Seiki SE50UY04 3840x2160 50" TV ($1300)

Discussion in 'Displays' started by houkouonchi, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Medawky

    Medawky n00bie

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    Hey elleana, I have the 39" 4k and viewing distance wise, on a windows desktop, around 60cm is perfect for me, thats with 125% ui scale. Think of it as a 20" 1080p screen, it has similar ppi to it. So its similar to how far u would sit with most other regular PC monitors.

    However, for gaming at 1080p, it would be nice to sit back around 1m due to the lower res and the size. Or if u play slower paced games like strat or turn based etc, then just run the games at 4k :) Heroes of M&M 6 looks amazing on 4k.
     
  2. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    1) Well I am not the norm but I am probably abou 2 feet away from it normally and 3 feet when I am leaning back in my chair and it is very comfortable for me at 75 DPI UI setting (compare with windows 96 DPI) but I can use a 22 inch 4k at about the same distance with no problems either. I think you would be more than far enough away if its just the depth of the desk that is 2.5 feet and additional distance with the chair.

    2) A lot of people have reported good pictures with the Oppo but honestly if you have a computer hooked up to it I really don't see the need for this as a computer will upscale to 4k as well and usually does a great job of doing it.
     
  3. notarat

    notarat [H]ard|Gawd

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    I bought the 50" Seiki in May 2013 and I've been very happy with my purchase. So much so that I purchased the 39" as well. (I used the 50" as the only monitor on my computer until the 39" arrived)

    Once I replaced the 50" with the 39" it took a few days to get used to looking at a smaller display but, once that happened, it's a much better experience since I don't have to crane my neck to "look up" anymore to see the top of the 50" TV.

    The 39" has a setting that will display an auto-Power-Off notification after 4hrs. You can disable this by going into the service menu (Press Menu, then at the normal menu, pres 0000). Go to the advanced options, others, and you can disable this option.

    I use my 39" to do productivity, but I have gamed on this (and the 50") for at least a couple hundred hours and I still believe it was one (two, actually) of the best choices I ever made for a monitor.

    Both the 50" and the 39" I bought required a firmware update. This wasn't difficult to perform and it stopped the intermittent blanking of the screen.

    The only thing I'm worried about is the long term reliability but, I look at it this way...

    The 32" Dell is $3499. The 39" Seiki is $475. (About 1/7th the cost)

    If it lasts only 6 months, I can still buy a new one every 6 months for 42 months before I equal the cost of the Dell.

    Even if it only lasts a couple years there will MOST DEFINITELY be a new generation of UHD TVs and monitors with 120Hz at 4K performance for <$1000 so I come out ahead when the time comes to buy the new generation because I spent so little now.
     
  4. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00bie

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  5. leeleatherwood

    leeleatherwood [H]ard|Gawd

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    I just flashed the 50" firmware on my 39", it works.

    EDIT: Sharpness setting in the menu doesn't function, you can change the setting but it doesn't change the sharpness at all. (correction, it seems to work over HDMI but not DVI, wierd)

    I was using the sharpness setting as a form of pseudo anti-aliasing at 1080p to make text look better, but I cant do that anymore. 4k reso is fine obviously.

    EDIT: Mouse lag at 4k is MUCH improved with the 50" firmware. With the 39" firmware it was pretty unbearable to me and I found myself using 1080p constantly. Now I have no problems running 4k.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  6. leeleatherwood

    leeleatherwood [H]ard|Gawd

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    My 39" @ 1080p 120hz, no frame skipping with the 50" firmware.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Medawky

    Medawky n00bie

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    Wow! Who would have thought :)

    Anyone else try it? Imma give it a go!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  8. leeleatherwood

    leeleatherwood [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ive been using it all day.

    The best improvement is the input lag reduction at 4k, everything feels so much smoother. 30hz isnt bad at all.
     
  9. Excessionoz

    Excessionoz [H]Lite

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    http://www.seiki.com/support/downloads.php <--- download location.

    Downloaded the 50" TV ROM
    unzipped it onto a FAT32-formatted USB key
    Plug USB Key into TV
    Menu on Seiki remote
    Press 0 four times (0000) to activate factory settings
    Navigate to Software Update -- choose YES.
    Power indicator flashes orange and blue for about a minute
    Then you get the Seiki indicator and the Initial Settings menu (choose language etc)

    I had to set my brightness down to about 17 (down from 50).

    Worked just fine.

    Now to test that 120Hz at 1920 * 1080 actually works, instead of skipping.

    I'll use my HueyPro colorometer to fix up the settings later.

    Thanks Internet!
     
  10. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Wow awesome. I seirously considered doing this but I was seriously worried about bricking my 39 inch display. I knew it was just a firmware issue...
     
  11. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    BTW for people who are annoyed by the whole disconnect when in sleep mode thing on the 39 inch... This was bugging my dad with his dual 39 inch setup as all the windows would get resized and put in the corner when the monitors were turned off I bought him a HDMI detective plus and that appears to fix the issue.

    The HDMI detectives only supported HDMI 1.3 according to the specs but said 340 Mhz pixelclock so I took a chance and they appear to be working just fine @ 4k.
     
  12. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Maybe I can do some direct comparosin video's with my dad's dual 39 inches (one flashed with 50 inch one with 39) to show how input lag is different at both 120Hz and at 30Hz.
     
  13. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Wow... so some more unexpected benefits of the 50 inch firmware....

    The scaling is now simple pixel doubling at 1920x1080 so it so it renders well without the scaler messing with the image. This is better scaling (IMHO) for computer/game use which is what people running at 1080p@120hz would do. See the difference.

    Here is the 39 inch standard firmware:

    [​IMG]

    And here is with the 50 inch firmware. The difference is plain.

    [​IMG]

    I know a ton of people preferred this method of scaling. I am guessing its a difference in the i2c commands being sent to the display is causing this. I think this is probably a plus for most although this does make the scaling at 2560x1440 more jagged but more bolded IMHO so it could be argued which is better at resolutions that don't scaler perfectly.

    Also this is not completely verified yet but it is looking like the issue of the 39 inch neading an HDMI detective so that when you power it off windows thinks the display went away also appears to be fixed. I haven't tested enough to verify this yet though. I haven't had windows get resized and all moved to one monitor since I flashed it with the new firmware.

    I also assume this will fix the issue where the display turns off after several hours of use as well as I have seen that several times on the 39 inch but its never happened to me on the 50 inch model.

    I didn't notice any difference in input lag at 4k @ 30 hz though.

    I know a bunch of you guys were waiting to pull the trigger once it could do 1080p@120Hz, have any of you guys now ordered it because of this? Its currently not as cheap as I have seen it go before ($426 at amazon) but still a great deal at $499.
     
  14. Excessionoz

    Excessionoz [H]Lite

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    After running with the 50" ROM, I found scrolling of web pages in my browser to be irritating (when moving the text would go spidery, only firming up once scrolling stopped). Compared the standard ROM, where scrolling is choppy, but solid text, not spidery.

    I just reverted to the August 2013 39" ROM; I had tried to play a game (The Stanley Parable) in 1920 * 1080 @ 120Hz and got incessant screen blanking (every 3-7 seconds the screen would blank). Absolutely unplayable.
     
  15. Medawky

    Medawky n00bie

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    Success on my end. Just tried the 50" firmware and all good. Love playing Chivlary on 120hz 120fps now :)

    Scaling wise, i think i preferred the older scaling at 1080p, but this one will do fine. I find this less 'upscaled' looking, so a lil more jaggy around edges, but its only a minor difference.

    30hz input lag wise, i do feel that it is slightly improved, just a lil, another welcome addition.

    Had a small issue where at 1080p 60hz, i had overscan which my Nvidia driver didnt help me with, but in the hidden menu of TV (0000), i set the over scan from 96/96 to 100/100 (make sure to do it slowly or they reset to 0) and all good :)

    Overall, im super happy! Now i have a beautiful flexible screen, that is awesome at viewing high res photos in desktop, and ripping fast and smooth for fps gaming!

    Btw, anyone done a color calibration with the new firmware? Just wondering what your settings are. I couldnt get it looking exactly the same as i had it before. If you could post your settings please, cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
  16. HexedHavoc

    HexedHavoc n00bie

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    So I put the 50" firmware on my 39" and indeed the 120hz works at 1080p (yay)

    However, I still have the issue where the text and colors do not look right :(

    For example, if I set it to 1080p @ 30hz, everything looks AMAZING, text is very crisp, colors brightness etc are perfect... if I change it from 30hz tho, text has aliasing, colors etc are not right and having trouble calibrating (I think this may be to do with pixel format since that setting disapears from my AMD control panel unless I use 30hz)

    Grrr

    Can anyone help? this monitor would be perfect if I could make it look correct (how it does when display is at 30hz) at 120hz :(
     
  17. Medawky

    Medawky n00bie

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    Double check that your "just scan" setting hasnt reset, also any post processing options should be off or set to zero, like sharpness, noise reduction etc.

    I have noticed a small issue where the colors in 1080p120 and 4k30 dont match, even though they have the same settings, the 4k looks warmer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  18. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00bie

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    Hi guys, so after having used 120hz for a few weeks, i'm absolutely loving it, however i'm left with a huge dilemma when i'm playing any game with a locked framerate, i get some pretty bad stuttering when i play something like retroarch or bit trip runner or most console ports. I've found the only way to get rid of this stuttering on these games is to set the tv to not 60hz, but 1080p NTSC 59.94hz, but the issue with that is that i get terribad input lag, :/

    I was thinking there might be a fix for this, because what's happening is the tv is displaying frames sorta like 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 3 causing these stutters due to not having an exact integer multiple of 59.94hz x 2. So, any of you know if it's possible to fix these stutters in older games by using a refresh rate somewhere around 119.88hz?
     
  19. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Really sucks if games are locked at 60Hz. Maybe thats an issue with rendering though as I don't usually see really bad stuttering at that resolution. How did you add the 120Hz mode? you could try decreasing it more to get something that is more exactly double but that still may not help depending on video/card drivers.

    Do these games need 1080p? Maybe running 1280x720 @ 240Hz might work in a way so its smoother or even a higher refresh rate at lower resolution? I would think anything that is stupid enough to have a locked frame-rate would not necessarily be the type of thing that would benefit from having a high refresh rate but I could be wrong.

    I actually run quakelive (well back before they dropped linux support and I quit the game) at 720p@240Hz for the reduced input lag. might be worth giving it a shot if responsiveness is a big issue for you.

    I am also a bit surprised you don't have the same issue when the frame-rate is not perfectly sync'd when doing 1920x1080@60 out as unless its perfectly sync'd with vsync I would think the studder would possibly even be worse.

    I didn't think input lag changed depending on running a computer generated mode vs TV generated but it could be making a difference. I assume at 60Hz your using the EDID (which is an HDTV standard mode) which suffers from overscan with some firmware's and the tv lists 1080p instead of '1920x1080' right? or is it saying 1920x1080@60Hz? I would maybe try using a manual (CVT timing) 60Hz mode instead of the HDTV mode for 1080p as well.
     
  20. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00bie

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    I'm actually still using the EDID you posted.

    But yeah, i get the stutters in these framerate locked games when running 1920x1080@60 or 1920x1080@120, but at 1080p NTSC (added this from amds catalyst) the frame rate and refresh rate are perfectly synched and it's completely stutterfree.

    i did try messing around with CRU a bit to find a slightly slower one, though i can't seem to get it to an exact integer multiple of 2x NTSC refresh.
     
  21. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Try this mode... It looks like NTSC should be 120/1.001 which comes out to 119.88. Using the 1080p timings (at 119.88 Hz) would be this pixelclock:

    (2200*1125)*119.88/1000000 = 296.703 Mhz

    Modeline "1920x1080" 296.703 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

    Or these timings:
    root@dekabutsu: 11:08 AM :~# ./modeline.sh "1920x1080 296.703 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync"
    Pixelclock:
    296.703
    Active Horizontal Pixels:
    1920
    Horizontal Front Portch:
    88
    Horizontal sync width:
    44
    Horizontal back porch:
    148
    Active Vertical Pixels:
    1080
    Vertical Front Portch:
    4
    Vertical sync width:
    5
    Vertical back porch:
    36


    Pixel Clk:
    296.703
    H Active Pxl:
    1920
    H Blank: :
    280
    H Sync Offset:
    88
    H Sync Width:
    44
    H Image Size:
    XXX
    H Border:
    0


    V Active Lines:
    1080
    V Blank:
    45
    V Sync Offset:
    4
    V Sync Width:
    5
    V Image Size:
    XXX
    V Border:
    0
     
  22. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00bie

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    Hmm, seems as though I've been getting some stutter on 60hz and ntsc all along, i tried that 119.88hz timing you posted and it seems to be about the same as 120hz, i'm just gonna chalk all this up to programs/games not knowing how to deal with high frame rates and doing proper frame doubling for it.

    i can seem to get things pretty damn smooth in 120hz on retroarch if i enable black frame insertion, however, this tv can't handle it very well and the colors get totally ugly due to slow pixel response time.

    Perhaps i should ask if the retroarch dev's can add a frame doubling mode into retroarch.
     
  23. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Are you using vsync on retroarch? Sounds like that might be the case. Maybe things would be better if it was disabled. You might get tearing but that is better than stuttering IMHO and tearing is usually not all that bad. I took a look at this:

    https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/wiki/Getting-optimal-vsync-performance

    It also looks like it has a setting (video_refresh_rate) which has to be manually set which is maybe a lot of the problem?

    Most 3d applications are not locked to a specific frame-rate/refresh rate.
     
  24. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00bie

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    I gave that a try, didn't seem to change anything though, also i can't seem to tolerate tearing with vsync off, it bothers me a bit more than it seems to bother most others.
     
  25. HexedHavoc

    HexedHavoc n00bie

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    I've gone over everything... it is so frustrating :(

    display looks great at 1080p 30hz, but if you go higher everything looks sooo different
     
  26. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Probably because at 30Hz its using GPU scaling atleast that is how the ATI cards work. They put in the lower refresh rate mode that uses GPU scaling.
     
  27. HexedHavoc

    HexedHavoc n00bie

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    I doubt this is it, as I can still select gpu scaling in the ati control panel (still looks crap)
     
  28. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    the control panel is freaking useless with that GPU scaling setting on ATI cards, trust me, its worthless, it doesn't seem to matter whether its checked or not. I have seen lots of times when it is when its not checked and is not when it is.

    Its really simple. If when you select 1920x1080@30Hz (when you think it looks good) and the tv info says its 3840x2160@30Hz then it *is* using GPU scaling, no ifs ands or buts.
     
  29. HexedHavoc

    HexedHavoc n00bie

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    Well I can get it to show 1920x1080@120hz and yet it still doesnt look as good as the 30hz setting :/ so why is that :(
     
  30. Medawky

    Medawky n00bie

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    For games, most games are frame limited to 60 or 62, but luckily, most games' ini files can be edited to increase their max fps cap to 120fps, along with the refresh rate from within the game, or one of games' config files. Just google for each game, each has their own solution. But once set, it sticks nicely so its all good.

    Now, there is a bit of an issue though, for some games if u launch from a desktop resolution of 4k30 it doesnt work, and Seiki just detects 1080i60 instead, which is annoying. To overcome this, I had to switch my desktop to 1080p120 first, then launch the game, and it works fine.

    I have been playing Chivlary like this for a while now, its absolutely amazing. Better colors than the cheap TN 120hz monitors, just as good response and i like the size for the 'sit back n game' factor :)

    Well done to Seiki for releasing such a product, and a BIG WELL DONE to the person who found out about the 50" firmware on the 39 :)

    Hey HexedHavoc, regarding your 1080p30 issue. Have you tried other refresh rates as well on 1080p? For example, how does 24hz look? does it look good like 30hz or bad like 120hz? On mine it looks identical, but im running a Nvidia GF 680gtx card so its different drivers etc. I bet at some stage there is some scaling going on for the modes other than 30hz that u mentioned looks the best, just dig through each menu of drivers and TV after switching res/refresh rate everytime. It has to be something basic. Maybe even try to repeat this issue with a regular 1080p PC monitor, see if that behaves the same way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  31. dragonageinquisition

    dragonageinquisition Gawd

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    Hows the noise level of the power transformer on the Seiki screens? I really like the larger size of LCD TVs but the one thing that is holding me back (and using regular pc monitors instead) is most TVs hav sound like buzzing bees in a nearfield setting, and really makes it difficult to sit down in an quiet ambient setting without music to drown it out.
     
  32. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00bie

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    oh yeah, i got retroarch working how i wanted to in 120hz mode, apparently it had frame doubling all along, it was just called "vsync swap interval" and you can get frame doubling, tripling, quadrupling etc with it.

    next thought for this tv, if we installed new electronics in the future with displayport, could we get amd freesync working with it? ;o
     
  33. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    Until then I won't touch a 4k display.
     
  34. Odellus

    Odellus [H]ard|Gawd

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    uh, the asus 4k screen does 60 Hz?
     
  35. Medawky

    Medawky n00bie

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    Hey Dragon, TV buzzing noise wise, here are my findings:

    Before i say, let me assure you i tested it thoroughly, i even have a fanless 0db PC :)

    Anyways:

    1) Desktop at 4k = No noise whatsoever
    2) Desktop at 1080p with black background = audible buzzing noise
    3) Desktop at 1080p with white background = no buzzing noise

    So basically, on 4k theres no buzzing at all, as opposed to 1080p where there is buzzing depending on how hard the backlight has to crank itself i guess. But its minor, only audible on a PC full of SSDs and fanless PSU and passive CPU / GPU like mine.
     
  36. notarat

    notarat [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't hear any buzz whatsoever with mine (39" or 50")
     
  37. thomaslfessler

    thomaslfessler [H]Lite

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    With a 39 Seiki... At all resolutions... it's completely silent with the backlight in torch mode. This is coming from a guy who is very sensitive to the whine of the high-voltage flyback on a CRT or a bad capacitor.



    9 to 5 Mac also reported Seiki announced a 28" running @ 60Hz for the 1st half of 2014 that will be out at a price less than the 39".

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  38. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    I don't like how the vertical viewing angle is significantly worse (TN?) and the 60Hz (vs 120hz of the others) as well. Also no clue if its HDMI 2.0 or 1.4 for true 60Hz input (not just 60Hz output).
     
  39. monomaniac00

    monomaniac00 n00bie

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    So I recieved my 39" Seiki 4K a few days ago and I'm living a nightmare trying to get 4K to work.

    I purchased the Accell active adapter (mDP > TB), I updated the television firmware (was reading that the 50" works too, but I'm waiting until I can get 4K working) and downloaded SwitchResX.

    I currently use a 2012 Macbook Air (Intel 4000) running 10.9.1 (I had to upgrade to so I could use Final Cut 10.1) and I can't get any custom resolutions in the display options other than 1080p, 1080i, 720p, and 1600 X 900.

    The most frustrating part is finding a solution that works. I've tried going into SwitchresX and creating custom resolutions that people have found success with on the internet, but even after saving and restarting my computer, the status still says not installed. What am I missing?

    I understand that since I'm running Mavericks (10.9) I can't install the Tom patch for higher monitor frequencies, I just want to get 4K at whatever Hz works.

    Is there a solution that I'm just passing over or is my computer just not compatible? (I've read that people are getting even getting 4K on the 2011 Mac mini). Thanks!
     
  40. dragonageinquisition

    dragonageinquisition Gawd

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    Good to know thanks a lot. I've got a lot of older LCD TVs around the house of various brands that have constantly hum or buzz from various sources, although a few are like as you described, they only buzz based on backlight level, if its too dark = buzz, if its bright = its fine.

    Now to wait for Seiki to release an HDMI 2.0 39" screen :D

    The other sizes are too big for my desk. It's either that or spend $3.5k on a Dell up3214q, but my god why do that when you get can three Seikis for that price.