SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

darksable

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According to Google Translate it says:
"FEEL THE POWER OF OUR CORE
With the NEW Intel Core i7 processor"
Hmmph. How informative of them. :p

It really ought to have said something along the lines of, "more power than ever before seen in a console-sized package."

Or, "look at the amazing things you can do with this amazing case - and if you need even smaller, our mobile chips can pair up with an external GPU and pretend to be a real computer!"
 

SaperPL

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It's awesome that Intel reached out to you guys! What exactly did they want the Sentry for, do you guys know?

That looks like a GPU dock and laptop in the background, so maybe they were talking about power density?

It's just as you see - intel wanted our case in their press room showcasing various uses of their new platform. I don't know what we can say more about this - it is what it is :)

Anybody feel like translating some Polish? ;)

It's just like asimplename01 said:
According to Google Translate it says:
"FEEL THE POWER OF OUR CORE
With the NEW Intel Core i7 processor"

The text above is obviously about the processor lineup itself and not directed at Sentry specifically :)

THEY LOOK AMAZING! GREAT JOB!

what CPU are they running on the Sentry?
Thanks, I believe the setup is i7-7700 + GTX 1070 + two intel SSDs in raid in the white unit while the black unit is just for the viewers to pick up and look from all other sides and it doesn't have hardware installed.
 

SaperPL

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I've got a little request to all of you - I'd like to poll you on your CPU platform of choice to get some data we could potentially use in talks with hardware vendors if we are to seek samples for testing and maybe cooperation.

Before deciding on your platform, It would be good for you to consider few things about Ryzen vs Intel:
- Ryzen 7 should give you more background horsepower if you don't want to close all your work while taking a break for gaming.
- Ryzen 7 should give you pure CPU horsepower for additional workload like streaming regardless of the task
- Kaby Lake iGPU should give you optimizations for specific software like streaming but that's not perfect for twitch right now
- Kaby Lake should give you more pure horsepower in gaming through higher clocks
- Broadwell-E is an old platform without support for many currently popular features
- Broadwell-E is definitely not recommended for Sentry because of 140W TDP
- Ryzen 7 benchmarks were made mostly in overclocking scenarios 1800X 95W vs 7700K 95W vs 6900K 140W, while we should be interested in comparison 1700 65W vs 7700 65W for Sentry
- Ryzen 7 benchmarks were made on fresh and clear windows systems, but AMD boasted that additional cores will prevent framerate drops that occur most likely on not so fresh and clear systems
- Ryzen 5 should be really price competitive to Kaby Lake 7600K/7700K
- More cores may be significant in the future game titles for DX12, but so far the changes to utilise more cores are progressing slowly on not so many game engines.
- Since Ryzen is fresh and new platform, the boards are currently getting bios updates and microcode updates and the test results may not represent final performance of those units, while there's not much to improve in Kaby Lake since intel's architecture didn't change much from last and even few previous generations

I've made a straw-poll for this here:
http://www.strawpoll.me/12466689
 

darkd

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I've got a little request to all of you - I'd like to poll you on your CPU platform of choice to get some data we could potentially use in talks with hardware vendors if we are to seek samples for testing and maybe cooperation.

Before deciding on your platform, It would be good for you to consider few things about Ryzen vs Intel:
- Ryzen 7 should give you more background horsepower if you don't want to close all your work while taking a break for gaming.
- Ryzen 7 should give you pure CPU horsepower for additional workload like streaming regardless of the task
- Kaby Lake iGPU should give you optimizations for specific software like streaming but that's not perfect for twitch right now
- Kaby Lake should give you more pure horsepower in gaming through higher clocks
- Broadwell-E is an old platform without support for many currently popular features
- Broadwell-E is definitely not recommended for Sentry because of 140W TDP
- Ryzen 7 benchmarks were made mostly in overclocking scenarios 1800X 95W vs 7700K 95W vs 6900K 140W, while we should be interested in comparison 1700 65W vs 7700 65W for Sentry
- Ryzen 7 benchmarks were made on fresh and clear windows systems, but AMD boasted that additional cores will prevent framerate drops that occur most likely on not so fresh and clear systems
- Ryzen 5 should be really price competitive to Kaby Lake 7600K/7700K
- More cores may be significant in the future game titles for DX12, but so far the changes to utilise more cores are progressing slowly on not so many game engines.
- Since Ryzen is fresh and new platform, the boards are currently getting bios updates and microcode updates and the test results may not represent final performance of those units, while there's not much to improve in Kaby Lake since intel's architecture didn't change much from last and even few previous generations

I've made a straw-poll for this here:
http://www.strawpoll.me/12466689
Could you please add option "not decided yet between ryzen and kaby lake"?
I'm waiting to see a good mini-itx board with onboard wifi. Additionally, I'm waiting to see how does ryzen perform in ~2 month when all bios, microcode and OS patches are out.
 

SaperPL

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I'd like to know how do you see this choice right now. If you're purely undecided then don't vote yet and research it more or wait for bios updates and OS patches like you said.

It's just for our reference and it's not something that's legally binding you to do anything at all :D
 

dam_j

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Intel is copying my planed build.
- i7 7700 (non K)
- EVGA Geforce 1070 ACX 3.0

But still no final thought about CPU-Cooling...
 
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beneken

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I'll use a i7 7700 and get new radeon card (5xx or maybe vega) once they are released. Until then I'll try to use my MSI Gaming X 1070 in an open sentry.
 

SaperPL

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FYI: We've just tested the Zalman CNPS2X after RMA on our i7-6700 test bench. Weirdest test result of all units:

dt19m0x.jpg


- Under full CPU load in Prime95 it quickly heats up to 90+ degrees. Not nice.
- While running Heaven it maintains quite okay temps of 52~55 degrees while momentarily spiking up to 68 degrees.
- It is extremely silent under full load - it is quieter than GPU blower fan and is simply intensively humming
- There is a slight problem with the plastic piece keeping the fan cables from touching the blades and it has to be pulled down because it may invoke fan screeching on full RPM.

Who should be interested? 95W? Not a chance. 65W? Only for gaming maybe? 35W? Definitely yes if you want a silent media centre PC.
 

SaperPL

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Here's an interesting viewpoint on Ryzen I just came to realise:

I couldn't find Ryzen 1700 vs i7-7700 65W tests but I wondered how would that performance difference look when we're talking about two CPUs being on par with wattage.

- In few tests we can see Ryzen 7 1700 being overtaken by i7-7700K by 12~22% and somehow 16-ish percent on average (performance varies in multiple tests though).

- i7-7700K has exactly 16,(6)% higher clock from i7-7700. Considering the 9% drop of performance on each 100MHz additional clock speed it's still ~15% perf raise.

Does that mean if we don't want to overclock and we want a 65W CPU, then R7 1700 is on par with i7-7700? Are those additional 4 cores and 8 worth the additional ~$50?
 

darksable

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That's an interesting point, but let me add the corollary:

In terms of heat management, if you don't want a 95W chip (and certainly don't want to overclock a 95W chip), then the r7 gives you a little bit of leeway. You can put a good cooler on it and overclock it just a touch, not pushing temps at all. At that point it seems like it has the advantage over a locked i7.
 

darksable

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As for what I'm putting in the Sentry, it depends. If the r5 ends up having a higher clock speed than the r7s, which could make sense, then it might tempt me to upgrade.

If not, I'm sticking with my ivy bridge i5 until someone can nail a 10nm lithography. (Though Intel seems to be really, really struggling with that.)
 

Morzy

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I would consider Ryzen but I already built the system I'm using for Sentry, I'm just housing it temporarily in a Air 240. I went with i5-7600
 
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Rysen

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I think in terms of temperatures the Rysen 1700 non X is the only one I would consider . Based on most benchmarks I have seen the X versions in order to reach the performance of the 7700k (which has a lower price) they would run at higher temperatures than the 7700k both at load and idle. That's why I decided to keep the 7700k.
 
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Morzy

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Ryzen does seem like a all around good performer for those that game and also stream and are a content creator. The 6800k and 6900k can offer this experience but that's.. yeah. If I was a video editor or content creator I would get a 1700 and just wait for AMD to improve upon it and for others to optimize for it and I would enjoy the heavily core performance.

I can see myself switching to Ryzen eventually until Intel pulled their head out of their ass and eventually gave us something more than they have as of late. at a competitive price that is far from what it is now... Or i'd just stay on Ryzen because really, it seems to offer a balance between content creators and gaming, as I've already said.

edit: My expectations for "good" are low. Hell, i'm using a i5-7600 and I'm blown away from the performance. My brother is using the intigrated graphics for Civ VI and he claims it's "ok" for now.. Yeah needless to say we're pretty casual...... Maybe I don't belong on this forum. <_<
 
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SaperPL

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The card you've listed is 307mm long so it'll might be a problem here... It is also oversized significantly.

I'd say to definitely not buy this card since the TDP is ~275W...

Also wait for VEGA if you must go with AMD since those should be around the corner right now
 

AlbinoWolf

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I dont really feel comfortable fitting a 95W tdp chip into the sentry after seeing some benchmarks you guys did, so I ll prob go with the r7 1700.

:/ I do alot of cad work including animating the parts I have made in various scenarios, so I think it would be good for me ~~ just waiting on a mitx board now from a reputable company that I've used before.
 

AJSSno1

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The card you've listed is 307mm long so it'll might be a problem here... It is also oversized significantly.

I'd say to definitely not buy this card since the TDP is ~275W...

Also wait for VEGA if you must go with AMD since those should be around the corner right now

aforesaid gpu cost 1400pln(~325usd). i am thinking thinking and thinking ;) maybe gtx 1060 from evga maybe reference rx 480 8gb from xfx, ryzen dissapiont me for gaming. after i recieve my sentry i must buy compontents. i cannot wait for vega and home version of ryzen.
 

Rysen

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I dont really feel comfortable fitting a 95W tdp chip into the sentry after seeing some benchmarks you guys did, so I ll prob go with the r7 1700.

:/ I do alot of cad work including animating the parts I have made in various scenarios, so I think it would be good for me ~~ just waiting on a mitx board now from a reputable company that I've used before.
Linus test actually shows that you can in fact run something higher than 95W and get temperatures under 85C so I think we should be fine with 95W chip with a better cooler than Linus used. Also the Dan's case has relatively the same size and many of its users are able to run 95W tdp chips for a long time. The solution will be eventually having a better CPU cooler like the one dondan is working on.
 

SaperPL

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aforesaid gpu cost 1400pln(~325usd). i am thinking thinking and thinking ;) maybe gtx 1060 from evga maybe reference rx 480 8gb from xfx, ryzen dissapiont me for gaming. after i recieve my sentry i must buy compontents. i cannot wait for vega and home version of ryzen.

Choosing between 120W GTX 1060 and 275W R9 Fury is quite weird... We're recommending 150W GPU - go with RX480/GTX970/GTX1070 or like you said GTX1060/RX470/TX460. Don't go with anything above that unless you really know what you're doing and picking R9 Fury simply based on the price while the card is a heater is not showing that you know what you're doing...

As for 65 and 95W TDP ~ just like Rysen said - it doesn't mean 95W won't work or it'll throttle or even overheat. You'll just get a bit louder cooler or higher temps but CPUs can take the latter quite high especially considering gaming and not synthethic full CPU load.
 

Veritas187

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I wonder why intel can't make a 6 core 12 thread processor without igpu with 95w or lower tdp...or maybe they might surprise us who knows. I'm sure when they reorganize their product stack like i3 4 core i5 4 core with ht and i7 6 core with ht and with tdp under 95w with decent clock speeds if anything ryzen has proven its true. Maybe if they just use i7 like a x99 chip with disable parts like less pci e lanes etc would be nice .
 

kirkclick

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I have a Sapphire Fury Nitro and I also doubt that it maybe not fit in sentry (Let's hope it can fit in...), by the way,this card is not bad, which performance is better than 480 8g and close to 1070.
 

SaperPL

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I have a Sapphire Fury Nitro and I also doubt that it maybe not fit in sentry (Let's hope it can fit in...), by the way,this card is not bad, which performance is better than 480 8g and close to 1070.

Can you measure the card from the bracket surface to the end and check if that's where 307mm? Because if it's really 307mm in this dimension, then you'd have to get some sanding paper and shave ~1.5mm off that plastic shroud end.You also have ~5mm of space for PEG power connectors which normally require 18mm of space so you need to get some really low profile angled ones.
 

Soularax

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I really want to support AMD and buy R7 1700 but no itx mobos from my trusted brands are announced yet...
And if there were going to be any, it'll likely be after Sentry arrives.
 

SaperPL

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I think that Biostar wouldn't be teasing mITX board by leaking the photos if they weren't pretty close to launching the production.

Apart from that we should wait and see what will happen when R5 and R3 roll out - it looks like Asus/Gigabyte/Asrock etc weren't launching mITX boards because they had their hands full simply with the full sized boards and going on all fronts before the bioses and microcode is are stable might not be their thing.
 

Rysen

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I think that Biostar wouldn't be teasing mITX board by leaking the photos if they weren't pretty close to launching the production.

Apart from that we should wait and see what will happen when R5 and R3 roll out - it looks like Asus/Gigabyte/Asrock etc weren't launching mITX boards because they had their hands full simply with the full sized boards and going on all fronts before the bioses and microcode is are stable might not be their thing.
Also, going by SFF Network Site staff comment I do not think we have yet seen sales significant enough for them to start making mITX . I could be wrong, just speculating. I think if we see any ITX from asus/asrock is going to probably be for summer or the end of this year when the other Ryzen lineups are finally released.

Anyways, have you been able to get your hands on the LP53 for testing on the Sentry or any new coolers for testing?
 

Morzy

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These companies have been busy for sure what with Kabey Lake boards and now Ryzen. Whether these new platforms are slowing them down, though, I would have no idea but I would consider it to try and make sense of my impatience if I were you.
 

Morzy

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Also, going by SFF Network Site staff comment I do not think we have yet seen sales significant enough for them to start making mITX . I could be wrong, just speculating. I think if we see any ITX from asus/asrock is going to probably be for summer or the end of this year when the other Ryzen lineups are finally released.

Anyways, have you been able to get your hands on the LP53 for testing on the Sentry or any new coolers for testing?
Yea.. That's another thing. Can we be sure mITX is their priority? Or do they wanna fill the ATX cases first?
 

AlbinoWolf

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But wouldnt releasing mitx be easier now, since bioses are soon ish mostly worked out?
Even if they are different, they must be somewhat similar.

Maybe its how to handle the x300 chipset, but like biostar couldnt companies just make it with the x370 chip?

I dont think it will take long for mitx boards to appear. Maybe a month or two.
 

Morzy

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Biostar could be trying to fill a niche market while other brands, like the ones you want, are busy filling the cases for other mobo sizes. I give em props for their strategy or at least their responsiveness to a new market.
 

Soularax

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I think that Biostar wouldn't be teasing mITX board by leaking the photos if they weren't pretty close to launching the production.
I spotted a couple of potential problems with that board already.
- 4-pin CPU power. Ryzen 7 takes up to 150 watts under load. 4 pins isn't going to be enough. Might cause stability problems or CPU throttling.
- No built-in wifi. Not a real problem but... why couldn't you.

So, that board is off my radar. Hope that ASUS, Gigabyte or other brands boards won't have these problems.

Apart from that we should wait and see what will happen when R5 and R3 roll out - it looks like Asus/Gigabyte/Asrock etc weren't launching mITX boards because they had their hands full simply with the full sized boards and going on all fronts before the bioses and microcode is are stable might not be their thing.
Probably true. Plus, they might think people tend not to put high power CPU's on such tiny boards.

I dont think it will take long for mitx boards to appear. Maybe a month or two.
Hope so too bro.
 
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SaperPL

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I spotted a couple of potential problems with that board already.
- 4-pin CPU power. Ryzen 7 takes up to 150 watts under load. 4 pins isn't going to be enough. Might cause stability problems or CPU throttling.

150W on stock settings or overclocked? And does this apply to Ryzen 7 1700 (65W TDP) as well? Can you link the source?
 

Soularax

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ViveTi

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I am one of the lucky backers eagerly awaiting a Sentry over the next few months. As a first time pc builder - am I being overly ambitious considering a GTX 1080ti? I see that the official recommendation is to stay around 150w but I am looking to use this computer primarily for VR
 
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Morzy

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I am one of the lucky backers eagerly awaiting a Sentry over the next few months. As a first time pc builder - am I being overly ambitious considering a GTX 1080ti? I see that the official recommendation is to stay around 150w but I am looking to use this computer primarily for VR
Welllllllllllllllllllllll didn't Nvidia claim it has better cooling than the 1080 and titan?

Idk.. I think you're tasking a unneccesary risk. ? I'm not very familiar with VR requirements but I feel like the 1080 ti is a overkill for ANYTHING right now save for dual or triple 4K monitors.

Though really. If you can afford a fucking 1080 ti, you can afford another case AND system(maybe you can have a intel and AMD build?) to put the ti in, maybe something with better airflow like Corsair 250D or something.
 

Rysen

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I am one of the lucky backers eagerly awaiting a Sentry over the next few months. As a first time pc builder - am I being overly ambitious considering a GTX 1080ti? I see that the official recommendation is to stay around 150w but I am looking to use this computer primarily for VR
You are not the only one. I am going for exactly the same thing and I already pre-order the 1080ti. I am not as worried as I used to be because I have a backup case so if it gets too hot in the Sentry I can simply only use the Sentry when portability is necessary and use the other case regularly.
 

Rysen

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Welllllllllllllllllllllll didn't Nvidia claim it has better cooling than the 1080 and titan?

Idk.. I think you're tasking a unneccesary risk. ? I'm not very familiar with VR requirements but I feel like the 1080 ti is a overkill for ANYTHING right now save for dual or triple 4K monitors.
Nothing is Overkill for VR. Virtual Reality requires many times to completely remove the use of Normal maps as well as removing other tricks that are most effective in 2D screens that help reduce the GPU power required. In VR you have higher detailed models, meaning more vertices on the screen than ever before. Also, in order to reduce anti-aliasing which is more noticeable in VR than in a regular screen you need super-sampling which requires even more GPU power. No GPU is too good for VR.

Trust me I am running two HTC Vives at work. One on 2 GTX 1080 in SLI and the other one on a Titan X Pascal. They are good enough, but not more than enough in some instances.


In other news dondan just got the green light from Thermalright so the CPU Cooler is becoming reality!
 

Morzy

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In that case, I hope the 1080 ti works wonders for you both and it's nice to know I picked up on the same backup plan if shit gets too hot... considering I am a complete noob. <_<
 
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Ej24

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.......Maybe if they just use i7 like a x99 chip with disable parts like less pci e lanes etc would be nice .
IIRC, the first gen desktop i7 was a totally separate socket, similar to x99, and priced up to $1000. Luckily Intel gave us i7's in the $300 range on normal platforms. Thus the HEDT cpu's, like the 3960x, 5960x and 6900k were born to fill the price gap, even though the same cpu as a used Xeon is cheaper. Don't tempt Intel to raise prices, they've proven they'll gladly do it. They've been pushing quad cores a huge margins for years. Thankfully amd just called them on it.
 
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