Seiki SE50UY04 3840x2160 50" TV ($1300)

Discussion in 'Displays' started by houkouonchi, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Sn0_Man

    Sn0_Man Gawd

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    Sure but intelligently written scaling actually looks pretty good and 2560x1440 is a lot more resolution than 1080p. Assuming you want to run the most resolution you can while maintaining 60Hz refresh rate, on these TV's you want 1440p.

    Not everybody wants that, but there is a legitimate reason for considering it.
     
  2. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Yeah assuming the scaling isnt the way it currently is 2560x1440 would make sense for someone who wants higher resolution and higher Hz but doesn't need 120hz. That being said with the scaling in its current state on the seiki (atleast on the 50 inch) I don't see why *anyone* would run that resolution.
     
  3. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Scaling on the 39 inch is just as poor as the 50. Definitely being downscaled to 1080p when > 1080p < 2160p resolutions are given.

    Here is what some browser pics look like:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And here is what a zoom in of this image looks like:

    [​IMG]

    At 3840x2160:
    [​IMG]

    At 1920x1080:

    [​IMG]

    At 2560x1440:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. master0068

    master0068 n00b

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    Thanks for taking the time to do these tests and posting the images. It's extremely helpful for me, who was considering the 39" and I'm sure others as well.

    This reaffirms MY need, to wait for a 60hz/HDMI 2.0/4K budget TV. At the very least, if the 1440p scaling is no good, but the 4k resolution runs @ 60hz, we can scale From 4k on the Video card.
     
  5. oneb1t

    oneb1t n00b

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    is there any way to just replace/hack seiki board with connection for displayport 1.2 to achieve 4k@60hz on one cable?
     
  6. maarten12100

    maarten12100 Limp Gawd

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    It'll be replace and replace both.
    The 65 inch models are actually capable of handeling 60Hz over FPD-LINK but the 39 and the 50 inch can not with current Tcon's.

    I've been in contact with a firm named Sigmadesigns they might be able to get me a VX1 transceiver so I can test my Tcon.
     
  7. markkin

    markkin [H]Lite

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    According to the Seiki Digital facebook page, Seiki Digital is working on HDMI 2.0 for their new 4k TV, I wonder if it would be possible to just trade out the board from HDMI 1.4 to HDMI 2.0.
     
  8. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    I was curious how high seiki's current HDMI interface could take a beeting. I played stepmania for about an hour at as high as what the linux drivers would let me do (340Mhz pixel clock which is the official limit of HDMI 1.4) for 1920x1080@147Hz using cvt-reduced modeline:

    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Validating Mode "1920x1080":
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): 1920 x 1080 @ 147 Hz
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Mode Source: X Configuration file ModeLine
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Pixel Clock : 340.00 MHz
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): HRes, HSyncStart : 1920, 1968
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): HSyncEnd, HTotal : 2000, 2080
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): VRes, VSyncStart : 1080, 1083
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): VSyncEnd, VTotal : 1088, 1111
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): H/V Polarity : +/-
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Viewport 1920x1080+0+0
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Horizontal Taps 0
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Vertical Taps 0
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Base SuperSample x1
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Base Depth 32
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Distributed Rendering 1
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Overlay Depth 32
    (II) Oct 11 20:24:51 NVIDIA(GPU-0): Mode is valid.


    So far I have had no artifacts and played stepmania for about an hour with no loss of signal or any other issues so atleast the interface could probably take quite a bit more of a beating.
     
  9. maarten12100

    maarten12100 Limp Gawd

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    The LVDS bandwidth will bottleneck you they will therefore use a different Tcon making it not compatible.

    I don't know what kind of sorcery they did on the 65 inch panel to get 60Hz over it but the Tcon is seriously buffed and won't be compatible with the 39 inch model unless you cut that buff in half. (it will fit the 50 inch but the cables need to be replaced and I don't know if you can make them that much longer and bend them into position)
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  10. suiken_2mieu

    suiken_2mieu 2[H]4U

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    I haven't found any information the 65" being able to do 60Hz 4K, everything says 30Hz.
     
  11. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00b

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    Hey, so what do you guys think the chances are that we'll be able to install one of those gsync modules in this tv? As i was reading that news today, the first thing that came to mind was how awesome it would be if we could mod HDTV's with this thing and eliminate most of the input lag.
     
  12. alamone

    alamone Gawd

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    Given that G-Sync appears to disable all inputs except displayport, and the Seiki doesn't have a displayport, I'd say none.
     
  13. gwimmel

    gwimmel n00b

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    well damn, i was a few weeks away from ordering this TV, but now i think it'd be better if I waited for something with gsync, hopefully that asus 39" one will have it.
     
  14. ubiquityman

    ubiquityman [H]Lite

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    Does anyone have experience running the Seiki off a Mac vs Windows?
    Does OSX have significantly less lag than Windows?
     
  15. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    if anything I would say it is possibly more on mac os X just due to the way the desktop is rendered but if its a game or something it should be the same across all as its really a matter of the display not the OS.
     
  16. rpmucha23

    rpmucha23 [H]Lite

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    i have the 39"

    i've tried it on my MacbookPro Retina (nvidia 650M), on both OSX 10.8 & Win7 (bootcamp). Also the same as on my i5-3570k rig (GTX580sli), and the same on my 2011 iMac (hd6970)on 10.8.

    i have no lag at all @ 1080p, but the lag @ 4k is pretty severe on both Win7 and 10.8

    havent found any tips that have cured it yet. not sure why switching to 1080p gets rid of the lag.
     
  17. suiken_2mieu

    suiken_2mieu 2[H]4U

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    The lag comes from the 30Hz Vsync. If you could turn off Vsync on the desktop (easy to do on win 7, just disable aero), if would help out lag ALOT.
     
  18. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    indeed, vsync @ 30hz is pretty bad. Its pretty decent on linux/xgl/beryl with vsync turned off.
     
  19. rpmucha23

    rpmucha23 [H]Lite

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    I disabled vsync in the nvidia control panel, and there was no difference, I'll try turning aero off tonight.
     
  20. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    I don't think that makes one bit of difference for aero.
     
  21. suiken_2mieu

    suiken_2mieu 2[H]4U

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    Make a batch file with this in it:

    Code:
    @echo off
    sc interrogate uxsms | find "1062"
    if %errorlevel%==0 goto :sc_start
    sc stop uxsms
    exit
    
    :sc_start
    sc start uxsms
    exit
    Run it in administrator mode and it will toggle aero on and off.
     
  22. rpmucha23

    rpmucha23 [H]Lite

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    Oh Yeah!

    that .bat file did the trick. alot more responsive. i notice a little screen tearing, but i got my responsiveness back!
     
  23. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Yeah not surprising. Is there anyway to disable vsync of aero? I think the 3d helps in responsiveness when you have a lot of windows open but if there is no way to disable vsync on aero that that kinda sucks.. Pretty sure the same issue on OS X with its desktop rendering which is why it seemed fairly laggy too.
     
  24. ubiquityman

    ubiquityman [H]Lite

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    I don't think VSYNC is the issue. 30Hz @ 1080p with VYSNC on, feels a lot more responsive than 4k. There's something else involved here.
     
  25. rpmucha23

    rpmucha23 [H]Lite

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    weird, after the upgrade the 10.9 Mavericks, the lag issue is also much improved.

    heck now i don't have much of an excuse not to keep this monitor until a proper 39"-4K-60Hz monitor comes out....come on Asus!
     
  26. suiken_2mieu

    suiken_2mieu 2[H]4U

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    So... Is the 39" firmware out? Or did Seiki forget about it?
     
  27. rozsnyo

    rozsnyo n00b

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    These pictures reveal a feature / bug in the Innolux LCDs:

    When there is a sharp corner of 3+ pixels, the corner of it gets smoothed out. This is fine to do in the FHD resolution where we do not want to have sharp 2x2 blocks (that is a feature called "super-resolution"). But on the other side.. this feature is not disabled when the panel is in UHD mode and the pixel perfect image coming out of our duallink DVI interface addon for Seiki TV is mangled and especially bold text where such 3+ pixel corners are often found is ugly. That is a BUG. It is not caused by the Realtek's 4:2:2 processing, it is done in the LCD.
     
  28. maarten12100

    maarten12100 Limp Gawd

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    Wait you mean you are using a TMDS interfaced Tcon with the Innolux panel (the ones made in 2008)
    I wanted to try them but couldn't get my hands on one is it any good?
     
  29. rozsnyo

    rozsnyo n00b

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    Nope. I am using my own controller board. It attaches to the existing LVDS interfaced original Tcon, I did not want to deal with overdrive algorithms, so I've chosen an easier way. Also my aim is to deliver 24b RGB in 4:4:4 and overcome the signal degrading from the Realtek in seiki (it has three main issues: 4:2:2 subsampling, a crazy sharpening/LUT so I cant get a nice gradient, and quadrant seams are visible in various ways under various sharpening setting).

    Getting rid of that smoothing would mean we can extend the seiki TV with a DLDVI interface (later on with a DP), to deliver a pixel perfect 4k/30Hz.

    How can I get rid of "You may not post attachments" limitation?
     
  30. maarten12100

    maarten12100 Limp Gawd

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    I see I tried to go that way but I didn't have a 4 channel LVDS transmitter laying around.
    I however yesterday received the schematics of a v-by-one board which I will be ordering it is a 8 lane board but there appears to be a 16 lane board in the make for a AUO panel (8 lanes for the CSOT one)

    Sadly it also is HDMI but our experience teaches that HDMI can go a long way if you overclock those 3 lanes to hell and back.

    Don't really know how you coudl get rid of those forum limitations do you have links in it since some are blocked for whatever reason that may be.
     
  31. rozsnyo

    rozsnyo n00b

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    Possible to share the schematics / supplier / price ? Which LCD are you going to use?

    To fully saturate a 8 lane model you would need DP1.2 or HDMI2, so I do not see how one gets away with a 16 lane controller, if not by using multiple inputs (which is also valid for the 8 lane one).
    I have seen 84" Taiwanese UHD monitors with 4x HDMI, each supplying 60Hz quadrant (or maybe it could be set to drive by strips, which would be better for vsync).
     
  32. maarten12100

    maarten12100 Limp Gawd

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    I have the V390DK1 panel here but I have a different Tcon hooked up to it which is a lot like the V390DJ1 Tcon but 2 of them each powered by 4 lanes of V-by-one -> 4 channels of LVDS.

    I'm going to cross my fingers and see how deep the rabbit hole goes with 1.4 it won't be the first time they just certified it like that because the updated standard wasn't defined yet.
    The 50 inch panel would work with 16 lanes of V-by-one but rerouting mini LVDS ribbon cables isn't possible so one would have to have those made (and those things are fragile and can't handle impedance well)

    I posted a picture of a FPGA setup with a 84 inch a few pages back driven by 16 lanes.
    The reason it can take 16 lanes is because of frame interpolation.

    About the schematics I haven't really figured them out myself 15 pages of high def prints are a pain to manage as for supplier it is the same as used in a Chinese brand TV and costs about 80 euro.
     
  33. Biggrich76

    Biggrich76 Limp Gawd

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    Just picked up the 39 inch version from Amazon. I wish I had taken the time to do more research because there is very little benefit of having this as a desktop monitor.

    Basically you're capped at 1080 @ 120Hz for desktop use. 3840 x 2160 @ 30Hz creates a laggy desktop experience in Windows and anything in between (1620, 1440, etc) makes text and icons blurry as mentioned earlier in this thread.

    I couldn't get BF4 to run on anything above 1080 without the display resetting. And now that I've been using it at 1080p 120Hz for a couple hours, I've noticed the display blanking out and coming back on a few times during normal desktop usage too.

    Unfortunately, I think this is gonna have to go back. It offers very little improvement over my old Sony KDR-32EX400 @ 1080 and 60Hz except a slightly larger screen. I was really hoping for more usable desktop real estate or at least some better gaming resolutions. Oh well.
     
  34. vsboxerboy

    vsboxerboy 2[H]4U

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    Wow, so the lag is really an issue for web browsing and things? I just want a big, sharp display for programming, I don't really game.
     
  35. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Set your monitor to 30Hz- you'll see why 'this isn't the 4k monitor you're looking for' pretty quick :).
     
  36. terracode

    terracode n00b

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    The monitor works very well for programming. You'll need to adjust the pciture settinggs. It is nice with all the extra screen real-estate. The issue is if you are playing fast motion games that you'll notice that scrolling or refresh not to optimal. I personally really like using the Seiki se39uy04 for productivity apps and also watching 4K youtube videos.
     
  37. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    BS about capped at 1080p. The lag doesn't bother some people at all and a lot of that comes added with vsync that windows aero causes. If you are willing to disable windows aero then its a lot better. Moot issue for me as i run linux and i run at 3840x2160 95% of the time I use the display (both 39 and 50 inch).

    Almost 0 reason to be running 1920x1080@120Hz on the 39 inch display as it can't natively support it. Some video cards seem to have issues getting a stable signal. I know i had that problem with one of the cables that came with one of my monitors but otherwise its been perfectly stable for me.
     
  38. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Just say no to Aero- MS yanked it out of Windows 8.
     
  39. kru

    kru n00b

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    Aero or not, without vsync, the screen tearing at 30Hz is pretty unsightly.
     
  40. alamone

    alamone Gawd

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    Aero might be gone in Win8, but desktop composition is now required due to the interface formerly known as metro...