Seiki SE50UY04 3840x2160 50" TV ($1300)

Discussion in 'Displays' started by houkouonchi, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Anyone get one of these yet? The 30Hz refreshrate is problematic. I wonder if it can do 1920x2160 x2 for 60Hz like some other quad HD TV's/monitors can do? If I could drive this via two HDMI and get 60Hz I think I would jump at it. Has anyone got one of these yet and what has their experience been so far?
     
  2. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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  3. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Well I bought one. I figured if it doesn't work out well as a monitor then I will just use it as a TV and I over paid a couple hundred dollars (for the size) when I could have bought something cheaper instead. I needed a new TV anyway and just got $3300 back from taxes =).


    I will report back on if I can overclock it and/or give it multiple inputs to get a higher refresh rate like some of the other 4k monitors/tv's in the past have allowed for.
     
  4. darkhorse

    darkhorse Gawd

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    HDMI 1.4 is single cable and can only do 30fps at 4k. Other TV's rely on 4xHDMI 1.3 ports/cables for 4k so they can theoretically do 60fps with the proper source (1080p60 x4)
     
  5. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Well its probably possible to use tighter timings/overclock to get over 30 Hz it depends on how picky the TV is on what it displays.

    The other 4k displays I have seen have not been 4x HDMI they have been 2x HDMI or 2x DVI to get 3840x2160 @ 60Hz.
     
  6. darkhorse

    darkhorse Gawd

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    It's a limitation of the bandwidth of the cable and hdmi 1.4 interface, not the display, overclocking matter won't if you can't send anything higher than 30hz down the cable.

    Though I imagine even with 30p content being piped into it the actual refresh rate of the display is 60hz at 4k, just displaying each frame twice.
     
  7. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Check out:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXBu9nxLN78

    This guy did an hour long video on the monitor. I am still waiting for mine.

    Anyway something he said at 46:48 gives me great hope. He mentions:

    Guy 2: Oh, thats funny.
    Guy 2: That's a sticker over the manual. And in the manual they have like a Y HDMI cable that is going into HDMI 1 and 2.
    Guy 1: Oh really? So they were initially splitting it?
    Guy 2: Thats what it sounds like.

    I actually now have hope that this thing might be able to do 60Hz by running over both HDMI 1 and 2 like other 4k monitors/tv's can do.
     
  8. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Well I think linux is maybe hard-coded sending DVI signals over HDMI? I noticed the TV would say DVI-1 when running in linux. Also i could only get 3840x2160@17 Hz. As soon as I went over 165 Mhz pixel clock I got nothing... (even 165.01)

    This was with my macbook retina under linux. On my desktop it was the same story as soon as its over 165 nothing =(

    So things are not looking good. Under windows the macbook pro retina was able to do 31 Hz with custom timings. The default timings for 30Hz did not work at all (24Hz did though) I did 31Hz with CVT reduced timings. Here is a picture:

    [​IMG]

    So its looking like nvidia drivers on linux are totally broken.. my worse fear as I do not use windows at all. I don't have windows on my desktop to test if it works in windows on the gtx 470 and since my laptop is a mobile card I guess I will go grab a gtx 6XX series and test some more later to night but I don't have high hopes.

    I tested (via my DP -> HDMI adapters) 3840x2160@24Hz via two 1920x2160 outputs each at 24 Hz but the bad news is it did not work =( HDMI1/2 just had 1920x2160 (super wide stretched) output on each source. Didn't have super high hopes for this so no big surprise... These adapters did not really work right at all on windows with this display.
     
  9. Godmachine

    Godmachine [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Amazing resolution but awful refresh rate. When we can do 4k at 60hz I'll bite.
     
  10. markkin

    markkin [H]Lite

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    @houkouonchi
    thanks for the testing, I was thinking about buying this monitor too for work.
     
  11. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Even at 31 Hz, it's useful for information display, graphics, and photo. I am pretty sure it makes one kick-ass big digital photo displayer.

    Can you please do 1920x1080p 120Hz tests?
    I am told that this display can do 120Hz native when you input 1920x1080.
    This can be worth the price for some people who don't care about 4K, but would love the 120Hz.
    For more information, see HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO but you should be able to easily force 120 Hz using the Linux drivers, at least by modifying the modelines and using utilities such as xrandr, etc.
     
  12. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    This monitor doesnt work for anything past 165 Mhz on linux at all so I can't test 1080p@120hz.

    That being said, even with a half bandwidth restriction on linux (which limits me to 19Hz @ 3840x2160) I was able to get 133Hz at 1280x720. It was definitely displaying it too as I am used to 100Hz on a catleap monitor:

    [​IMG]=

    Also no real noticeable input lag at this mode either (and less ghosting than my catleap) but the scaler is kinda shitty so not a great picture at lower resolutions. I also haven't quite gotten dot-to-dot at 3840x2160 output mode either which makes text on it look slightly weird. So definitely some problems but its a pretty awesome display if I could get it running in its full glory.

    I suspect it should work for 120Hz @ 1080p with drivers that can send it the full hdmi 1.4 spec bandwidth.
     
  13. Redshirt #24

    Redshirt #24 2[H]4U

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    I'm still a bit surprised the Reduser folks (which includes houkouonchi--yeah, I saw your name over there :) ) are the first people to really put this thing through its paces, albeit more as a PC monitor than anything else. I seriously was expecting somebody at AVS to have torn this thing to pieces two days after it was released.
     
  14. notarat

    notarat [H]ard|Gawd

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    Mine shipped yesterday. Had I ordered when I first saw it, it would have been here a week ago :(
     
  15. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    With my limited bandwidth due to broken linux I was able to get 71Hz at 1080p and it definitely is doing 70Hz so again I think 120Hz will work @ 1080p
     
  16. markkin

    markkin [H]Lite

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    wish i could get a 50" 4 k monitor. 4k 30 hz is perfect for work stuff
    guess i will wait for the next sale for use one.


    I got two 30" 2560x1600 for exchange if you want to get rid of your 4k :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  17. seanclayton

    seanclayton Gawd

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    Much better than multi-monitor mess. Too bad this display sucks.
     
  18. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    The non dot-2-dot was because of a 'sharpening' going on by the TV. I put the sharpness down to 0 and it looks way better now especially at the native 3840x2160. I have to say its making a very nice monitor now (putting this to 0 is a must for anyone who is using it as a monitor).

    I am living with 19Hz for now until nvidia can fix their shit. Playing quakelive @ 125Hz has been fun though. If there is input lag its probably in the range of 5-10ms I would guess, very low.

    Honestly since it was a TV i was afraid of 60Hz even at lower resolutions and possibly horrendous input lag so I was very presently surprised.

    Once nvidia fixes their shit it will allow me to run 1080p @ 120Hz or 125Hz.
     
  19. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Good to know that the display is able to run at >120Hz native refresh, at least at lower resolutions.

    nVidia should enable display overclocking on the Linux side, like they now allow for the Windows side.
     
  20. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    That isn't even the problem. HDMI spec is like stuck at 1.0 on the linux side ( can't do HDMI 1.3/1.4 even if the hardware can) so its not even a matter of overclocking but just getting the full bandwidth out of the HDMI port. Its a bug.

    You can do up to 400Mhz over DVI on linux but all modelines > 400Mhz get rejected due to hardware constraints (even on display port which can do > 400Mhz) which is another bug. But is enough to do 100 Hz @ 2560x1440 on a catleap. So overclocking somewhat works on linux just broken HDMI =(.
     
  21. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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  22. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Woot! Good news!

    So today I stopped by newegg to pickup this adapter:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158348

    My testing with active single-link adapters brought me to the conclusion it could get around the nvidia driver limitations as it uses DFP-4 (display port with its 960Mhz bandwidth limit) instead of DFP-1/HDMI-1 which says 165 Mhz max as the active adapters actively convert the DFP LVDS to TMDS.

    Up to 27Hz on linux. I bought an active DP -> HDMI adapter and it will do up to 238.50 MHz (doesnt work @ 238.90 Mhz) which upped my limits.

    At 238.90 Mhz I get:

    Code:
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):   Validating Mode "3840x2160":
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):     3840 x 2160 @ 27 Hz
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):     Mode Source: X Configuration file ModeLine
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):       Pixel Clock      : 238.90 MHz
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):       HRes, HSyncStart : 3840, 3888
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):       HSyncEnd, HTotal : 3920, 4000
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):       VRes, VSyncStart : 2160, 2163
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):       VSyncEnd, VTotal : 2168, 2222
    (II) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):       H/V Polarity     : +/-
    (WW) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):     Mode is rejected: Unable to construct hardware-specific
    (WW) Apr 26 14:29:53 NVIDIA(GPU-0):     mode timings.
    

    I now was able to do:

    3840x2160 @ 26.8 hz (ths is so much better than the 18.6 Hz I had before)
    1920x1080 @ 103.2 Hz
    1280x720 @ 192.3Hz

    Screenshots:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This also means now I can game @ 1080p with high responsiveness not just 720p which is also a big improvement.

    Also this could be just my imagination but it seems like I am getting less banding in colors (almost like its 10 bit now). Again could just be my imagination.

    Now if only I could find an active DP -> HDMI 1.4 adapter. They don't seem to be sold anywhere as far as I can see.
     
  23. Redshirt #24

    Redshirt #24 2[H]4U

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    Thank you for going the extra mile, houkouonchi. I've got to ask, though: how's the internal scaler on this thing? Is there any chance you could run some HD movies on this thing, assuming you haven't already, or just plug a Blu-ray player in and fire up something shiny?
     
  24. Godmachine

    Godmachine [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Wow impressive houkouonchi!
     
  25. notarat

    notarat [H]ard|Gawd

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    I hear that the internal scaler is not all that good, but the posts basically said they didn't bother testing it, they just compared whatever chip it comes with to the chip in their up-scaling player...
     
  26. mikeo

    mikeo Limp Gawd

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    Do you think I could drive this at 4k with an older 8800gt with a hdmi -> dvi cable? Or a 560 Ti (Fermi). Do you have any pictures of it in a dark room with a black screen displayed (any blacklight bleeding)?

    Thanks!
     
  27. KeggeR

    KeggeR n00bie

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    I just ordered one today to replace my dell 30" monitor it should get here next Monday I will post some shots.
     
  28. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    720p at nearly 200Hz -- someone needs to test if that is frameskipping!

    Also, some receivers (e.g. Denon) have 4K upscaling support, possibly a much better scaler for upconverting 1080p to 4K. The models with 4K support start at not far from $500.
     
  29. KeggeR

    KeggeR n00bie

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    has anyone heard of splitting dual hdmi sources via dp and using split screen to combine them? I doubt the set has the built in functionality but until I get my 4k from tigerdirect I cannot give it a go. It would allow for 60hz refresh rate though.

    Here is a link for a DP to dual hdmi splitter. http://www.ebay.com/itm/StarTech-SP122DP2HD-DisplayPort-to-Dual-HDMI-M-F-3840-x-1200-Multi-Monitor-/380614327541?pt=US_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item589e61bcf5

    More info on the specific suggestion can be sourced here http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1910290&mpage=1

    I saw a video on youtube showing it with another 4k display but can seem to find it right now
     
  30. KeggeR

    KeggeR n00bie

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  31. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Its not great but after turning off the sharpness and other stuff its been quite a bit better (but could be better). Honestly its not that bad but a video card's integrated scaler could probably do better.

    Not via single DP but yes many 4k monitors have taken multiple inputs for full refresh rate. I have even had 4k monitors that took 4 single link DVI inputs. That was one of the first things I tested using two DP -> HDMI adapters on my macbook retina. I tried feeding it 1920x2160 on both HDMI1 and HDMI2 but alas it was just two seperate inputs. I was really hoping it would do this too but did not have high hopes. Since the monitor has some sort of linux integrated hardware doing shit and it can take updates its probably possible to hack it to do this though.


    That is using MST (single DP cable) and its display port -> display port it is not going through HDMI.
     
  32. KeggeR

    KeggeR n00bie

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    Thank you for the detailed info, thats to bad to hear it doesnt work native :( I did read some info on the possible DC downloads to the TV and also noticed that they can be flashed to a more recent firmware via usb. This would be an interesting project, maybe if time allows i might take it on. I would hope that it could be possible to dual source input for the screen via a software hack, worst case maybe a possible hardware hack. I dont know have brave I will be yet, maybe I will have the balls to take it apart :)
     
  33. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    I ran the Refresh rate Multi-tool on this display and also verified 1080p @ 120Hz (since I was running windows again to run the tool).

    It looks like when it gets input from > 120Hz its just dropping the additional frames so it can't do over 120Hz:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MD8ZVRqvZE
     
  34. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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  35. markkin

    markkin [H]Lite

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    Duplicate
    please delete
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  36. markkin

    markkin [H]Lite

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    @houkouonchi
    Have you tried
    Port 1 HDMI 1.4a 3840x2160 @ 30 Hz
    Port 2 HDMI 1.4a 3840x2160 @ 30 Hz
    Combine for a total of 60 hz via Eyefinity?

    This can be done on
    IBM T221 IBM 3840x2400 @ 48 Hz
    Port 1 DVI-D 3840x2400 @ 24 Hz
    Port 2 DVI-D 3840x2400 @ 24 Hz
     
  37. houkouonchi

    houkouonchi RIP

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    Pretty sure you meant 1920x2160 not 3840x2160.

    That is like *THE* first thing I tested. I already reported it does not work. Look at post 8 in the thread:

    http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039823763&postcount=8

    I have an IBM T221 so I am very familiar with doing this. I run my T221 @ work via two 1920x2400 @48Hz stripes.
     
  38. markkin

    markkin [H]Lite

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    @houkouonchi

    that is what i mean
    strip mode

    thanks

    Now the monitor just needs a hack firmware update to accept strip mode
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  39. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    How about 3840x1080 @ 60Hz?

    My reasoning is that its firmware may currently be more friendly to horizontal halving rather than vertical halving. In theory, you could do 3840x2160i interlaced (yuck) at 60Hz, but I won't even ask you to try that.
     
  40. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    It would essentially be like side-by-side PIP, displaying two inputs simultaneously. The hardware might not have the capability of being able to accept two simultaneous streams simultaneously.

    If that doesn't work, there's a Plan B. This is a perfect hacking opportunity: I bet someone can do it with $300 of add-on chips (Xilinix FPGA's, microcontrollers, HDMI 1.4 receiver chips) -- this is a perfect market for an add-on mod. Mark it up by $400 and sell the board for $700, then you've got 3840x2160 at 60Hz for $2000 total. Still a steal compared to other competition costing $5000. (Scribby? Hypermatrix?) Clearly, the panel is capable of being refreshed 120 times a second, so there's already enough panel bandwidth and the board/HDMI is simply the limiting factor.

    That means, theoretically, the panel could do 3840x2160 at 120Hz using quadruple inputs, given the right custom motherboard (probably still costs under $1000)!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013