scalpers starting to return cards LOL

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Nice to see scalpers can't make it work anymore.

I don't plan on upgrading until 2nd quarter when the next shiney object is asking for attention.
 
Chrisman5000 said:
I feel something needs to be done, scalpers are pure cancer. With a majority of brick and mortar stores closing and everything being online I feel we are headed into a world of a non government regulated middle man controlling prices. Seriously, someone needs to slap eBay, Amazon, Craigslist and any other site where scalpers are given a platform really hard. It's getting really bad...

At this point if there are hints that companies are supporting this to buy hype for their products then I hope they get black listed too, that's actual cancel culture I can get behind. I hope people figure out ways to exploit these scalpers on eBay...there has to be a way to take their livelihood away from them.
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Chrisman5000 All it takes is for people to stop buying things from scalpers and they will all go away over night......People need to suck it up and realize they do not need XYZ product RIGHT THIS SECOND!! MUST HAVE SHINY NEW TOY BEFORE EVERYONE!!!! People need to stop being mindless consumers and buy it when it is in store shelves at a normal price.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Chrisman5000 All it takes is for people to stop buying things from scalpers and they will all go away over night......People need to suck it up and realize they do not need XYZ product RIGHT THIS SECOND!! MUST HAVE SHINY NEW TOY BEFORE EVERYONE!!!! People need to stop being mindless consumers and buy it when it is in store shelves at a normal price.
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Additionally, they need to understand they have no entitlement or right to have the new shiny before everyone else. It's a luxury, not a basic staple. Cry me a river about it, Chrisman5000. Flippers have just as much "right" to buy it as you do.
 
Blakestr said:
I hope all scalpers die or change. That might sound harsh, let's be honest, I don't game like I used to and don't "need" the card so it's not like it's affecting me much. But the type of person who looks at that situation and thinks, how can I unfairly take advantage of this system? I'm not convinced that this type of person improves humanity.
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I have not gotten my hands on my card yet and so I understand the emotion however I do not begrudge the guy who cannot afford the card he wants but has the cash flow to turn over a couple of cards to bring his costs down. I do however share your feelings regarding the bastards that buy up every card in existance in order to profit . Those are the true scalpers.
 
jacuzz1 said:
I do not begrudge the guy who cannot afford the card he wants but has the cash flow to turn over a couple of cards to bring his costs down. I do however share your feelings regarding the bastards that buy up every card in existance in order to profit .
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What is the difference between a dozen scalpers buying "a couple of cards" each or one scalper buying 24 cards? Not a damn thing.
 
polonyc2 said:
I think most retailers allow returns for a 100% refund as long as the item is not opened...these scalpers played a game that they mostly won...even returning it for a 100% refund can't be considered a loss
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Retailers can work around that one too. Create a bundle with a digital item (such as game download code, or one month of premium membership) and assign a fictional value to it.

If the customer returns the item, the fictional value suddenly becomes very real, and of course non-refundable. This kind of bundling is done very extensively by Newegg and others during promotions.
 
ellover009 said:
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-allegedly-sold-175-million-worth-ampere-geforce-rtx-30-gpus-to-miners/
Kinda funny how there are other forces in play, yet the scalpers are taking the whole blame. If that's true that's a questionable move done by nvidia.
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Every move would be questionable, but is time not obviously more of an essence for those clients than other client (in the sense that a month without the new video card for some market almost irrelevant, for people if some has it a full month before you it is more of a big deal ?)

Selling to Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft over PC gamers is a questionable move by AMD/Nvidia, but one that would also be easy to understand.

I feel it is a bit of a strawmen, did anyone suggested that scalpers are the whole blame and force in play ? When it is hard to even buy very old card out there, it seem to be obviously a bigger issue and one that existed with banana/toilet paper not so long ago and Christmas decoration/home gym equipment now and many others sector that we can doubt scalper are the major explaining force.
 
Scalpers are a great punching bag though to blame from a corporate PR perspective. "Oh no guys, we totally produced enough cards, it's just scalpers buying out our entire production volume. Pay no attention to the 150,000 GPUs we sold to miners (nVidia) or how we prioritized the PS5 / Xbone over PC gamers (AMD)."
 
Andrew_Carr said:
Scalpers are a great punching bag though to blame from a corporate PR perspective. "Oh no guys, we totally produced enough cards, it's just scalpers buying out our entire production volume. Pay no attention to the 150,000 GPUs we sold to miners (nVidia) or how we prioritized the PS5 / Xbone over PC gamers (AMD)."
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They almost certainly had a production requirement from Microsoft and Sony that they had to hit contractually. Those two companies have a lot of negotiating leverage back when they signed the agreements years ago to produce the consoles.
 
Well of course they would've had contractual requirements, same as TSMC. It's really just a communications/PR failure.
 
Nvidia sells to miners, causes shortage
Rage-gabriel-matula-300398-unsplash_x1200.jpg

AMD sells to microsoft nd Sony, causes shortage
20201129_213415.jpg


😂😂😂😂😂
 
LukeTbk said:
Or just caught a significant amount of scalper a couple of time that made tax fraud evasion, on facebook it should be really easy.

I would imagine that having to deal with capital gain tax would make it quite less attractive to the small player and having to turn in into an actual business/income tax to the big one.
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I'd love to find a way to screw them over financially...they are parasites and should be treated as such. If there was a way to make them all go bankrupt and homeless overnight I'd be all for it. I seriously wish physical harm on them. Not sure how eBay works these days as I have not used it in years but I would assume one could buy out an auction and "cancel" after seeing the sender's address to publish all over the internet?
 
Chrisman5000 said:
I'd love to find a way to screw them over financially...they are parasites and should be treated as such. If there was a way to make them all go bankrupt and homeless overnight I'd be all for it. I seriously wish physical harm on them. Not sure how eBay works these days as I have not used it in years but I would assume one could buy out an auction and "cancel" after seeing the sender's address to publish all over the internet?
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You don’t get the senders address normally, and doxxing is often considered illegal. Plus, as what they’re doing is generally not illegal, even if doxxing is not illegal, chances are you get sued for harassment and the like. It’ll hurt you more than them.
 
Pro tips.
1. Never buy scalper cards.
2. Never buy used cards you think was used for mining.
Either way you're supporting the shortage.
 
griff30 said:
Pro tips.
1. Never buy scalper cards.
2. Never buy used cards you think was used for mining.
Either way you're supporting the shortage.
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I agree, buy in general people have no principles.

They pursue what they want now, regardless of the long term consequences to others or themselves.

We like to think of ourselves as this rational species. We are not.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I agree, buy in general people have no principles.

They pursue what they want now, regardless of the long term consequences to others or themselves.

We like to think of ourselves as this rational species. We are not.
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Or because at a certain point, even spending $1500 on a video card isn't that much money for some people - I do cars for my other hobby, like many on here, and the Dinan kit I was looking at before COVID was close to 12k installed... compared to that (and the base price of the car, never mind track days/etc)... $1500 to solve a problem right now? Meh? I wouldn't spend it, but I can understand why someone ~would~. Hell, I just paid $100 over transfer for a 3070 so I could finish an ongoing project that has been taking up space on my work bench. [H] seller, don't feel it was scalping... and after shipping, he probably only pocketed $50-60... But it solved a problem.

Not supporting scalpers, but to say it's just short sighted... it's all relative too.

Your last line: The fundamental flaw of economic models is that they're based on the assumptions that individuals and groups will make rational decisions. Humans are not rational.
 
What is your source for that this is happening?

I mean, I now see a few 3000 series in stock on Amazon which is an improvement, I guess, but they are still incredibly overpriced.

1606770870606.png


3070 at double MSRP.
3080 at more than double MSRP, same price as 3090 MSRP.
 
Yeah it's really pretty damn simple, the moment most people refuse to pay over retail for newly released products, regardless of the source, but especially scalpers, is the moment this stops being an issue. Everyone just has to sit out a few releases and be patient. Sure it'll continue on some level those die hard "scalper for life" types remembering the glory days, but most assholes will just move on because they're getting a thrill, from a quick buck getting one over on the next person.

Thing is, there's nothing wrong with being aware of something having more value than what someone is asking, and making a bit off it through knowledge and experience, but this isn't that, it's an aberration of market monopolization through a technical caveat, adding a new layer of "middle-man"-ship on top of the retail segment, which is already just that. Everyone does have the right to buy whatever they have the means to, and then sell it, but if you aren't in the "business" of such, while it maybe isn't objectively unethical, it's undoubtedly douchey as fuck. Retailers, are ultimately just middle-men, but they do provide a "product", in the distribution, customer interfacing, handling service, warranty, and failure issues at the POS, etc.. Scalpers don't provide any service, they simply add a "tax" for controlling the availability. If you enable that buy purchasing from them, you share in the responsibility for screwing over the next guy. Sure you could say you're paying for convenience, but you could just as easily offer to buy someone's card who bought the item for their own use, it if the supply was legitimately strangled, and wouldn't be supporting the middle-man who's only function is to profit by impeding the supply chain.
 
lopoetve said:
Or because at a certain point, even spending $1500 on a video card isn't that much money for some people - I do cars for my other hobby, like many on here, and the Dinan kit I was looking at before COVID was close to 12k installed... compared to that (and the base price of the car, never mind track days/etc)... $1500 to solve a problem right now? Meh? I wouldn't spend it, but I can understand why someone ~would~. Hell, I just paid $100 over transfer for a 3070 so I could finish an ongoing project that has been taking up space on my work bench. [H] seller, don't feel it was scalping... and after shipping, he probably only pocketed $50-60... But it solved a problem.

Not supporting scalpers, but to say it's just short sighted... it's all relative too.

Your last line: The fundamental flaw of economic models is that they're based on the assumptions that individuals and groups will make rational decisions. Humans are not rational.
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You are right. In the grand scheme of things it is not THAT much money compared to other things.

I have this "ripoff" spidey sense though, and I don't care how little money we are talking about, if I feel I am being ripped off, I won't buy.

That, and I have a HUGE problem with the concept of arbitrage, which is what scalping essentially is.

I believe that in order to get a payout, people should actually be adding value of some sort. Now, you could argue that scalping is just a form of standing in line for someone who doesn't have the time because they have to work, or something like that, and in the line example, there is some merit to that example, but when it comes to some tool using a bot script because they can and want to make lots of money for doing nothing? I have a huge problem with that, even when it is not at my expense.

Either you add real value, or you don't deserve a payout.
 
CyJackX said:
Curiously enough, why don't consumers band together to simply use the same bots?
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Some are. Buried in the ampere in stock megathread, are instructions about setting up your own alert bots or discords where they're running.

The problem is it's the red queens race; and all they've accomplished is to gaurantee any and all future hot tech will be insta-soldout out even if it doesn't get attention from scalpers.

https://hardforum.com/threads/official-nvidia-ampere-in-stock-thread.2001399/
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
What is your source for that this is happening?

I mean, I now see a few 3000 series in stock on Amazon which is an improvement, I guess, but they are still incredibly overpriced.

View attachment 304418

3070 at double MSRP.
3080 at more than double MSRP, same price as 3090 MSRP.
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It's that bomb HDMI cable you get with it that makes it worth it... :p :rolleyes:
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
What is your source for that this is happening?

I mean, I now see a few 3000 series in stock on Amazon which is an improvement, I guess, but they are still incredibly overpriced.

View attachment 304418

3070 at double MSRP.
3080 at more than double MSRP, same price as 3090 MSRP.
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Never Amazon. 3090 on Zotac or Newegg tend to last a few minutes. 3080s about 30 seconds to a minute. Until last week, that is. 3070 still go instantly.
3090s we’re all over FS/FT here for about 2-3 weeks. I just got a 3070 FTW for 715 shipped from this forum, which with tax and shipping- isn’t bad. He’s had it listed for over a week.
 
jdempsey said:
Yeah it's really pretty damn simple, the moment most people refuse to pay over retail for newly released products, regardless of the source, but especially scalpers, is the moment this stops being an issue. Everyone just has to sit out a few releases and be patient. Sure it'll continue on some level those die hard "scalper for life" types remembering the glory days, but most assholes will just move on because they're getting a thrill, from a quick buck getting one over on the next person.
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That do sound far from simple, how many people would accept to pay for a AIB card instead of a cheaper founder edition even if they find it bring nothing to the table or to a store that charge a bit more than MSRP right now ? Almost everyone.

What would change for most people is how much over MSRP they are ready to pay and to who.
 
lopoetve said:
Never Amazon. 3090 on Zotac or Newegg tend to last a few minutes. 3080s about 30 seconds to a minute. Until last week, that is. 3070 still go instantly.
3090s we’re all over FS/FT here for about 2-3 weeks. I just got a 3070 FTW for 715 shipped from this forum, which with tax and shipping- isn’t bad. He’s had it listed for over a week.
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MSRP for a 3070 is $499. You paid $200 too much.

Never pay above MSRP for anything no matter how much you want it.
 
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So, per real microeconomics, economic surplus exists, it's just a matter of who it goes to; the manufacturer, the consumer, or a scalper. (e.g. if someone willing to pay 700 for a card gets it for 500, their economic surplus is 200)
If manufacturers released the cards as a mass simultaneous auction, but with all supply more immediately available (as opposed to scalpers who withhold supply in order to maximize profit from each individual auction) would this be better?

Hypothetically, the exact demand curve could be known if everybody submitted their maximum price and that list acted as its own queue. It would maximize profits for manufacturers, ensure orderly queueing, and negate scalpers. All at the expense of consumer surplus, of course.
 
It's a bad situation. There's no incentive for the manufacturers or retailers to care WHO gets the products. This is the hardest pill to swallow I think, we simply do not matter to them.

Alternatively, there are ways to mitigate this, although it also hurts consumers. Retailers could not allow returns (exchanges only) for the first siz months of a new products launch. Manufacturers (nvidia or third party) could deny warranty coverage without original receipt and payment method (require a $1 payment from same payment method to verify.) This is the only way I can see making scalping way too high a risk to entertain, but it also makes it more risky for consumers as well. I can't imagine this would ever happen.
 
I’m all for etailers learning the hard way they have to build some intelligence and immutable rule sets into their sales pipelines.
Can’t wait to see a return path from a bad scalper bridging the entirety of late 2020 gpu and console launches that has a history going back a few years.
Start aggregating sales/return data with other verticals like shoes, I’m curious how many of these scalpers were successful/unsuccessful in those other verticals if found.
 
CyJackX said:
Hypothetically, the exact demand curve could be known if everybody submitted their maximum price and that list acted as its own queue. It would maximize profits for manufacturers, ensure orderly queueing, and negate scalpers. All at the expense of consumer surplus, of course.
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It would be a curious experiment, maybe many people would not when asked in that format up the price over MSRP that much, opening the door to scalper and after the day the auction is over and that there is zero card anymore to be found, now they will be ready to up the price.

Maybe it would require an active updated what price you need to put to get one that tell you if your maximum price was not enough.
 
Jonnycat99 said:
What is the difference between a dozen scalpers buying "a couple of cards" each or one scalper buying 24 cards? Not a damn thing.
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None except one is palitable to me because I can see myself buying a card or two and reselling in a hot market and the other is not because it would deny me that opportunity :)
 
lopoetve said:
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P5-3767-KR

$609 MSRP, plus shipping and tax and second shipping.

Edit: wrong card.
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P5-3755-KR

560 plus tax and shipping, plus second shipping. I’ll pay $50-60 for the effort of getting one which is what I figured he pocketed.
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I'm talking about Nvidia's stated MSRP.

The board parters are scalping as well at this point, taking advantage of the shortage to raise prices.

It's Nvidias stated MSRP or nothing at all.

If Nvidia says that a new GPU is launching at $699, I'm not paying a cent over $699
 
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