards
The thing is there are games out now for Ageia that I play and there are no physics games supporting Nvidia on my pre order list. In fact most of the big name companys I buy games off support Ageia like games based on the Unreal 3 engine and Bioware. I dont see Ageia failing not with the amount of developer support they have and each new game that comes out is making better use of the PPU some of the newer games really look nice.
A PPU isnt $300 either its more like $200 with a $100 worth of game with it.
Thats not a fact. The PPU gives more FPS and nice new effects you cannot get in none PPU game. Thats 2 reasons to buy one.
Sure its got limited use but if you have a PPU game you play a lot theres a good reason to get a PPU.
Especially considering, by all means, it looks like AGEIA is going to be the PPU company to fail, considering Nvidia is trying to integrate PPU functions into their video cards
The thing is there are games out now for Ageia that I play and there are no physics games supporting Nvidia on my pre order list. In fact most of the big name companys I buy games off support Ageia like games based on the Unreal 3 engine and Bioware. I dont see Ageia failing not with the amount of developer support they have and each new game that comes out is making better use of the PPU some of the newer games really look nice.
A PPU isnt $300 either its more like $200 with a $100 worth of game with it.
Pottsey said:
I think you are missing the point, as are the defenders of the PhysX card. The hardware is impressive and innovative. There is a chance that the PhysX cards will bring a lot to the gaming industry and community at some point. Unfortunately, that time is not today, or yesterday. It doesn't seem to be happening tomorrow or next week either.
They aren't scratching the surface of what the PhysX processor can do at this time. Basically, as of this very moment, there is NOT any difference between running those games on a high end PC with badass graphics hardware, and the same machine with the PhysX card. We don't need or even want the PhysX card for frame rate increases, we want it to offer new dimensions in gameplay physics that have never been seen before due to technical constraints. Until the software companies and Ageia can do that, I consider a PhysX card a waste of money, power and a PCI slot.
Basically, as of this very moment, there is NOT any difference between running those games on a high end PC with badass graphics hardware, and the same machine with the PhysX card.
No there is a massive difference anyone saying there isnt is just fooling your self. You never see the liquid effects in none PPU games. So far no high end PC with a badass graphics card has liquids like the PPU games. In fact I dont even recall seeing any games with every buildings is fully destructible with each buildings part being a 3dobject you can hit and move. http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111111111111yw5.jpg each one of those objects can be hit by the car and sent flying.
In none PPU games you dont get that much debris and its not interactive. But its the liquids that make the big difference. No graphic card does those yet in games.
No there is a massive difference anyone saying there isnt is just fooling your self. You never see the liquid effects in none PPU games. So far no high end PC with a badass graphics card has liquids like the PPU games. In fact I dont even recall seeing any games with every buildings is fully destructible with each buildings part being a 3dobject you can hit and move. http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111111111111yw5.jpg each one of those objects can be hit by the car and sent flying.
In none PPU games you dont get that much debris and its not interactive. But its the liquids that make the big difference. No graphic card does those yet in games.
Astrogiblet
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Pottsey said:
You know theres a quote button in the lower right hand corner right?
Also, I have yet to see anything (your link didnt work) that looks better on a PPU system then it does on my system.
Astrogiblet said:
I've not seen anything either. Better liquids don't justify a $300.00 price tag. They need to add something to the gameplay physics to really make me want one. Then Ageia needs the damn thing in PCIe before I'll touch it. I won't buy anymore PCI cards if I can help it.
Astrogiblet
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I fully agree. PCI-E is the way to go for me as well. I would much rather put it in a third PCI-E slot then have it take away from the possibilty of me running an x-fi, which would actually give me real world benefits that the PPU wouldnt.
And seriously, I can't even imagine better looking whatever then what I see in the games I play. Like Just Cause, Far Cry, etc.
And seriously, I can't even imagine better looking whatever then what I see in the games I play. Like Just Cause, Far Cry, etc.
Also, I have yet to see anything (your link didnt work) that looks better on a PPU system then it does on my system .
How about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLoDxG2Uk6c Every single building is fully destructible and made up of multiply parts. Each part can be hit and sent flying as you drive though. I have never seen anything like that on a none PPU system.
http://www.ageia.com/physx/sbs.html
Can you show me some none PPU games that look as nice as that with liquids? I like the grenades my self.
I've not seen anything either. Better liquids don't justify a $300.00 price tag.[
First its $200 not $300 and 2nd its not just better liquids its also other effects and a sometimes a large performance boost.
How about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLoDxG2Uk6c Every single building is fully destructible and made up of multiply parts. Each part can be hit and sent flying as you drive though. I have never seen anything like that on a none PPU system.
http://www.ageia.com/physx/sbs.html
Can you show me some none PPU games that look as nice as that with liquids? I like the grenades my self.
I've not seen anything either. Better liquids don't justify a $300.00 price tag.[
First its $200 not $300 and 2nd its not just better liquids its also other effects and a sometimes a large performance boost.
Pottsey said:
I watched that video and I have to say that looks terrible. First off, the game doesn't look that great. Secondly, the buildings dissappear, and then particles and different shapes of the exact same materials go flying everywhere, and somewhere in the middle of that is a flash fire that goes away as quickly as the building does. That doesn't look good, it looks like crap. The buildings completely dissappear, and the rubble is all the same. There is nothing left underneath. No foundation, wrecked plumbing or electrical, or anything that tells you a building was there.
All you have is flying concrete. You may like that, but I am not impressed. It isn't the killer app that Ageia is looking for.
Pottsey said:
There is some improvement there to be sure. The grenades and the rest of the effects are cool, but they aren't $200.00 cool.
Pottsey said:
Ageia had to lower the price of the cards because no one but you thinks that these cards are worth two or three hundred dollars. We are talking about mostly second rate titles here. GRAW is the only somewhat first rate game I've seen use the PhysX card, but even then the differences aren't enough to justify the cost. I am sorry, but a game is going to have to be built from scratch that actually does something besides dumpster deformation before I'll buy one. Not to mention PCIe x1 would be an incentive to try one. I've got free PCIe slots, and no PCI available. So Ageia is going to have to do something about that. Us SLI guys have very little exansion capabilities left in our machines most of the time.
Additionally, it remains to be seen how G80's Quantum Effects Engine will stack up against the PhysX card. My guess is that NVIDIA and ATI are going to have Ageia's ass on this and Ageia will go the way of the dinosaur. More companies seem to be adopting Havok's FX engine rather than developing on Ageia's SDK. With NVIDIA and ATI, I don't lose another slot, and I don't increase power consumption.
The bottom line is:
There is no way i and many others would spend $300 or $200 or maybe even $100 for a card that does nothing but make water and explosions prettier.
If or when there are games out there that are
a) blockbuster(s)
and
b) make use of physics that alter gameplay significantly to the extent that it's more FUN to play the game(s)
And don't make a mistake here: I'm talking about a bunch of games that have these before it gets even interesting to THINK about buying such a card. One game and 3 demos (or 5 games and 8 demos...think more liek 20 RELEASED games and at least 7-10 of them with gameplay enhancing physics and not this "oooooh look the explosion is prettier") just don't cut the mustard and like some others said: Physics cards will go the way of the Dodo otherwise.
There is no way i and many others would spend $300 or $200 or maybe even $100 for a card that does nothing but make water and explosions prettier.
If or when there are games out there that are
a) blockbuster(s)
and
b) make use of physics that alter gameplay significantly to the extent that it's more FUN to play the game(s)
And don't make a mistake here: I'm talking about a bunch of games that have these before it gets even interesting to THINK about buying such a card. One game and 3 demos (or 5 games and 8 demos...think more liek 20 RELEASED games and at least 7-10 of them with gameplay enhancing physics and not this "oooooh look the explosion is prettier") just don't cut the mustard and like some others said: Physics cards will go the way of the Dodo otherwise.
First off, the game doesn't look that great. Secondly, the buildings dissappear,
Its a MMORPG which means you cannot have junk staying around and MMORPG do tend to look worse then single players games. But its not about the graphic its about the physics and those are better then most games. Other PPU games have the parts stay around but thats just not possible in a MMORPG.
All you have is flying concrete. You may like that, but I am not impressed.
Can you show me a none PPU game thats even comes close? Its not just flying concrete, its every single building and object in destructible its not just concrete but there is wood and other parts as well.If you hit the building with flame it burns down, how the building blows up is effected by your actions. Most none PPU games dont even let you blow up a every object.
There is nothing left underneath. No foundation, wrecked plumbing or electrical, or anything that tells you a building was there.
Thats normal for MMORPG online games if things stay behind the game would be unplayable. Mission spawn in a random area then vanish. Bodys and objects always vanish.
Ageia had to lower the price of the cards because no one but you thinks that these cards are worth two or three hundred dollars.
Go read the feedback on various shops. Newegg has 4 out of 5 stars with almost everyone buying the card saying its great.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143055
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121015
More companies seem to be adopting Havok's FX engine rather than developing on Ageia's SDK.
I was about to say its the other way around Unreal 3 went to Ageia and so have every game based off the Unreal 3 engine. Bioware also went to Ageia and a number of other big name companies and game engines have started moving to Ageia.
One game and 3 demos just don't cut the mustard and like some others said:
One game! You get 3 games and a bunch of demos just for buying the card.
another gb of ram will do you more good than a shady ppu
What if you already have 2 gigs? Another gig will do nothing but the PPU adds new effects.
Its a MMORPG which means you cannot have junk staying around and MMORPG do tend to look worse then single players games. But its not about the graphic its about the physics and those are better then most games. Other PPU games have the parts stay around but thats just not possible in a MMORPG.
All you have is flying concrete. You may like that, but I am not impressed.
Can you show me a none PPU game thats even comes close? Its not just flying concrete, its every single building and object in destructible its not just concrete but there is wood and other parts as well.If you hit the building with flame it burns down, how the building blows up is effected by your actions. Most none PPU games dont even let you blow up a every object.
There is nothing left underneath. No foundation, wrecked plumbing or electrical, or anything that tells you a building was there.
Thats normal for MMORPG online games if things stay behind the game would be unplayable. Mission spawn in a random area then vanish. Bodys and objects always vanish.
Ageia had to lower the price of the cards because no one but you thinks that these cards are worth two or three hundred dollars.
Go read the feedback on various shops. Newegg has 4 out of 5 stars with almost everyone buying the card saying its great.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143055
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121015
More companies seem to be adopting Havok's FX engine rather than developing on Ageia's SDK.
I was about to say its the other way around Unreal 3 went to Ageia and so have every game based off the Unreal 3 engine. Bioware also went to Ageia and a number of other big name companies and game engines have started moving to Ageia.
One game and 3 demos just don't cut the mustard and like some others said:
One game! You get 3 games and a bunch of demos just for buying the card.
another gb of ram will do you more good than a shady ppu
What if you already have 2 gigs? Another gig will do nothing but the PPU adds new effects.
There is no way i and many others would spend $300 or $200 or maybe even $100 for a card that does nothing but make water and explosions prettier.
What about a card that makes water and explosions pretty and boosts performance by a noticeable amount? http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/physx performance update city _090506100924/12955.png Still if you dont have any games that use the PPU its not worth it.
EDIT: No I am not from Denmark, I wonder why did you say that?
What about a card that makes water and explosions pretty and boosts performance by a noticeable amount? http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/physx performance update city _090506100924/12955.png Still if you dont have any games that use the PPU its not worth it.
EDIT: No I am not from Denmark, I wonder why did you say that?
Pottsey said:
That would be a "no"....i guess you still don't want to understand....
i don't see any gameplay enhancements apart from "prettier". And i don't see the 20 blockbuster games either.
And the Denmark comment was because you sound like a (now banned) user that was here sounding just like you when it came to the defense of the Physics engine.
i don't see any gameplay enhancements apart from "prettier". And i don't see the 20 blockbuster games either.
I bet the 20 blockbuster games are Ageia API games IE stuff like Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas & Gears Of War e.c.t There must be over 100 games that use Ageia physics API out now and it wouldnt surprise me if many where classed as blockbuster by Ageia. Where was the 20 blockbuster comments from? Was it PC platform only? As a guess I would say all platforms.
What counts as a block buster game? How many sales does it have to have?
I dont have time to dig out gameplay enhancements videos perhaps later one. I have to go out in a min.
EDIT: Look up Infernal its not out yet but it appears to have the PPU gameplay enhancements you want to see. Will see what I can find when I can home later.
I bet the 20 blockbuster games are Ageia API games IE stuff like Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas & Gears Of War e.c.t There must be over 100 games that use Ageia physics API out now and it wouldnt surprise me if many where classed as blockbuster by Ageia. Where was the 20 blockbuster comments from? Was it PC platform only? As a guess I would say all platforms.
What counts as a block buster game? How many sales does it have to have?
I dont have time to dig out gameplay enhancements videos perhaps later one. I have to go out in a min.
EDIT: Look up Infernal its not out yet but it appears to have the PPU gameplay enhancements you want to see. Will see what I can find when I can home later.
Gears of War uses the Ageia PhysX API, and NOT the hardware. The SDK works on machines with and without the hardware. If coded to use it, the game can use the hardware transparently, and gain some improvements as you suggest, but I don't see anything substantial coming from the use of the card over the software methods .Though there is an increasing number of titles using the Ageia SDK, the number of games using Havok is increasing as well.
You missed TWO of my points. The first is that what they are doing with the PhysX SDK isn't all that compelling at the moment. You may think so, and want to defend lame graphics all day. I don't care. There isn't enough of a difference yet to make the purchase of the PhysX card worthwhile right now in my opinion and in the opnions of others too. The sales figures prove that. Most of us want to wait and see what G80 and R600 have to offer for physics processing as well as what Multi-Core Physics processing is like in Alan Wake before we start buying PhysX cards.
Frankly, the idea of physics on your existing DX 10 graphics cards and using more CPU cores is FAR more compelling right now. You don't need to give up anything for these other solutions. PhysX cards eat up valuable real estate. Also using a surplus graphics card that we might have laying around is also potentially appealing, though the loss of yet another expansion slot isn't an appealing prospect to me at least.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_physics_engines
There you go. A list of games using Havok and a list of the games using everything else, plus some unreleased titiles on there as well.
Defend the PhysX cards all you want to. You found it worthwhile that's great. I am not knocking that, but in response to the original posters question, the answer is no. I do not believe now is the time to buy an Ageia PhysX processor for several reasons as I have stated above.
You missed TWO of my points. The first is that what they are doing with the PhysX SDK isn't all that compelling at the moment. You may think so, and want to defend lame graphics all day. I don't care. There isn't enough of a difference yet to make the purchase of the PhysX card worthwhile right now in my opinion and in the opnions of others too. The sales figures prove that. Most of us want to wait and see what G80 and R600 have to offer for physics processing as well as what Multi-Core Physics processing is like in Alan Wake before we start buying PhysX cards.
Frankly, the idea of physics on your existing DX 10 graphics cards and using more CPU cores is FAR more compelling right now. You don't need to give up anything for these other solutions. PhysX cards eat up valuable real estate. Also using a surplus graphics card that we might have laying around is also potentially appealing, though the loss of yet another expansion slot isn't an appealing prospect to me at least.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_physics_engines
There you go. A list of games using Havok and a list of the games using everything else, plus some unreleased titiles on there as well.
Defend the PhysX cards all you want to. You found it worthwhile that's great. I am not knocking that, but in response to the original posters question, the answer is no. I do not believe now is the time to buy an Ageia PhysX processor for several reasons as I have stated above.