Senator Criticizes Apple And Other 'Corporate Tax Dodgers'

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Hmmmm, which would you rather have? Leave your money overseas and let the EU take it, or bring the money back to the U.S. and pay the taxes over here? I guess it's just a matter of who you want to take your money.

Enter Senator Warren on this side of the Atlantic. In an op-ed published in The New York Times on Thursday, the Massachusetts Democrat lumped Apple in with a whole host of "corporate tax dodgers," calling the EU ruling "the latest sign that multinational corporations are running out of places to hide from paying taxes."
 
Companies will just move it somewhere else. China, India, some third world country, etc.
 
Give it time and some Caribbean nation will become a hotbed of corporate headquarters thanks to lax tax laws.

And on the EU ruling: How does the EU get to come in years after the fact and try to hit Apple with back taxes when the country in question, Ireland, agreed to the low tax setup with the company? You can have good paying jobs and have all those now employed people paying their taxes or you can have high corporate taxes and make no company want to stay in your country. Ireland made the choice that they felt best suited their country and some dipshits that don't even live there get to say otherwise?
 
How about we start charging import fees on all of these corporations that have moved their headquarters outside of the US to avoid taxes. You want to use the resources/infrastructure then you pay taxes. You want to move your manufacturing and headquarters outside of the US? Then you are no longer a US company, and should be charged an import fee like other countries do to us. Corporations are going to keep abusing these loopholes until it is no longer cost effective.
 
I don't get it. In this case, the US was never going to get that tax money because it wasn't earned in the US, it was earned in Ireland. And Ireland made that deal with Apple if Apple would set up a factory in Ireland, which is the only Apple owned manufacturing plant in the world. That plant employs 5,000 Irish citizens and their paychecks infuses how much money into the Irish economy. The deal provides Ireland a solid IT business foundation which they have been working hard to expand. The have a PayPal customer service call center and I have seen a lot of indications that MS has some things going on there also.

This whole deal is about the EU being pissed off because the tax deal means the EU isn't getting the fat cut they think they deserve, and that Ireland is getting all the benefit, and the other countries aren't getting the IT exposure and development.

This has shit all to do with overseas tax shelters and avoiding paying taxes on income earned in this country.
 
Biznatch said:
How about we start charging import fees on all of these corporations that have moved their headquarters outside of the US to avoid taxes. You want to use the resources/infrastructure then you pay taxes. You want to move your manufacturing and headquarters outside of the US? Then you are no longer a US company, and should be charged an import fee like other countries do to us. Corporations are going to keep abusing these loopholes until it is no longer cost effective.
Click to expand...

Apple does not want to pay US taxes on hardware designed in the US, built in China and sold in Europe; they aren't using much US resources/infrastructure for that (and their US employees certainly pay US income tax). They do pay US taxes on hardware built in China and sold in the US.
 
Dwango said:
Give it time and some Caribbean nation will become a hotbed of corporate headquarters thanks to lax tax laws.

And on the EU ruling: How does the EU get to come in years after the fact and try to hit Apple with back taxes when the country in question, Ireland, agreed to the low tax setup with the company? You can have good paying jobs and have all those now employed people paying their taxes or you can have high corporate taxes and make no company want to stay in your country. Ireland made the choice that they felt best suited their country and some dipshits that don't even live there get to say otherwise?
Click to expand...

In order to be a part of the single market you sign up to certain rules. The tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in trade that you benefit each and every year from that market are weighed against accepting what is supposed to be a clear set of business rules. If Ireland isn't in the EU, Apple doesn't have an HQ there. Period. All treaties are give and take. The EU is running into the problem of countries no longer wanting to pay the big tolls for the massive benefit of membership, short-sightedness is trumping the long game. Ireland is no different, they waived vastly more in tax income than the benefited through those 6000 jobs. Like hundreds of times more. That would indicate that somebody other than Apple must have benefited a whole bunch when they made that deal.

Apple is also accused of tax fraud during the same period where no deal was offered or made. They simply set up an imaginary company that had no headquarters and thus was tax exempt so they could filter money through it. Ireland never agreed to ignore the fraud on paper, but they ignored it nonetheless, somebody other than Apple had to benefit from ignoring that sort of thing.

Bribes, bribes, bribes it's the corporate money go-round! Politicians sell the tickets, directors in lovely suits ride the horsies, while you and I "get" to pay for the tickets, pay for the ride, pay for the maintenance, pay the politicians salaries, and turn the crank that makes the damned thing spin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dgz
like this
It's obvious that some folks do not understand how a multi-national corporation operates and pays taxes.

In short, profits earned from business divisions outside of the U.S. are not subject to U.S. taxation.

Just another democrat pissed that he can't stick his hand in a pocket it doesn't belong.

Some of yall should go back to college and study something other than liberal arts.
 
Oh, yeah, those multi-national corporations aren't stupid enough to expatriate money from one country, where they already paid low taxes on it, back to the U.S. where they'd pay 30-50% in additional taxes. That's fucking stupid on so many levels.

These companies aren't "dodging taxes". They're not paying taxes on money earned outside of the U.S. which is legal.
 
Riccochet said:
It's obvious that some folks do not understand how a multi-national corporation operates and pays taxes.

In short, profits earned from business divisions outside of the U.S. are not subject to U.S. taxation.

Just another democrat pissed that he can't stick his hand in a pocket it doesn't belong.

Some of yall should go back to college and study something other than liberal arts.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Anyone who thinks corps actually pay taxes is delusional. The taxes always get passed on to the consumer.
 
Biznatch said:
How about we start charging import fees on all of these corporations that have moved their headquarters outside of the US to avoid taxes. You want to use the resources/infrastructure then you pay taxes. You want to move your manufacturing and headquarters outside of the US? Then you are no longer a US company, and should be charged an import fee like other countries do to us. Corporations are going to keep abusing these loopholes until it is no longer cost effective.
Click to expand...


Careful, you sound like Trump there. Globalists hate that.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Careful, you sound like Trump there. Globalists hate that.
Click to expand...


Ouch... Please don't compare me to that talking orange anus.... He's just latching onto stuff that has been said for a long time anyway. Corporations moving their manufacturing/headquarters out of the US to dodge taxes should no long be considered a US company and we should tax their products as imports. Then they can weigh the cost of that vs what they save in taxes/manu. costs and decide what's best. Right now there is no down side or laws preventing them from moving everything out of the US to cut costs (Other than china stealing their IP and flooding the market with low cost clones), so why wouldn't they? That is the problem we need to start focusing on, but not gonna happen with how much money they spend on lobbying/polical contributions (anonymous super PACs FTW!!!).
 
Twisted Kidney said:
............they waived vastly more in tax income than the benefited through those 6000 jobs. Like hundreds of times more..............
Click to expand...

Conservatively, 6000 x $50K jobs comes to 3 hundred million paid out in salaries alone each year. And I would bet many of those jobs are above that conservative pay line.

What did that manufacturing plant cost? What taxes does Apple pay each year on it?

How much support does the building require?

It's a manufacturing plant, how many components are made in China and shipped in and transported overland to the plant?

The EU's claim is 14 billion for several years. So are you so sure about your estimates?

You know, taxes are just a percentage of profits, and profits are what you make after costs. So you generally can't generate 14 billion in taxes without some serious revenue inbound, and a large part, the part that isn't profit, is costs. Much of those costs would have gone into Ireland.
 
Last edited:
lcpiper said:
Conservatively, 6000 x $50K jobs comes to 3 hundred million paid out in salaries alone each year. And I would bet many of those jobs are above that conservative pay line.

*snip for brevity*

You know, taxes are just a percentage of profits, and profits are what you make after costs. So you generally can't generate 14 billion in taxes without some serious revenue inbound, and a large part, the part that isn't profit, is costs. Much of those costs would have gone into Ireland.
Click to expand...

At $300 million a year all they need is 47 years to make up that irrelevant and illogical comparison. Take a 35% tax into that and you need a century. I'm sure the land was taking in at least $2.5 Billion in property taxes, oh wait, it was exempt! This was a "sweet deal" and an illegal deal because someone got some palm grease. Ireland was apparently sold down the river (it wasn't just Ireland, I'll explain later) because Apple was permitted to define the Apple-Only law by the people who are supposed to represent the tax payers. On top of that, "Much of those costs would have gone into Ireland." is just completely disregarding what Apple and Ireland are both admitting the structure of the deal was. Never mind the fact that the real issue is that almost all of this money was not taxed at all because of a massive fraud, not a sweet tax deal, and not some special loop hole. It was a violation of international, Irish, and EU law. The fact that nobody will go to prison over this is just proof that the code of law simply does not apply to the ruling classes and the difference between doing your sworn duty as a politician and being a felon is a hair's breadth.

Companies do not have a fiduciary responsibility to evade taxes and break the law as long as they can get away with it. They certainly carry an expectation that they'll buy the right to do so though.

It's OK though, this will take decades of stalling, it will cost tax payers untold millions more and at the end of the day Apple will have clawed the money back through the same tactics with another crop of politicians that want a show-piece deal and a little payola on the side.

The best part is that it's not the Irish that are the primary victims of this fraud, all they offered to do was help Apple evade taxes through a series of non-existent shell companies in exchange for that show-piece deal and a shiny building. The real victims are the countries where those profits were generated, those are the people that Ireland was complicit in defrauding. There is a growing will to tear this kind of conduct apart, the EU is only the beginning. As the middle class withering away in the western world governments are going to have to pay for infrastructure and programs with something, it may end up impractical to allow global tax evasion to carry on the way it is now. They have the power to do it, easily in fact, the issue is that these same companies are where policy makers go to work when they leave office.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
At $300 million a year all they need is 47 years to make up that irrelevant and illogical comparison. Take a 35% tax into that and you need a century. I'm sure the land was taking in at least $2.5 Billion in property taxes, oh wait, it was exempt! This was a "sweet deal" and an illegal deal because someone got some palm grease. Ireland was apparently sold down the river (it wasn't just Ireland, I'll explain later) because Apple was permitted to define the Apple-Only law by the people who are supposed to represent the tax payers. On top of that, "Much of those costs would have gone into Ireland." is just completely disregarding what Apple and Ireland are both admitting the structure of the deal was. Never mind the fact that the real issue is that almost all of this money was not taxed at all because of a massive fraud, not a sweet tax deal, and not some special loop hole. It was a violation of international, Irish, and EU law. The fact that nobody will go to prison over this is just proof that the code of law simply does not apply to the ruling classes and the difference between doing your sworn duty as a politician and being a felon is a hair's breadth.

Companies do not have a fiduciary responsibility to evade taxes and break the law as long as they can get away with it. They certainly carry an expectation that they'll buy the right to do so though.

It's OK though, this will take decades of stalling, it will cost tax payers untold millions more and at the end of the day Apple will have clawed the money back through the same tactics with another crop of politicians that want a show-piece deal and a little payola on the side.

The best part is that it's not the Irish that are the primary victims of this fraud, all they offered to do was help Apple evade taxes through a series of non-existent shell companies in exchange for that show-piece deal and a shiny building. The real victims are the countries where those profits were generated, those are the people that Ireland was complicit in defrauding. There is a growing will to tear this kind of conduct apart, the EU is only the beginning. As the middle class withering away in the western world governments are going to have to pay for infrastructure and programs with something, it may end up impractical to allow global tax evasion to carry on the way it is now. They have the power to do it, easily in fact, the issue is that these same companies are where policy makers go to work when they leave office.
Click to expand...


I want you take take just one step back from the problem and gain a different perspective.

The people who make these claims and arguments say all the big companies are doing these same things, and it's all to these same extremes.

But if it were actually happening and to the scale as portrayed, there wouldn't be a single functioning economy in the world. According to these arguments and others, somehow, the middle class across the western world as the only people paying taxes, which means we are funding everything, and we aren't being paid cause the 1%ers are the only ones actually making any money, and on top of this all these companies are cheating us. There wouldn't be a single functioning economy in the western world. It would all be bankrupt.

And call it make believe if you want, but I am closing on my second home at the end of this month, and no mortgage on the first, and won't be one on this home either. My kids both went to school after high school, one to Gnomon in LA, possibly the top Art Institute in the country. I'm not a lawyer or a doctor, I was just a middle grade NCO in the Army and an average IT schmuck as a contractor since. My wife is a barber. We work and we save and we try to make smart choices. The whole world has gone to shit but somehow, by doing what people used to tell me is impossible, we do OK.

My kid used to tell me her generation was screwed and none of them could get work, but her husband is now working and now that he is, he's getting head hunted and she's excited about it. My other girl's husband started is internship with Raytheon and he's been rocking it for over 10 years. My daughter was wrong, but she was listening to the same kind of people who pull together all these facts that don't measure up to reality.

Still, nothing in the world, not even privileged birth and "old money" can make up fo a lifetime of bad decisions.

Life i shard, it's harder if you're stupid.

(By "you're, I don't mean you specifically Twisted). All I am trying to say is, I don't buy into all of it.
 
We owe other countries money. Big "U.S." companies owe us money. Guess who gets to pay for all of it.

I'd be more than happy to see Apple fold up and move to China or whatever. I would applaud the news, literally. Wouldn't change my opinion of them at all. Microsoft, GE, AT&T, etc. I don't care. Take it and leave or move in and behave like you belong here.

Trillions of dollars of debt will make the accusations fly...
 
Biznatch said:
Ouch... Please don't compare me to that talking orange anus.... He's just latching onto stuff that has been said for a long time anyway. Corporations moving their manufacturing/headquarters out of the US to dodge taxes should no long be considered a US company and we should tax their products as imports. Then they can weigh the cost of that vs what they save in taxes/manu. costs and decide what's best. Right now there is no down side or laws preventing them from moving everything out of the US to cut costs (Other than china stealing their IP and flooding the market with low cost clones), so why wouldn't they? That is the problem we need to start focusing on, but not gonna happen with how much money they spend on lobbying/polical contributions (anonymous super PACs FTW!!!).
Click to expand...

There are $231 worth of components in each iPhone and it costs $4.50 to build one. It would cost 5% more to manufacture them in the US than in China. About 80% of the components of the iPhone are suppiled from outside of the US, so a 35% tariff on those parts would increase the cost of a 16GB iPhone by about $65. (source for all this) Given all this, how much would you need to raise taxes on US citizens buying iPhones to encourage Apple to make them in the US instead?
 
.... Senators acting like they can't do anything about...

As much as it sucks, it's legal.
 
evilsofa said:
There are $231 worth of components in each iPhone and it costs $4.50 to build one. It would cost 5% more to manufacture them in the US than in China. About 80% of the components of the iPhone are suppiled from outside of the US, so a 35% tariff on those parts would increase the cost of a 16GB iPhone by about $65. (source for all this) Given all this, how much would you need to raise taxes on US citizens buying iPhones to encourage Apple to make them in the US instead?
Click to expand...

I don't see how it could only cost 5% more to manufacture them in the US than in China. I'd assume that'd be much higher, cause employees would cost more to hire. Be it higher wage or added benefits. You'd probably also have to hire a lot more people, cause who's going to want to work over 8 hours a day doing nothing more than assembling a phone.
 
Tax heavens is a dying thing. If I was big nations, USA, Canada, EU, China, India, Japan, South Korea etc. I would simply boycott and embargo countries that support tax heavens.

Remember each time they do this, they cheat you. They dont pay for what they use.
 
evilsofa said:
There are $231 worth of components in each iPhone and it costs $4.50 to build one. It would cost 5% more to manufacture them in the US than in China. About 80% of the components of the iPhone are suppiled from outside of the US, so a 35% tariff on those parts would increase the cost of a 16GB iPhone by about $65. (source for all this) Given all this, how much would you need to raise taxes on US citizens buying iPhones to encourage Apple to make them in the US instead?
Click to expand...

5% is too little perhaps but close with automated process lines (robotics). However as such the iPhone could be made in USA or Europe. Even high paid Denmark for that matter for relatively pennies. Its not like 5$ or even 10$ extra for an iPhone would change much with their profits. So you are correct as such.

China is also getting relatively expensive to produce in with constant rising wages. Some companies already moved to Vietnam. This is also why China is having a robotic revolution currently. China is doing what western countries failed at. Keep production at home by increasing efficiency.
 
Biznatch said:
Ouch... Please don't compare me to that talking orange anus.... He's just latching onto stuff that has been said for a long time anyway. Corporations moving their manufacturing/headquarters out of the US to dodge taxes should no long be considered a US company and we should tax their products as imports. Then they can weigh the cost of that vs what they save in taxes/manu. costs and decide what's best. Right now there is no down side or laws preventing them from moving everything out of the US to cut costs (Other than china stealing their IP and flooding the market with low cost clones), so why wouldn't they? That is the problem we need to start focusing on, but not gonna happen with how much money they spend on lobbying/polical contributions (anonymous super PACs FTW!!!).
Click to expand...

Frankly, that's why I think I'll give said talking orange anus a chance, because he's not beholden to any superPacs, and frankly, I think he sees them as something that gets in the way of doing business. That, and once you catch a livestream of one of his events, you realize most of the narrative on him coming from the media is bullshit, and doesn't match the picture. He kind of reminds my of an old uncle who isn't politically correct, sometimes seems out there, but ultimately has some really good points if you can just suffer through the bluster.
 
Biznatch said:
Ouch... Please don't compare me to that talking orange anus.... He's just latching onto stuff that has been said for a long time anyway. Corporations moving their manufacturing/headquarters out of the US to dodge taxes should no long be considered a US company and we should tax their products as imports. Then they can weigh the cost of that vs what they save in taxes/manu. costs and decide what's best. Right now there is no down side or laws preventing them from moving everything out of the US to cut costs (Other than china stealing their IP and flooding the market with low cost clones), so why wouldn't they? That is the problem we need to start focusing on, but not gonna happen with how much money they spend on lobbying/polical contributions (anonymous super PACs FTW!!!).
Click to expand...
why not tax their foreign competitors so they don't have to leave the country and become a defacto foreign company to survive. Oh yeah, that would save jobs. Not the goal.
 
I have a suspicion that the Brexit bullsit in the UK here, will be used to manoeuvre the UK into a position as a new low corporation tax haven. The powers that be will slash it to 10% and sit back as the money rolls in.

In fact I wonder if this was the plan all along. Let someone make a fast buck.

Quite what the rest of us that don't work in banking and corporate accounting will do I'm not sure.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Frankly, that's why I think I'll give said talking orange anus a chance, because he's not beholden to any superPacs, and frankly, I think he sees them as something that gets in the way of doing business. That, and once you catch a livestream of one of his events, you realize most of the narrative on him coming from the media is bullshit, and doesn't match the picture. He kind of reminds my of an old uncle who isn't politically correct, sometimes seems out there, but ultimately has some really good points if you can just suffer through the bluster.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? He's litterally flipped on everything he said he would/wouldn't do when he started, including taking compain funding from superPACs.... As soon as he got the nomination he said he would no longer be self funded and started looking for money. So he's just as bad (or worse since he says/does stupid shit) as any other politician.
 
Biznatch said:
What do you mean? He's litterally flipped on everything he said he would/wouldn't do when he started, including taking compain funding from superPACs.... As soon as he got the nomination he said he would no longer be self funded and started looking for money. So he's just as bad (or worse since he says/does stupid shit) as any other politician.
Click to expand...

You need to do your own research and not believe what the media that wikileaks already exposed as an arm of the Clinton Foundation tells you.

To date, Trump has only taken $26000 from hedge fund managers, and has too big of an ego to listen to anyone but himself. That, and if you tune out the media and go just by what he's actually said, he's been extremely consistent this campaign beginning to end - the only thing that changed is his tone is softening to something more presidential, but sometimes the old Donald comes out here and there.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who supported Bernie before he sold out, so I had my share of skepticism as well. But if you ever even watch one live stream of one of his rallies with an open mind, you'll see it completely destroys the media narrative on him.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
You need to do your own research and not believe what the media that wikileaks already exposed as an arm of the Clinton Foundation tells you.
Click to expand...

Im against clinton as well, so no, Im not just eating up the narrative of the 'clinton foundation'.... Neither of the parties could have given us a worse choice than those 2. A douche and a turd sandwich.... Southpark nailed it years ago.
 
daglesj said:
I have a suspicion that the Brexit bullsit in the UK here, will be used to manoeuvre the UK into a position as a new low corporation tax haven. The powers that be will slash it to 10% and sit back as the money rolls in.

In fact I wonder if this was the plan all along. Let someone make a fast buck.

Quite what the rest of us that don't work in banking and corporate accounting will do I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I see it more as the resurgence of nationalism. Nationalism is as old as time itself, and then globalism came along and said "hey, lets all get along and sing kumbaya!" and people loved it.

Then slowly people started finding out not everyone wanted to sing kumbaya - some people wanted to kill all the singers, and still others were back in the shadows and wanted to have no nations so that way they, as a central entity, can control everyone.

So given people waking up to this, a lot are deciding "you know what? Nationalism worked for the most part since the dawn of time, so long as there wasn't a madman at the helm. Let's go back to that."
 
Companies that sell products in the US should pay taxes on the profits of those products sold in the US, period.
 
Biznatch said:
Im against clinton as well, so no, Im not just eating up the narrative of the 'clinton foundation'.... Neither of the parties could have given us a worse choice than those 2. A douche and a turd sandwich.... Southpark nailed it years ago.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I feel ya. Was going to Vote for Johnson myself, but Johnson is showing himself lately to be another Globalist schill.
 
Biznatch said:
Im against clinton as well, so no, Im not just eating up the narrative of the 'clinton foundation'.... Neither of the parties could have given us a worse choice than those 2. A douche and a turd sandwich.... Southpark nailed it years ago.
Click to expand...


Agreed.

Both are awful, but awful in different ways.

One is awful in a "perpetuating the petty low grade political corruption we've become used to in American politics from both sides" the other is "authortarian state type human violations and potential end times" awful.

I'll definitely be voting in November, and I have no problem deciding who I'll vote for. Putting a check in the box next to Clinton's name will be a bitter pill to swallow, but I'm not really boring for her, I'm voting against Trump.
 
I think its funny when the government accuses companies of being tax dodgers. They are only using the loop holes that the government put in place.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Yeah, I feel ya. Was going to Vote for Johnson myself, but Johnson is showing himself lately to be another Globalist schill.
Click to expand...

That's who I will be voting for, but Im in cali so my vote doesnt count as the state will go to clinton. So at best its to show that neither party has my support, even knowing he wont get elected.
 
evilsofa said:
There are $231 worth of components in each iPhone and it costs $4.50 to build one. It would cost 5% more to manufacture them in the US than in China. About 80% of the components of the iPhone are suppiled from outside of the US, so a 35% tariff on those parts would increase the cost of a 16GB iPhone by about $65. (source for all this) Given all this, how much would you need to raise taxes on US citizens buying iPhones to encourage Apple to make them in the US instead?
Click to expand...

Wait, you think it costs 5% more, so all costs involving the manufacture of iPhones from what? Foxcon plants in China, they only come to a 5% difference. The structures, the maintenance on them, the wages paid and all overhead, only 5% more?

I don't see it.

Besides, we aren't really even talking about sales taxes collected from the buyer. This topic is related to the taxes owed by the company as part of their doing business. It's their taxes at issue here, not their customer's taxes.

The "reason" usually offered by Apple and others is that the US is taxing their business too much, and their costs here are too high, so they have to outsource business elsewhere in order to compete.

So do a detailed study of Samsung's cellphone division in comparison, a foreign company in competition with an American business and see if it washes. Of course, Samsung has most of their components made in China as well soooo.
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
Agreed.

Both are awful, but awful in different ways.

One is awful in a "perpetuating the petty low grade political corruption we've become used to in American politics from both sides" the other is "authortarian state type human violations and potential end times" awful.

I'll definitely be voting in November, and I have no problem deciding who I'll vote for. Putting a check in the box next to Clinton's name will be a bitter pill to swallow, but I'm not really boring for her, I'm voting against Trump.
Click to expand...

Do some research. Hillary isn't just your standard corrupt politician - there is a body count that follows her around from back to her Arkansas days. Up to 48 now, and all connected to people who either dug up dirt or had something over on the Clintons. She sold uranium to Russia and literally, LITERALLY armed Isis (in an effort to overthrow another government). She'd sell her own daughter for a campaign contribution.

On top of that, she formed the Clinton Foundation as a way to collect foreign donations and parlay that into government access (pay to play, VERY illegal), and set up Correct the Record to control the message, a group that regularly employs shills to tar and feather anyone that has dirt on Hillary or is an impediment for her pursuit of power.

And nevermind the George Soros funding connection, who OPENLY says his goal is the destruction of all nation-states through uncontrolled immigration and the violence that ensues. The same George Soros who turned his dad over to the Nazis, helped his mom commit suicide, and called THAT period of his life his most favorite.

So for me, no, this isn't your standard politician. This is a woman running a criminal empire. Be careful with that pill you're swallowing. You might choke on it.


*Edit for the inevitable counter argument "what about Trump"

Trump has a pattern and history of being an asshole. But he doesn't have the wake of literal death and destruction the Clinton's do, and I am banking on one thing - Trump will be the right president for all the wrong reasons. He's all about himself and his legacy, and he can't have that perfect bookend by getting us into WWIII. But if he can rid the government of corruption openly and publicly, and keep people safe and well-paid by delivering on his jobs promises, then yeah, he has a shot of people regarding him as one of the greatest, which would feed his ego. So yeah, I think he'd do right by the American people for purely selfish reasons.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top