Seiki 39" 4K HDTV $650

Ducman69

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No one here is even talking about using this panel for 4k gaming, and yet you're grasping onto, and contradicting your own arguments at the same time.
This is what irks me, if you want to disagree with my opinions that is fine, but it is extremely annoying to have to explain myself ad nauseum because some people can't manage to skim over more than a micro-blurb.

I have specifically stated that 4K gaming is moot, and you are using a quote where I am specifically explaining why the refresh rate it is capable of at 4K is entirely moot because an average guy even on [H] is not going to have enough performance to push gaming at that resolution at a reasonable average framerate anyway. I don't know how much more infintile and basic I can explain that than I have already.

And this monitor is capable of 120hz, so as I have said multiple times if you prefer to run your games at lower resolution (1080p) so that you can enjoy average framerates in the 120s then you can. As I have also already stated, if you are like me and I think most of us you will find that maxing a games graphics settings to their highest and playing at 2560x1440 will be much more attractive than lower graphics settings or lower resolution gaming to get your framerate up, and averaging around 60fps the 60hz refresh rate is not a limitation. The 4K is very useful again as already explained for desktop use, unless as I've already stated you are anal about the mouse cursor, as generally your IMing, emailing, forum posting, and web browsing is static, and its great for multitasking or photoshop/premiere editing (where you're just doing 30fps footage anyway 99% of the time).

So to recap for those still herping the derp that barely passed highschool English:
1) If you aren't running an average much over 60hz at 2560x1440 you don't need to worry about 60hz.
2) If you're one of those "must have framerate" freaks that insists on reducing your graphics settings or resolution to 1080p for 120hz action because you think it looks better, you can do that with this set.
3) The 4K resolution is nice for having a crapton of desktop realestate.
 

Lysdexik

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I fully get using it as a monitor (which cnet even brings up), but the only place I see that being useful is having many spreadsheets/browsers up at the same time on the same screen. I just don't feel personally that its worth it for the loss in picture quality in games/movies/etc... Plus how chuggy even normal desktop usage feels at 30Hz.

This is a TV, so Amazon will price match if you chat with them.


Again, I cant see the point in getting this to use for 1080P/120Hz, when it looks so bad.

The bundle isn't shipped & sold by Amazon so I don't believe they will price match. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

They may match just the TV however: http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-Digital...UTF8&qid=1375367547&sr=8-1&keywords=seiki+39"
 
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Objekt

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Wow. I think I figured out what my next desktop monitor will be like, once my CRT gets so dim/out of focus that I don't care to use it any longer.
 

stealthy123

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So any of you guys bought one of these yet?

I am really tempted, I want a 1440p monitor but I think 27 inches is too small for that resolution for my eyes, and this might be a perfect size for my situation.
 

Lysdexik

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So any of you guys bought one of these yet?

I am really tempted, I want a 1440p monitor but I think 27 inches is too small for that resolution for my eyes, and this might be a perfect size for my situation.

I am wondering the same thing as I am in the market for a new monitor.
 

PynkFloydd

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I'd love to see this thing set up somewhere.

I stopped into a Tiger Direct and was underwhelmed. I played with the settings for a bit with the 4k video demo clip that was looping through a PC. Overall, there were a few moments where the image was sharper than 1080p, but the compression artifacts were much worse. ...this could have been a problem with the demo clip though.

Compared to my Samsung LN46C630, I thought my Samsung looked way better overall. The contrast on the Seiki wasn't that good and the quality was comparable to a 1st gen. Insignia LCD that I had a long, long time ago. I still prefer using an old Panasonic LCD TV with an IPS display or a plasma TV for the overall picture quality. The extra onscreen real estate was nice, but the quality was exactly what you would expect to get for the price. They didn't have any games loaded to try the resolution, so it might have been a better experience. I'd be curious to hear what an owner of the Seiki has to say.
 

Fooshnik

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I have no doubt it's a crappy TV, I think most people here are concerned with it's use as a monitor. My HP LP3065 would make for one craptacular TV but is fantastic for desktop use and gaming. Buying this to use solely as a TV would be nearly 100% pointless. I'm more concerned with how sharp the text is and if the backlight is bothersome when viewed from 22" (being LED, I wouldn't suspect that to be the case).
 

Cecil

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I have no doubt it's a crappy TV, I think most people here are concerned with it's use as a monitor. My HP LP3065 would make for one craptacular TV but is fantastic for desktop use and gaming. Buying this to use solely as a TV would be nearly 100% pointless. I'm more concerned with how sharp the text is and if the backlight is bothersome when viewed from 22" (being LED, I wouldn't suspect that to be the case).

That's why on the sentence that you quoted me on, I said I cant see why someone would get it to play games at 1080P/120Hz (if that even worked). Desktop use is the only purpose I can see for this. Even then, this part would stray me away.

light black levels, poor screen uniformity, and subpar video processing.
 

Ducman69

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And on the 39in, 1080P doesn't work at 120Hz, it drops frames.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1774415
I wouldn't accept this as fact, as I'm reading reviews everywhere (albeit of the 50") and can't find that comment confirmed anywhere, and I would wager you haven't confirmed it yourself either.

Also note that reviews vary, such as Gizmodo's comment "How the Hell Is a TV This Beautiful So Cheap".

In my research though, I see that this set has actually been much cheaper before:
http://slickdeals.net/f/6149048-Sei...tForums-9+(Hot+Deals+-+SlickDeals.net+Forums)

Check the official threads on AVS forum, there's a lot of discussion about calibration but nothing about poor quality or framerate issues. It is an ultra-thin edge-lit LCD panel, and thus should not be contrasted with thick plasmas for example, but against other edge-lit LCDs which from everything I have read it does very well against. I have a very expensive edge-lit Samsung 55" right now, and I know the uniformity will suffer slightly but I appreciate the power efficiency, light weight, and ultra-thin design far more and thus sold my 50" plasma. Apples to apples.
 

Cecil

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If you read the thread I linked to, there is a bunch of issues that users on this site have. The 50in will do 120hz, but the 39in has issues.

Also, 1080P LED TVs can be had for less money that have far better PQ.


You cant honestly think a TV that's 1/4 or less of the price of competing sets is actually a quality TV. You get what you pay for.
 

Ducman69

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If you read the thread I linked to, there is a bunch of issues that users on this site have. The 50in will do 120hz, but the 39in has issues.
Like what? I saw zero first hand accounts in that thread or a search or on AVS forum.
Also, 1080P LED TVs can be had for less money that have far better PQ.
According to whome? And you'd really want a 39" 1080p desktop? Fail. I have a 2560x1600 now and would never downgrade that low again.
You cant honestly think a TV that's 1/4 or less of the price of competing sets is actually a quality TV. You get what you pay for.
I believe in first hand accounts, I read the thread about LCD price fixing that the main major manufacturers were recently busted for, and have seen one of the other Korean branded LCDs selling for half the price using the exact same LCD panel in the chassis that we buy at a 200%+ markup for having a name brand on. :cool:
 

Cecil

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Like what? I saw zero first hand accounts in that thread or a search or on AVS forum.

According to whome? And you'd really want a 39" 1080p desktop? Fail. I have a 2560x1600 now and would never downgrade that low again.

I believe in first hand accounts, I read the thread about LCD price fixing that the main major manufacturers were recently busted for, and have seen one of the other Korean branded LCDs selling for half the price using the exact same LCD panel in the chassis that we buy at a 200%+ markup for having a name brand on. :cool:

There is a huge Seiki 4K thread in the Display section, look around a bit.


Did I say anything about a 39" 1080P for desktop? No, I specifically stated the only thing this TV has going for it is 4K use in a desktop environment. But the PQ would drive me nuts.


The Koreans do not have the same panels. They have A- panels, which is why so many of them have dead pixels or excessive backlight bleed.

There is also far more to a display then the panel used.


If you don't want to accept that its a sub par quality cheap brand TV, that's up to you. But Ive provided links that provide negative reviews towards the PQ.
 

Ducman69

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If you don't want to accept that its a sub par quality cheap brand TV, that's up to you. But Ive provided links that provide negative reviews towards the PQ.
I only saw the one link you provided, the one to CNET. The one to another hardforum thread, no one that owns the set has said anything but good things about it and certainly no first hand accounts that I can find about something being wrong with the 120hz dropping frames which was the whole point of contention.

Amazon reviews are favorable:
http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-Digital-SE50UY04-50-Inch-120Hz/dp/B00BXF7I9M

I read through both AVSforum threads about it, and other than the factory calibration being bad, which is correctable and they have settings in the threads for it, I couldn't find anything about dropping frames. That's important. This seems the most unbiased cliffs-notes review:

PROS:

+ Thin design
+ Great value for a 4K TV
+ Contrast ratio
+ Vibrant colors and accuracy
+ Viewing angles
+ Picture quality
+ LED Backlit
+ 1080p Gaming @ 120 Hz
+ Good scaling of "Normal HD" content to 4k
+ Ultra HD 4K Resolution!
+ 3 HDMI Inputs

CONS:

- OTA TV Issues (Noise Reduction & A/V Sync)
- Limited Menu Options (i.e. Picture Adjustments)
- Can't adjust 120 Hz setting
- HDMI 1.4 limited to 30 Hz @ 4k.
- Input Lag @ 4K/30Hz
- Cheap Remote
- Low quality speakers
- No DisplayPort Input
- No Optical Out (It does have Coaxial for S/PDIF)
- Wobbly Stand
 

Cecil

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The thread I linked had someone post the issues in a single combined post, so it was easy to read. A few minutes of leg work, in the really big thread, and you can easily find all of it.

To summarize the negatives:
- Only 30 hz at native resolution
- 120 hz doesn't work properly and skips frames, confirmed by numerous [H] users (buggy firmware?)
- 24 hz also doesn't work properly (judder)
- Does not support 4:4:4 subsampling, even in RGB mode (blurry colored text)
- Bad input lag (over 50ms on the Bodnar lag tester)
- It's a TV and not a monitor so it is hard to calibrate to correct colors and gamma
- No DPMI power on-wake support (must manually turn on)
- Bug in firmware resets the backlight setting on power-on if you adjust it

The positives are large screen real estate and cheap price.
Also, I haven't seen many reports of dead pixels.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040087161&postcount=3


My 39 inch seiki arrived. Anyway it acts differently than the 50 inch. It will take 31Hz @3840x2160 and 120hz @ 1080p and 240hz @ 720p just like the 50 inch display but when I give it > 31 hz unlike the 50 inch which activates its scaler and generates a really crappy looking picture the display appears to just turn off the panel.

I can't even access the OSD/menu/input selection when its getting a >31 Hz signal it just goes totally blank until I reset the display or I switch to a lower refresh rate mode.

Version info on the 39 inch:

Baseline Ver: 52 -> Screem goes black when I try to go into this menu for baseline version.

Order Form: SY13148
Board Ver: ST2975K_R10.3
Panel Info: CMI_V390DK1_LS1
Customer: SEIKI
Produce Date: May 24 2013
Produce Time 19:31:20
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040059175&postcount=236



Very disappointing new (for me). Although the 39 inch model accepts 120 and 240Hz modes just like the 50 inch unlike the 50 inch I found that at 1920x1080 @120hz and 1280x720@240Hz the panel is only updating at 60 Hz where as the 50 inch updates at 120Hz at both of those modes. Really hoping that a firmware update fixes this as not being able to do 120Hz natively is a big disappointment for me. Due to this it seemed like quite a bit more input lag due to the fact that frames are getting dropped.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040060060&postcount=239



And nevermind looked back a few pages and saw you have the 39 inch.

So you alamone and I have all verified that it frame skips and does not do 120Hz natively. No big surprise here. It works on the 50 inch though. I am still waiting to hear back from seiki about this. I might stop by their HQ again if I don't get an email response by tomorrow. I emailed them on the 20th and no response so far...
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040071325&postcount=279



Also, Alamone has blurred red text,
Might be hard to tell from this but you can see that the pixels are blurred for "epileptic"
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040077861&postcount=301



Whole thread here - > http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1756171&page=16


That enough for you?




Also, 99% of Amazon reviewers are average Joes who don't know anything they are talking about. And the majority are just buying their first, maybe second screen and have nothing to compare it to. So its "good enough" for them, and they want to justify their new purchase, so they post a raving review about it.
 

Cecil

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http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Elect...1375481386&sr=8-1&keywords=samsung+un39fh5000

39" NOT edge lit LED 1080P for under $400. That would be better in every way except fitting more stuff on the screen in desktop usage.

One of my PCs is setup with a 40in 1080P Samsung LCD, and really even at 2ft away you cant see the pixels. The whole 1080P on a large screen thing is blown way out of proportion. A couple years ago everyone was happy with their big 1080P displays, but ever since 2560 became cheap, its just the new forum boner.


Im not saying I don't like higher res, just that it doesn't make 1080P un-usable. Heck, last year I had a 43" 1366x768 plasma for one of my setups and it was fine.
 

Ducman69

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One of my PCs is setup with a 40in 1080P Samsung LCD, and really even at 2ft away you cant see the pixels. The whole 1080P on a large screen thing is blown way out of proportion. A couple years ago everyone was happy with their big 1080P displays, but ever since 2560 became cheap, its just the new forum boner.
Eh no, and 1080p is OK for little screens, but its a rare breed that would accept such low resolution on a 40" as a desktop monitor. Sure its subjective, but.... yech! Its almost 2014, there is no reason to have such low standards.
 

Fooshnik

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Yeah, 2560x1600 I can see pixels and stairstepping at normal viewing distance. If cards would drive it, I'd love to have a retina quality 30" even though Windows support for such high lpi is fail.

It's a good sign, though, that these are hitting this price point so early. The ASUS 31.5" 4K will do 60Hz but at $3500 I probably won't even have my company buy it for me.
 

rudy

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Wow prices on 4K are starting out very low and very affordable! I like this trend!

The Chinese want to step up and they are starting a full scale assault on the display market. This will be fun for us at least. Depending on how it goes the Chinese might do exactly what the Japanese did the US display market. Total extinction.


Also people don't argue over 4K gaming, the fact is a monitor can last you many more years than your current GPU and other hardware and you are going to want to know if you are dropping $600 if that monitor will be able to take advantage of the hardware you will have in 18 months. And all of that ignores the fact that something's like AA can be completely turned off if the monitor is set further back on the desk.
 
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quiktake

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It has proven time and time again. Contrast it more important to the human eye than resolution. Our brains are very good at "filling in the details" when high contrast exists.

Get a good high contrast plasma or LCD rather than this lesser quality 4k TV. For computer monitor use, I can't see too many uses for this.
 

SixFootDuo

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What I see here is a lot of people wanting so hard to believe in this product that they are throwing out any shred of common sense. Yeah it's 4K, it's cheap but ... stop trying so hard. Common sense anyone?

It's a first gen 4k HDTV. There are some glaring capabilities missing coupled with the fact it's a first generation set, below average quality should make most people willing to use common sense enough information in the first minute of research to avoid this set.

I'm sure improvements to this set make many potential buyers to reconsider this set down the road.
 
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