School Can Force Teenagers To Wear RFID

[Baker_God]

I see no problem here. The school system is using the RFID tags to track truancy. Schools in Texas get state funding based on student count. If a ton of kids skip, they get less funding. This allows them to track and curb those issues. What the article doesn't talk about is that the Hernendez family was suing the school on grounds that "the school district was a herald of the anti-christ". They believed the RFID tags were a sign of the apocolypse. It was only until the ACLU got involved that this turned legitimate.

 

[typezero303]

So you think people are stupid to compare electronic tracking devices to government tyranny...

...but you think it makes sense to compare electronic tracking devices to a dress code.

Uh...kay.

And no.. I don't equate ID badges with RFID tags to government tyranny.

You've got GPS, WiFi and multiple cell antennas in your phones, MP3 players, tablets, gaming handhelds, cars.

"Blackbox" like devices in your car.

Content providers tracking your online "movement", and physical locations of where you are connecting.

Chipped passes for public transportation.

Applications and devices used to track spouses(or anyone else for that matter).

Cameras in public areas filming everyone and everything.


and people are worried about their children having to bring a badge to school, to log them in to the campus. The disconnect baffles me.

If people choose to be paranoid, then that's their choice... But as technology becomes better, wireless and always "on" connection become more and more prevalent on the devices and for use of the services people want to use, then I will always be surprised when people complain when the same existing technology is being used to better a system that is in need of reform.

 

[bigstusexy]

Seriously what is the big whoop about this?
We didn't have middle schools but when I went to highschool I had to have an ID on at all times and it had a barcode and my student ID number on it. I don't see how this is any different.

 

[Ducman69]

How does RFID tracking decrease the current threats facing schools today?

As I said, its not foolproof just another layer of security. The obvious one is that they can tell where each student is in the building, or if they have left the building, but conversely it can be implemented if they like to deny entrance to a school for someone that doesn't have a RFID tag thus improving safety.

Many bad schools have limited entrance points for the school, and they are covered by a metal detector. It would be easy enough to have it also trigger an alert if a large object passes through the metal detector without an RFID tag (unauthorized personnel).

 

[Stiletto]

And no.. I don't equate ID badges with RFID tags to government tyranny.

You've got GPS, WiFi and multiple cell antennas in your phones, MP3 players, tablets, gaming handhelds, cars.

Pretty much all of those things are banned at most schools from the possession of students. Moot.

"Blackbox" like devices in your car.

Most teenagers don't have them. Moot.

Content providers tracking your online "movement", and physical locations of where you are connecting.

You're talking about something that only indicates where you are when you use a computer, not 24/7 while you're walking around.

Chipped passes for public transportation.

You're not forced to use it.

Applications and devices used to track spouses(or anyone else for that matter).

Apart from being even more of a niche industry than Razer tablets, what does that have to do with children forced to wear trackers in school?

Cameras in public areas filming everyone and everything.

Do you live in Britain? I'm talking about the United States.

If people choose to be paranoid, then that's their choice... But as technology becomes better, wireless and always "on" connection become more and more prevalent on the devices and for use of the services people want to use, then I will always be surprised when people complain when the same existing technology is being used to better a system that is in need of reform.

What about tracking students makes things "better"? Just as with any kind of legislation, it will only affect the law-abiding. It will take a student one second to chuck the badge into a trash can before they go off to play hooky for the day. It's a completely worthless technological initiative.

As to your attitude that because there are some intrusive technologies, people should shut up about any further ones, is extremely insulated itself. If you want to give up your privacy, that's up to you. Others don't.

 

[Stiletto]

Seriously what is the big whoop about this?
We didn't have middle schools but when I went to highschool I had to have an ID on at all times and it had a barcode and my student ID number on it. I don't see how this is any different.

Did the ID tell them where you were at all times?

 

[Ducman69]

Did the ID tell them where you were at all times?

At all times?

How exactly does "at school" and "during class" translate into "at all times".

There is no design to track the kids outside of or after school.

 

[Serpent]

School teaches a lot of useless crap no one remembers anyway.... not to mention the useful stuff that no one remembers anyway.

 

[kbrickley]

The biggest benefit would be the detection of students during a required evacuation ... and the detection of students after normal school hours ... if this were a private school no one would care because there would be no legal discussion on it at all ... I wore an RFID badge at my previous employer and it set off alarms if you entered the building without a badge and it restricted which doors you could access ... it also flagged security if you were working after hours (and I had security stop by my cube to check on me several times during the weekend) ... all of those would be valid uses in a school environment also

Tracking students outside school would be unacceptable but I think RFID can provide useful capabilities inside the school boundaries

 

[Stiletto]

At all times?

How exactly does "at school" and "during class" translate into "at all times".

There is no design to track the kids outside of or after school.

So do they hang up their ID card at school before leaving and go home without it?

And prove that the school has no capability to track outside school. They don't get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[nutzo]

You learn social skills faster in social situations. That is not to say people who are home schooled can't catch up, but they do need to catch up.

You need to do a little research on home schooling before making comments about it.

My kid is home schooled, but takes a couple classes at a local private school.
She has friends at the school, friends in the local home school group, friends in one of the other group classes she takes, friends at church, etc.

She actually has a bigger circle of kids to connect with than if she just went to the school.

 

[Paradoxine]

What? Parents teaching? Preposterous. Children must only be taught in state institutions by unionized political activists who will walk out of work the minute their bargaining rights are touched.

What would be your ideal education system? No it doesn't have to be state-mandated.

Anyway, land of the free - to do what we tell you.

 

[soulman901]

If I was one of the students, I'd take the RFID chip, embed it into a squirrel and let it go in the school.
I don't know what would be funnier, the squirrel loose in the school or the tracking information that the squirrel would produce from moving all over the place.

 

[HardUp4HardWare]

1) There are even greater security concerns at schools now, following the shootings we've had these past years, and while not foolproof its certainly a layer of security.
2) There is a long-time problem especially in ghetto schools of simple attendance, and this is much faster and more reliable than a roll call at the start of every class.
3) And its not about using the bathroom, its about busting kids for sneaking out when they get a chance and buying/selling/smoking weed behind the school somewhere.

RFID tracking just makes sense.

3 really retarded points.

1. Are you saying that an RFID would stop someone from committing a shooting? HOW?
2. those kids don't give a F#%$ if their attendance is recorded and the schools are passing them with straight Fs anyway so who gives a shit?
3. Again, if a kid wants to smoke pot he will just rearrange his schedule or just have someone buzz him out and leave his RFID in his locker.

RFID doesn't make ANY sense except to a short sighted idiot. It will only track the kids who are already compliant with school regulations.

 

[Ducman69]

Yeah...and I addressed the same comment with the same observation. How in the hell is being forced to wear uniquely-identifiable tracking devices in any way comparable to a dress code?

The point is so painfully obvious it is not deserving of a reply, but just so you don't feel too smart:
1) It demonstrates that students can be made to abide by a string of even arbitrary rules that they have no control over, and they do not have the rights and freedoms of a regular adult on their freetime. If the school wants to restrict free speech for example, they can for the minors while under their roof. There is no illusion of freedom in schools.
2) If you can make the students wear a specific shirt, pants, or shoes, you can certainly add an RFID tag as a requirement as an additional mandatory thing the kids have to wear around their neck at school.

Any questions?

 

[soulman901]

The point is so painfully obvious it is not deserving of a reply, but just so you don't feel too smart:
1) It demonstrates that students can be made to abide by a string of even arbitrary rules that they have no control over, and they do not have the rights and freedoms of a regular adult on their freetime. If the school wants to restrict free speech for example, they can for the minors while under their roof. There is no illusion of freedom in schools.
2) If you can make the students wear a specific shirt, pants, or shoes, you can certainly add an RFID tag as a requirement as an additional mandatory thing the kids have to wear around their neck at school.

Any questions?

Yes, do the students have to specifically wear the RFID tag that was assigned to them, or can they trade the RFID tag with another student and wear that? If the policy says they need to have an RFID tag on them at all times then fine, I'll trade with Billy there and really screw up the tracking information for them.

 

[HardUp4HardWare]

You need to do a little research on home schooling before making comments about it.

My kid is home schooled, but takes a couple classes at a local private school.
She has friends at the school, friends in the local home school group, friends in one of the other group classes she takes, friends at church, etc.

She actually has a bigger circle of kids to connect with than if she just went to the school.

Typical anti-homeschool ignorance.

This idea that homeschooled kids are all socially handicapped is complete uninformed bullshit. You hear it from anti-homeschool legislation proponents. If your kid is a medicated psychosocial academic failure he is "OK", but if your kids is doing well in every area he is still a threat to society because he might just think for himself.

How many RFID tags will a trillion dollar coin buy?

 

[Starcrossed]

Uhhhhhhh...

Minors have never had full freedoms of an adult, and the school can absolutely tell the kids what they can wear AT school DURING school.

I had to wear a uniform, pressed white buttoned long sleve shirt, blue slacks, and polished black shoes. If my hair was too long it had to be cut. No jewlery. They even had limitations on how girls were allowed to wear their hair.

Its school for kids, not a place where they need to "express themselves" or worried about being tracked, so little missy needs to get her entitled foot out of her ass, obey the rules, and follow the curriculum like everyone else.

.. people like you will always serve to create that which is destructive to the individuality of the human species!

 

[Ducman69]

3 really retarded points.

1. Are you saying that an RFID would stop someone from committing a shooting? HOW?

Learn to read bro. Which part of "it is not foolproof but certainly adds a layer of security" is confusing to you? Or can you explain which phrase you somehow interpretted as "this will prevent school shootings". To answer the question though, if it immediately alerts someone of an unauthorized person on the facility, it certainly provides some heads up and is better than nothing. Clearly, this is not the sole purpose of having students wear identification.

2. those kids don't give a F#%$ if their attendance is recorded and the schools are passing them with straight Fs anyway so who gives a shit?

Read what you just wrote and think about that for a second.

3. Again, if a kid wants to smoke pot he will just rearrange his schedule or just have someone buzz him out and leave his RFID in his locker.

The school can and should have control over what occurs under their roof. If they prevent the consuming or trafficing of drugs on their property during school time, they have done their part. At my school, we had to wear our yellow ID cards (this was before RFID) around our neck, and it would be very obvious if you weren't wearing your ID walking around.

Only a short-sighted idiot wouldn't accept that an RFID tag is not much more expensive than the regular "dumb" ID tags that most students are already required to wear at larger schools, and that the applications for RFID are numerous from eliminating roll call, to alerting to unauthorized access, to alerting principle of people ditching class, and more.

I believe in maximizing the value for my tax dollars in schools, but this is not that expensive and thus a no-brainer to utilize currently available technology, just as schools should switch from paper books and large lockers to e-readers.

 

[Serpent]

^Uh..... how is the quote you quoted anti homeschooling?

 

[Serpent]

Crap mine was regarding HardUp4HardWare's post.

 

[typezero303]

Pretty much all of those things are banned at most schools from the possession of students. Moot.

Pretty sure kids keep, and use their phones while on school property. Or listen to music from their iPods. I mean come on man.

I used to do network installs, I did Wifi installs for many many high schools in my region, and one of the biggest problems faced by a lot of schools was the number of Wifi devices fighting for bandwidth... Mostly relating to phones or iPods.

In this district, students are not to use their phones while in class. Yeah.. that doesn't happen.

Most teenagers don't have them. Moot.

Some do. So because it doesn't affect the "majority" of people, it is no longer a valid point. By a similar reasoning, the "majority" of people at this particular school are in favor of this new system, therefor, using your reasoning... Because this girl and her family are in the minority, their point is therefor "moot".

You're talking about something that only indicates where you are when you use a computer, not 24/7 while you're walking around.

Not that hard to track your geographical location, and tendencies via cell network connections. As I recall Apple and Google got into some hot water about that one. Many cell operators also got into some issues because of pre-loaded software on the phones tracking users... and the software is still there of many handsets.

You're not forced to use it.

Kids needing to go to school might. Parents needing to go to work, to feed themselves and their children, who don't have the income to afford a car, might be "forced" to use it.. because the alternative isn't feasible. Not everyone can do a 2 hour walk to get to work everyday, because they can't afford to buy a car... but still need to provide for themselves and their family.

Apart from being even more of a niche industry than Razer tablets, what does that have to do with children forced to wear trackers in school?

The illustration I am trying to make is that people are fine to give up so much more personal location information, almost at any given time. But when something, so much smaller, with a much more limited scope is introduced, some people freak out and claim big government trying to take over their lives.

I get the impression, that if the government wanted to take over and restrict their population, they would go about it a very different way then with RFID tags to track if a student is at school or not.

Things like the Patriot Act come to mind though.

Do you live in Britain? I'm talking about the United States.

I'm Canadian.
But cities like New York Chicago, and DC all have city operated cameras around the important areas, or busy sectors of the city.
Not to mention things like traffic cameras, weather cameras, tourist spot cameras.

What about tracking students makes things "better"? Just as with any kind of legislation, it will only affect the law-abiding. It will take a student one second to chuck the badge into a trash can before they go off to play hooky for the day. It's a completely worthless technological initiative.

As to your attitude that because there are some intrusive technologies, people should shut up about any further ones, is extremely insulated itself. If you want to give up your privacy, that's up to you. Others don't.

And I'm not saying people shouldn't speak out when they have a concern. Absolutely they should.

My point, is that I am surprised when people speak out about something like this... when they have been voluntarily giving out so much more information, in so many more ways, via many different groups, so for long... Without a peep.

I think we just see this situation in a different way, which is fine. Different points of views.

 

[xXaNaXx]

i haven't read this entire thread, so i'm not sure if this or something similar has been posted already, but:

PROBLEM SOLVED

 

[Ducman69]

.. people like you will always serve to create that which is destructive to the individuality of the human species!

I'm actually a Libertarian. Oops!

I just believe there is a huge difference between sub-adults having to abide by school rules when at the school, and an adult citizen that SHOULD have an expectation of privacy and freedom to do what he/she wants when he/she wants without justification, so long as that action does not directly and clearly impede on the life/liberty of his peers.

Big difference brah!

 

[ballistic90]

I'm of two minds for this kind of thing. I think passive RFID should be encouraged and required (like a work badge people wear in office buildings, swipe it on the teacher's desk for attendance, signing out books and things like that), but kep it common sense and make it secure. No SSNs for student ids or anything like that.

Active RFID I think should be an opt-in program. It would be good for students that might have medical issues or that might end up missing. I know of a relative with downs syndrome that such a service would be appropriate and wanted.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

Typical anti-homeschool ignorance.

This idea that homeschooled kids are all socially handicapped is complete uninformed bullshit. You hear it from anti-homeschool legislation proponents. If your kid is a medicated psychosocial academic failure he is "OK", but if your kids is doing well in every area he is still a threat to society because he might just think for himself.

How many RFID tags will a trillion dollar coin buy?

No. I'm also definitely not anti-homeschool. Public schooling simply offers more range in social interaction. I'm not saying public school is in any way better for academics (or overall), but you definitely need to make extra effort as a parent who homeschools, like nutzo is doing, to equal the social integration kids get on their own from public schooling.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

I'm actually a Libertarian. Oops!

I just believe there is a huge difference between sub-adults having to abide by school rules when at the school, and an adult citizen that SHOULD have an expectation of privacy and freedom to do what he/she wants when he/she wants without justification, so long as that action does not directly and clearly impede on the life/liberty of his peers.

Big difference brah!

You're a collectivist libertarian with progressive/conservative ideals? Weird. I'd never heard of that.

 

[Stiletto]

The point is so painfully obvious it is not deserving of a reply

but just so you don't feel too smart:

You preface this comment with unadulterated narcissism, and start talking about "smarts"? I'm curious - which do you think your feces smells like: lilacs, strawberries, or mountain rain?

2) If you can make the students wear a specific shirt, pants, or shoes, you can certainly add an RFID tag as a requirement as an additional mandatory thing the kids have to wear around their neck at school.

Any questions?

Sure. If I can force them to wear a specific shirt, pants, or shoes...can I force them to wear none at all? After all, they could be hiding something. We could even have daily cavity searches. Naked, molested kids FTW, and if you disagree, then you're not deserving of a reply.

 

[Stiletto]

I'm actually a Libertarian. Oops!

Well-placed "Oops!". It would have been quite embarrassing for you to claim that while speaking in favor of human beings being forced, by government, to attend an institution where they are forced, by government, to wear tracking devices, and their parents have no say in the matter.

I just believe there is a huge difference between sub-adults...

Sub-adults? Really?

Wait...I get it...you're one of "those" libertarians. Ah kay. Now we have clarity.

 

[Stiletto]

No. I'm also definitely not anti-homeschool. Public schooling simply offers more range in social interaction. I'm not saying public school is in any way better for academics (or overall), but you definitely need to make extra effort as a parent who homeschools, like nutzo is doing, to equal the social integration kids get on their own from public schooling.

More range in social interaction isn't always a beneficial thing, though. Along with the friends, you have bullies and cliques and other high-pressure social conflicts, which can not only degrade life quality for children, but serious affect their development. It's a double-edged sword.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

More range in social interaction isn't always a beneficial thing, though. Along with the friends, you have bullies and cliques and other high-pressure social conflicts, which can not only degrade life quality for children, but serious affect their development. It's a double-edged sword.

I agree with that, though being exposed to the bad can also be beneficial. These situations exist in the business world and many aspects of everyday adult life. Experience can be a tool.

Either way, I'm just pointing out all forms of education have their hurdles. I have no issue with homeschooling.

 

[ballistic90]

I agree with that, though being exposed to the bad can also be beneficial.

That's a fair point, after all you as a person (among other things) is a cumulation of all the events in your life, whether positive or negative. If you feel you became a confident, well developed human being, then you owe it to the bad stuff in your life almost as much as the good things.

 

[Stiletto]

That's a fair point, after all you as a person (among other things) is a cumulation of all the events in your life, whether positive or negative. If you feel you became a confident, well developed human being, then you owe it to the bad stuff in your life almost as much as the good things.

True, but that's hindsight. Given the choice, would you rather your child deal with a relentless bully, or not? There are ways to build character without going through hell, and given the choice, I think we'd all like to avoid as much hell as possible.

Wait...did I just say that while talking on the internet?

 

[LeninGHOLA]

True, but that's hindsight. Given the choice, would you rather your child deal with a relentless bully, or not? There are ways to build character without going through hell, and given the choice, I think we'd all like to avoid as much hell as possible.

Wait...did I just say that while talking on the internet?

Of course not. Sheltering a child is also a double edged sword, though.

 

[r00k]

The only problem is they will not learn social skills.

This is what i used to believe, and was my biggest argument against home schooling my own kids.

The truth, however, is that it mainly depends on the parents and how they go about it. If their goal is to shield junior, then they will certainly accomplish it. But many of the people i know who home-school are part of co-ops that bring a lot of kids together and offer a lot of sports and other social things.

I have seen it both ways, and met some home-schooled kids who probably should have been kept away from their parents as much as possible, and know many home-schooled kids who are socially just fine, as well as academically trounce their peers.

 

[Monkey34]

They're missing out on the crowds, bullying and cliques.

Very true.

I agree with that, though being exposed to the bad can also be beneficial. These situations exist in the business world and many aspects of everyday adult life. Experience can be a tool.

Either way, I'm just pointing out all forms of education have their hurdles. I have no issue with homeschooling.

Ah....I was also going to mention the fact that home-schoolers can and do participate in any programs that are available to public schooled children like band, sports, drama,etc.


On topic......with the prevalence of cell phones, I bet it would be easier, more accurate, and cheaper to track those than buy a RFID system.

You never know, the guv'ment probably does it already anyway.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

This is what i used to believe, and was my biggest argument against home schooling my own kids.

The truth, however, is that it mainly depends on the parents and how they go about it. If their goal is to shield junior, then they will certainly accomplish it. But many of the people i know who home-school are part of co-ops that bring a lot of kids together and offer a lot of sports and other social things.

I have seen it both ways, and met some home-schooled kids who probably should have been kept away from their parents as much as possible, and know many home-schooled kids who are socially just fine, as well as academically trounce their peers.

Yes, I should have worded that statement differently.

 

[ballistic90]

True, but that's hindsight. Given the choice, would you rather your child deal with a relentless bully, or not? There are ways to build character without going through hell, and given the choice, I think we'd all like to avoid as much hell as possible.

Wait...did I just say that while talking on the internet?

Yeah, but that's a little speech I give when someone tells be some religious B.S. like "Everything happens for a reason."

It doesn't happen for a particular reason, but you can sure as hell learn from it.

 

[Stiletto]

My point, is that I am surprised when people speak out about something like this... when they have been voluntarily giving out so much more information, in so many more ways, via many different groups, so for long... Without a peep.

I think we just see this situation in a different way, which is fine. Different points of views.

I agree with your last couple of statements, and I actually do agree that people have been far too complacent about the invasiveness of technology into everyday life. At the same time, though...did they really have much of a choice? How many jobs now require you to have cell phones? How difficult is it to go through everyday life without using a computer, or a credit card?

It's one thing to get swept up in the wave of technological innovation. However, when that tech begins to manifest itself in ways that can be heavily abused, people are going to start getting nervous...and that's a good thing, in my opinion. While there are most certainly technophobes that really know little about what they fear...for the most part, resistance to technological change is an instinctual check that keeps scientific progress from overwhelming our ability to control it.

 

[Stiletto]

Yeah, but that's a little speech I give when someone tells be some religious B.S. like "Everything happens for a reason."

It doesn't happen for a particular reason, but you can sure as hell learn from it.

An attitude I can respect.