Seiki Pro SM40UNP 40"/ SM32UNP 30"4K LED Monitors

NCX said:
This isn't true at all, and a good reviewer will criticize the use of low PWM frequencies since it ruins motion clarity, as well as defeats the point of buying a 4K display for gaming. Consistent, tearing free motion like the Test UFO Ghosting Test looks considerably blurrier and jittery: https://flic.kr/p/qSbVjo

Obviously PWM won't matter to the many smart people who buy 4K displays and endure screen tearing fests when playing with V-Sync disabled with lower frame rates.
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Interesting!
So why some manufacturers use PWM just at low brightness (hybrid) and others chose to sacrifice low brightness at all? (under 60 nits).
That makes no sense at all if `this isnt true at all` (but the frequency they use and from what brighness level is different theme)

Do you know what are you talking about or are you just blindly repeating something you read somewhere and consider it `smart`???

Just learn something about LED background ICs and we can have talk at different level ;)
 
supra92 said:
The screen is reasonably matte -- not fully so, but pretty much how I'd want it.
Supra92
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So this Seiki monitor doesn't have the same glossy LCD finish like Philips has? :confused:

Because there were 2 `issues` I can't forgive to it -> absence of DVI and glossy screen (otherwise it is on my table this time already)
 
spc said:
So this Seiki monitor doesn't have the same glossy LCD finish like Philips has? :confused:

Because there were 2 `issues` I can't forgive to it -> absence of DVI and glossy screen (otherwise it is on my table this time already)
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I'd say the screen is between glossy and matte.
KazeoHin said:
By a tad, would you say... A little less than 2%?
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I do graphic design for a living... I would have never noticed unless someone told me to test it.

Gallery:
http://imgur.com/a/4RzTb

The little distortion line in the middle of the magenta is the the clear edge of the cd. Photos of top and right.
 
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spc said:
So why some manufacturers use PWM just at low brightness (hybrid) and others chose to sacrifice low brightness at all? (under 60 nits).
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The real question is why you think 60 nits that isn't low enough. There are many PWM free monitors with sub 60 nit minimum brightness. The answer to why a manufacturer does anything is almost always "to save money," and because it is easier to use PWM to maintain the colour temperature at very low brightness. It's also part of companies like Eizos marketing since they appear to cater to everyone by selling monitors which are PWM free down to reasonable brightness (80cdm/2=minimum PWM free brightness for many Eizo monitors) and support ridiculously low brightness/cdm/2 for people who like to wrap and drape blankets around their head and monitor when using monitors in a light-less room.
 
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I used both within a couple days of each other and the coating looked exactly the same to me.


spc said:
So this Seiki monitor doesn't have the same glossy LCD finish like Philips has?
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cptcorn said:
I'd say the screen is between glossy and matte.

I do graphic design for a living... I would have never noticed unless someone told me to test it.

Gallery:
http://imgur.com/a/4RzTb

The little distortion line in the middle of the magenta is the the clear edge of the cd. Photos of top and right.
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I appreciate the photo. That isn't as bad as I've dreaded, but it still puts me at a loss. Chances are that this screen and the Phillips use the same pannel. Which means I've got to be wary of any 40" 4K VA pannel for the next few years... UUgh... I don't know wether to bite the bullet and just buy it and deal with non-square pixels, or wait for ages for a new cheap 40" non TN 60hz 4k screen...

Deal breaker time: will it do 1080p or 1440p at above 60 Hz? Because that would make up for the lack of shape accuracy.
 
KazeoHin said:
I appreciate the photo. That isn't as bad as I've dreaded, but it still puts me at a loss. Chances are that this screen and the Phillips use the same pannel. Which means I've got to be wary of any 40" 4K VA pannel for the next few years... UUgh... I don't know wether to bite the bullet and just buy it and deal with non-square pixels, or wait for ages for a new cheap 40" non TN 60hz 4k screen...

Deal breaker time: will it do 1080p or 1440p at above 60 Hz? Because that would make up for the lack of shape accuracy.
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What do you do that this would effect you?

Once I have my 30/60hz issue sorted I'll start testing other standard resolutions beyond 60hz. My 39" Seiki can do 120 at 1920x1080. Would be surprised if this couldn't do it.
 
NCX said:
The real question is why you think 60 nits that isn't low enough. There are many PWM free monitors with sub 60 nit minimum brightness. The answer to why a manufacturer does anything is almost always "to save money," and because it is easier to use PWM to maintain the colour temperature at very low brightness. It's also part of companies like Eizos marketing since they appear to cater to everyone by selling monitors which are PWM free down to reasonable brightness (80cdm/2=minimum PWM free brightness for many Eizo monitors) and support ridiculously low brightness/cdm/2 for people who like to wrap and drape blankets around their head and monitor when using monitors in a light-less room.
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So which one `PWM free` monitor is supporting < 60 nits?
I'm waiting..... :eek:

What do you consider `reasonable` is HIGHLY subjective (as me too), so why to argue `200hz is enough for me` from my side and `60 nits is enough for me` from your side? :eek:

`The real question is why you think 60 nits that isn't low enough` ----> Can you understand that IT SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT `THINKING` but about your comfortable vision and `what your eyes tell you`???
Or in fact don't you see `evil` PWM with your own eyes and you just `think` that it is bad because you read about it??? That's sad.... :(

According you is `ridiculously low brightness` 80 nits, according me is `ridiculously high brightness` 60 nits and 20khz backlight which causes it...

So the REAL QUESTION is why manufacturers use 200hz or 20khz when with `something between` the can offer both non flickering backlight and low brightness possibility???
That's what intereses me like an engineer and not argues with someone anonymous trying me to persuade to suffer eye-strain instead ;)
 
cptcorn said:
What do you do that this would effect you?

Once I have my 30/60hz issue sorted I'll start testing other standard resolutions beyond 60hz. My 39" Seiki can do 120 at 1920x1080. Would be surprised if this couldn't do it.
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I do 3D art. Whipping around a model frantically looking for defects and whatnot, that tiny bit of stretch could play havoc with my sense of perspective. Rotate a mesh one way, it's X axis looks too fat, rotate it the other way, it's Y axis looks to fat... Turn it to the side and look above, now the whole thing is skewed... I know its only a tiny amount, but still. Part of my job as a 3D artist is to be able to pick out imperfections, especially ones with shape.
 
spc said:
So which one `PWM free` monitor is supporting < 60 nits?
Click to expand...

I'll let you waste time browsing through reviews by Daywalker (Pro Hardware Poland), =DEAD=, Extra Hardware CZ, TFT Central, Playerwares, PRAD, NCX (me), Svete Hardware, ect...

spc said:
What do you consider `reasonable` is HIGHLY subjective (as me too), so why to argue `200hz is enough for me` from my side and `60 nits is enough for me` from your side? :eek:
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Low frequency PWM increases more motion blur, causes artifacts and combined with LCD sample and hold blur, negates any sharpness benefits higher resolutions can offer when not viewing static content.

spc said:
`The real question is why you think 60 nits that isn't low enough` ----> Can you understand that IT SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT `THINKING` but about your comfortable vision and `what your eyes tell you`???
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Sure I can, but I also know that such low brightness levels appeals to very, very few people who likely sit extremely close to their monitor and sit in a light-less room instead of using bias lighting or room lighting to counter a displays brightness.

spc said:
Or in fact don't you see `evil` PWM with your own eyes and you just `think` that it is bad because you read about it??? That's sad.... :(
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I've tested many monitors and can tell the difference between one with a low PWM frequency and one without with viewing media in motion with V-Sync. I can see flickering and my eyes tend to dry up and hurt after using a monitor with a low PWM frequency, as well as CRTs set to 60hz for more than a few hours.

spc said:
So the REAL QUESTION is why manufacturers use 200hz or 20khz when with `something between` the can offer both non flickering backlight and low brightness possibility???
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Only the engineers from LCD manufacturers can answer this, but only a naive person will think that cost is not one of the most determining factors.
 
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KazeoHin said:
I do 3D art. Whipping around a model frantically looking for defects and whatnot, that tiny bit of stretch could play havoc with my sense of perspective. Rotate a mesh one way, it's X axis looks too fat, rotate it the other way, it's Y axis looks to fat... Turn it to the side and look above, now the whole thing is skewed... I know its only a tiny amount, but still. Part of my job as a 3D artist is to be able to pick out imperfections, especially ones with shape.
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Cool. Well I wish I could help more. I'd say buy it, amazon has a great return policy. :p
 
spc said:
So which one `PWM free` monitor is supporting < 60 nits?
I'm waiting..... :eek:
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My Dell 2515h is flicker free, reaches 74 cd/m² at 10% brightness and 35cd/m² at 0% brightness setting, for a whooping 1:1168 contrast.

The XB270HU, a 144Hz panel, does 52cd/m² at 0% brightness with 1:1059 contrast

So yes, you are partially correct in complaining that PWM free monitors have higher luminosity and can become eye scorching beasts but, as long as one does a proper research before buying, there are options, some even better at this metric that PWM monitors. The dell 3415 does 52 cd/m² at 10% brightness and goes all the way down to 15.85 cd/m² at 0% brightness, :cool:
 
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Got the screen, I got DP 1.2 with 4:4:4 4k @ 60Hz working flawlessly with my OC'd GTX 770. Two complaints:

The semi-gloss film. Blacks and colors look nice, but whites and grey look horrible to me. It is grainy, like I'm looking through wet glass. It bothers me too much.

With PIP, the small picture changes the coloring of the big picture horizontally and vertically all the way across the screen. It is quite an annoyance.

I might be returning it for a 1440p IPS or wait see how Samsungs UE590 and UE850 are.
 
KazeoHin said:
I appreciate the photo. That isn't as bad as I've dreaded, but it still puts me at a loss. Chances are that this screen and the Phillips use the same pannel. Which means I've got to be wary of any 40" 4K VA pannel for the next few years... UUgh... I don't know wether to bite the bullet and just buy it and deal with non-square pixels, or wait for ages for a new cheap 40" non TN 60hz 4k screen...

Deal breaker time: will it do 1080p or 1440p at above 60 Hz? Because that would make up for the lack of shape accuracy.
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I got 1920x1080@75hz to work anything beyond that I get an OSD msg saying that mode isn't supported. When I do 2560x1440@30/60/75 It shows the screen but it's scaled to 1080. However, I'm still having issues of 60hz not sticking, so I wouldn't trust any of this as normal.

One other thing I noticed is no standard 16:9 resolutions are listed under the PC section in the nvidia control panel. I can get 3840x2160 to appear if I set 60hz in the Advanced Options for the monitor (it doesn't change the working display to 60hz) but, when I then unplug the connection, plug it back in the resolution will be available to select under PC. Selecting it and then applying results in hit or miss whether or not it stays on, if not it just defaults to 30hz. It will always then move the resolution back up to the UHD/HD/SD section.
 
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"""I'll let you waste time browsing through reviews by Daywalker (Pro Hardware Poland), =DEAD=, Extra Hardware CZ, TFT Central, Playerwares, PRAD, NCX (me), Svete Hardware, ect..."""


Heh, these sites are mostly not unknown for me... Lot of them i have in bookmarks and check daily, some of them are even `domestic` for me ;)
But i still found NO monitor with <60nits and no PWM - but it can be my fault because i basicaly ignore every TN screen (piece of shit), every screen under 30" (too small) and even super wide 34" I'm checking just briefly...



"""Low frequency PWM increases more motion blur, causes artifacts and combined with LCD sample and hold blur, negates any sharpness benefits higher resolutions can offer when not viewing static content."""

I agree, using lowest possible frequency is not good - that's why i'm interested WHY? For what reason?



""Sure I can, but I also know that such low brightness levels appeals to very, very few people who likely sit extremely close to their monitor and sit in a light-less room instead of using bias lighting or room lighting to counter a displays brightness.""

That has no sense to argue - it is like arguing that near nobody needs long gear in transmission because speed limits aren't allowing them to really need it :rolleyes:
Again for me personaly the 60 nits at the evening is torture and even wasting of energy.
And If you watching MOVIES then with 30 nits you get much better `black`....



"""I've tested many monitors and can tell the difference between one with a low PWM frequency and one without with viewing media in motion with V-Sync. I can see flickering and my eyes tend to dry up and hurt after using a monitor with a low PWM frequency, as well as CRTs set to 60hz for more than a few hours."""

Of course it is visible if you look, but to be honest for example i have now 32" ACER monitor with terrible overdrive overshoot (which can not be disabled at all) and IT IS DISASTER in no way comparable witch effect you are mentioning :(
I tried this monitor because it supports 30 nits and not just 60 nits like benq.


"""Only the engineers from LCD manufacturers can answer this, but only a naive person will think that cost is not one of the most determining factors.""""

Of course, but from electrical way it is just question to change one resistor or capacitor to different value... (so the same cost)
There has to be some other reason (I suspect maybe shielding of created field under 20khz is difficult - it is in audible range)
 
geok1ng said:
My Dell 2515h is flicker free, reaches 74 cd/m² at 10% brightness and 35cd/m² at 0% brightness setting, for a whooping 1:1168 contrast.

The XB270HU, a 144Hz panel, does 52cd/m² at 0% brightness with 1:1059 contrast

So yes, you are partially correct in complaining that PWM free monitors have higher luminosity and can become eye scorching beasts but, as long as one does a proper research before buying, there are options, some even better at this metric that PWM monitors. The dell 3415 does 52 cd/m² at 10% brightness and goes all the way down to 15.85 cd/m² at 0% brightness, :cool:
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Right, the Dell looks really OK (i'm curious which frequency is using, just 10khz should be enough for +-10% of nominal value according datasheets)

Unfortunately for me (as i wrote sooner) I personaly ignore everything under 30" and of course terrible TN screens... :D

I assure you that i'm doing so much research (even reading russian sites :) ) that i'm literally spending the half of my life with it -> but i'm clueless...
As a Seiki is not available in Europe you can see that I tell the truth, i'm checking everything even just for curiosity.
 
NCX said:
NCX (me)
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I see you are doing lot of reviews...
Maybe you can ask some manufacturers from your position WHY? (specific technical reason)

I'm doing this just like hobby for my personal use, but the ANSWER can help me to aviod loosing my time trying to adjust my own screen to lower frequency (=lower brightness) and I will have to use straight 200hz from the beginning (and you understand why I don't like this idea).

It looks like i have to do this, because there is no screen over 30" available, that supports at least 30 nits and has no serious flaws :(

btw. like reviewer you should be more understanding for people's needs and priorities different like yours personal (like low brighness).
 
Additional. Just tried hooking up the USB3.0 hub... I can see it in device manager, but I cannot see anything that's connected to it...
 
have this sitting on my desk right now and I'm trying to figure out what the best settings to calibrate it might be. Does anyone have any links or suggestions?
 
New DP cable just arrived. Fixed all the resolution issues. So if you're having any issue with 30/60hz change the cable.
 
cptcorn said:
New DP cable just arrived. Fixed all the resolution issues. So if you're having any issue with 30/60hz change the cable.
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yeah I noticed the same thing here. the provided dp cable kept having issues so I plugged in the one from my sammy 28 4k and now everything is perfect. It's like having my eyefinity setup again but with no bezels and better pixel density.
 
is there an easy way to test it? it seems normally quick to me, but I'm certainly no expert at telling these things just by feel.
 
FYI, this panel will not do 60Hz on an Apple product - at least not on a 2013 Mac Pro - Apple will only do 60Hz with MST, and this panel appears (per TFTCentral) to be SST.
 
Amazon has this in stock now for shipping. About to pull the trigger. Honestly like the stand for it better than the Phillips one , figure with a Square Trade warranty to get a couple years past the one year Seiki warranty it should be fairly safe to do.

Just wondered if as long as I get another display port cable I shouldn't have weirdo issues keeping 60hz 4:4:4 for general gaming use on it ?

Any reason to wait for the Phillips even longer over this one ?
 
Dahkoht said:
Amazon has this in stock now for shipping. About to pull the trigger. Honestly like the stand for it better than the Phillips one , figure with a Square Trade warranty to get a couple years past the one year Seiki warranty it should be fairly safe to do.

Just wondered if as long as I get another display port cable I shouldn't have weirdo issues keeping 60hz 4:4:4 for general gaming use on it ?

Any reason to wait for the Phillips even longer over this one ?
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I've been gaming 4k at 60hz...
iracing 60fps
war thunder 60fps
battlefield4 50fps
RO2 60fps
WOW 40-60fps

All with AA off.
 
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cptcorn said:
I've been gaming 4k at 60hz...
iracing 60fps
war thunder 60fps
battlefield4 50fps
RO2 60fps

All with AA off.
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Awesome , I'm fine with AA off , especially at that res , if most other settings can be decent.

Mind if I ask what video card setup you are using ?
 
Dahkoht said:
Awesome , I'm fine with AA off , especially at that res , if most other settings can be decent.

Mind if I ask what video card setup you are using ?
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Yeah AA isn't need at 4k, atleast that's my opinion.

970M x2
 
cptcorn said:
New DP cable just arrived. Fixed all the resolution issues. So if you're having any issue with 30/60hz change the cable.
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Which cable fixed the issues for you? Can you link to it?

Dahkoht said:
Any reason to wait for the Phillips even longer over this one ?
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I'd like to know the same thing, as I've been waiting several months for the Philips. I have it pre-ordered from Amazon and would be willing to cancel that one and order this one if there are no advantages to the Philips (besides warranty and slimmer bezels).

The main thing I'd like to know is, does the Seiki have the same level of color reproduction as the Philips? I've read the entire thread and in the first two pages there was a lot of discussion about the Seiki not being able to display as many colors...I don't recall that issue ever being put to bed.
 
cptcorn said:
Additional. Just tried hooking up the USB3.0 hub... I can see it in device manager, but I cannot see anything that's connected to it...
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I'm hoping this monitor doesn't have the same quality issues that the older 4k seikis do where most had at least some kind of issue. 1 hdmi port on mine stopped working, seems to be common from what I have seen.
 
imyourzero said:
Which cable fixed the issues for you? Can you link to it?
....
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I got this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C7RJQPY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
munkle said:
I'm hoping this monitor doesn't have the same quality issues that the older 4k seikis do where most had at least some kind of issue. 1 hdmi port on mine stopped working, seems to be common from what I have seen.
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Honestly, I had no real "failure" issues with my 39" Seiki... only thing I disliked so much was 30hz, and the terrible sound output.
 
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