SHOCKER - Autopilot Buddy Deemed Unsafe

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
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A little device that tricks Tesla's Autopilot into thinking you are actually paying attention to the car you are driving has been deemed unsafe by the Feds. The people that do this crap should be drawn and quartered. If you don't want to drive, fine. Take an Uber.

Check out the video.

“A product intended to circumvent motor vehicle safety and driver attentiveness is unacceptable,” said NHTSA Deputy Administrator Heidi King. “By preventing the safety system from warning the driver to return their hands to the wheel, this product disables an important safeguard, and could put customers and other road users at risk.”

SHOULD YOU FEEL THIS THREAD IS THE PLACE TO HAVE AND ARGUMENT ABOUT THE WORD "AUTOPILOT," YOU WILL LOSE YOUR ACCESS TO POST IN THE FPN FORUM.
 
using something to subvert needed safety items is usually.. a self correcting situation LOL


One thing i do like how the whole tesla "autopilot" feature is how its proving, with actual evidence, that 100% self driving cars are simply NOT ready for mass roll out. Someday I think they will be, and hope, but not within a few years at least.

but hopefully they will keep working at it !!
 
katanaD said:
using something to subvert needed safety items is usually.. a self correcting situation LOL


One thing i do like how the whole tesla "autopilot" feature is how its proving, with actual evidence, that 100% self driving cars are simply NOT ready for mass roll out. Someday I think they will be, and hope, but not within a few years at least.

but hopefully they will keep working at it !!
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I don't mind a little chlorine in the gene pool, but someone that uses this device endangers others almost as much as themselves. That I am not cool with.
 
It is surprising that someone willing to spend $200 on a lead bracelet with a magnetic clasp would also be willing to endanger not only their life but also the life of others. Honestly shocking.
 
Eh, it has a place.. No one wants to be stuck holding a wheel for long highway trips. Deeming it unsafe is just covering your behind. It still has it's place probably.
 
katanaD said:
using something to subvert needed safety items is usually.. a self correcting situation LOL


One thing i do like how the whole tesla "autopilot" feature is how its proving, with actual evidence, that 100% self driving cars are simply NOT ready for mass roll out. Someday I think they will be, and hope, but not within a few years at least.

but hopefully they will keep working at it !!
Click to expand...
How many non self-driving cars crash every day though?
 
Some entertainment value in the "For track use only...." notice on the Autopilot Buddy website. Like why would someone want 'Autosteer' on a track anyway?
 
Wonder what they'll say if we have one of these instead?
CarelessVengefulDormouse-size_restricted.gif
 
Hate the way your seatbelt dings when you don't wear it? Just buckle it behind you!

This, and other great advice, can be yours for just $19.99/month! PM me if you are interested!
 
I actually am fortunate enough to own a model S, and yes, I did pay for "autopilot". I'm also a Class A CDL holder who has driven a lot of different vehicles and I'll just weigh in here and say, I don't like it, and use it sparingly. My biggest beef with it is that while you can turn the wheel to disengage the automatic steering, that does not disengage the automatic acceleration, the 2 are separate.

Now if you've ever driven a tesla (or maybe any electric for that matter), you know that you can almost drive them with just one pedal, the accelerator, thanks to the heavy regenerative braking. The car will almost come to a complete stop by just letting off the gas, and having the regen do its thing, its like having one hell of an engine retarder (jacobs brake). What this means, is you get in the habit of not covering the brake with your foot, as you know you can just slow down by letting off the gas, as the brake pedal is normally not needed.

Now with autopilot on, that doesn't work, and you must cover the brake with your foot. The reason is, while with your hands on the wheel, you can react and disengage the autosteering quickly to swerve, it will still happily hold the accelerator down for you while you plow into whatever, unless your quick enough to hit the break pedal with your foot, which if your relaxing while it drives for you, your probably not ready to do so.


Anyway, here's my 2 cents. I think they should update the software to where a disengagement of the autosteering by grabbing the steering wheel also disengages the auto acceleration (just have it kill the whole automatic system) and have the car start slowing down thru regenerative braking. Have it so you can still just turn on or off one feature at a time thru the control lever stalk that you use to turn them on.
 
Meh, I don't even care for cruise control ( though I will use it ).. I prefer much older vehicles with no driver assist and even without power brakes and steering.. But then again, I also just traded a 1950 Plymouth which was on the very end of that spectrum for a 1974 MGB..
 
SCSI-Terminator said:
Now with autopilot on, that doesn't work, and you must cover the brake with your foot. The reason is, while with your hands on the wheel, you can react and disengage the autosteering quickly to swerve, it will still happily hold the accelerator down for you while you plow into whatever, unless your quick enough to hit the break pedal with your foot, which if your relaxing while it drives for you, your probably not ready to do so.
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This is how normal cruise control on most cars works. I drive with cruise all the time and it would kind of be a pain to have to re-engage cruise when you change lanes to go around slower traffic.
 
katanaD said:
using something to subvert needed safety items is usually.. a self correcting situation LOL


One thing i do like how the whole tesla "autopilot" feature is how its proving, with actual evidence, that 100% self driving cars are simply NOT ready for mass roll out. Someday I think they will be, and hope, but not within a few years at least.

but hopefully they will keep working at it !!
Click to expand...


Wait, you are actually claiming that a system that is not an autonomous driving system is proving that autonomous driving systems are not ready, yet fully autonomous trucks are delivering trucks on the national highways every fucking day without incident since November of 2017?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...shuttling-goods-arizona-no-drivers/397123002/

Uber has been sending self-driving trucks on delivery runs across Arizona since November
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And they don't even have a safety driver on board.
During the autonomous trip, an Uber employee rides in the driver seat of the autonomous truck to monitor — but not to drive.
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This employee is only in the vehicle to monitor it's operation and should the vehicle break down, he is supposed to see to it that the vehicle is moved out of the roadway, that's it.

And yes, I know that an Uber self driving car killed a women in Phoenix and that Uber halted testing of cars and trucks while they investigate what happened.
 
Dead Parrot said:
Some entertainment value in the "For track use only...." notice on the Autopilot Buddy website. Like why would someone want 'Autosteer' on a track anyway?
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Just like the commercials with people driving a vehicle and the typical fine print disclaimers of it being a stunt/professional driver, closed course, don't do this at home, etc. :p
 
Woody1150 said:
This is how normal cruise control on most cars works. I drive with cruise all the time and it would kind of be a pain to have to re-engage cruise when you change lanes to go around slower traffic.
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Yes your right. But like I said, with the regenerative braking manually driving a tesla is not like driving a normal ICE vehicle with an automatic transmission. Hence it promotes a different driving style of ignoring the hydraulic service brakes the majority of the time. (don't believe me? go test drive one. Closest thing I can match it to is like driving a golf cart, but with a lot of power)

You do know the tesla can change lanes on command by using the turn signals without disengaging the autopilot don't you?
 
What I cannot understand is how computer gamer's or IT professionals, who should acquainted with the many flaws of "any" software program, will believe that self-driving software will not be buggy and therefore untrustworthy? Why would anyone trust their life to a system that cannot even be considered to be at the beta level? I regard self-driving car advocates as gullible noobs and technically unsophisticated.

Self-driving cars are decades away...
 
SomeoneElse said:
Wow what lengths people will go to just to be lazy......and/or make a quick buck. Geez. Glad its outlawed.
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Dont worry. The class 1 railroads are already aiming for autopilot. Its actually partially working but only on clear signals, anything else and control is taken back by the engineer. (Only in some locations does this actually work). We in the position of actually running/working with trains don't want this.

Their next step is 1 man crews. Thats what the company wants anyway. Hopefully the states (or govt) blocks it.
 
$200?! How long til someone uploads a 3d printable version of it.

Seriously though, I wonder if Tesla could remotely remove autopilot for those people caught abusing it.
 
SCSI-Terminator said:
Yes your right. But like I said, with the regenerative braking manually driving a tesla is not like driving a normal ICE vehicle with an automatic transmission. Hence it promotes a different driving style of ignoring the hydraulic service brakes the majority of the time. (don't believe me? go test drive one. Closest thing I can match it to is like driving a golf cart, but with a lot of power)
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Not saying I don't believe you and I understand the concept of the regenerative braking. I made my statement thinking if they implemented such a feature, that the Feds may require other car makers to do the same thing with regular cruise.

You do know the tesla can change lanes on command by using the turn signals without disengaging the autopilot don't you?
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Nope, I did not. Can you use the wheel to change lanes without a turn signal or will "autopilot" fight back? Does a tesla have the ability to have normal "cruise" where it doesn't steer itself?
 
People never cease to amaze me with stupidity.

I personally don't understand what else is more important than your life (it's 2018 so screw everyone else, it's all about me) when you're ripping down the road at 70+mph in 2-tons of steel, but I guess I'm old and need to die already so the future can get here. :oldman: :D
 
Please bring this to all cars !
I drive to work at night around 45 min highway one way.
I am so ready.
:eek: was that a deer?
:confused: darn slow people in fast lane when all lanes open?
:stinkyfeet: Ok maybe there are some risks
 
Woody1150 said:
$200 for a magnetic paper weight?! Wow.
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I drive an S100D and while the nagging can get annoying we have it because people are idiots who can't RTFM. Which is why we can't have nice things. This device is meant to separate those same idiots form their money.
 
Woody1150 said:
Can you use the wheel to change lanes without a turn signal or will "autopilot" fight back? Does a tesla have the ability to have normal "cruise" where it doesn't steer itself?
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You cannot use just the wheel to change lanes, it fights back with weak force very briefly before it gives up and completely disengages auto-steering. The only way to get it to change lanes is to use the turn signal with the autopilot system engaged. When initiated, tt will look in the direction briefly with it's sensors and then if it thinks its clear, drift over to the neighboring lane, and even speed up slightly to overtake a car if it thinks its neccessary. I'm sure there's a YouTube video somewhere of someone demonstrating it:




Also, it currently seems to only allow lane changes on major roads, it shows this by showing extra lane lines on the instrument cluster display for potential lanes it thinks it can change into. I'm not sure how it determines this, it might be geo-locked to only certain approved and pre-screened locations, similar to how GM's "Super Cruse" is locked to only certain roads.
 
I wonder if some silly putty on the wheel would have the same result, for $1.99? Go and try and get back to me, Tesla owners. I'll be over here, driving my normal car.. with you know... my hands.
 
Sounds like a product made by a bad maintenance personnel who tape together safety gate sensors to get the machine running then never come back to fix it properly.
 
I do not see what the big deal is at all.

If you are willing to endanger the public via not actually driving for 5 seconds its really no different than not driving for 5 min or 50 min. Not driving for any length of time is simply not driving. The odds of killing someone are the same per second. The only difference is your increasing the seconds. Its still a bit of technology that I find very irresponsible.
 
thejokker said:
What I cannot understand is how computer gamer's or IT professionals, who should acquainted with the many flaws of "any" software program, will believe that self-driving software will not be buggy and therefore untrustworthy? Why would anyone trust their life to a system that cannot even be considered to be at the beta level? I regard self-driving car advocates as gullible noobs and technically unsophisticated.

Self-driving cars are decades away...
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There are "bugs" in our own cognition that make us untrustworthy. Those are a lot harder to fix than software, and far more variable in which flaws will manifest and how.
 
Tawnos said:
There are "bugs" in our own cognition that make us untrustworthy. Those are a lot harder to fix than software, and far more variable in which flaws will manifest and how.
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Not really. Humans are easy to predict, no matter how stupid they are.

Software, on the other hand, is wildly unpredictable. It is that way as we expect software to act a certain way and when it idoes not, we freeze, cuss it out, scratch our heads, reboot our computers, unplug devices, and so on. When software does not act the way we expect it to, it is far more debilitating than watching a human do something stupid. We expect stupid behavior from humans.

Oh look, he/she is crossing 4 lanes of traffice to get to the exit.
Oh look, he/she is tailgating me without concern that my car can stop 30% faster then what they are driving.
Oh look, he/she is on the cell phone drifting all over the place.

None of those things, plus many more, surprise us, unless you are the stupid one not watching what is going on.

Now if sofware drives you into a concrete wall because the mural painted on it fooled it, then that would be surprising.
Or if it takes you cross country because of the snow on the ground making it appear as one large stripe and it is trying to find the edge, that might be surprising.
And so on.....

For all our ills, humans are still better at real time wide scale pattern recognition than computers are. Even stupid humans.
 
Tawnos said:
There are "bugs" in our own cognition that make us untrustworthy. Those are a lot harder to fix than software, and far more variable in which flaws will manifest and how.
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So you are implying that software, created by buggy humans, will somehow be more reliable? Consider also that self-driving cars will depend upon hardware. That hardware will break or become degraded by dirt, debris, etc. Those promising self-driving cars are greatly over-simplifying the challenge. At this point in time we flawed human beings are far superior to any self-driving car. I suggest humans will remain superior for quite a long time...
 
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