Settled on napp-it+OI for a home use file server... help me pick the components!

R

roach9

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
147
First, I'd like to thank everyone who has helped me out, Jim_G, _Gea, to name just a few. Great community you all have here! I know this is a long post, but I'm rather new to all this so I'll try to be thorough as I can for why I did what I did, maybe I'll help someone else out along the way!

Here is my tentative build. I'm extremely open to criticism & suggestions!
Case: Fractal Design Define XL
I opted to go with this because I do not have the space for a rack, as I am 22 years old and moving around quite a lot from house to house. I own a file-server (that I am selling) with this case and really like the space, and it will adequately hold my 12 hard drives.
fractal-design-define-xl-pc-case-sideview.jpg


Motherboard: Intel S1200BTL
As per Jim_Gs suggestion, I think it is best if I go with a server quality core, hence my motherboard decision.
  • Will this fit in my case?
  • Are there any newer motherboards out there within this price range ($200-$230 CDN)
  • Do the SATA slots on this motherboard support 3TB drives?
1019199566.jpg


Processor: Intel Core i3 2100
I simply cannot afford to grab the Xeon, though I know it is likely what is suggested. This still looks more than adequate for a server, I think.
  • What are the pitfalls of this vs. a Xeon?

RAM: Kingston KVR1333D3D8R9S/4G 4GB DDR3 1333MHz ECC Registered CL9 DIMM 1.5V Server Memory
Alright... admittedly I do not know much about ECC memory, in fact, Jim_G introduced me to it but it seems important. I was thinking of grabbing two of these sets for a total of 8GB.
  • Is this enough RAM?
  • Is this compatible with my motherboard?
  • Do you know of any less expensive RAM? (on NCIX)

SAS Expander: IBM ServeRAID M1015
Also, this was suggested to me. It will be powered 8 drives, with 4 others being powered by my motherboard. I intend on flashing it to LSI IT mode.
  • Will this be a bottle-neck or is it suitable?

Hard drives: Hitachi 3TB 5400 RPM or WD 3TB drives
Not sure what to go with here... any suggestions?

Power supply: Seasonic S12II 520W EPS12V 20/24PIN ATX Power Supply Active PFC 80+ Bronze 6+8PIN PCI-E W/ 120MM Fan
Good reviews... any reason NOT to go with this?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I plan on running napp-it + OI on a USB flash disc drive which will be internally mounted.

In regards to teh L2ARC & ZIL... any suggestions? Is it really necessary to get an SSD for a moderately used home-server?

Thanks for any time you take in framing your suggestions. I know it was a long read.

:)
 
I am not sure how safe it will be to run the open Indiana on a regular (MLC) USB Flash drive. Do you have inexpensive SLC drives available?
 
SLC is a kind of process they use to make NAND flash drive

SLC is known to have greater lifespan; however, they are usually associated with higher price tag.
 
I see... hmmm... you guys really think it's necessary? I could theoretically buy 4 8GB USB flash drives, clone them all, and have them be good to go in the case one breaks down? Probably $40 in total.
 
roach9 said:
Case: Fractal Design Define XL
I opted to go with this because I do not have the space for a rack, as I am 22 years old and moving around quite a lot from house to house. I own a file-server (that I am selling) with this case and really like the space, and it will adequately hold my 12 hard drives.
Click to expand...
Good case. However, I want to point out that you don't neccesarily need a rack to use server rackmount cases like the Norco 4220. With the 4220, you can remove the handles on the side and then stand it up on its side like a normal ATX case. The dimensions aren't all that different either compared to your Fractal Design choice:
Fractal Design Define XL Dimensions: 22.10" x 9.13" x 22.05
Norco 4220 Dimensions (when stood up): 25.5" x 7.0" x 19.0"

So in other words, space isn't that big of an issue.
roach9 said:
Motherboard: Intel S1200BTL
As per Jim_Gs suggestion, I think it is best if I go with a server quality core, hence my motherboard decision.
  • Will this fit in my case?
  • Are there any newer motherboards out there within this price range ($200-$230 CDN)
  • Do the SATA slots on this motherboard support 3TB drives?
Click to expand...
1) Yes
2) I'd recommend a Super Micro mobo since that Intel mobo only shows up 2-3 times here on the forums. As such, you may have trouble finding help whereas a lot of the server builds on this forum use Supermicro mobos. So I recommend this similar Supermicro mobo instead:
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=60107&vpn=MBD-X9SCM-F-O&manufacture=SuperMicro
3) Both mobos should work fine with 3TB drives.
roach9 said:
Processor: Intel Core i3 2100
I simply cannot afford to grab the Xeon, though I know it is likely what is suggested. This still looks more than adequate for a server, I think.
  • What are the pitfalls of this vs. a Xeon?
Click to expand...
You probably won't be able to use the ECC RAM aspect. I will have to get back to you on this as I need to do a bit more research on this.
roach9 said:
RAM: Kingston KVR1333D3D8R9S/4G 4GB DDR3 1333MHz ECC Registered CL9 DIMM 1.5V Server Memory
Alright... admittedly I do not know much about ECC memory, in fact, Jim_G introduced me to it but it seems important. I was thinking of grabbing two of these sets for a total of 8GB.
  • Is this enough RAM?
  • Is this compatible with my motherboard?
  • Do you know of any less expensive RAM? (on NCIX)
Click to expand...
From what I've read, you're gonna want 8GB of RAM minimum. I recommend this other Kingston 8GB ECC RAM set since I know for sure it's gonna work with the above Supermicro mobo:
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=62867&vpn=KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G&manufacture=Kingston

Not to mention that it's a little cheaper than getting two of the RAM you listed.
roach9 said:
SAS Expander: IBM ServeRAID M1015
Also, this was suggested to me. It will be powered 8 drives, with 4 others being powered by my motherboard. I intend on flashing it to LSI IT mode.
  • Will this be a bottle-neck or is it suitable?
Click to expand...
It will definitly be suitable.

roach9 said:
Power supply: Seasonic S12II 520W EPS12V 20/24PIN ATX Power Supply Active PFC 80+ Bronze 6+8PIN PCI-E W/ 120MM Fan
Good reviews... any reason NOT to go with this?
Click to expand...
Might not be enough power in the future should you try to go past 16 drives :)
 
The first problem I noticed is your wish to use ECC memory (which i think is absolutely necessary if you value your data) and the use if an i3 processor. Intel forces you to go the Xeon route if you want to use ECC memory. AMD on the other hand supports ECC in both its enterprise and desktop processors, bar the Sempron and AMD A-Series APUs, as far as I am aware.

Edit: you also need a motherboard that supports ECC in the BIOS. Check out ASUS if you go the AMD route as many of their boards are reportedly good. If you choose intel then I guess you need a server grade MOBO.
 
Last edited:
aviat72 said:
I am not sure how safe it will be to run the open Indiana on a regular (MLC) USB Flash drive. Do you have inexpensive SLC drives available?
Click to expand...
Maybe MLC flash is not safe nor secure. But ZFS will detect all errors at once. I dont think it is a problem using the unsafe MLC variant. As soon ZFS reports errors (zpool status) you just change the usb disk.
 
Avoid a USB boot disk. Its slow like hell (OpenIndiana is not intended to run from slow USB disks)
Use a regular Sata Laptop disk or a 40 GB Sata SSD instead - attached to onboard Sata (use AHCI)

Use a recent MLC like Intel 320 or similar.
I would also prefer the SuperMicro Board with ECC RAM
Option: Use a CPU that is vt-d capable, If you also need other Systems, you can then virtualize OpenIndiana
 
_Gea said:
Avoid a USB boot disk. Its slow like hell (OpenIndiana is not intended to run from slow USB disks)
Use a regular Sata Laptop disk or a 40 GB Sata SSD instead - attached to onboard Sata (use AHCI)
Click to expand...

But isn't the OS loaded into memory and then once the system's up it shouldn't be hitting the USB at all? Or am I missing something?

It just seems like a waste of a SATA port to have a disk dedicated to such a small (< 5 GB) OS. :(
 
In theory you need a Xeon for ECC memory support, but I read somewhere that the i3 (not i5 or i7) did in fact support ECC.

However, you chose registered memory, that's memory used with specific machines having dozens of memory slots, and is not compatible with regular motherboards/CPUs. You need unregistered (also called unbuffered).
 
You might want to have two mirrored SSDs for the OS... Loading OS from USB to memory? What?!?!
Run all your large drives off controller cards and have them in a different pool then the OS itself.

Didn't you just post a few hours ago about OI solutions? And you're already settled and ready to purchase? Not my build and I'm sure you're qualified but personally I'd be doing a lot more research and reading before I came to to ask for component advice. If I did ask, I'd try to keep it to one component at a time.

This thread is nearly impossible to read because every post is advice for a different hardware component. ARG.
 
As per Intel.com

Does the Intel Core i3 desktop processor support Error Correction Code (ECC) memory?

The Intel Core i3 desktop processor does not support ECC memory. ECC memory is typically used on servers and workstations, rather than on desktop platforms, because of the price premium and low likelihood of a data error occurring on memory not using ECC.
Click to expand...
 
I would suspect Intel is being misleading there though - I can confirm the 1st Gen i3's worked with ECC, and that article doesn't distinguish between the two (it even refers to 1156 and 1155). Intel seems to be very vague about this "feature" of their lower end processors. (Well, except for the referenced article, which I know is incorrect in some instances)

In the ARK for the i5 and i7 intel specifically says No for ECC, but for the i3 and pentium processors they leave it blank -
http://ark.intel.com/compare/52213,52269,53422

(this makes sense, as it's the combination of i3/pentium + c202/204/206 that should give ecc - if it flat out didn't support ecc at all then I would expect it to say "No" like the i5 and i7.

Finally HP advertises explicitly that i3 and Pentium *do* support ecc, i5/i7 don't.
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13873_ca/13873_ca.HTML
HP Website said:
Intel® Xeon E3, Intel Core i3 and Intel Pentium processors can support either ECC or non-ECC memory; Intel® Core i5/i7 processors only support non-ECC memory.
Click to expand...
 
I guess if they stated that the i3 DOES support ECC, it would drastically undercut sales of their Xeon line.
 
roach9 said:
First, I'd like to thank everyone who has helped me out, Jim_G, _Gea, to name just a few. Great community you all have here! I know this is a long post, but I'm rather new to all this so I'll try to be thorough as I can for why I did what I did, maybe I'll help someone else out along the way!

Here is my tentative build. I'm extremely open to criticism & suggestions!
Case: Fractal Design Define XL
I opted to go with this because I do not have the space for a rack, as I am 22 years old and moving around quite a lot from house to house. I own a file-server (that I am selling) with this case and really like the space, and it will adequately hold my 12 hard drives.
fractal-design-define-xl-pc-case-sideview.jpg


Motherboard: Intel S1200BTL
As per Jim_Gs suggestion, I think it is best if I go with a server quality core, hence my motherboard decision.
  • Will this fit in my case?
  • Are there any newer motherboards out there within this price range ($200-$230 CDN)
  • Do the SATA slots on this motherboard support 3TB drives?
1019199566.jpg


Processor: Intel Core i3 2100
I simply cannot afford to grab the Xeon, though I know it is likely what is suggested. This still looks more than adequate for a server, I think.
  • What are the pitfalls of this vs. a Xeon?

RAM: Kingston KVR1333D3D8R9S/4G 4GB DDR3 1333MHz ECC Registered CL9 DIMM 1.5V Server Memory
Alright... admittedly I do not know much about ECC memory, in fact, Jim_G introduced me to it but it seems important. I was thinking of grabbing two of these sets for a total of 8GB.
  • Is this enough RAM?
  • Is this compatible with my motherboard?
  • Do you know of any less expensive RAM? (on NCIX)

SAS Expander: IBM ServeRAID M1015
Also, this was suggested to me. It will be powered 8 drives, with 4 others being powered by my motherboard. I intend on flashing it to LSI IT mode.
  • Will this be a bottle-neck or is it suitable?

Hard drives: Hitachi 3TB 5400 RPM or WD 3TB drives
Not sure what to go with here... any suggestions?

Power supply: Seasonic S12II 520W EPS12V 20/24PIN ATX Power Supply Active PFC 80+ Bronze 6+8PIN PCI-E W/ 120MM Fan
Good reviews... any reason NOT to go with this?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I plan on running napp-it + OI on a USB flash disc drive which will be internally mounted.

In regards to teh L2ARC & ZIL... any suggestions? Is it really necessary to get an SSD for a moderately used home-server?

Thanks for any time you take in framing your suggestions. I know it was a long read.

:)
Click to expand...


Roach,

Couple things, as I am currently in my build process - See my Build thread here

I haven't updated it in a few weeks, however I was going to here shortly so keep an eye out. Anyway, I'm not sure if your server, like mine, will be tucked away somewhere in a closet. If so, then personally I would not waste the cash on an expensive case like the Fractal design - don't get me wrong it is a beautiful case.

I ended up using an old Antec 300 case w/ a Coolermaster 4-in-3 cage for the 5.25" slots and I can safely put in 10 drives with more than adequate cooling. My main OS drive, a 320GB WD Black (Not SSD like my original post states) , is mounted to the bottom of the 300 case - it has one mounting spot. By going this route, I saved tons of money, especially because I found the 300 for $40 shipped when it was on sale by Antec (refurb) and the 4-in-3 cage was roughly $10-15 (can't recall).

Like everyone has suggested, go with a Supermicro board - I went with the X9SCL+-F

Dual Intel NICS, same chipset, and supported in OI.

I too went with the IBM M1015 for my HBA card and flashed with IT firmware. One word of warning, these cards can be picky with motherboards used to flash them. I could not get it to flash in the newer supermicro board and had to pop it in my Gigabyte GA-p55A-ud3 borad, which worked flawlessly on the first try. TypeRazor sells these cards here on the forum for $85 shipped (not sure if same price to Canada) but hit him up... he might even be able to flash the card for you before shipping??

Definitely DO NOT use USB. The likely hood of problems you'll encounter are far greater, than just finding an old 2.5" SATA drive for $30-40.

Again, I will update my above thread here shortly but I've ended up spending roughly $550 USD shipped for all my components; Xeon E3-1230, Supermicro board, 16GB ECC Ram - I already owned a PSU, CASE, and the Hard drive cage.

Good luck with your build, and keep us POSTED !
 
jwcalla said:
But isn't the OS loaded into memory and then once the system's up it shouldn't be hitting the USB at all? Or am I missing something?

It just seems like a waste of a SATA port to have a disk dedicated to such a small (< 5 GB) OS. :(
Click to expand...

Have you per chance looked at EON ZFS? AFAIK this is the only 'distro' of ZFS that will do what you want, i.e. install to USB and on bootup loads the kernel into RAM.

I um'd and arh'd with this very thing also, but decided against it as EON is an old build of ZFS and I wanted the latest (S11).

As to the build, not sure if you can get it where you are but I got the Akasa Infinity Pro with 11 5.25" external bays fpr about £70, and used 1x 4-in-1 2.5" caddy and 3x 5-in-3 3.5" caddies to give me hot-swop across the board. I then used 2x 2.5" drives for a mirrored root pool and 14 of the 3.5" bays for 2x 6-drive raid-z2 with 2 spares all connected to 2x LSI 3081e-r cards (total 16 drives). Using 2TB (1.82TB formatted) data drives I get just over 14TB after parity!

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/cases/230259/akasa-infiniti
http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=114
http://www.xcase.co.uk/hotswap-stoarge-kit-p/hddkit-xx-500.htm

I re-purposed an old server with Tyan n300b board with IPMI, 8GB Kingston EEC ram and Opteron 1352 Quad Core CPU so my build was relatively speaking cheap as these 3, when buying server grade, can total £500+.
 
Oh fun.

My supermicro X8SIA with Intel i3-560 supports ecc.

guess I didn't need to get the E3 cpu for the other box, but having a quad core is kind of nice though.
 
Intel's own motherboard manual says:
http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/server/s1200bt/G13326-003_S1200BT_TPS_v1_0.pdf

Intel Manual said:
3.2 Memory Subsystem
The Intel® Xeon® Processor E3-1200 series or the Intel Core&#8482; Processor i3-2100 has a Integrated Memory Controller (IMC) in its Package. Each processor produces up to two DDR3 channels of memory. Each DDR3 channel in the IMC supports up to two UDIMM slots. The DDR3 UDIMM frequency can be 1066/1333 MHz. Only ECC memory is supported on this platform.
Click to expand...
 
It has since been confirmed in other threads. It supports ECC but lacks a few features that the Xeon possesses.
 
Thanks,

i did a search but couldn't find much else. Any change you have a link to anything outlining feature differences?
 
sorry -- yes my i3-2100t does support single bit (standard) ECC on my C204 type SuperMicro motherboard.
 
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