SENTRY 2.0: Evolution of console-sized gaming PC case

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by ZombiPL, Apr 1, 2018.

  1. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    FYI: We've added the second tab to the compatibility spreadsheet to include current generations cards: Nvidia 20 & 16 Series, AMD R VII, RX Vega & 500 Series,

    Radeon VII doesn't seem to fit as it'd be really though to fit PEGs.

    We've got 56.4% of compatibility ratio in current generation as opposed to 60.4% in previous generation of cards (Nvidia 10 Series, RX 400 Series). Looks like the 4% drop is thanks to RTX card getting 2.5 and 3 slot cooling solutions.
     
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  2. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    Linus is doing a livestream with Sentry 2.0 right now fyi. .
    edit: He's doing a great job of showing why you should read manuals instead of just winging it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  3. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    I heard the guy from OptimumTech mention he will be reviewing Sentry 2.0 as well. He does really good sff work, and videography, I'm looking forward to seeing his review.
     
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  4. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    Yeah, I'm happy that Linus looked at this case since it will get a lot of publicity, but it feels like a half hearted effort for as much as he likes the case. I don't understand why he kept refusing to look at the manual. Linus also mentioned that Kyle (Bitwit) has the case as well. ZombiPL and SaperPL also follow JayzTwoCents on Twitter so there's a chance he got one as well.

    edit: I just noticed that PaulsHardware also received a case and is planning on doing a build which uses an AIO cooler.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  5. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    Idk about Jay. A lot of his coverage of sff stuff has been pretty weak. He's overly critical of sff and pretty unfamiliar with it in general from what I've seen. He's a custom loop water cooling guy after all.

    I'd like to see the guys from Hardware Unboxed take Sentry 2.0 through their typical 8000 game and hardware configuration benchmark marathon. They do good work.

    Or GamersNexus. They're not too used to covering sff either but do good, thorough testing.
     
  6. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

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    Some people like to see how difficult it is to build without a manual, from watching his video, Sentry 2.0 seems not difficult to build without it for a SFF case.
     
  7. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

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    In anycase, watching Linus building it makes me want the Sentry even more.
     
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  8. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    I'm just excited that it seems like significantly more people are able to review the case. I also don't actually know if he got a case; I'm making an educated guess.

    Except he didn't install the riser bracket correctly. It's not supposed to loosely sandwich the riser pcb without any support. The riser bracket is inserted at a low angle into a cutout and then raised into position like a hinge. Linus's way doesn't properly support the riser like it should. He also used the wrong screws for the motherboard and didn't understand that the extra piece that he had was for mounting the SSD that he gave up on.

    I do agree that it's good to see how difficult it is to assemble a case without the manual, but Linus just made a video that potentially a couple hundred thousand people will see where he assembled it incorrectly because he was being stubborn and didn't want to read a manual.
     
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  9. 4884

    4884 Limp Gawd

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    It's not difficult as the layout is pretty straight forward. But as a first gen owner I know the tricks to build it much, much easier and cleaner.
    He was doing it for the entertainment factor I guess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  10. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    I aged a bit watching it live yesterday, but I wouldn't say he was being stubborn.

    This, and there are few other factors here.

    One is that he doesn't want to do case reviews anymore as case vendors are throwing same cases with slight improvements year after year at him, so maybe he did it to scare off others at bit.

    Second thing is that he probably didn't want to spoil reviews coming from Kyle and Paul and potentially others with him doing a full build live correctly with his commentary before the reviews are live.
     
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  11. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    I found a countdown that some people might be interested in... http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/ It ends at 18.00 CET on April 1st. I'm sure ZombiPL and SaperPL will have more updates as the time gets closer.
     
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  12. fullvietFX

    fullvietFX [H]ard|Gawd

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  13. fullvietFX

    fullvietFX [H]ard|Gawd

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    If I don’t get a pre-order in I’m going to be pissed! Been following this thread for almost a year.
     
  14. fullvietFX

    fullvietFX [H]ard|Gawd

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    What’s the most powerful GPU I can fit if I have two 3.5” drives in there?
     
  15. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    There should be enough perks in the campaign for everyone interested. It's not going to be like last year's pre-orders where we were testing things with DHL and Paypal. It's because of that, that we are doing a campaign rather than simple pre-orders, because Paypal is terrible for handling pre-orders if you are actually going to make a product, and not be a retailer with a pre-order deal for a game release.

    Some people actually waited significantly more than that, then they did not back us on the campaign for various reasons, and are still waiting for the second campaign now...

    If you put a second 3.5" drive in there, you are limited to single slot card that would be above it. Note that fan intake will be partially blocked and pretty close to those drives.

    I think that 1070 Katana might be the most powerful GPU for it, you'd have to put a fully perforated PCI bracket/slot cover in the second slot though and hope it won't affect the drive directly under the GPU.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  16. fullvietFX

    fullvietFX [H]ard|Gawd

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    I didn’t even know that thing existed. Thanks man! Can’t wait to order this and throw my Chopin in the trash.
     
  17. fullvietFX

    fullvietFX [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah the 1070 Katana is impossible to find and wouldn’t work. There’s a single slot 1050 Ti but I think it might be over 170mm.
     
  18. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    Quadro p1000? Very small. Even with how small it is idk if it'd be able to breath though
     
  19. enex

    enex n00b

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    I'm desperately trying to fit I9 9900k into Sentry II. As I understand the cpu is heat intensive which requires AIO ( all in one ).
    Would Assetek help in that regard? ( https://bit.ly/2O4przb )

    How about Instead of Corsair power supplies I would go for AC-DC + power distributor.
    That means that juice comes from socket as AC gets converted to DC with HDPLEX 400W AC-DC ( https://bit.ly/2O2UaN7 ) and then
    it gets broken down into 24pin power, ATX, 6pin...with
    HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX ( https://bit.ly/2LjVJow )

    With this set up could I open up more room where power supply would fit and I could try cram in actual 240 AIO?
     
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  20. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett Editor-in-Chief HardOCP Staff Member

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    Please DO NOT use link shorteners in the future. We like to know what exactly we are clicking on.
     
  21. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes for 120 mm Asetek-based AIO.

    As for DC-ATX + brick, well, you're on your own here. We're making this case in a way it should contain everything inside and use reasonable hardware. So it's not made for DC-ATX. Also I checked just what you asked about for someone at sff and it looks like 120 mm AIO could fit where we have SFX PSU right now, but there's literally no good spot to fit HDPLEX 400W after you do this.

    We assume you either have a CPU intensive workload and are okay with 180W TDP GPU like 2070 in Mini ITX format like the one from gigabyte, or you need top tier GPU and you are okay with 65W TDP CPU and small air cooler. 9900K is simply ridiculous because it can pull way more than it's TDP of 95W.
     
  22. fullvietFX

    fullvietFX [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don’t think the 9900K is going to work. That thing puts out a lot of heat trust me I know lol.
     
  23. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    By the way If you are thinking about doing a 9900K build without AIO - stop and listen to these few words from der8auer (timestamp):


    TL : DW (5 seconds from timestamp though): 9900K can easily consume 150W on full load, with OC easily 200W.

    If you want top CPU power for some professional workload, go for ITX sized 2070 or something like that and put a AIO on 9900K if you must go intel route, otherwise I recommend going with 65W CPU, unless you don't really care about your build being loud.
     
  24. forScience

    forScience n00b

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    What do you want to use the I9 9900k for? It's kinda a niche chip and you most likely can get away with whatever you want to do with it using a lower powered chip that's not gonna cook in the sentry.
     
  25. enex

    enex n00b

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    Was trying to think outside of the box a little.

    Saper so 120 mm Asetek-based AIO and INNO3D RTX 2060 Twin X2 would work? ( I tried finding that doc sheet with GPU compatibility list but couldn't find it. )
    Yeah the intention is to really push the limits or find some way to cram the most power possible in Sentry. I' aware that small ITX sacrifice high end chips
    for small form factor due to constraints with cooling options or bulky power supply. (Like Corsair is the only one that makes smaller PSU but even those are big,
    right - when you look at HD plexes with their passive cooling and 2 piece design (AC to DC separated from DC to motherboard distribution.)

    FullVietFX oh yeah that is why I'm only thinking of AIOs. But in my mind if I could put that in and have decent temps that would be big win in my head. Like who
    doesn't want high end, or best of the best in small form factor. Right now we are still not there, but we are getting there!

    Oh Sapper never in a million years would I passively cool it. Interesting looking at Toms hardware specs and test for gaming in general thing did not cross 105 Wats under load.

    ForScience so I always had computers that were low to mid tier builds just based on the way that for everything I bought I had to pay part of it when I was growing up.
    So now I'm saving and I really want to build high end PC with intention to have as much possible raw power as I can. I'm looking at your Arma 3. ( CPU single core intensive game )

    So really it comes down to whats the best performance to cooling ratio for sentry II. Say we work with Corsair 600W + Asetek 92mm AIO Cooler (or any better cooler next to GPU) on unlimited budget.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  26. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    This card is on the list, there is a link to the product page on the list and the product page has specs tab. It will not fit along the AIO because it is a 196 mm long card and we have 175 mm limitation for card length if you want to use it with AIO.

    Also note that there's a little chance that you can get two fans withing this length limit because at such distance you will be better off with a single large diameter fan.

    If you want and AIO config, safest way is to go with current Gigabyte's lineup, also I feel like for a full length card, their lineup of Gaming cards with 3 fans (windforce 3X type of cooler) is THE reference sized lineup to go with.
     
  27. enex

    enex n00b

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    That is great answer I found blue hyperlink that links to spreadsheet. You know if you ever decide to improve website, breaking everything in their own little
    sections instead of all on the same page sounds okay idea to me. Good on walking me through if card is capable of AIO.

    I got some suggestions in regards to manual that you asked earlier. Page 28 shows shematic. Would be good idea to have mm labeled next to it or
    perhaps quote that all numbers are in metric system/or in mm or that there is no possible confusion with cm.
     
  28. deafboy

    deafboy n00b

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    This is honestly the first SFF case in a long time that has be drooling to make a new HTPC build. Absolutely love the simplicity/looks/form-factor
     
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  29. ZombiPL

    ZombiPL Limp Gawd

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  30. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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  31. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    ZombiPL and SaperPL sent me a case to review as well. I'm not fancy enough to have a video, but I'll put my review below.

    Disclaimer:

    I received this case to review for free, but the following review is my own opinion/thoughts and hasn’t been influenced by this. Since you aren’t able to buy V1.1 I’m going to keep comparisons between the two products to a minimum. I focus on low noise over low temperatures, so I’ve listed the fan speed associated with the temperature for benchmarks. Just because a temperature is high doesn’t mean that it isn’t being cooled well.

    Packaging:

    The packaging consists of a cardboard box which is lined with 20mm thick foam on all sides and is broken up into an upper and lower compartment. The upper level contains the body of the Sentry 2.0 case which is wrapped in a Sentry 2.0 plastic bag. The lower level, which is separated from the upper level with a foam insert, contains the stand, a magnetic torx screwdriver, power cable, anti-vandal power button, hard PCB riser, and accessories required for assembly. The packaging is really high quality and makes me confident that even if the package gets thrown around that the case won’t be damaged. This is by far the best computer case packaging I’ve ever encountered by a long shot.

    My package arrived in great condition with only a few small marks on the cardboard. The thick foam on all sides of the packaging makes me feel that the case is well protected from accidental damage.

    Vfdhw6q.jpg

    Assembly:

    I highly recommend that you read through the manual before assembling this case. A lot of the components need to be installed in the specific order listed in the manual. The instructions are similar to the V1.1, but some steps such as the new riser assembly have been changed and will require you to read through the installation steps.

    The case arrived completely disassembled, meaning that the power button and power cord have to be installed by the user. Having to install these parts doesn’t bother me since I always found that the power cord got in the way while building. I intentionally left fastening the socket of the power cable to the outside of the case for last as it kept getting in my way when installing the motherboard and riser. The number of screws has been reduced from 8 screws to attach the outer panel to just 4 which is a minor but much appreciated improvement. I wasn’t ever bothered with the old screw count, but having less screws does help make the case look a little cleaner. I don’t feel as though the reduction in the screw count has impacted the stability of the case; my V2.0 case feels just a rock solid as my V1.1 case.

    The rest of the installation went fairly well. I had an issue with the power switch interfering with one of the plug locations on my modular PSU, but I was able to attach all of my required cables. I believe that I could have bent the power switch wiring out of the way for my power supply cable, but I feel like this risks damaging the cabling. The power switch location is a trade-off to support an AIO liquid cooler so I understand why it's is located where it is. The only time that I really had to sit down and closely read over the manual was with the new riser bracket. The new bracket attaches like a hinge and must be inserted at a low angle before being lifted into place. The manual does a better job of explaining the steps than I can. Despite my initial confusion, I think that the bracket change is an improvement since it, in theory, should reduce the chance of damaging the riser even if you don’t read the manual. The build quality is still top notch with the case having a nice compact and weighty feel. All of the pieces come together to make this thing feel like a tank.


    For the record I plugged in the PSU cables all the way after taking this picture. I'm also aware that I don't have the o-ring for the power switch in the right location.

    h00ZBLy.jpg

    3W653yi.jpg

    I don’t have any 2.5” drives or AIO coolers so I can’t comment on how well those mounting mechanisms work but they seem well designed.

    Benchmarks:

    I said this in the disclaimer but I’ll say it again for good measure: I focus on low noise, not low temperatures. I’ve included the fan speed % along with temperatures since all temperatures will be on the high side. I never experienced any throttling during these benchmarks. Also, sorry for not owning many recent games. I tried to get a good mix of CPU and CPU loads for my tests.

    Relevant specs:

    CPU: delidded 6700K with a slight undervolt and a Cooltek LP53 cooler with a Cryorig C7 fan

    GPU: EVGA 1070 SC with an additional +100MHz memory overclock.


    Idle:
    CPU: 50c at 10% fan speed
    GPU: 45-50c at 0-10% fan speed

    Batman: Arkham Knight
    CPU: 60-65C at 36% fan speed. CPU usage was around 45%
    GPU: 85C at 63% fan speed Between 95-100% usage. 100% fan speed saw 73C

    Beat Saber
    CPU : 65c at 24% fan speed. CPU usage was around 35%
    GPU: 60-70C at 57% fan speed between 70-80% usage. 100% fan speed saw 68c

    Guild Wars 2:

    CPU: 65-70C at 46% fan speed . CPU usage was around 50-55%
    GPU: 68C at 40% fan speed at 50% usage

    My overall impressions:

    V2.0 is a solid increment on the Sentry V1.1 design. It’s not wildly different from V1.1, but that’s not a bad thing if you appreciate the design decisions in V1.1. V2.0 shows that ZombiPL and SaperPL took customer’s suggestions to heart by making installation quicker by using less screws, increasing ventilation which improved my temperatures by about 5C coming from my V1.1 case, and adding liquid cooling support (along with other small tweaks).


    The new hard PCI riser is a welcomed addition since it should be more durable than a flexible one (not that I ever had an issue with mine). I’m a little concerned that people will struggle with this step or just install it incorrectly like Linus did during his livestream. Other than having the user read the manual carefully, the only other suggestions I can think of would be to create a youtube video of the entire assembly process of the case (like what was done for the V1.1 case) or to attach a note to the riser bracket saying that it is inserted at a low angle and then swings into place like a hinge. I think the new bracket works well, but I just can’t help but feel that people won’t bother to read the manual and screw up installing it.

    My only real criticism of the case comes from the trade-off of allowing liquid cooling by moving the placement of the power button. I never felt the need to use a liquid cooler in my V1.1 case since I prefer full sized GPUs but I liked the option for SFX-L power supplies in case the size factor ever gained more traction. Since SFX-L isn’t very popular right now and there was a desire for liquid cooling I agree with the decision to remove SFX-L compatibility and add liquid cooling compatibility, but I’m still a little disappointed to see SFX-L compatibility removed.

    If anyone has any questions I’ll be more than happy to answer them.

    Edit: removed spoilers for better visibility of this post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019 at 9:28 PM
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  32. forScience

    forScience n00b

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    Is that 5C improvement on idle or under load?
     
  33. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    It was the most noticeable at idle since my fans were spinning identically between the two cases. Less GPU/CPU heavy games tended to have a slightly less temperature improvement but the fans were also spinning slightly slower. Games that had my gpu at 100% saw no temperature or fan difference but my boost clock was more consistent and higher.
     
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  34. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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  35. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    The case reviews keep rolling in:

     
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  36. fullvietFX

    fullvietFX [H]ard|Gawd

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  37. octagoncow

    octagoncow [H]Lite

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    http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/ has a countdown for when they plan to start the crowd funding campaign. The timer ends on April 1st at 18:00 CET
     
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  38. enex

    enex n00b

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    Thanks Saper and your teammate for sending case to so many great channels. Great job, love seeing all this videos. Oh how do serial numbers go? I noticed they are all around 500.
     
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  39. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    I'll just leave this here.... Full engineering sample review coming soon

    bdkQunC.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019 at 4:44 PM
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  40. ZombiPL

    ZombiPL Limp Gawd

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    You've seen Kyle's point of view. Now it's time for Paul :)

     
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