SFF - GW2 Max/High Settings - Please advise/help

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timetrapper

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I was referred to these forums by another member. For one reason or another, I’ve decided to get a SFF gaming unit. (Traveling etc, would want it to fit in a carry on 55cm×40cm×25cm (22×16×10 inches))

1. I’ll be using this SFF for gaming (Guild Wars 2 max/high settings etc). I’d post the recommended settings but the game box doesn’t list it, it only lists the minimum. Please note, these are the minimum of the game and want to aim for max settings: Intel core 2 duo 2.0 ghz, core i3, amd Athlon 64 x2 or better. Nvidea geforce 7800, ATI Radeon X1800, Intel HD 3000 or better (256MB of video RAM and shader model 3.0 or better. 25GB available HDD space.
2. Budget is $1000 (I’d like to stay below 1000 unless it just isn’t enough)
3. Here is where I need the advice that would keep me at or around 1000 USD (1250 as a hard ceiling) (if you see anything missing, please let me know)

CPU ?
Video Card ?
Motherboard ?
Memory ?
HDD ?
Optical Drive ?
Power Supply Unit ?
Operating System ?
Case: Silverstone Tek SG05B-USB3.0 or LIAN LI PC-TU200B (recommended to me by another member, so I’ll say this is fine unless anyone has a better idea/recommendation
Monitor: Disregard & don’t include in the budget, as I should have access to a TV with HDMI, though I would want the SFF to be able to output HDMI 1080P resolution.
Mouse & Keyboard & Headphones: Disregard & don’t include in the budget, I’ll work this out myself
*Note: I’m basically going to copy paste the info above into amazon, newegg.com etc and just click and purchase and/or check Fry’s/Microcenter in my hometown

4. I plan to build the PC as soon as I get the info
Note: I’ve heard an SSD drive is great, though I’m a PC noob so I don’t exactly know where that would fit in but I’d like to include it if possible.
5. The PC won’t be on 24/7, but I’ll be in a place with thin walls, I’d want it to not be loud enough to make the others in my house share complain (though it’s not a roomshare)

Lastly, I appreciate any specific help on a full recommendation I can get as I am a PC building noob with only experience gaming. Which means, I can learn or get help from the people at Fry’s or Microcenter, but won’t know if parts are compatible so this is why I wanted to get a full list instead of doing it piecemeal by myself or partial advice and finding out I don’t know what I’m doing hundreds of dollars later. Thanks!
 
make sure to answer all of these questions first then someone will give you some great advice. you can build plenty of computer with that budget. :)
 
I can confirm that a 7970 at stock settings and a non-overclocked Phenom II X4 955 will run GW2 on max/ultra settings perfectly fine at 1080P, even in huge gigantic zerg WvWvW battles.

I would get an i5 3570k and an HD 7950 if I were you.
 
Case: Would personally not recommend the PC-TU200, there are cooling issues in it. SG05 is excellent.
CPU: Intel i5-3570K
Cooler: Corsair H80
Video Card: HD7970 or GTX670 (7970 performs slightly better at max resolutions according to this)
Motherboard: Asrock Z77E-ITX (cheaper than ASUS, same performance, faster boots)
Memory: 16GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 Ares
HDD: basically whatever you want that has a good warranty. WD Red is a pretty decent lineup right now
Optical: None, be hardcore
PSU: The SG05 comes with a 450W Bronze rated SFX PSU
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium OEM (unless you own a legit copy already)
SSD: There's a bunch that are pretty good. Something with a Sandforce controller and toggle-nand is where you want to be generally speaking. There are a couple new drives that are pretty interesting on the side too: Corsair Neutrons use a lamd controller which seems to perform fairly well, the drives have a good warranty and their performance should increase over time with firmware. Plextor make the M3 Pro and M5 Pro, both are excellent, perform well, and have amazing (5 year) warranties.

Not a comprehensive build guide but it should get you on the road. Others around here will most likely chip in as well. I chose 16GB memory even though you realistically only need 8GB currently, this is a little bit of future-proofing and RAM isn't your bottleneck.
 
Right off the bat, I'll tell you to take advantage of the cpu/mobo combos at Microcenter if you've got one nearby. Namely, i'd jump all over the i5-3570K + ASRock Z77E-ITX combo for $285 + tax before you do anything else ;)
 
Machupo said:
Right off the bat, I'll tell you to take advantage of the cpu/mobo combos at Microcenter if you've got one nearby. Namely, i'd jump all over the i5-3570K + ASRock Z77E-ITX combo for $285 + tax before you do anything else ;)
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I will double this, I just finished my build using this combo and it is such a sexy combo, they really can't be beat on this deal.

I will also double that you can't go wrong with i5-3570k and the ASRock Z77 board, fanastic boot times that are some of the fastest I've ever experienced, puts my old rig to shame with it's RAID 0 with WD Blacks.

I wouldn't go with the WD Red HDD that another member mentioned for the sole fact that you'll be paying for something you'll have no need for which is NAS/RAID compatibility.

Personally I'd go with the biggest SSD that can fit in your budget, they are so cheap right now and really are worth every penny plus no moving parts so they are a sure bet for packing around to lans etc., of course if you're going to be storing a ton of data then you may want to go with a smaller SSD and then a large mechanical drive.

If you wanted to save a bit of cash too you could go for the EVGA nVidia 660 TI which would be a banging card for the dough plus it has 3GB of vram which will help out for games with lots of textures like MMOs, it is a lower bitrate memory at 192bit but you'll have to decide if the bump in price is worth it to get 256bit of something like the EVGA GTX 670 4GB, which imo is one of the better cards out on the market right now.

Although it's hard to ignore the AMD cards performance/price ratio if you are okay with figuring out driver issues at times, or accepting subpar performance until new drivers comes out for newer games, although right now I think AMD is doing okay with drivers and squeezing out performance of their existing line up. I'm sure someone else will chime in with more information on the AMD cards, I'm no expert on the subject.

I would check on the SG05, it's a small case that would take some work to get the wiring done up correctly so that you'd get good airflow to maintain a quiet system, although if you're not overclocking you should probably do pretty well with that case.
 
ekuest said:
make sure to answer all of these questions first then someone will give you some great advice. you can build plenty of computer with that budget. :)
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1. What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming, Photoshop (or other intensive programs), Overclocking, Web browsing, strictly HTPC/Playback, etc. (If you have multiple things you want to do with the system, make sure you rank them from most important to least important).
Gaming (GW2 etc)

2. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?
$1000.00 USD don't worry about the tax and i'd like to not go over the 1000 dollar budget

3. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?
I have access to both Microcenter, Fry’s, and don’t mind using Newegg etc.

4. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
See above point 3. If anything is left out to get the computer running, well I guess I’ll have to figure it out. I assumed that was everything needed to get it running.

5. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.
Not reusing any parts

6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.
Don't know of any specific features I would need.

7. What resolution output do you need? 1080p, 720p, DVD quality, etc for HTPC or list Vertical/horizontal resolution for non-HTPC SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?
1080p HDMI

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc.
Able to fit as a carry-on 55cm×40cm×25cm (22×16×10 inches) though doesn’t need a handle etc

9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?

No tools. Never drilled or smoldered before. I can buy tools if needed. Haven’t built a PC before, so if this is going to get uber hardcore let me know. Though I wonder if Microcenter could put it together for a fee. Ill check on that.

10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care
Noise/silence isn’t too big a deal unless its loud enough for someone in a room next door in a house with thin walls to get upset about.

11. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?
Nah doesn’t need to have a handle or straps. Would be a carry on though.

12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards
No. Though any OS you can recommend would be great.

13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
As soon as I get all the parts info, ill start buying them.
 
crABtoad said:
Case: Would personally not recommend the PC-TU200, there are cooling issues in it. SG05 is excellent.
CPU: Intel i5-3570K
Cooler: Corsair H80
Video Card: HD7970 or GTX670 (7970 performs slightly better at max resolutions according to this)
Motherboard: Asrock Z77E-ITX (cheaper than ASUS, same performance, faster boots)
Memory: 16GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 Ares
HDD: basically whatever you want that has a good warranty. WD Red is a pretty decent lineup right now
Optical: None, be hardcore
PSU: The SG05 comes with a 450W Bronze rated SFX PSU
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium OEM (unless you own a legit copy already)
SSD: There's a bunch that are pretty good. Something with a Sandforce controller and toggle-nand is where you want to be generally speaking. There are a couple new drives that are pretty interesting on the side too: Corsair Neutrons use a lamd controller which seems to perform fairly well, the drives have a good warranty and their performance should increase over time with firmware. Plextor make the M3 Pro and M5 Pro, both are excellent, perform well, and have amazing (5 year) warranties.

Not a comprehensive build guide but it should get you on the road. Others around here will most likely chip in as well. I chose 16GB memory even though you realistically only need 8GB currently, this is a little bit of future-proofing and RAM isn't your bottleneck.
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Thanks man! This brought a tear to my eye. Thanks for the straightforward recommendation. Thanks to the other guys for their feedback. I'll start checking prices for all this stuff, and probably just print this out and head to Microcenter and see whats there. Unless any sees any flaws in this process about to be undertaken for the above checklist of items, I'm off!:)
 
The others here have given you good advice so I cant add too much but if your budget cant be met drop the SSD and just go with a regular hdd. Can save lots of money that way and the system will still be a really good gaming rig.

I do have one question though. You say:
' (Traveling etc, would want it to fit in a carry on 55cm×40cm×25cm (22×16×10 inches))'

Do you plan on taking this on a plane? If so you may want to stay to something pretty small like the SG05 or the SG07/08 type box.
 
Also, if you are going on a plane with this you cannot use an AIO water cooler like the h80.
 
Sorry, I missed the part where you would want it to be air-travel friendly. Scythe Kozuti would be a great cooler that fits that board/cpu/case without modding, AXP-140 is an amazing cooler but it's pretty heavyweight, not sure if I'd recommend it for someone's first build.

This is partly related as well: If you opt out of the optical drive (like i recommended) you will need to create a bootable Windows 7 usb using another computer. I can give you steps for doing this if you require them.

You will need some thermal paste if you're getting an aftermarket cooler (such as the kozuti), Arctic Silver 5 is high performance, cheap, readily available and easy to work with.
 
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Machupo said:
Also, if you are going on a plane with this you cannot use an AIO water cooler like the h80.
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good point! i never even thought of that.

timetrapper said:
Yeah i would be taking it on a plane. So which cooler should i get?
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well there are a few good choices for low profile heat sinks. the stock cooler is plenty small and meant for your cpu, so obviously it is adequate. it will be a little loud at load and you will be very limited in OCing ability. searching for a better heatsink, you are limited to ~82mm with the sg05. the Noctua NH-L12 is 66mm without the top fan. with a scythe 15mm thick fan on top you should be able to fit it at 81mm. the Zalman CNPS 8900 Extreme is a very good LP hsf that actually outperforms many taller HSFs. you just have to make sure it fits your board. it barely didnt fit on my GA-H55n-USB3 by about 2mm (hit the gpu) and that board looks like the cpu placement is pretty similar. the AXP-140 is a great heat sink but doesnt leave room for a fan, so youd have to have good intake fans or you'll be relying solely on the psu exhaust fan. finally, the Cooler Master GeminII S is a great hsf that is 5mm too tall with the stock fan. you can use either a 15mm thick scythe or a 20mm thick yate look fan and then it should fit. i would say your best bets are the geminII and the noctua. you may even be able to jerry-rig a bigger fan onto the bottom of the NH-L12 and blow air up.

also remember that with any of these if youre within a few mm of the psu then you want to pull air up so as not to fight the psu fan and starve it. if you blow air up right up against the psu, youll only be blowing from a 120mm fan into a 80mm hole, and the rest of the airflow will be blocked with nowhere to go, effectively reducing your 120mm fan to an 80mm fan.
 
ekuest said:
good point! i never even thought of that.



well there are a few good choices for low profile heat sinks. the stock cooler is plenty small and meant for your cpu, so obviously it is adequate. it will be a little loud at load and you will be very limited in OCing ability. searching for a better heatsink, you are limited to ~82mm with the sg05. the Noctua NH-L12 is 66mm without the top fan. with a scythe 15mm thick fan on top you should be able to fit it at 81mm. the Zalman CNPS 8900 Extreme is a very good LP hsf that actually outperforms many taller HSFs. you just have to make sure it fits your board. it barely didnt fit on my GA-H55n-USB3 by about 2mm (hit the gpu) and that board looks like the cpu placement is pretty similar. the AXP-140 is a great heat sink but doesnt leave room for a fan, so youd have to have good intake fans or you'll be relying solely on the psu exhaust fan. finally, the Cooler Master GeminII S is a great hsf that is 5mm too tall with the stock fan. you can use either a 15mm thick scythe or a 20mm thick yate look fan and then it should fit. i would say your best bets are the geminII and the noctua. you may even be able to jerry-rig a bigger fan onto the bottom of the NH-L12 and blow air up.

also remember that with any of these if youre within a few mm of the psu then you want to pull air up so as not to fight the psu fan and starve it. if you blow air up right up against the psu, youll only be blowing from a 120mm fan into a 80mm hole, and the rest of the airflow will be blocked with nowhere to go, effectively reducing your 120mm fan to an 80mm fan.
Click to expand...

Both the Zalman and the Cooler Master GeminII S will cause fitment issues on Mini ITX with a graphics card, I've tried both of them.

The only cooler I found that was pretty good performance/price wise was the Zalman CNPS8000B. It allowed a little modest overclocking but nothing out of this world but it wasn't too loud either, definitely more quiet than the intel stock hsf and honestly I thought it looked pretty sweet on a Mini ITX board.

The Prolimatech Samuel 17 looked like a great hsf but it's tough to find.

I misspoke the GeminII S I haven't tried but it's rather tall, the GeminII M4 is what I've tried and it definitely didn't work, sorry for the confusion.
 
xyexz said:
Both the Zalman and the Cooler Master GeminII S will cause fitment issues on Mini ITX with a graphics card, I've tried both of them.

The only cooler I found that was pretty good performance/price wise was the Zalman CNPS8000B. It allowed a little modest overclocking but nothing out of this world but it wasn't too loud either, definitely more quiet than the intel stock hsf and honestly I thought it looked pretty sweet on a Mini ITX board.

The Prolimatech Samuel 17 looked like a great hsf but it's tough to find.

I misspoke the GeminII S I haven't tried but it's rather tall, the GeminII M4 is what I've tried and it definitely didn't work, sorry for the confusion.
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yeah like i said the 8900 has fitment issues with a gpu. mine was super close so i thought id mention it. the geminII should be fine afaik. i got a samuel 17 for like $55 shipped to HI last week which really isnt bad. now i only see it for $65 before shipping on AVAdirect.com. i would be happy to sell you mine after i can do a couple comparison tests in the next week or two with some other heat sinks. i have the axp-140, samuel 17, and scythe kozuti right now and would like to get my hands on a geminII S and an NH-L12 at some point.
 
ekuest said:
yeah like i said the 8900 has fitment issues with a gpu. mine was super close so i thought id mention it. the geminII should be fine afaik. i got a samuel 17 for like $55 shipped to HI last week which really isnt bad. now i only see it for $65 before shipping on AVAdirect.com. i would be happy to sell you mine after i can do a couple comparison tests in the next week or two with some other heat sinks. i have the axp-140, samuel 17, and scythe kozuti right now and would like to get my hands on a geminII S and an NH-L12 at some point.
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Going to chime in on this, the Noctua NH-L12 has fitment issues on the ASRock Z77E-ITX and will block the PCIE slot.
 
If forced to go with air cooling I'd suggest the newer IB cpus over the older SB cpus simply because they do run cooler if you don't start adding more voltage for overclocks. In stock form and low overclocks (K models) these CPUs will perform well for gaming and run cooler. If you can find a hsf that can also fit a fan on it would be the better way to go obviously.
 
Is 16gb of RAM really necessary? REALLY?

I'd go with 8gb of RAM, and put more money towards the SSD. I'd also like to point out that that cooling solution will make the system much more heavy and more difficult to put together.
 
crABtoad said:
I chose 16GB memory even though you realistically only need 8GB currently, this is a little bit of future-proofing and RAM isn't your bottleneck.
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In hindsight I should've provided him with a low-profile 8GB alternative instead of a footnote, you're right.

I think we need to regroup regarding the cooling solution on this build. Fitting an AXP-140 in that case sounds like a nightmare for a first time builder. The Cooler Master Geminii S seems like a good candidate here. Does anyone else have a better heatsink that will satisfy both the case and motherboard, that is also relatively easy to work with?
 
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Skott said:
If forced to go with air cooling I'd suggest the newer IB cpus over the older SB cpus simply because they do run cooler if you don't start adding more voltage for overclocks. In stock form and low overclocks (K models) these CPUs will perform well for gaming and run cooler. If you can find a hsf that can also fit a fan on it would be the better way to go obviously.
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I'll chime in on this, I would actually have to disagree with the fact that they run cooler, most of the IB processors have heat issues because of the poor choice Intel made for using cheap paste under the ihs.

However, on a positive note, you can undervolt the crap out of IB processors to mitigate the temps completely.

I have my 3570k undervolted by an offset of -0.195V and under full load running OCCT or Prime95 or even intel burn test it doesn't break 65c which I'd say is pretty good for a custom water loop cooling cpu/gpu on a single 120mm rad.
 
xyexz said:
I'll chime in on this, I would actually have to disagree with the fact that they run cooler, most of the IB processors have heat issues because of the poor choice Intel made for using cheap paste under the ihs.

However, on a positive note, you can undervolt the crap out of IB processors to mitigate the temps completely.

I have my 3570k undervolted by an offset of -0.195V and under full load running OCCT or Prime95 or even intel burn test it doesn't break 65c which I'd say is pretty good for a custom water loop cooling cpu/gpu on a single 120mm rad.
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I don't have one I admit but from everything I hear and read is that they don't start running higher temps than a SB until you start adding voltage to the cpu. So at stock form or small overclocks, where no voltage increase is given, they run cooler in comparison. I have seen tests indicating this so I figure it must be true.
 
Skott said:
I don't have one I admit but from everything I hear and read is that they don't start running higher temps than a SB until you start adding voltage to the cpu. So at stock form or small overclocks, where no voltage increase is given, they run cooler in comparison. I have seen tests indicating this so I figure it must be true.
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In my experience and others from what I've read IB temps increase even with frequency increases, which stands to reason - you are making it run faster.

Not to mention smaller dies 22nm vs 33nm have a harder time dissipating the heat, but in my experiences disabled the iGPU makes this a moot point, and unless you're using VirtuMVP then you don't need the iGPU with a discrete GPU.

Either way, I think clock for clock IB will run cool enough for the OPs applications, just finding the right cooler is a challenge.

I just wrote a post on my blog regarding my experiences with undervolting my IB 3570k, it's pretty nuts how much cooler I was able to make it by only undervolting.
 
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