Shady tactics of the Genius?

jslater25

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
474
A few days ago, my wife's iPhone started to get intermittent reception and service. We could place my iPhone (same model) next to hers and I would have full 5 bar signal (3G) while hers would show 'Searching'. So we swapped out the sim card at AT&T for a new one hoping that would resolve the issue. It didn't.

So than yesterday I had an appointment with an Apple store Genius. What a complete eye opener. While visiting with the Genius that was helping me, another Genius was commenting to a third about ways to NOT help customers. By asking lots of open ended questions, the customer would often say something that might void the warranty. For example, has the phone EVER been dropped? If you say yes, even it its been a year since it dropped and is obviously not the cause for the visit, they will state it voids your warranty.

Another example is to simply plug the device (iPhone, iPod, whatever) into their diagnostics and run more programs than are necessary in hopes to find something that isn't under warranty. Than focus on that one issue even if its not the reason the customer was visiting.

A third example: Don't mention ALL the options for replacement service. What I mean is this. A customer came in with a broken screen on his iPhone. He stated he dropped it, which obviously isn't covered in the warranty. The Genius told him for $199 they would replace the glass only, and he would keep his original device. The customer apparently knew the situation well enough that the CUSTOMER had to then request a completely NEW phone for $199 rather than simply replacing the broken glass.

When asked why the Genius would recommend just replacing the glass on a dropped device rather than swapping out for a new one (for the same price!), the Genius said some customers prefer to keep their original so they don't have to replace their data.
Taking your new iPhone home and connecting to iTunes solves this problem!

The shady tactics of the Genius bar makes me very wary towards buying a laptop from the store.

Obviously many companies use tactics like this, but most don't have the reputation that Mac has of being friendly to its own kind.

Anyone else have similar experiences at the Genius bar?
 
It's how it is with corporate customer service. They are there primarily to save the company money.

What's more costly to a company? Selling a new phone for $199, or selling a "service" to replace a piece of glass for $199. (Hint: one is profitable, while one is a loss)
 
It was simply eye opening to be sitting in front of a Genius who was more than happy to divulge shady tactics of how to screw the customer. Especially considering Apple's 'customer friendly' reputation.
 
There have been great reports and horrible reports of Genius support. Honestly, I think it comes down to the individual store and the management involved, just like any other chain store. Some are great, especially the larger shops, and some don't really care.

What sounds strange to me is that you would overhear this conversation at all. Not even Geek Squad employees will stand in the middle of a Best Buy and talk about how they systematically rip people off.
 
It was simply eye opening to be sitting in front of a Genius who was more than happy to divulge shady tactics of how to screw the customer. Especially considering Apple's 'customer friendly' reputation.

Screw the customer how?

It's be screwing the customer if they hadn't offered *any* kind of repair/replacement.
It's up to the customer to ask if there's anything else that can be done.

And as for dropping things then bringing them in... the CSR's have NO idea how long ago a drop happened, or whether or not it could have led to the problem the person came in for.
Do you expect them to just take people at their word? We all know how well that goes in situations like this. There will be one honest customer, and 100 dishonest customers taking advantage.

Honestly, if you had any kind of accidental damage with another company, i'm pretty sure it'd be the same story or worse (like HP) they say "sorry, buy a new one at MSRP"
 
i agree there a shady business practices and then there are customers who take advantage of store policy also. i just dont buy extra warrantys. frys is really bad also on there warranty work but they are more to screw the customer i think. i knew a guy who worked in there tech department and some of the stuff he told me was eye opening.
 
I actually had a great experience at the genius bar with my new iphone. I dropped it and had the glass shatter. They replaced the glass free of charge -- saying that their invoicing system was down. They could have sent me home and told me to come back another day, but instead replaced the glass for free.

Now, if I had to pay for the glass, I would be pissed to learn that I could just get another phone....is that right? I didn't realize that the AT&T subsidy extended to replacements.
 
Do I like it? no. Do I agree with it? no.
Is it better than talking to a dell rep in India? yes
Is it better than dealing with anyone at best buy? yes

Unfortunately they are a corporate store, so this crap happens. I would say most people are generally satisfied with how apple treats them as a customer. There are lots of stories of people getting much better treatment from apple stores than apple needed to give, and stories of treatment that is much worse.

The fanboys are overblown, but so are the apple haters. In truth, the extremes get posted on the internet, and the normal interactions are never mentioned again. I bought my laptop in store and I found the sales guy to be very informative (he knew about digital out on the headphone jack of the 13mbp the day it came out, and he answered a technical question about partitioning and reformatting with boot camp). On top of that, he gave me a $200 printer - $100 instant - $100 MIR, because they were out of the $100 printer that was "free" at the time.

Bestbuy guy was only able to tell me that I should buy a mac because it can't get viruses and I have to pay more to maintain a pc. Needless to say, apple store won.
 
We purchased a new Macbook for my mother back in mid-June.

About 2 weeks later, the touchpad went all snakey and you could click on most of it (only the lower right corner seemed to work). We took it into the Apple Store, where it was purchased, and were given the choice to wait several days for a replacement touchpad or to have the unit replaced. With data backup, this would entail less than 24 hours.

So my mother opts for the switch out and I get asking what they will do. Will they "clone" the drive and such. Nope, I get told, we just take a data backup and then restore that. They flatout refused to time machine/clone the drive which meant a full reinstall of a Boot Camp partition plus numerous software reinstalls.

I'm still unamused.
 
Now, if I had to pay for the glass, I would be pissed to learn that I could just get another phone....is that right? I didn't realize that the AT&T subsidy extended to replacements.

+1 the subsidy shouldn't apply to replacements. My friend lost his phone and had to pay the full $600 to replace it.
 
We purchased a new Macbook for my mother back in mid-June.

About 2 weeks later, the touchpad went all snakey and you could click on most of it (only the lower right corner seemed to work). We took it into the Apple Store, where it was purchased, and were given the choice to wait several days for a replacement touchpad or to have the unit replaced. With data backup, this would entail less than 24 hours.

So my mother opts for the switch out and I get asking what they will do. Will they "clone" the drive and such. Nope, I get told, we just take a data backup and then restore that. They flatout refused to time machine/clone the drive which meant a full reinstall of a Boot Camp partition plus numerous software reinstalls.

I'm still unamused.

Wait, what? You expected them to back up your data and copy it to the new computer? Wouldn't it be YOUR responsibility to back up YOUR data? I'm sure there are places out there that will preform this service for you. They'll also charge for it.
 
We purchased a new Macbook for my mother back in mid-June.

About 2 weeks later, the touchpad went all snakey and you could click on most of it (only the lower right corner seemed to work). We took it into the Apple Store, where it was purchased, and were given the choice to wait several days for a replacement touchpad or to have the unit replaced. With data backup, this would entail less than 24 hours.

So my mother opts for the switch out and I get asking what they will do. Will they "clone" the drive and such. Nope, I get told, we just take a data backup and then restore that. They flatout refused to time machine/clone the drive which meant a full reinstall of a Boot Camp partition plus numerous software reinstalls.

I'm still unamused.

When the Apple store botched the repair of my Macbook they offered me a replacement unit. Unfortunately I had already copied all of my data back to the hard drive. I made them swap the hard drive from my old laptop to the new one. This was no problem and done in about 15 seconds while I stood a the Genius bar and watched.

With regard to the original post. I doubt this was "money saving" technique. This poor guy had probably seen 20+ people already that day. He was simply presenting the option that was quick and painless for him. He doesn't have to transfer any data etc. Put in a box, ship it out, done. Is it right? Maybe not, though anyone who works in customer service can understand.

Sorry to say, but the experience you get at any customer service counter is going to depend on a number of key things:

1. The person's mood at that moment. If the rest of the day was a train wreck, don't expect to get any above and beyond actions.

2. Your attitude. If you're a dick, forget it, you're going to the bare minimum treatment.

Just my two cents...
 
Sorry to say, but the experience you get at any customer service counter is going to depend on a number of key things:

1. The person's mood at that moment. If the rest of the day was a train wreck, don't expect to get any above and beyond actions.

2. Your attitude. If you're a dick, forget it, you're going to the bare minimum treatment.

Just my two cents...

Or the person that makes the decision is behind closed doors.
 
2. Your attitude. If you're a dick, forget it, you're going to the bare minimum treatment.
Just my two cents...

I would agree with point number 2, except that the Genius I was listening to was explaining how to screw the customer over W/O any customer being a dick already. It was more a 'hey, do this from now on in order to make it more difficult for the customer to obtain what would normally be covered under warranty' attitude.

I have no problem with CSR's being difficult to customer's who are rude. But making the customer have to work to get what should have been offered initially is not okay in my book.
 
Wait, what? You expected them to back up your data and copy it to the new computer? Wouldn't it be YOUR responsibility to back up YOUR data? I'm sure there are places out there that will preform this service for you. They'll also charge for it.

They offered to back up his data. What he wanted was a total clone image of the disk, not just a data backup and restore.
 
It's just like dealing with the cops I feel like. Don't divulge them too much information, keep your story straight and keep a good attitude. Then hope for the best.
 
They offered to back up his data. What he wanted was a total clone image of the disk, not just a data backup and restore.

It's both funny and stupid how people get upset about this and drops. Apple doesn't hide what is covered by Applecare. People drop their very expensive device, likely without even a rubber cover on it, and then walk into a store and expect the warranty to cover things that the warranty explicitly doesn't cover.

I'm sure that some people have bad experiences. That said, you immediately get an email asking for feedback once your device is serviced. You can give feedback that way or call. Also, you're in an Apple store. You had a bad experience. Instead of talking to the manager, you come on [H] and whine about it? Why?

I've had great experiences with the Genius. Also, I should note in terms of Applecare being a warrany, it is more. Can't figure out how to use something in iLife/Aperture/etc, call them and ask. You can also bring your system in once a year I think it is for a tuneup.

In terms of not imaging the drive, come on. No other laptop vendor does anything like this. In the case where you're so worried about re-installing these application, you should have an image of the drive already. Don't whine about you lack of preparedness. Step up and take ownership of your own issues.
 
Regarding the original post, that's unbelievably bad. If I had ever heard something like that discussed openly in the store, you can bet your sweet bippy I wouldn't have as many Apple products as I do. That's not to say they in general don't practice such things - stores for any company are under intense stop-loss pressure. However what you observed was just plain stupid on their part.

I did run into an issue where I think that mentality was in play, with my mom's iMac. The AirPort card was bunk, and I demonstrated its malfunction at the Genius Bar. Three days later they called and said they couldn't reproduce the problem. I told them I demonstrated the problem at the Bar; they actually had the balls to throw their coworker under the bus and say that person didn't know what they were doing. I was pissed. I basically said look, I'm a network engineer by trade, this card - even if it's working on your bench - has a faulty radio, and can you please just replace the card? They asked their manager, and they did it - grudgingly. And the new AirPort card has been working fine ever since.

But I've never gone back to that store for service, not when there are three other Apple stores near me I can go to instead (thank goodness, with all the iPhone issues I've had - see other thread). I guess that's really my point. If you are or have reason to believe you're being or have been jerked around by the support staff at a store, go to another store (if feasible). In my case, another Apple store besides the one I had problems with treats me like I was on the board of directors or something, and they get my money and glowing survey replies. You can guess what the survey looked like for the store that tried to jerk me around... It's like car dealers. Most are total douchebag aggregators, but some aren't - and the ones that aren't are the ones who get to sell me my next car.
 
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That said, you immediately get an email asking for feedback once your device is serviced. You can give feedback that way or call. Also, you're in an Apple store. You had a bad experience. Instead of talking to the manager, you come on [H] and whine about it? Why?

I'm not certain if these questions are directed towards me (OP) or towards another post in this thread, therefore I will respond as if you are asking me.

I chose not to speak with a manager for several reasons. First, knowing that customer service is more façade than anything, I did not see any reason to confront a manager with the conversation I overheard. It would have been difficult to prove regardless. And typically, when employees are pointing out to others how to take advantage of the customer, the manager is in on it as well.

Second, I had better tasks to complete with my time that day. As stated in my original post, it was several days afterwards that I decided to inquire with others on [H]. If my inquiry came across as whining, I do not apologize as it was your misinterpretation. I was simply curious what others had to say on the subject. The incident was an eye opener towards the Apple Geniuses for me.

As for providing Apple feedback via email, I did just that. But I hadn't received the email until after posting on [H].
 
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