I've had some problems with the vx1 board, working on fixing it.
With the orignal lvds tcon, I was able to get it to overclock a little. 39Hz@4k, 135Hz@1080p.
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Seiki SE50UY04 3840x2160 50" TV ($1300)
- Thread starter houkouonchi
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I've had some problems with the vx1 board, working on fixing it.
With the orignal lvds tcon, I was able to get it to overclock a little. 39Hz@4k, 135Hz@1080p.
brainfried
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Any updates? 
Any updates?
The Vx1 board has some problems, need to make a new version. It is really unstable and difficult to test.
It does mostly work with the popular 28" 4k panel (M280DGJ-L30) at 4k60, but fails to lock properly with the 39" panel
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I take that back entirely. Both Vx1 boards that I populated had assembly issues that were similar enough to make it look like a desgin problem.
I can now confirm that 4k60 on the 39" panel is working beautifully.
Additionally, I should have 10x DP1.2 boards (the ones with the new chips) in a week's time for further testing purposes.
4k60+1080p120 are both supported by this TCON, need to make a bunch of firmware changes in order to support the swap. As expected, overclocking is not successful with this TCON.
What does this all mean to you? The design works and will be available for sale at some point in the near future (~1month). This mod will be useable on any display using V390DK1-LS1 such as the SE39UY04 with a TCON swap, or with the 42" seiki 4k (don't remember the model number, but it was cheap and had enormous lag) without a tcon swap.
Now that I have Vx1 solutions working, I will also push forward with 4k120 for those with 16-lane vx1 panels.
Some pictures: First one is with the DVI board which does not support 4k. It is great for testing since it is much more reliable, but the internal linebuffer is only 2560 pixels wide, so it does funny things when given a 4k signal. The output signal is always correct with regards to timings, but some data is replaced with garbage (that big green stripe) and other data is moved around from wrapping through the address space. The second picture shows operation with the DP board, though the old chips are unstable and difficult to test with.
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suiken_2mieu
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What's the cost of the boards looking like? I'm wondering if it's cheaper to buy seiki's and mod them, rather than going wasabi mango.
brainfried
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Great news! Thanks for the update!
Got the new DP chips two days ago, system is mostly working.
The to-do list is as follows:
push minor hardware fixes to final design
modify firmware to enable 10bpc support
modify firmware to enable 1080p120 support
test with higher quality vx1 cable (minor artifacts occasionally)
use it for a while to test
The to-do list is as follows:
push minor hardware fixes to final design
modify firmware to enable 10bpc support
modify firmware to enable 1080p120 support
test with higher quality vx1 cable (minor artifacts occasionally)
use it for a while to test
Hi Cirthix,
Just registered to congratz you and to say you that I'm in to buy your solution once finished.
BTW, I need to connect 2 computers to the screen, my gaming one and my home server (which only manage 4k30).
I suspect your solution to only have one input, so may I ask you if you know something like a DP doubler?
Thank you!
Just registered to congratz you and to say you that I'm in to buy your solution once finished.
BTW, I need to connect 2 computers to the screen, my gaming one and my home server (which only manage 4k30).
I suspect your solution to only have one input, so may I ask you if you know something like a DP doubler?
Thank you!
i am not convinced that 10bpc is a must for the board. Sure , it is nice to use all the panel capabilities, but 10bpc is only available in professional cards, which are not used for gaming at 120hz . also 10bpc helps most over wide gamut panel, and this panel is "only" 100% sRGB. do not lose sleep over 10bpc support.
EDIT: AMD added 10 bit color options to the Radeon line if the display supports it, but Adobe Photoshop won't allow 10 bit with Radeon cards, even when the color depth is set to 10bpc.
EDIT: AMD added 10 bit color options to the Radeon line if the display supports it, but Adobe Photoshop won't allow 10 bit with Radeon cards, even when the color depth is set to 10bpc.
An update:
I've been playing around with the 4k60 setup and think that it is a little too complicated. There are seven video chips involved.
Additionally, the tcon that I was using is very limited in what timings it supports, meaning no freesync, no overclocking. It also feels kind of laggy even though MEMC is disabled in the tcon. Basically, I don't like it, though it looks great.
I've also been playing around with some other ideas and think that it is in my best interest to dive into FPGAs in order to stay relevant.
Combining these two, I have decided to make an fpga based tcon for this panel. There *are* other fpga based tcons for this panel from various chinese vendors, but they are using older fpgas with narrow interfaces. I bought one of these to play around with and am currently in the process of trying to write a new firmware for it as a first-step towards making my own (already extracted the pinout).
I've also gone through a number of innolux TCONs and figured out the two 80-pin connector pinouts and familiarized myself with all of the necessary signals through probing running systems and piecing together information from other sources. I have experience designing with the zynq-7 which is a similar chip, so things are moving pretty quickly.
With all of this new information, I started on the hardware design for the new tcon (about halfway done with it now). It is based on the artix-7 XC7A15T-1FTG256C, input is 2/4/8ch LVDS, outputs will run 4k120 to 28" TN, 39" MVA, 42" MVA, and 50" MVA from innolux. There is also the possibility of implementing line-doubling on the glass to run it at 1080p240 (actually 3840*1080).
The overall cost of this soltuion is only about $10-15 higher than previously and it will be much more capable.
If you have relevent fpga experience, I could use some help. Email.
Here is the work-in-progress
I've been playing around with the 4k60 setup and think that it is a little too complicated. There are seven video chips involved.
Additionally, the tcon that I was using is very limited in what timings it supports, meaning no freesync, no overclocking. It also feels kind of laggy even though MEMC is disabled in the tcon. Basically, I don't like it, though it looks great.
I've also been playing around with some other ideas and think that it is in my best interest to dive into FPGAs in order to stay relevant.
Combining these two, I have decided to make an fpga based tcon for this panel. There *are* other fpga based tcons for this panel from various chinese vendors, but they are using older fpgas with narrow interfaces. I bought one of these to play around with and am currently in the process of trying to write a new firmware for it as a first-step towards making my own (already extracted the pinout).
I've also gone through a number of innolux TCONs and figured out the two 80-pin connector pinouts and familiarized myself with all of the necessary signals through probing running systems and piecing together information from other sources. I have experience designing with the zynq-7 which is a similar chip, so things are moving pretty quickly.
With all of this new information, I started on the hardware design for the new tcon (about halfway done with it now). It is based on the artix-7 XC7A15T-1FTG256C, input is 2/4/8ch LVDS, outputs will run 4k120 to 28" TN, 39" MVA, 42" MVA, and 50" MVA from innolux. There is also the possibility of implementing line-doubling on the glass to run it at 1080p240 (actually 3840*1080).
The overall cost of this soltuion is only about $10-15 higher than previously and it will be much more capable.
If you have relevent fpga experience, I could use some help. Email
.Here is the work-in-progress
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suiken_2mieu
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Holy crap bro, that's more capable then anything on the market.
Now that it's FPGA it's basically a nice freebie. Adobe will eventually add it in - when they can figure out how to extract even more $$$ as a result.
Heck if FreeSync works this well probably end up being the "Enthusiast" solution for 120hz PC TV. Programming on this whilst occasionally gaming =
Time to market is a relevant metric of value.
10bpc is useless for a 100% sRGB panel;
1080p240Hz is useless for a VA panel, artifacts start around 140Hz, so 1080p120hz is plenty enough
Freesync helps, but can be added in a later firmware.
Now 4k120Hz? That is THE nerdgasm we are looking forward.
10bpc is useless for a 100% sRGB panel;
1080p240Hz is useless for a VA panel, artifacts start around 140Hz, so 1080p120hz is plenty enough
Freesync helps, but can be added in a later firmware.
Now 4k120Hz? That is THE nerdgasm we are looking forward.
Malinkadink
n00b
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Sign me up for 4k 120hz please
RangerXML
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Hey, I haven't been keeping track of this thread for a while now and now I see people talking about modding their Seiki! How will this board work, replace the one in the TV, will I need to add a DP port?
Mine in my office
:
Mine in my office
:
brainfried
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Looks like an expensive FPGA...
You work fast. I can't wait to see this in action.
Malinkadink
n00b
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Any new updates?
Any new updates?
I held off on ordering the the boards for a few days to hear what my contact at Innolux has to say. The PCB alone for the prototype (low qty stuff in electronics is priced really high) is about $250, so I don't want to rush things.
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Time to market is relevant: the first 4k120Hz OLED is coming and the 38" with a strobing backlight from LG is on pre-order. By Q2-2017 there will be sub$1000 monitors with 120Hz, maybe sooner. This board can get a big chunck of those potential sales if it comes out first: people will hunt compatible panels instead of waiting to pay many times more.
I'm a one-man-shop with a 2-month-old kid. I can only work so fast.
Also, very little manufacturer support makes things difficult.
And the 240hz overclocked displays got like 5 sales.
At least the NDA with AMD is finalized and I can do freesync testing (the panel that I'm using for 240Hz doesn't play nicely with it, but the dvi board seems to work)
If someone wants to help, find+send the datasheet for an innolux CELL type UHD panel (meaning that it describes panel without a backlight or tcon). I believe that all of the smaller (<~55") use the 2x80pin connections.
example:
CHIMEI INNOLUX M280DGJ-Q02 Overview - Panelook.com
or really any on this list:
Innolux 3840×2160 TFT CELL, FOG, COG List (41 models) - Panelook.com
Still haven't ordered the boards since there is no advantage to doing so yet. Checking against a cell type datasheet could potentially reveal errors in my reverse engineering, which would be nice to know about before making the board.
Waiting until the firmware (about 60% done) is working in simulation for the board order won't add any real delay to the product, as nice as it is to have something to look at.
Also, very little manufacturer support makes things difficult.
And the 240hz overclocked displays got like 5 sales.
At least the NDA with AMD is finalized and I can do freesync testing (the panel that I'm using for 240Hz doesn't play nicely with it, but the dvi board seems to work)
If someone wants to help, find+send the datasheet for an innolux CELL type UHD panel (meaning that it describes panel without a backlight or tcon). I believe that all of the smaller (<~55") use the 2x80pin connections.
example:
CHIMEI INNOLUX M280DGJ-Q02 Overview - Panelook.com
or really any on this list:
Innolux 3840×2160 TFT CELL, FOG, COG List (41 models) - Panelook.com
Still haven't ordered the boards since there is no advantage to doing so yet. Checking against a cell type datasheet could potentially reveal errors in my reverse engineering, which would be nice to know about before making the board.
Waiting until the firmware (about 60% done) is working in simulation for the board order won't add any real delay to the product, as nice as it is to have something to look at.
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Vega is not as confident as me on this Tcon.
Very interesting. Will you be configuring 2x4 DP 1.2 lanes into 8 channel LVDS to get 4K120? Would this be at min 8-bit color? Curious about the Artix-7 as it says it can run up to sixteen 6.6 Gb/s channels.
I'm really curious on the connectivity from the GPU to the LVDS...
From my research I haven't been able to find any mention of DP 1.3/1.4 TCon's from Paradetech, NXP, Xilinix, Chmei etc. Really if they are having trouble producing these new spec TCon's I wish someone would just release a damn MST 4K120 display with dual DP 1.2 ports like the Dell 5K.
This tcon has 8ch lvds input and can handle some mismatch. It will take a pair of either my DP1.2, a pair of my DLDVI, or an unreleased DLDVI (the unreleased one uses HDMI2.0 based chips to take 6G*2 over DLDVI) to push 4k120 to the tcon. DP1.3 stuff just isnt ready yet from waht I've seen.
Ah cool, I'm very interested. Anything special you think would be needed on the AMD/NVIDIA driver side? Would the GPU's just see two 1920x2160 displays running at 120 Hz? I can't remember if the NVIDIA driver was specifically tweaked for the Dell 5K to get it to work seamlessly as "one display" via dual DP 1.2 inputs.
He just signed a NDA with AMD to get freesync support.
About taking dual DP 1.2, as long as it is possible to run 4k over a single DP 1.2 ( and this should be possible at the 60-80Hz range), all is fine.
The important factor is time to market:
-There are ZERO 4k60hz on market capable of 1080p120hz below $2000, so having 1080p 120Hz matters!
-There are ZERO 4k at 75Hz or more
Both features are possible with current DP 1.2. I managed to squeeze blanking timings on my U2515H to fit 3x 2560x1440/60Hz over the bandwith of a single DP 1.2 output. This is equivalent of 4k/80Hz. So 4k/75Hz is a valid goal for DP 1.2 without much blanking timings squeezing.
About taking dual DP 1.2, as long as it is possible to run 4k over a single DP 1.2 ( and this should be possible at the 60-80Hz range), all is fine.
The important factor is time to market:
-There are ZERO 4k60hz on market capable of 1080p120hz below $2000, so having 1080p 120Hz matters!
-There are ZERO 4k at 75Hz or more
Both features are possible with current DP 1.2. I managed to squeeze blanking timings on my U2515H to fit 3x 2560x1440/60Hz over the bandwith of a single DP 1.2 output. This is equivalent of 4k/80Hz. So 4k/75Hz is a valid goal for DP 1.2 without much blanking timings squeezing.
Is there much interest in running a 4K panel at 1080p120Hz?
The real headliner would be 4K at 120 Hz via dual DP 1.2 inputs. No monitor is even projected to come out with that spec until like summer next year or possibly even later seeing on how slow they are with DP 1.3/1.4 roll out. Actually, slow would be an understatement.
The real headliner would be 4K at 120 Hz via dual DP 1.2 inputs. No monitor is even projected to come out with that spec until like summer next year or possibly even later seeing on how slow they are with DP 1.3/1.4 roll out. Actually, slow would be an understatement.
l88bastard
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I'm in on getting 4k 120hz to work.....would love to be able to do that on a 39" Seiki with a VA panel. What do I need to buy??? Can I sponser Cirthix to build me one?
Hopefully you all can help me solve this problem. So our work replaced all our computers with laptops. Both me and my boss have 39" seiki monitors. His appears to be a newer revision that removed the component plugs on the side, other than that they are the same model number ( SE39UY04 ). I flashed mine with a modified firmware over a year ago, which I don't have any more.
The problem is that his screen won't do 4k @ 30hz with the new laptop while mine will (doesn't matter if it is his or my laptop, they both work on mine, not on his monitor). The laptops don't allow an edid override so a tool like custom resolution utility doesn't work with them. Does anyone know of a firmware that will tell the laptop the screen is capable of 4k @ 30hz?
The problem is that his screen won't do 4k @ 30hz with the new laptop while mine will (doesn't matter if it is his or my laptop, they both work on mine, not on his monitor). The laptops don't allow an edid override so a tool like custom resolution utility doesn't work with them. Does anyone know of a firmware that will tell the laptop the screen is capable of 4k @ 30hz?
Here's a couple of firmware files for the 39": Download multiple files from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way
I'd be careful about flashing the firmware, though, if you don't have a way of reverting it.
I'd be careful about flashing the firmware, though, if you don't have a way of reverting it.
Zangmonkey
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So I found that seiki to be strangely sensitive with cables. Before you do anything check if his laptop will work with your cable.
Already tried my cable with his and didn't work, the above 2 firmwares didn't work either. It must be something weird with this revision. When we plug into mine it says hdmi, when we plug into his it says dvi.