Seattle Man Wins Small Claims Case Against Apple

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HardOCP News

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Chalk one up for the little guy. :cool:

He says that Apple attempted to have the case dismissed by claiming that his computer was not part of the company's replacement program because his CPU was clocked at 2.6Ghz, while the press release for the replacement program says 2.5Ghz. The judge wasn't buying that, nor was he apparently buying any of Apple's arguments for why it should not have repaired the computer for free.
 

Serpent

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Indeed...

seriously, wtf was APple thinking, the CPU had nothing to do with it, and that was their defense?
 

Elios

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5 bucks he buys another Apple laptop and gets 98% of that settlement right back lol
 

MavericK

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There are a lot of anti-Apple news pieces posted but, this one is pretty legit. What a bunch of scumbags.
 

MavericK

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Here are a couple choice quotes I thought were LOL-worthy:

After listening to Apple, the judge turned to me and asked for my response, and I explained to him, in detail, that the chips, logic boards, and GPUs in all of the MacBook Pro models were the same, regardless of the speed at which the CPUs had been clocked.

Confused, the judge turned to Apple and asked, “Is this true?”

There was some awkward silence as the Apple guys exchanged uncomfortable looks between each other, before one of them finally said “Yes, it is.”

“So, this machine IS covered by the 8600GT repair program?”, asked the judge.

“Yes it is, your honor”, replied Apple.

So, there we were. Not more than 2 minutes into the trial, and Apple conceded to trying to hoodwink the judge.

Apple, well, they didn’t really have a defense. They just kept repeating things like “It’s Apple’s policy to do this”, and “It’s Apple’s position that we do that”. The Apple guys seemed genuinely surprised that I knew as much as I did about computer hardware. I’m not trying to insult iPeople, at least not in this article, but during both mediation and the trial, I realized that Apple has a strong expectation that their users not be tech-savvy and, as such, Apple seems used to infantilizing and bamboozling their customers with silly and nonsensical explanations of highly technical matters.

At least the judge seemed to actually care about the specifics of the case and not just make a snap ruling.
 

todlerix

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5 bucks he buys another Apple laptop and gets 98% of that settlement right back lol

Buy an Asus/HP/Dell laptop.

Spend $200 on a custom paint job to look like an apple.

Buy this http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Vinyl-D...TIS8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1334700512&sr=8-3

Save $800.00

Iphone cases have one thing in common
NQhPs.png


Not Iphone
uOlUv.png


It is like people who don't like kindles e-readers because other people dont know they are reading a book/what book they are reading.
 

MavericK

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I also thought this was an extremely valid truth:

Gone are the days of the scrappy underdog, throwing a hammer through the window of conformity, and what has emerged is … well, it’s far worse than what it was rebelling against.

Apple has become the Orwellian nightmare that it warned us about some 30 years ago. A huge vehicle of sameness backed by legions of newthink practitioners, gleefully cheering as Big Bully annihilates one thoughtcriminal after another.

Huge amounts of irony.
 

mope54

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the blog post detailing the full story sounds like bullshit and the "facts" as he described them are incorrect

be surprised if this is even a real case and if it is real then the judge wasn't anything other than lied to
 

MoFoQ

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funny thing...they don't cover it in the original article nor in the comments....

it costs apple nothing because they just pass the cost to the *cough*manufacturer*cough* that supplied them with the faulty chip.

Oh the G92 debacle....brings back some memories.
 

sfsuphysics

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Wonder how much it cost Apple to fly (or where these Apple store employees) to Seattle to deal with a small claims case. Gotta love small claims, easiest way for the little guy to prevail in everyday cases instead of letting a lawyer go class action, you want $300 for the cost to repair your system, and after all is said and done here's your check for $22.95

I'm confused though, they said they agreed on arbitration but couldn't come to an agreement, I was under the impression if you went that direction you were agreeing to live by what the arbitration says.
 

qbanb8582

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I got no sympathy for apple. This makes them look worse and it would've been cheaper to just fix the damn thing.

Doubt they'll learn, I hate when companies don't honor their warranty terms.
 

Cyraxx

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So wait, I'm a bit confused - did the guy overclock his processor to attain that difference? Or is Apple just pissing on their customers (and regardless of the case, the customer would open his mouth and say "Can I have another, sir?")
 

BoogerBomb

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I got no sympathy for apple. This makes them look worse and it would've been cheaper to just fix the damn thing.

Doubt they'll learn, I hate when companies don't honor their warranty terms.

Did his warranty stipulate any frequency limits? If it did and he exceeded them then the guy should just eat it. If it doesnt then Apple should eat it. Get shit in writing next time.
 

Teenk9

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So wait, I'm a bit confused - did the guy overclock his processor to attain that difference? Or is Apple just pissing on their customers (and regardless of the case, the customer would open his mouth and say "Can I have another, sir?")

In his original blog post he said he paid Apple $300 to factory OC the cpu.
 

overclock

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Apphole spent more in lawyer fees than just fixing the laptop. But the stock probably went up.
 

Elios

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300 bucks for a 100mhz bump o_O wow i almost wish apple won now...
 

mope54

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So wait, I'm a bit confused - did the guy overclock his processor to attain that difference? Or is Apple just pissing on their customers (and regardless of the case, the customer would open his mouth and say "Can I have another, sir?")
basically he had a model that was different from the ones included in the out of warranty replacement program but he lied to the judge and claimed that all MacBooks are the same internally so his should be included also

it's not clear how or why the judge would award him full purchase price years after using the product but as I wrote earlier the way it's described means the story is fabricated or the judge was lied to and made an faulty ruling
 

Elios

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basically he had a model that was different from the ones included in the out of warranty replacement program but he lied to the judge and claimed that all MacBooks are the same internally so his should be included also

it's not clear how or why the judge would award him full purchase price years after using the product but as I wrote earlier the way it's described means the story is fabricated or the judge was lied to and made an faulty ruling

no it was the same model effectively
same mobo and same GPU and same CPU
just the CPU was clocked 100mhz faster....
 

mope54

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no it was the same model effectively
same mobo and same GPU and same CPU
just the CPU was clocked 100mhz faster....
sorry, that's not how recalls, warranties, out of warranty repairs work

not with apple, not with dell, not with hp, not with amd, and not with nvidia
 

Elios

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sorry, that's not how recalls, warranties, out of warranty repairs work

not with apple, not with dell, not with hp, not with amd, and not with nvidia

soo just because he payed extra(stupid amount imo) for an "upgrade" option on the same model its not the same model any more?
 

Teenk9

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basically he had a model that was different from the ones included in the out of warranty replacement program but he lied to the judge and claimed that all MacBooks are the same internally so his should be included also

it's not clear how or why the judge would award him full purchase price years after using the product but as I wrote earlier the way it's described means the story is fabricated or the judge was lied to and made an faulty ruling

Then Apple's reps are idiots then because when the judge asked them if this was true they agreed it was.

"
When it was Apple’s turn, their representatives opened by throwing a hail mary pass. While holding up the press release outlining the 8600GT replacement program, they claimed that, because the CPU in my MacBook Pro was clocked at 2.6Ghz, and not 2.4Ghz, or 2.5Ghz as stated in the release, that I had a completely different computer … one that was not subject to the 4 year replacement program.

You see, when I ordered my MacBook Pro, I paid about $300 extra for them to up-clock the chip from 2.5Ghz to 2.6Ghz. Yes, it was a classic Apple ripoff, and yes, I was dumb to order it, but I did it, mea culpa.

I had absolutely no idea that it would be used against me in a court of law to explain to a judge why I should not be covered by an extended warranty, and it caught me off-guard. Perhaps, despite everything, I am still a bit naive, because not even I expected Apple to just … lie. At least not in such a silly manner.

Remember, I was not going up against the owner of some taco stand, I was up against the most profitable company in the USA. I honestly expected more than a silly fib.

After listening to Apple, the judge turned to me and asked for my response, and I explained to him, in detail, that the chips, logic boards, and GPUs in all of the MacBook Pro models were the same, regardless of the speed at which the CPUs had been clocked.

Confused, the judge turned to Apple and asked, “Is this true?”

There was some awkward silence as the Apple guys exchanged uncomfortable looks between each other, before one of them finally said “Yes, it is.”"
 

Elios

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gah lack of edit my guess is the model had some "options" when you went on the site to buy it
and the recall release just didnt mention them

what if it was extra ram and every thing else was the same? same thing
the recalled part was still the same i dont see how the CPU clock has any thing to do with it
 

mope54

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soo just because he payed extra(stupid amount imo) for an "upgrade" option on the same model its not the same model any more?
no, it's literally not the same model
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro

this can't be news to people on this board of all places
cpu's aren't the same and gpu's aren't the same and just "oc'ed"

they're different, entirely different chipsets and laptops in particular are segregated by their offerings. that means a 2.6 in a macbook has a specific meaning in relation to its production month and year. just because he has a 2.6 from 2008 (and it's not clear he did) does not mean it came from the same batch of 2.5's that were exhibiting the defect.
 

Teenk9

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Crap, missed some very important parts of the text.

" “So, this machine IS covered by the 8600GT repair program?”, asked the judge.

“Yes it is, your honor”, replied Apple.

So, there we were. Not more than 2 minutes into the trial, and Apple conceded to trying to hoodwink the judge."
 

Elios

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no, it's literally not the same model
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro

this can't be news to people on this board of all places
cpu's aren't the same and gpu's aren't the same and just "oc'ed"

they're different, entirely different chipsets and laptops in particular are segregated by their offerings. that means a 2.6 in a macbook has a specific meaning in relation to its production month and year. just because he has a 2.6 from 2008 (and it's not clear he did) does not mean it came from the same batch of 2.5's that were exhibiting the defect.

umm you need to work on your reading a bit here
it was the GPU not the CPU that was bad
in ALL the laptops it was a 8600GT
the speed of the CPU doesnt make the GPU any different and if you read the post youll see even Apple admits it was the same hardware
 

mope54

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umm you need to work on your reading a bit here
it was the GPU not the CPU that was bad
in ALL the laptops it was a 8600GT
the speed of the CPU doesnt make the GPU any different and if you read the post youll see even Apple admits it was the same hardware
it's interesting that you attempt to insult my reading comprehension when you can't seem to read a simple chart of model differences
I gave you the link that proves there are three different 8600GT's and at least four different chipsets (in contrast to your earlier claim that they are all the same models)

not to mention they are not all the same "models"
as I already pointed out, chip speed is one of the ways apple (and other vendors) separate their models

apple "admit's" it's covered according to this guy's story, which doesn't add up when you make a list of all the factual errors that either can't or won't happen in a small claims case

let's make a short list:
they went through arbitration (not in small claims)
he sued for punitive damages (not in small claims)
he was awarded the full purchase price of a 4+ used laptop that broke (not in small claims, or in any court case for that matter)
the respondent openly admitted that all MacBooks are internally identical (factually untrue and obviously unlikely for apple to state to a judge for various reasons)
the respondent openly admitted that the laptop was covered under the out of warranty offer but yet standing in court arguing they weren't going to honor it (unclear as to their position on why this might be the situation)

if you think the apple legal team is going to do the last two points then there isn't much point in discussing this with you any further because you're not being rational
 

mope54

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and in regards to your accusation that I can't read, well I can read quite well actually.

one of the things a careful reader would note is that he claims he took it in because his laptop wasn't booting up. they told him it was the logic board, which is not covered under the repair order. the faulty 8600's exhibited garbled output and in extreme cases failed output...not an unbootable computer.

his claim that if they replaced the 8600 they would only do so with an equally defective unit is also demonstrably untrue.

almost none of what he wrote squares with reality but it's something that most here on this board will eat up simply because it's vs. apple
but none of these things would hold up in any other context. certainly if you had a faulty nVidia card or dell laptop would you expect them to cover it under an alternate replacement program for a different chipset.
 

James21

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It is a very simple case of selling known defective goods and then lying to the customers about it.

The whole series of Nvidia mobile graphics chips from that generation were defective Specifically they used first generation lead free solder, that would eventually crack after repeated heating and cooling and render the graphics chip dead.

This became quickly known to all the major PC vendors, Apple, HP, Dell etc. So Nvidia settled with them all and gave them all a bunch of money and spare boards and everyone agreed to keep it quiet for the most part and hope to run out the clock on customer warranties, as even the replacement boards were going to fail as well (since they didn't actually fix the problem till the next generation)

So Apple, HP, Dell etc, all took a bunch of extra money and booked it into revenue and proceeded in trying to not tell their customers the truth and try to run the clock out on their warranties for extra profit.

I have personally seen several Dell laptops & HP laptops all fail the exact same way for the exact same reason. If you were still under warranty and knew how to tell them exactly what kind of liars they were, you could get it replaced, if you were out of warranty, you were totally out of luck.

The bottom line is Apple knew they had defective chips in their laptops just like everyone else in the industry did. They knew it had nothing to do with the CPUs or other logic boards on the system but it was all about the GPU.

They were hoping to run out the warranties on all their customers betting that since they underclocked the GPUs most of the time they ran cooler and may last longer than the warranty, or people may upgrade.

If you pay $4000 for a laptop and find out that the seller knew it had defective components that had a very good chance of breaking, you'd be pretty upset I would assume if you found out that even after pocketing a bunch of fix/hush/bribe money over it, they were trying to screw you over. That is unless of course, you love Apple so devotedly that you don't care what they do, you just want them to have all your money.

I bet if it was Dell or HP in the article everyone would be busy saying how bad they were instead of trying to defend them and say somehow that a different CPU clock is why they won't fix KNOWN bad components that they had promised to fix (so as to avoid everyone returning their $4000 laptops for a refund right after they got it).
 

mope54

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James21

you're misrepresenting the facts

apple extended all repairs 2 years past warranty coverage
when all MacBooks hadn't been accounted for they extended that coverage to three years
then they extended to four years
currently it's at five years past purchase...because it's 2012 and any affected laptops were purchased no earlier than 2008

so clearly it's not a case of apple waiting out customers' warranties but nice attempt on the FUD
 

James21

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Still is running out the warranties, Apple, HP, Dell etc, still have never fixed the issue, if you manage to get a replacement it will still be with the same defective chips. They figured that after going to 5 years they could pretty much figure that people would upgrade by then or at least have forgotten how much it cost.

Apple, Dell, HP and such, all got paid a lot of money by Nvidia to keep it quiet and extend warranties if they wished.
 

Bash

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Keep up the good fight mope54, im sure someone somewhere has some idea of what you are arguing.
 

Bash

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"MB766*/A"
"2.5 GHz (T9300) Intel Core 2 Duo Penryn with 6 MB on-chip L2 cache"
"Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT with 512 MB of GDDR3 SDRAM"

Same model only with upgraded CPU.
 

Uvaman

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no, it's literally not the same model
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro

this can't be news to people on this board of all places
cpu's aren't the same and gpu's aren't the same and just "oc'ed"

they're different, entirely different chipsets and laptops in particular are segregated by their offerings. that means a 2.6 in a macbook has a specific meaning in relation to its production month and year. just because he has a 2.6 from 2008 (and it's not clear he did) does not mean it came from the same batch of 2.5's that were exhibiting the defect.

I do understand what you are saying, however the MODEL was the same graphics card, did not mean was the defective one, true, however that would have come down to serial numbers revisions and such, they could have argued that, would have been quite simple.

As for the rest, I do thing it sounds a bit shady, 4k for small claims, isn't that too high?
The level of apple nonsense is so high, I don't know, it just hard to believe.
 

MoFoQ

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G92 ? The issue was with G84 and G86.

was referring to mobile chips so my bad...should've added a "M" to it.

My desktop G92 is still rockin' (use it as my physix card with my 580 as the primary)

though my old lappy that has a G86M has "issues" with gaming performance.
 

rat

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The whole series of Nvidia mobile graphics chips from that generation were defective Specifically they used first generation lead free solder, that would eventually crack after repeated heating and cooling and render the graphics chip dead.

I remember when this forum was up in arms about the first suggestion of this fault was bullshit JUST BECAUSE IT CAME FROM CHARLIE. And it ended up being an industry wide recall.

Good times.
 

MavericK

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Well....it's abundantly clear who the fanboy(s) are in this thread... :rolleyes:
 
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