Shadow of the Tomb Raider

M76 said:
Then why did I appreciate the previous games? Because they were better. Don't get me wrong I don't think that this is a bad game, just not as good as Rise of the Tomb Raider. And my opinion reflects that.
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I don't understand how you can appreciate both of the previous games but not appreciate this one...they're pretty much the same as far as gameplay...different setting, same basic gameplay...I can understand if someone didn't like the previous games then they will not like this but if you liked both of them there's nothing that makes this game that much worse

Paititi is a huge hub with tons of things to do and places to explore...if you just stuck with the main missions then of course it'll feel small because you didn't take the time to explore (underwater tombs, secret crypts, side missions etc)...immersion is not sticking to a linear path and not going 5 feet beyond the main path...immersion is letting the game world feel real and taking in all it has to offer

the rope ascender is needed to break open some of those blocked passageways and the lockpick is only used to open treasure chests scattered around the map
 
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polonyc2 said:
I don't understand how you can appreciate both of the previous games but not appreciate this one...they're pretty much the same as far as gameplay...different setting, same basic gameplay...I can understand if someone didn't like the previous games then they will not like this but if you liked both of them there's nothing that makes this game that much worse

Paititi is a huge hub with tons of things to do and places to explore...if you just stuck with the main missions then of course it'll feel small because you didn't take the time to explore (underwater tombs, secret crypts, side missions etc)...immersion is not sticking to a linear path and not going 5 feet beyond the main path...immersion is letting the game world feel real and taking in all it has to offer

the rope ascender is needed to break open some of those blocked passageways and the lockpick is only used to open treasure chests scattered around the map
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You created a narrative in your head where I go blindly only doing main story missions ignoring everything else, but that's not true at all. I Explored the underwater tombs you talk about, and did lots of side missions. If the story has a sense of urgency then it doesn't make sense to go far out of your way to go trough the entire area with a fine tooth comb. I completed Rise to about 60% completion according to the in game meter. I'm about the same ball park with this one. So there is no use trying to convince me that the game would be better if I scoured every crevasse for the last goblets.Most of that 40% is the collectibles, not the actual explorable areas.

I didn't say I didn't like it, I say it is not as good as Rise of the Tomb raider. And slightly worse even than the first one.

Basically the same gameplay yes, but the worst aspects of said gameplay are futher exaggerated. Like the impossible jumps that you can easily make. It's good, but not as good. That's all I'm saying.
 
Oh there is another thing I didn't like. Why is the game world reverted to a before endgame state after the end? It would make much more sense to show you the 'after' world, since even the end cinematic suggests that you remain there to explore. And then it would make perfect sense to do the remaining tombs and crypts after the ending.
 
M76 said:
You created a narrative in your head where I go blindly only doing main story missions ignoring everything else, but that's not true at all. I Explored the underwater tombs you talk about, and did lots of side missions. If the story has a sense of urgency then it doesn't make sense to go far out of your way to go trough the entire area with a fine tooth comb. I completed Rise to about 60% completion according to the in game meter. I'm about the same ball park with this one. So there is no use trying to convince me that the game would be better if I scoured every crevasse for the last goblets.Most of that 40% is the collectibles, not the actual explorable areas.

I didn't say I didn't like it, I say it is not as good as Rise of the Tomb raider. And slightly worse even than the first one.

Basically the same gameplay yes, but the worst aspects of said gameplay are futher exaggerated. Like the impossible jumps that you can easily make. It's good, but not as good. That's all I'm saying.
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a lot of the collectables are in unexplored areas...not giant hub areas but out of the way hidden pathways, caves, underwater etc...you also said in your review: "Interesting artifacts? Almost none. Interesting writings? Even less. At least in Rise there were dozens of logs and journals that offered insights into the legacy and the lore of the area"...once again you're incorrect...there are dozens of relics and documents that explain the history of the people and places in the game...now whether you find them interesting is another story...I didn't find the lore as interesting and the documents, murals etc were kind of boring compared to the previous games...but it was there for people to read

you also complain that the jumps Lara makes are not realistic...it's a video game!...it's not a mountain climbing simulation...I really don't understand a lot of your complaints, especially since you claim to be a fan of the previous games
 
polonyc2 said:
a lot of the collectables are in unexplored areas...not giant hub areas but out of the way hidden pathways, caves, underwater etc...you also said in your review: "Interesting artifacts? Almost none. Interesting writings? Even less. At least in Rise there were dozens of logs and journals that offered insights into the legacy and the lore of the area"...once again you're incorrect...there are dozens of relics and documents that explain the history of the people and places in the game...now whether you find them interesting is another story...I didn't find the lore as interesting and the documents, murals etc were kind of boring compared to the previous games...but it was there for people to read

you also complain that the jumps Lara makes are not realistic...it's a video game!...it's not a mountain climbing simulation...I really don't understand a lot of your complaints, especially since you claim to be a fan of the previous games
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But it's only a videogame! is the oldest and most useless excuse ever uttered. I don't know why you'd scoop that low. The previous games weren't videogames? Yes they were. So there, it's no excuse. Because the previous games didn't have this many crazy impossible stunts in them. There the majority of the jumps you had to make looked actually feasible.

Yes the artifacts were copy and pasted, every one of them looked the same that I found. A folded map looking thing, or an envelope. And the journal entries / lore was not interesting and boring, you even admit to it. Then why can't you accept that I liked the previous games much more? In rise most of the collectibles you could look at rotate in 3D and find hidden information on them. Here nothing, there was maybe one of those find the hidden information things, and even that was broken. I talk about the oil well toy, that you could find, where the narrative says that it has made in china written on the bottom, and then you rotate it and there is no writing on the bottom at all. What does that prove? That the game was rushed out.

Maybe it is true that the devs of TR panicked when they saw the latest TLOU2 trailer and decided to get this out the door impossibly fast. But the reasons are unimportant, what matters is that the game is not as good as Rise of the Tomb Raider, therefore I'm disappointed in it. I don't know why can't you accept that.

I accept that you still liked the game as is. I enjoyed it as well, for the most part, but I can't help but feel disappointed and point out it's shortcomings. And I feel obligated that my review score reflects that the game falls well short of the bar set by ROTT
 
M76 said:
But it's only a videogame! is the oldest and most useless excuse ever uttered. I don't know why you'd scoop that low. The previous games weren't videogames? Yes they were. So there, it's no excuse. Because the previous games didn't have this many crazy impossible stunts in them. There the majority of the jumps you had to make looked actually feasible.

Yes the artifacts were copy and pasted, every one of them looked the same that I found. A folded map looking thing, or an envelope. And the journal entries / lore was not interesting and boring, you even admit to it. Then why can't you accept that I liked the previous games much more? In rise most of the collectibles you could look at rotate in 3D and find hidden information on them. Here nothing, there was maybe one of those find the hidden information things, and even that was broken. I talk about the oil well toy, that you could find, where the narrative says that it has made in china written on the bottom, and then you rotate it and there is no writing on the bottom at all. What does that prove? That the game was rushed out.

Maybe it is true that the devs of TR panicked when they saw the latest TLOU2 trailer and decided to get this out the door impossibly fast. But the reasons are unimportant, what matters is that the game is not as good as Rise of the Tomb Raider, therefore I'm disappointed in it. I don't know why can't you accept that.

I accept that you still liked the game as is. I enjoyed it as well, for the most part, but I can't help but feel disappointed and point out it's shortcomings. And I feel obligated that my review score reflects that the game falls well short of the bar set by ROTT
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Yeah I found that to be true as well. I also found "primitive dolls" about three times. Same text that Lara narrated for each as well. Obviously there were still a lot of unique ones, but there was a lot of the same things. Some of the statue/murals also looked the same to me. Folded paper was very common. The last games, everything was unique. Yes this game was rushed, no two ways about it. Even if you loved this game you'd see that. Wish it was given a bit more effort because TR 2013 is one of my favorite games from the past 5 years.
 
finished the game- 96.75% completion...no point trying to go for 100% completion as 1 of the Monoliths in the Peruvian Jungle area is bugged and doesn't give the survival cache...will get 100% later on after it's patched or maybe in NG+

I give the game a score of 89...not quite an A but still an enjoyable romp if you liked the previous 2 TR games...you can definitely feel that a different developer was behind this (Eidos Montreal)...something felt a bit different in terms of pace and structure...gameplay and overall structure is the same but it just feels a bit different...I do love the options they give you-- in the Audio options, Voice-Over Immersion is fantastic (everyone speaks in their native language with English subtitles)...although it does feel a bit strange that Lara replies back in English...the various difficulty options for Puzzles, Exploration and Combat are also well done...not perfect but much better then 98% of other games give you

maybe on a replay the score can get bumped back up to 90+ once you get a feel for how everything works
 
Lots of good stuff here, never played any of them and am about to once I get a nice break from school. Is it worth going back to the very first one and working my way to the end? I'll probably do that but i'd like the opinions of those that have already played all three.
 
g00z13 said:
Lots of good stuff here, never played any of them and am about to once I get a nice break from school. Is it worth going back to the very first one and working my way to the end? I'll probably do that but i'd like the opinions of those that have already played all three.
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I played the first 2 in the weeks leading up to the 3rd game...Shadow still takes some getting used to but it's worth it if you're a fan of the series...some nice callbacks to the first 2 games in the documents (for example you find out more about who shot and killed Anna in the end-credits scene of Rise of the Tomb Raider)
 
I still need to finish it, just that Massive had to drop a Global Event with the Divsion that's been keeping me busy.

I'm only about 45% into the story, it's been enjoyable but there are some frustrating parts too. Like that whole tsunami wave part.
 
polonyc2 said:
finished the game- 96.75% completion...no point trying to go for 100% completion as 1 of the Monoliths in the Peruvian Jungle area is bugged and doesn't give the survival cache...will get 100% later on after it's patched or maybe in NG+

I give the game a score of 89...not quite an A but still an enjoyable romp if you liked the previous 2 TR games...you can definitely feel that a different developer was behind this (Eidos Montreal)...something felt a bit different in terms of pace and structure...gameplay and overall structure is the same but it just feels a bit different...I do love the options they give you-- in the Audio options, Voice-Over Immersion is fantastic (everyone speaks in their native language with English subtitles)...although it does feel a bit strange that Lara replies back in English...the various difficulty options for Puzzles, Exploration and Combat are also well done...not perfect but much better then 98% of other games give you

maybe on a replay the score can get bumped back up to 90+ once you get a feel for how everything works
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I missed that one in my review. But imo the "voice over immersion" thing is as broken as the difficulty settings. The fact that they speak in native to you, but you reply in english makes it completely useless. I turned it off midgame because it drove me nuts. There is no amount of suspension of disbelief that can make that fly. Yes, I know star wars did it first, and it didn't make any more sense there. .
 
VF31Tomcatters said:
I still need to finish it, just that Massive had to drop a Global Event with the Divsion that's been keeping me busy.

I'm only about 45% into the story, it's been enjoyable but there are some frustrating parts too. Like that whole tsunami wave part.
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Note: the game counts everything in the shown progress percentage. Unless you collected all hidden items, and did all side missions, 45% can mean you're around 75-80% in the story easily.
 
M76 said:
I missed that one in my review. But imo the "voice over immersion" thing is as broken as the difficulty settings. The fact that they speak in native to you, but you reply in english makes it completely useless. I turned it off midgame because it drove me nuts. There is no amount of suspension of disbelief that can make that fly. Yes, I know star wars did it first, and it didn't make any more sense there. .
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still better then most games...just giving that option does help with immersion...while not perfect in its implementation, you have to give them credit for at least giving you the difficulty settings and voice-over immersion
 
polonyc2 said:
still better then most games...just giving that option does help with immersion...while not perfect in its implementation, you have to give them credit for at least giving you the difficulty settings and voice-over immersion
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This is definitely not the first game where you can decide if the NPCs should talk in their language or not. I saw it first in Crysis. Changing combat difficulty separately is not new either. They managed to implement both things badly, that deserves no credit. I give credit where credit is due, but this is not such a case
 
M76 said:
This is definitely not the first game where you can decide if the NPCs should talk in their language or not. I saw it first in Crysis. Changing combat difficulty separately is not new either. They managed to implement both things badly, that deserves no credit. I give credit where credit is due, but this is not such a case
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name another game which has native language option and separate difficulty sliders for combat, exploration and puzzles
 
polonyc2 said:
name another game which has native language option and separate difficulty sliders for combat, exploration and puzzles
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I just did in that very post: Crysis do you even read? Since there are no puzzles in it the other doesn't really apply does it? Not that it would be much more different in crysis as I mentioned in my review the so called puzzles in shadow are not really puzzles you just have to climb up something to get to a lever, and that's it. I had to do magnitudes more thinking in Rise of the tomb raider, regardless of not being able to turn off hints. And the hints in Shadow are useless anyway. They are so stupid like "have to pull that lever" OMG If I found the lever why would I need a hint to pull it?

I don't know why are you still trying to paint this game as something revolutionary.

Oh, we can set spoken language of NPCs, even trough it is broken this game is so revolutionary. Bullshit.
 
M76 said:
Note: the game counts everything in the shown progress percentage. Unless you collected all hidden items, and did all side missions, 45% can mean you're around 75-80% in the story easily.
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Picked up some items here and there, a few side missions but have stuck to the main story line. I have to "rescue" a very important lady in Patiti or however you spell it.

ghostwich said:
Why does Lara speak to the natives in English, no matter what setting?
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Don't know why but it kind of bugs me.
 
Typically that is how most games are though. There was a mention of Lopez teaching English to them in one of the documents. I didn't even know there was a language option and just assumed most people there had learned to speak English.
 
M76 said:
I don't know why are you still trying to paint this game as something revolutionary
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where did I say it was revolutionary?...in my review I gave it an 89...the first 2 games were in the 90's...nothing wrong with not liking a game or saying it's average...opinions are subjective...but you're giving false statements about the gameplay...

"Yes the artifacts were copy and pasted, every one of them looked the same that I found. A folded map looking thing, or an envelope...In rise most of the collectibles you could look at rotate in 3D and find hidden information on them. Here nothing, there was maybe one of those find the hidden information things, and even that was broken. I talk about the oil well toy, that you could find, where the narrative says that it has made in china written on the bottom, and then you rotate it and there is no writing on the bottom at all"

the amount of relics in Shadow is pretty much the same as the previous games...is there maybe 2 less or 1 more then Rise?...maybe...I don't know the exact numbers but it doesn't matter...it's pretty much the same as the previous 2...and the amount of hidden info on Relics were also pretty much the same...I would know because I got 100% completion in the first 2 games and 96.75% completion in Shadow...you admittedly did not like the collectables aspect so I don't know how you can make an informed comment on the total number...where there bugs in Shadow sure...but Rise was buggier on release and the first game also had performance issues at launch (mainly due to the hair simulation)

as far as the documents looking the same when you spot them in-game...it was the same in the previous 2 games...only when you open the relics/documents do you see what's inside...they need to look the same on the outside so players can differentitate between the various collectables
 
polonyc2 said:
where did I say it was revolutionary?...in my review I gave it an 89...the first 2 games were in the 90's...nothing wrong with not liking a game or saying it's average...opinions are subjective...but you're giving false statements about the gameplay...

"Yes the artifacts were copy and pasted, every one of them looked the same that I found. A folded map looking thing, or an envelope...In rise most of the collectibles you could look at rotate in 3D and find hidden information on them. Here nothing, there was maybe one of those find the hidden information things, and even that was broken. I talk about the oil well toy, that you could find, where the narrative says that it has made in china written on the bottom, and then you rotate it and there is no writing on the bottom at all"

the amount of relics in Shadow is pretty much the same as the previous games...is there maybe 2 less or 1 more then Rise?...maybe...I don't know the exact numbers but it doesn't matter...it's pretty much the same as the previous 2...and the amount of hidden info on Relics were also pretty much the same...I would know because I got 100% completion in the first 2 games and 96.75% completion in Shadow...you admittedly did not like the collectables aspect so I don't know how you can make an informed comment on the total number...where there bugs in Shadow sure...but Rise was buggier on release and the first game also had performance issues at launch (mainly due to the hair simulation)

as far as the documents looking the same when you spot them in-game...it was the same in the previous 2 games...only when you open the relics/documents do you see what's inside...they need to look the same on the outside so players can differentitate between the various collectables
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I thought we already settled that relics were uninteresting and most looked the same. Not just when you found them, but in the journal/relics menu as well. You even admitted to as much, so why pivot now to the number of relics? That was never the topic of the discussion. And I never even complained about the number of relics. I complained about the number of interesting relics.

Don't tell me, that this post wasn't meant to imply that it is revolutionary because they did both.
polonyc2 said:
name another game which has native language option and separate difficulty sliders for combat, exploration and puzzles
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M76 said:
I thought we already settled that relics were uninteresting and most looked the same. Not just when you found them, but in the journal/relics menu as well. You even admitted to as much, so why pivot now to the number of relics? That was never the topic of the discussion. And I never even complained about the number of relics. I complained about the number of interesting relics.

Don't tell me, that this post wasn't meant to imply that it is revolutionary because they did both.
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you never respond to anything that was said by you, even when quoted...you just go on some tangent about something else...as far as what you infer as revolutionary that's not my words...like I said I gave the game an 89 and stated my opinions
 
My RTX 2080 Ti arrived, so I'm finally starting this up...and wow is it impressive looking. It might have the best graphics + presentation of any game I can recall. From the terrific lighting and environmental effects to fantastic surround sound.
I'm not able to run everything maxed out for what it's worth. I have most things cranked, but shadows are "normal" and I have AA set to 2x. That doesn't seem to drop below 60fps during the entire first 45 minute sequence.
HDR is wonky since it uses the Windows HDR setting, but I managed to get it looking nice by turning the Windows HDR brightness all the way down and setting both the normal and HDR brightness in-game roughly halfway. This is definitely one of those showcase items for that functionality once it's tweaked.

However I have gotten 2 crashes to desktop thus far. Different places and not in areas with heavy stress. Both gave me a display driver error and suggested I change my detail settings. Anyone else have this or is it an RTX (or specific setting) thing?
 
This is a solid game, but I don't think it tops the second game. It really comes down to the jungle setting and the limitations that puts on the scope of the overall map design. Ultimately it just doesn't feel as expansive as the second title. It feels about on par with the first title at least though. Also, I generally feel that the second title really knocked it out of the park with the 'monsters' and that theme. There is nothing wrong with the theme of this final title, but the 'monsters' just generally aren't as cool along with being 100% predictable.



I do wish the HDR gsync panels would come down in price. I can tell that this game is really one of those titles that having a HDR panel would help immensely given how dark most areas are.
 
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polonyc2 said:
you never respond to anything that was said by you, even when quoted...you just go on some tangent about something else...as far as what you infer as revolutionary that's not my words...like I said I gave the game an 89 and stated my opinions
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What? Why would I respond to my own comments?! I respond to yours, I thought that's how conversations work. OK, then what did you mean by that comment if not that the game is revolutionary? The ball is with you, not me.

It seems to me that you're using the apple defense for this game. "you must be playing it wrong!"
 
g00z13 said:
Lots of good stuff here, never played any of them and am about to once I get a nice break from school. Is it worth going back to the very first one and working my way to the end? I'll probably do that but i'd like the opinions of those that have already played all three.
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I just started playing the first one 2013, those quicktime events are fucking annoying.
 
polonyc2 said:
I played the first 2 in the weeks leading up to the 3rd game...Shadow still takes some getting used to but it's worth it if you're a fan of the series...some nice callbacks to the first 2 games in the documents (for example you find out more about who shot and killed Anna in the end-credits scene of Rise of the Tomb Raider)
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Spoiler alert, haha just kidding. alright you convinced me. Man that backlog is growing like cancer.
 
TheMadHatterXxX said:
I just started playing the first one 2013, those quicktime events are fucking annoying.
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Yeah they are, thankfully they are all but gone for the other two games. As it stands I think Rise is the best of the three by a big margin, the first game is the second best, and this one is the third. The gameplay is better in this, but the story and the environments still tip the scale towards the first game.
 
how is it possible to make this game so boring...we had so many great story games by now...but this...puts smile on my face
 
polonyc2 said:
a lot of the collectables are in unexplored areas...not giant hub areas but out of the way hidden pathways, caves, underwater etc...you also said in your review: "Interesting artifacts? Almost none. Interesting writings? Even less. At least in Rise there were dozens of logs and journals that offered insights into the legacy and the lore of the area"...once again you're incorrect...there are dozens of relics and documents that explain the history of the people and places in the game...now whether you find them interesting is another story...I didn't find the lore as interesting and the documents, murals etc were kind of boring compared to the previous games...but it was there for people to read

you also complain that the jumps Lara makes are not realistic...it's a video game!...it's not a mountain climbing simulation...I really don't understand a lot of your complaints, especially since you claim to be a fan of the previous games
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I will admit that I immediately noticed the magnetism of jumping in this game, and it also bothered me. To be fair, the previous games did the same, but maybe it was less obvious because movement and animations were not as smooth as they are in Shadow.
polonyc2 said:
Shadow of the Tomb Raider launched with a different ending that was patched out on day one

https://www.pcgamer.com/shadow-of-t...erent-ending-that-was-patched-out-on-day-one/
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A little late.

https://hardforum.com/threads/eidos...-ending-in-shadow-of-the-tomb-raider.1968414/
 
Mchart said:
I can tell that this game is really one of those titles that having a HDR panel would help immensely given how dark most areas are.
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I'm not super far yet, but what's interesting is that it's actually somewhat bright with HDR enabled. Whenever there is sky available, there is a hazy dull light everywhere that's actually pretty realistically represented. I'll start to think something is wrong with my settings, but once there's no sky, the dark areas are pitch black and your flashlight (or torches/fires) shine very brightly. Colors change from dull to saturated based on the amount of ambient light, too.

I'm not sure how I feel about it as a game yet, but I'd say it makes for a hell of a tech demo. I'm guessing that with ray tracing added that will be the case even more.
 
For what it's worth, I haven't had any additional crashes since I swapped away from "Exclusive Fullscreen."
There are some Steam threads suggesting that the game doesn't like certain Win 10 notifications in Exclusive Fullscreen mode, so that could have been the issue.
 
Looks like a new patch for the game started rolling out yesterday. It might just be the RTX ray tracing patch, but I'd like to think they're still fixing issues with the game, too.
Gamepad-wise, I'm a big fan of the Xbox's dongle vs. generic Bluetooth. It's an additional $20, but it's bulletproof. Whenever I'd do tests using Bluetooth, I'd see dropped inputs. In the Street Fighter games you can actually see and count input commands, and across 4 different Bluetooth adapters I'd see about 1 out of every 6 inputs drop. It doesn't matter in every game, but it was enough to get me to spend the money for MS's adapter, which drops 0.
 
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