SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

danger

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b1IoZVW.png
 

SaperPL

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Hi SaperPL / ZombiPL , the newsletter has the launch time as "18:00 GMT+1" (1700 UTC), but the countdown timer on the website is currently due to hit 0 at 1600 UTC.

Can you tell me your timezone and post the screenshot or simply write what time it shows for you now?

I have investigated this yesterday and thought I figured out how this should work, but It might not be the case... The problem lies within getTime() function that's supposedly returning UTC time and yet I checked it really doesn't.
 

sdfewfe

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"Time left to the INDIEGOGO campaign" to me at first read as "time left until the _end_ of the indiegogo campaign". Maybe you want to clarify that wording, lest more people wonder why there's no link to the campaign and confusedly search indiegogo for it.
 

EdZ

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Can you tell me your timezone and post the screenshot or simply write what time it shows for you now?
Opened the page again, and the timer is now showing the correct time (ending at 1700 UTC). I am on the GMT line (I can actually look out the window and see the Greenwich Observatory!), so my timezone is currently UTC.
 

SaperPL

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I've added "launch" word at the end of the text. Hope that clarifies it enough.

I think I've fixed the timer now. It's quite weird how the Date calculations behave in js...
 

SaperPL

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Moment.js is your friend, Saper :)

I don't like to use additional libraries when I don't have to.

The problem was that, when you take time by getTime() it does get proper UTC time, however if you print it it'll show time in your time zone which is very misleading. And there's time zone offset value in Date object which I thought I had to subtract from the current time to get real UTC...

It actually works out of the box, however it's not that obvious when checking each value gives your timezone and people are arguing over how it effectively works on stackoverflow :p
 
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Ej24

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Hey Saper and Zombi, do you guys have a limit on the number of Sentry that can be ordered? I ask out of concern about situations like big gpu launches. For example it took 3-4 months for gtx 1080 prices to come down to msrp due to resellers. I'd hate to see one or two guys come in and order 70 sentry each, preventing everyone else from getting one, and then reselling them on ebay at $500 each.

I doubt this would happen, but with the hype generated following several YouTube reviews, I'm sure one or two unscrupulous people are now aware of Sentry.

Would it be possible to set a limit? Something reasonable like 5 or 10 (I mean, who needs more than that?!), and if someone wants more they should contact you personally? Or is this terrible scenario not a concern with the way indigogo campaigns work? I'm not too familiar with how these campaigns work.
 

SaperPL

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I think that there are limits per credit card for backers like up to 5 contributions or so. I'd have to search for the article on indiegogo that states this.

It is for two reasons:

1) Limiting credit card payments reduces possibility for campaigners to fill up missing funds with their own contributions.
2) People tend to forget about having the funds / limits on their credit card account so letting them take more increases this risk.

As for direct contact and ordering outside the campaign - I believe we're legally bound to ship to our backers first before executing other orders of this product.
 
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Ej24

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I think that there are limits per credit card for backers like up to 5 contributions or so. I'd have to search for the article on indiegogo that states this.

It is for two reasons:

1) Limiting credit card payments reduces possibility for campaigners to fill up missing funds with their own contributions.
2) People tend to forget about having the funds / limits on their credit card account so letting them take more increases this risk.

As for direct contact and ordering outside the campaign - I believe we're legally bound to ship to our backers first before executing other orders of this product.

Glad to know there are at least some limits to prevent resellers from buying up all the sentry cases.
 

RosaJ

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Guys my CPU vapor chamber cooler mod project worked!!! Photos are on my computer so I'll update post then but from here I can say I went from 98C on prime95 tourtue in 3 mins to 61C after 8 mins with the same C7 cooler fan at 100%. This worked so freaking well!!!

Edit:
 
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darksable

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Guys my CPU vapor chamber cooler mod project worked!!! Photos are on my computer so I'll update post then but from here I can say I went from 98C on prime95 tourtue in 3 mins to 61C after 8 mins with the same C7 cooler fan at 100%. This worked so freaking well!!!

...I don't even have words for this.

That's insane. Nothing ever makes that big of a difference.

Congratulations! Now show the rest of us lesser mortals your ways, I implore you.

Edit: So we need to put our hive-mind powers to work and either figure out what socket 200 itx motherboards are going to fit, or storm the castle of motherboard manufacturers and get them to design a board with what we need for the Sentry. (Hey, I can dream, can't I? :p )
 
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SaperPL

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I'd stop for a moment before looking at buying anything from kaby lake family.

Wait for ZEN - AMD cannot afford to ship something overpriced and at what we can see now their flagship competes in performance with $1100 intel extreme CPU but it has to drop down to price neighbourhood of 6700K for community to shift to AMD's side. IF that happens, then we'll have massive price drops on intel's side all over the board and real competition once again.
 

darksable

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That's a very fair point - even though there's poor support for mini itx on AMD's side, the shockwaves will still be worth it.
 

RosaJ

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Creating a new post as the edit got me frustrated.

There is a tl;dr at the bottom.


Apologies for not getting back the edit, had a rough draft but when I went to post nothing showed up and got frustrated. (Probably a problem with using mobile and desktop at the same time)


Anyways the whole process took roughly 2 hrs total. (Prep, de-solder old caps, clean the holes, insert new caps, check for fit, solder new caps, clean, then finally install the new cooler) This process could have been done quicker; however, when I was removing the old caps, the factory solder was very tough to remove and when I went to pull them out the "stem" broke off and blocked the hole creating a pretty flat surface which was hard to remove. The install of the CPU cooler was super easy, it's not final yet as I'd like to get shorter screws in the future and may look into actually bending them in a slight S form, but not anytime soon. With the screws tightened the cooler is one with the mobo, while holding the cooler I gave the mobo a couple jiggles and received no rattle or looseness.


Pictured below shows the diagonal screws along with the new capacitors. I can't get a good photo of the gap between the base of the cooler and the top of the 6mm capacitor, but it's extremely close, not touching but maybe less than a mm.

DzsbtTl.jpg


Here are the before temps of running prime95 with fan at 100%. I had to stop the test after only 3 minutes when the CPU reached 98C as it was getting too hot for comfort. Used the Cryorig C7 CPU cooler.

WdMT8XD.png


Here are the after temps of running prime95 with the same fan at 100%. I stopped the test after 8 minutes as it stayed at 64C for a solid two mins. Used the Dynatron R15 CPU cooler.

M0c6m43.jpg


Too long, didn't read: Replaced mobo caps to fit a new cooler bringing temps from 98C to 64C.

Link to imgur gallery: http://imgur.com/a/lSE8L
 
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iodine

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Nice job RosaJ. thats a crazy improvement...

i have some follow up questions, as i am pondering to try the dynatron cooler myself?

- I would like to know if you used the C7 backplate with the dynatron install? and what nuts you used on the backside? picture maybe?
- And also is it M4 bolts? or what thickness?
- Is there a reson why you didnt use some sort of washer on the top side of the heatsink?
- And does the C7 fan just fit on top of the heatsink with no modifications?
- Also nice screensaver, do you have a link? just saw Rouge One yesterday :)
 

RosaJ

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Thanks iodine, I appreciate it.

1. The backplate doesn't fit so I use the given 3mm? thick washers in place of the given backplate.

2. The bolts I used are ones I purchased at Lowes. They came in a pack of eight with eight nuts so I used two nuts per bolt. The size is: #4-40 x 1-1/4 inch.

3. Didn't have any washers on hand that fit (cooler fins got in the way).

4. Yes the fan just sits nicely on top of the Dynatron R15. In the future I plan to replace it with a noctua one with a clip like the L9-i and dremel a notch in the R15. (Linus did that for his Dynatron in a video build of the Dan case A4)

5. Here is something close to the wallpaper, had to do some digging as I've had it for so long I don't know where the original file is.
 

Fero

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17th wallpaper with windows background killed the system :D
Last question, guys. 'bout the price, how much extra should i pay for the shipment? I live in Russia, hope you will ship in it? Will the price be automatically calculated, or i must manually add some extra for the shipment? Can u describe the process a little more, cause i never before used an indiegogo or similar platform.
 

SaperPL

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Shipping prices are manually entered by the campaign creator (us) for each country, backers (you) just choose the country and it will show final amount. Russia will have the same shipping price as US below $30.

You can check out other campaigns to see how it works - you don't need to back anything, just check how the forms look.
 
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Good morning, I'm going to buy a sentry via indiegogo and wanted to know if the shipment will arrive in Italy and how long it will take! thank you so much, I love what you do!
 

ZombiPL

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Good morning, I'm going to buy a sentry via indiegogo and wanted to know if the shipment will arrive in Italy and how long it will take! thank you so much, I love what you do!

Yes, we will be shipping to Italy, and the waiting time should be something like 7-10 working days. As we said before, we decided to choose cheaper, slower package transport but with insurance, tracking and delivery confirmation instead of 2-4 times more expensive, fast shipping without those options.
 

SaperPL

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From the photos on the website it looks like the PCB is still the same reference sized width, but the plastic cover has slightly bigger "Windforce" text piece and this might be where the additional 3mm come from. Anyway 145mm looks like just perfect to fit in this case if it includes the whole pci bracket:

GPU.png


Note the 145mm dimension on the side. If it was measured anywhere else then card would be notably oversized.
 

zaskaraska

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Yes, I see the 145 mm on the size of the layout.

Tomorrow will measure the card myself. Hope it fits in that 145 mm, I want that case!

Thanks for the fast reply :)
 

SaperPL

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thanks for the answers! I have a couple of questions. if the campaign is not reached they lose money? and in terms of months when we sentry at home? thank you and excuse me for my ignorance
 

ZombiPL

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thanks for the answers! I have a couple of questions. if the campaign is not reached they lose money? and in terms of months when we sentry at home? thank you and excuse me for my ignorance

If the campaign will not be successful (if for some reason we won't get those minimum 100 orders), then indiegogo will give back your money. What is more, the campaign will last for 1 month, and in that time if you will decide you don't want to wait that long, then you can also get your money back. Indiegogo is refunding your money up to the end of the campaign (to the start of the production).
After end of the campaign we will need 8-12 weeks for production, purchasing components, packaging and filling customs documents, etc. As i said several times before, Sentry is not lying on the shelves. This is "to-your-order" production (like 99% of kickstarter and indiegogo products), and it needs time.
 

SaperPL

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thanks for the answers! I have a couple of questions. if the campaign is not reached they lose money? and in terms of months when we sentry at home? thank you and excuse me for my ignorance

If campaign target is not reached then all contributions are returned / not charged.

With credit cards it work like this: Card operator won't take your money until the end of the campaign, so you have to remember to have the money ready on the account connected to the card / be able to pay that amount. For my knowledge there's usually 5~10% of people forgetting that and depending on how card operator handles that, those contributions might get cancelled. So keep that in mind.

We need 2-3 months to start production from the campaign launch - 1 month for the campaign, then our metal parts subcontractor will need 1~2 months to close up their current orders and prepare full manufacturing power for our order.

We will also need to wait around 2 weeks for the funds to be processed and then 2-3 weeks for first components like riser and cables to be shipped, but that should go in parallel to waiting for metal parts manufacturing.

Our goal is to manufacture in smaller batches to ship those batches weekly or at least twice a month, and the shipping order will be corresponding to order of contributions (indiegogo stated that we will get that info when we get the backers data). Because of that the earlier you contribute to the campaign, the faster you will get the case.

By the way, there's also an upper limit of orders because if we were to slip-up in our expectation and manufacturing would take significantly longer, then this would mostly affect the ones at the end of the queue. So we've limited the order amount to something that should let us close up the manufacturing for backers in Q2 2017.
 

darksable

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It looks like we've got another great option coming for Sentry:



Thermaltake Engine 37 - 37mm tall version which is ideal for Sentry and it has fully copper base.

If Engine 27 is on par in performance with box units then this is definitely a huge step-up in cooling performance.


Huh, this is incredible. I have no idea how I missed this thing, but I'm off to go research it now. :)

Here's a question for you guys that I imagine a lot of us have been wondering. Let's say that the indigogo campaign is wildly sucessful and you end up hitting 1000 orders in the final hours. There are a few people who are bummed that they can't get the case, but then the second round of reviews comes out - now that you've got a production model, you start getting awards left and right, and people want a Sentry more than ever.

What happens then? Do you start a second round on indigogo? Do you decide to sell through your website and keep stock (or at least keep a stock of say, 20 units, shipping them out as you get orders?) Or do you say that you've done what you came to do and the logistics of continued sales is just too complex?

Just curious about what happens afterward.
 

SaperPL

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Huh, this is incredible. I have no idea how I missed this thing, but I'm off to go research it now. :)

Here's a question for you guys that I imagine a lot of us have been wondering. Let's say that the indigogo campaign is wildly sucessful and you end up hitting 1000 orders in the final hours. There are a few people who are bummed that they can't get the case, but then the second round of reviews comes out - now that you've got a production model, you start getting awards left and right, and people want a Sentry more than ever.

What happens then? Do you start a second round on indigogo? Do you decide to sell through your website and keep stock (or at least keep a stock of say, 20 units, shipping them out as you get orders?) Or do you say that you've done what you came to do and the logistics of continued sales is just too complex?

Just curious about what happens afterward.

1) First things first - before we think about what's after campaign we have to deliver product to the backers.

2) At this point we don't really want to go and sell directly through our website because this would mean we need to setup a shop and handle each order separately throughout the year. Unless there's huge continued demand of course - in such case we could figure something out.

3) There are interested resellers that already contacted us, and so far we've told them we'll talk with them after delivering product to the backers.
If we were to have such distribution, then there's two things to be noted: Case will be significantly more expensive for their profit and storage costs.
We'll most likely deal only with resellers that can pay up and order stock for themselves because once again we don't plan on handling each single unit shipping separately throughout the year from our own local stock.

4) If there's a huge demand and we'll be widely recognised, then we'll start thinking about making mass production tooling in long term scenario, but that won't be quick.
 
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darksable

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Fair enough. :)

I imagined the answer would be something like this, and it all makes perfect sense. (But it won't surprise me at all if you end up having huge continued demand. The Sentry is just that good.)
 

darksable

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So... Linus dissed the Sentry once again:


...you also get flexibility, 'cause we've seen stuff like this from indie makers, like the Sentry Case, where it was like, "Yeah, we have this super slim chassis" - it was actually taller, and you couldn't put it on its side without compromising cooling.

I follow Linus faithfully, and I like a lot of what he does, but I couldn't disagree with him more on something like this. This is what he's lauding:

1) A case that's as gaudy as something that small can get, with off-angles cutouts that are supposed to look like a stealth fighter. (Oh, and of course, gaudy lighting.)

2) A computer with an external power supply, meaning worse looking cable management and an absolute nightmare when it eventually dies or the cable breaks.

3) A proprietary CPU cooler that, well, comes out of a laptop and which is going to be noisy and hot.

4) A restriction on the length of graphics cards, limiting the user to so-called "mini" cards with significantly poorer cooling solutions. (They don't even support a 1070 yet.)

5) Laptop RAM.

6) Plastic and aluminium construction with tabs that will wear out over time, without question.
 

SaperPL

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I've seen that earlier and I think that Linus is at some point far away from what normal users seek in PC because he's got used to having more new stuff rather then reusing the old unless for the sake of some kind of video. Because of that he's more prone to neglect the fact that this kind of thing is really not future proof, but at the same time all of the electronic markets go in this direction where vendors make a planned ageing of the product.

What was not fair in his statement imo is the fact that Linus compared a low TDP CPU, low TDP GPU (1060 3GB) with his own test of our case on ultra-high-end power hungry components in terms of thermal performance, where our case is clearly not targeting the TDP range of components used in Linus's review of Sentry.

Anyway it's a different targeted product than Sentry.

As for the External AOC screen - it looks okay and the price is not bad, but you can pick up ASUS MB169B+ already. It's not my kind of mobility at this moment since I've got spare monitors at all locations where I go with the pc, but I might get interested in the future if more of those pop up.
 
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