Seiki SE50UY04 3840x2160 50" TV ($1300)

Chief Blur Buster

Owner of BlurBusters
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If I don't get a panel to test (not planning on it), there won't be a voltage+timing profile for the panel. Without this, image quality will be really bad. Backlight drivers are a secondary concern.
I have a standing offer to Zis for free programming time to write a free strobe calibration utility (28" / 39") once there is dongle-free commanding access (e.g. DDC/CI) whether added by Zis or another open source programmer. Conceotually roughly similar to the Blur Busters Strobe Utility software I already have for BenQ/Zowie monitors. Commanding access to strobe parameters is currently under progress with a firmware upgrade.

Blur Busters policy is we offer to write free strobe calibration utility software (my own programming time) for any monitor with software adjustable strobe parameters accessible over existing video cable or USB cable (via a DDC/CI or USB protocol).

Strobe timing can be 100% crowdsourced (strobe phase, strobe length, strobe vs scan mode, and when it comes to scanning backlights, scanning velocity as it is sometimes favourable to deviate from LCD scan velocity -- balance pros/cons of full-strobe crosstalk versus pros/cons of scanning-backlight crosstalk). That's why I created the Blur Busters Strobe Utility for BenQ/Zowie monitors. :)

With the TestUFO strobe crosstalk test, it is very easy to manually calibrate strobe timing by human eye.

That said, voltage profiles (overvoltage boosts) definitely require device in hand for safety's sake, no way around that part....
 
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Chief Blur Buster

Owner of BlurBusters
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I know most of you in this thread have followed since the beginning, but this is a fun little writeup on the story behind the display. Some may find it interesting.
http://zisworks.com/story
Interesting backstory! Thanks for posting that!
You will want to turn the links at the bottom to clickable links.

Could you also make it open source in addition to free, so I, or others, can port it to linux?
The API should be open source and there's an easier way:

There are already command line utilities that lets you use DDC/CI on Linux, so it would not be too difficult to use a bash script, or use very lightweight GUI scripting (Python, etc) to add GUI sliders to a specific DDC/CI command. Technically, it's much easier to simply rewrite it from scratch for Linux. The DDC/CI serial commanding APIs are extremely different under Linux versus Windows, so might as well write a script instead to do the same thing. If you've done lots of serial port programming in the past, the use of DDC/CI is not too dissimilar experience.

But first things first. Experimentation of what the commanding is able to do!
 

wellston

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On a non-hardware mod related question, what's the best solution to 'smooth out' 4k@30hz? I tried an updated firmware and cranking down the backlight both of which seem to have helped a little, but that was more than two years ago. Anything better anyone has found in the meantime to improve at least the subjective impression of latency? Is there a particular firmware recommended? Did anyone figure out a way to make 1440p look less terrible?
 

geok1ng

2[H]4U
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On a non-hardware mod related question, what's the best solution to 'smooth out' 4k@30hz? I tried an updated firmware and cranking down the backlight both of which seem to have helped a little, but that was more than two years ago. Anything better anyone has found in the meantime to improve at least the subjective impression of latency? Is there a particular firmware recommended? Did anyone figure out a way to make 1440p look less terrible?

use your fastest mouse at the highest polling rate and maximum software acceleration.
4k 30Hz is fine for watching movies, bad but acceptable for production and utterly unbearable for gaming. ]
1080p120hz is where the old Tv shines.
there is no f way to make 1440p work, just f forget about it.
 

Chief Blur Buster

Owner of BlurBusters
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30Hz of any resolution is unavoidably laggy. In a 30Hz scan-out, the bottom edge of a refresh cycle is visible 33ms after the top edge of a refresh cycle.

This is also why 30fps@240Hz is less laggy than 30fps@120Hz is less laggy than 30fps@60Hz is less laggy than 30fps@30Hz etc.
-- Same framerate at higher Hz is always less laggy.

If the game can accurately mouse-poll 1000Hz independently of frame rate, that helps a lot in making mouse movements much more predictable at lower Hz (even if not less laggy).

At 30Hz, VSYNC ON versus VSYNC OFF have a much better difference. If you prefer VSYNC ON instead of VSYNC OFF, try using Fast Sync instead. In many VSYNC ON implementations, three frames of lag at 30Hz = 100ms of lag! Alternatively, try the low-lag VSYNC ON trick (use RTSS/RivaTuner precision decimal frame rate cap, and cap at roughly ~0.1 to ~0.01 below the decimal refresh rate number that www.vsynctester.com gives you) -- this removes the framebuffer backpressure while only adding one stutter every few seconds (for a good engine). This can keep remove roughly ~30-100ms of 4K30 lag if you were using VSYNC ON at 30Hz. Not all games will co-operate properly with this, but some games becomes much smoother while suddenly having lots less lag.

If you are using the same 28" Innolux TN 4K panel that is used by the 4K120 kit by Zisworks, you could modify your 4K30 monitor to do 4K120 with one of his kits.
 
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geok1ng

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If the game can accurately mouse-poll 1000Hz independently of frame rate, that helps a lot in making mouse movements much more predictable at lower Hz (even if not less laggy).

Behold fellow [H]: it is the first time over the last 5 years that Mark endorses something i said:LOL: Now just another 5 years to see an actual " you are correct" or " I agree with you":cool:
 

linuxdude9

Gawd
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I've heard the 39" Seikis are hard to come by now. I have an extra one that's barely been used. If anyone's near Dallas, TX and wants to buy it, send me a PM.
 

Chief Blur Buster

Owner of BlurBusters
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Behold fellow [H]: it is the first time over the last 5 years that Mark endorses something i said:LOL: Now just another 5 years to see an actual " you are correct" or " I agree with you":cool:
But you are correct about higher mouse poll rate than frame rate.

You don't have to wait 5 years. :p

And yes, obviously, properly-computed in-between positions too -- e.g. correct turning-angle (to allow gunshots to line up with enemy in crosshairs) when shooting while turning at a low frame rate -- otherwise aiming accuracy gets more granular / back-and-fourth erratic as frame rate falls like it does in many games -- all advanced topics beyond scope of this discussion -- but nontheless you are right that aiming is far better if you can poll the mouse independently of current frame rate and also compute intermediate positions in realtime rather than be forced to compensate for phantom-array effect (low framerate turning causing enemy to jump from one side of the crosshairs to the other side, with no ability to shoot in between frames while turning at low frame rates).

This more equalizes the playing field between high-framerate and low-framerate players (not perfectly, but much better). Basically the physics engine (and game motion) would be running at a very high "frame rate" behind the scenes (or even analog-motion, accurately fully interpolated) despite running at a much lower GPU framerate. So with a high movement sample rate independent of frame rate, an accurately timed shot, can correctly be able to hit an enemy that "stop-motion-jumps" (due to low frame rate) past from one side of the crosshairs to the other.

Along with subtle things like these, I'm paying more attention to the whole lag tosphere now in a great deal of subtopics. Related, some great stuff to watch is battle(non)sense's YouTube channel (he's authoring an article for Blur Busters now) -- this is in addition to other recent Blur Busters lag articles (Jorimt's GSYNC101 lag tests, spacediver's human-reflex tests, etc) as diverse subtopic coverage of lag in general.
 
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cirthix

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For people who want full 39" kits, the panels aren't easily found anymore. The best price I've gotten for a box of 7 (they come in packs of 7 from the factory) is around 300/panel after shipping.

I've got a 42" panel at my new place (moving back to the US in October) and I'll add support for it shortly after arriving. Should be able to offer 42" panels more easily.
 

EniGmA1987

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For people who want full 39" kits, the panels aren't easily found anymore. The best price I've gotten for a box of 7 (they come in packs of 7 from the factory) is around 300/panel after shipping.

I've got a 42" panel at my new place (moving back to the US in October) and I'll add support for it shortly after arriving. Should be able to offer 42" panels more easily.


Could you tell us one or two of the more popular monitor(s) that 42" panel you have comes in?
 

Zangmonkey

Supreme [H]ardness
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Anybody familiar with a desk gas spring arm that will work with the 39" panel?

I'd prefer clamping but I could bolt if necessary.
 

l88bastard

2[H]4U
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Messages
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For people who want full 39" kits, the panels aren't easily found anymore. The best price I've gotten for a box of 7 (they come in packs of 7 from the factory) is around 300/panel after shipping.

I've got a 42" panel at my new place (moving back to the US in October) and I'll add support for it shortly after arriving. Should be able to offer 42" panels more easily.

If 6 other peeps want to do a group buy on the 39" panels, let me know I am game for one.
 

Skott

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Do they still make the 39" panel models anymore? That's the question. If not then a group buy probably cannot happen. Not for new anyway.
 

MistaSparkul

[H]ard|Gawd
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I was able to upgrade my order to a Full X39. It's only $100 more than a Full X28 if anyone is interested and can't find a panel. It's limited to US only though.
 

EniGmA1987

Limp Gawd
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It may be only $100 more, but you have to decide what is more important to you. The 39 has better image quality and the size is pretty cool to work with, but it has significantly worse motion clarity than the 28 version. Even though both can run the same hertz, the slow MVA panel will streak more and that hurts the motion clarity. Whereas ther 28 being a TN can keep up with the high Hz better.

Though if you never plan to use the 240Hz and above settings and will just keep it at 4k120 then the MVA panel will probably be fine and only ever so slightly worse than the TN. So just depends on your use case.
 

MistaSparkul

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I only plan to use it at 4k120 and I still plan to keep my Dell S2417DG for when I really want better motion clarity.
 

geok1ng

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It may be only $100 more, but you have to decide what is more important to you. The 39 has better image quality and the size is pretty cool to work with, but it has significantly worse motion clarity than the 28 version. Even though both can run the same hertz, the slow MVA panel will streak more and that hurts the motion clarity. Whereas ther 28 being a TN can keep up with the high Hz better.

Though if you never plan to use the 240Hz and above settings and will just keep it at 4k120 then the MVA panel will probably be fine and only ever so slightly worse than the TN. So just depends on your use case.

One can only reach such conclusions after the blurbusters review is done. keep in mind that both kits have scanning and strobing modes, so at 4k 120hz both panels will have excellent motion clarity anyway. at 240/480Hz the TN has a chance to behave better, but who pays $750 to game at 1080p?
 

cirthix

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One can only reach such conclusions after the blurbusters review is done. keep in mind that both kits have scanning and strobing modes, so at 4k 120hz both panels will have excellent motion clarity anyway. at 240/480Hz the TN has a chance to behave better, but who pays $750 to game at 1080p?

To add some extra confusion to this, the picture that I had posted showing the 39" panel running one of the blurbusters tests in scanning mode is actually incorrect.

The picture here :
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=WGdEZlRyQkdVeGRtbGphSEpubWJBWUcydS14YlFB

Is using the wrong illumination order, that's why it has a double-exposure looking effect.

There are 8 zones of illumination on the 39", with 1 at the top and 8 at the bottom. Because there are only 6 control lines on the led driver chip, I'm using four pairs instead of 8 individual strings. The order used for this picture was not 1+2, 3+4, 5+6, 7+8 as a proper scan would be, it was instead 1+5, 2+6, 3+7, 4+8.

Because the 39" uses a flat-flex connection, it is much harder to fix the incorrect pairing on the old backlight driver. The string pairing has been fixed in the newer backlight, will retake the picture when the boards arrive.
 
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geok1ng

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Great job cirthix!

So, what does a dummy like me, who owns a Seiki se39uy04, but doesn't understand all of the technical bits, do to transform his monitor into a 4k120hz one?

I have the kind of technical skill necessary to take a monitor apart and do what needs to be done (I fixed my little Qnix myself by de-soldering and replacing a faulty transistor), but I don't really understand all this stuff about Tcon, Dp2lvds, etc.

Would just like to know, in the simplest fashion (eli5), what I would need to do to turn my 4k 39" Seiki into a 120hz 4k 39" Seiki lol.

s'il vous plait

:)
 

geok1ng

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cirthix promised there would be no soldering, just basic static protection measures and cable connections. i have the soldering skills of a blind rhyno
 
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cirthix promised there would be no soldering, just basic static protection measures and cable connections. i have the soldering skills of a blind rhyno
Thanks for that. I guess I mean, is what I need available now? I've been to the ZisWorks site and not sure what to order.
Would I order the entire 39” no panel kit?

Also, will these be available on an ongoing basis? As much as I'd love to shell out that cold, hard, chedda right now, Christmas is coming up and I have a Family of 5 I have to buy for (and I am not quite rich, yet [gotta keep my options open ;)]).
 
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contact zisworks. this forum has rules and purpose, and being a sales channel is probably not one of them.
I thought I would ask here so that my question (and subsequent response) could perhaps benefit others on the forum who aren't sure what to do.
Also, given the fact that cithrix is frequently on this thread, and of late this thread has centered around the topic of his work, I am curious why you would you find a problem with me asking for some advice through a public channel?
I mean, if you can't be helpful then that is ok, but there is no need for you to act authoritatively over it.
 

geok1ng

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what does a dummy like me, who owns a Seiki se39uy04

do to transform his monitor into a 4k120hz one?
order a 39 kit, no panel

is what I need available now?
noy exactly. you paypal upfront, receive when available

will these be available on an ongoing basis?
nope. these are limited production runs, if out of the first batch, it will be least many weeks before anorther batch is ready

Christmas is coming up and I have a Family of 5 I have to buy for
family comes first. a mafia wisdom that i never regret using on my personal decisions
 
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Thank you geok1ng. I had expected these to be limited production runs, but hope ZisWorks will continue to make more batches available as we move forwards. At least for a few months! :D
 

geok1ng

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the kits will probably add more panels to the compatibility list. the product needs a cheap panel still in production to become viable. and sooner or later move towards quantum dots panels as well
 

geok1ng

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i doubt we will have OLED panels on the cheap for DiY projects anytime soon. now quantum dots, it is a matter of weeks before low cost korean brands start dumping those on ebay
 

l88bastard

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i doubt we will have OLED panels on the cheap for DiY projects anytime soon. now quantum dots, it is a matter of weeks before low cost korean brands start dumping those on ebay


Who said anything about cheap? I have two LG OLED 55C6's that I would love to sell since I now have a 55C7, but craigslisting them at any price point greater than $800 is neigh impossible. Being able to buy a 4K120 kit for them would pretty much make them priceless IMHO
 

Vega

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Who said anything about cheap? I have two LG OLED 55C6's that I would love to sell since I now have a 55C7, but craigslisting them at any price point greater than $800 is neigh impossible. Being able to buy a 4K120 kit for them would pretty much make them priceless IMHO

tenor.gif
 

portalgun

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i doubt we will have OLED panels on the cheap for DiY projects anytime soon. now quantum dots, it is a matter of weeks before low cost korean brands start dumping those on ebay

As long as it's 35 inches or greater sign me up for one of those. That sounds like monitor perfection for me.
 
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