Scalpers Have Sold 50,000 Nvidia RTX 3000 GPUs

sfsuphysics

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Isn't it already the case ?:
NVidia shield for example
LIMITATIONS OF WARRANTY This warranty applies only to the original purchases of the Warranted Products from an NVIDIA-authorized third party or www.nvidia.com; this warranty will not extend to any person that acquires a Warranted Product on a used basis.

EVGA:
EVGA Corporation ("EVGA") warrants that the Product (defined below) delivered hereunder to the original purchaser ("Original Purchaser") from EVGA.com or an EVGA Authorized Reseller (each an "Authorized Reseller")

Zotac:
  • Products must be purchased as new from an authorized ZOTAC reseller. Warranty only applies to the original purchaser of the product and cannot be transferred. Products purchased as secondhand or used, or from auction sites, do not carry any warranty.
From my experience when filling for ZOTAC, prove of purchase at my name and where was asked.
Is it though? Do they actually verify that you're the one who bought it, or is it a matter of who signs up for the warranty first, or just showing "here's my receipt". I've always saw what was said as some sort of "no transferring of warranty" speak. While I have by in far not bought that many video cards in my life, when I have registering the product via a serial number and typing in my information has been the extent of verification.
 

sfsuphysics

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50K cards equates to only a couple of small shipments to a modest sized retailer...that number is jack squat.
Do we know how many have been produced in general? That said, 50k, split to a modest sized retailer lets say Microcenter, translates to 2000 cards per stores if split equally amongst all 25 locations, or over a couple shipments, 1000 cards per shipment. Not sure they got anywhere close to that amount otherwise waiting in line would be a viable thing.

Either way, 50k was just through Ebay and StockX and only about 2 months. Doesn't take into account all of them sold on various forums, websites (craigslist, facebook marketplace, etc), or through Amazon, or third party sellers on places like Newegg where if you're not paying attention you might think it's Newegg selling at this price. I would honestly predict the number is considerably higher.
 
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'THE' problem isn't one thing or another,but a group of things all having a domino effect on each other on a scale none of us can truly grasp. We are in a crazed mix of inflation,stagflation and deflation of many different things,in a myriad of places all at once,as all Nations are(and have since 2009) printing $$(which erodes their buying power/is a hidden tax),and all in a kamikaze race to the bottom of Depression 3.0 that is now far worse then the 29-49 one.

As millions, upon tens of millions,+++, all have that inevitable eureka/gutshot moment ,where they realize that the entire planet wearing face diapers,and being on literal house arrest over a played up flu,and that most future entertainment will mostly only be found indoors,near everyone will become a 'scalper' to one degree or another. Prices on all things,but especially luxury goods are going to continue to moonshot,and the law of unintended consequence's will only snowball more.

Get used to it. "A days wages for a loaf of bread" ,the crazy prices on computer parts is not going away as I said last July on here. A year from now these prices will seem like good deals compared to what's coming,act accordingly. I have 6 evga que's on 3080s and 5 3090s,when they come up I will pass those here at cost,as I know this is all going to get far worse ,and I am not interested in increasing the misery.
 

Tactlesss

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Microcenter gets stock of the good stuff every now and then. they dont sell these high demand things online so it's harder for bots to do anything about it .

if best buy cared about their customers, they'd do the same, only sell these high demand items physically in store

If they have money then they're a customer
Regardless of whether they passed an arbitrary litmus test to get access to the product. They should just increase the MSRP across the board because at this point it will be cheaper to be ripped off for good broadband and use a cloud service for my computing needs.
 

Ur_Mom

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The problem is definitely the idiots that are willing to pay the scalpers. That's the whole reason this happens. If there was no market for it, this would not exist.

From RTX to Tickle Me Elmo to knock off Gucci. The reason that market exists is because of people willing to pay inflated prices. Buy up the stock to lower the supply while demand is high and sell it back to them. If people didn't buy from scalpers, the supply would remain low until they had so much stock but no capital to buy more. The retail supply would build back up and people would buy at MSRP. Later, the market would be flooded with excess scalper stock at lower prices. But, people want it and they want it NOW and willing to pay a price premium.

Of course, then (unrelated to GPU's) you have Ticketmaster owning actual scalper sites and giving them first dibs on tickets to sell later.
 

Joust

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Hummm. Well. I'm not really feeling an upgrade for a while. I've been so busy at work - I haven't had time to play anything. I don't believe my machine has been on for other-than-work purposes in several months.

There are millions of decent GPU's available, but if you want the Patek Philippe of GPU's, you better bring your wallet.

Let some time flow, and things will be better - or at least, cheaper. Or don't.
 

LukeTbk

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Is it though? Do they actually verify that you're the one who bought it, or is it a matter of who signs up for the warranty first, or just showing "here's my receipt". I've always saw what was said as some sort of "no transferring of warranty" speak. While I have by in far not bought that many video cards in my life, when I have registering the product via a serial number and typing in my information has been the extent of verification.
Could be just words virtually impossible to enforce, Zotac never responded, I imagine they need to go with the info when registering the product (imagine you would have bought it cash at a bestbuy, versus buying it cash from someone that bought it cash at a bestbuy, how would it work on their side)
 

KazeoHin

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This is not supply and the demand, this is hijacking the supply, then ransoming it out. The shortage is amplified by the scalpers themselves. I'd be on board with criminalizing it, and not because I couldn't get a PS5 or whatever, as I didn't even want to.

The scalpers couldn't hold them ransom if people weren't willing to pay.
 

LukeTbk

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Do we know how many have been produced in general? That said, 50k, split to a modest sized retailer lets say Microcenter, translates to 2000 cards per stores if split equally amongst all 25 locations, or over a couple shipments, 1000 cards per shipment. Not sure they got anywhere close to that amount otherwise waiting in line would be a viable thing.

There is 977 best buy in the USA, over 122 days 50K cards would be less than half a card (every model put together) a day by BestBuy store.
In walmart it would be less than half a card a week by store I think.

For Microcenter 2000 cards by store do look significance (16 a days by store), but there is so few locations
 

LukeTbk

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This is not supply and the demand, this is hijacking the supply, then ransoming it out. The shortage is amplified by the scalpers themselves. I'd be on board with criminalizing it, and not because I couldn't get a PS5 or whatever, as I didn't even want to.
Only if they keep significant stock out of the market and take a very long time to sell them.
 

Jonnycat99

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Microcenter gets stock but it's claimed before the store opens by people who don't need to be at work and can wait in line for several hours.

The problem is that some of those people have made a job out of waiting in line for several hours before the store opens. $200-$300 a day (or more) for four hours of work is a pretty good "be your own boss" gig.
 

sfsuphysics

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There is 977 best buy in the USA, over 122 days 50K cards would be less than half a card (every model put together) a day by BestBuy store.
In walmart it would be less than half a card a week by store I think.

For Microcenter 2000 cards by store do look significance (16 a days by store), but there is so few locations
The original quote though said "modest sized" retailer, not sure I'd classify Best Buy as "modest" in size.

That said, this analysis that was done was over a much shorter period, not 122 days, closer to 60 days plus we know by Best Buy they release cards every 2 weeks or so (approximately) so that further cuts that "shippments" down to 4 (roughly 2 months x 2 shipments per month). And then not every Best Buy store gets cards, their system is to allocate a certain number to a region, so that 977 number probably needs to be drastically cut, how much I couldn't say as I don't know how big a "region" is, is it a state? is it a ... region .. like the whole Pacific Northwest? But I wouldn't be surprised at all if this didn't represent a significant fraction of cards that were distributed to a particular store.
 

LukeTbk

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The original quote though said "modest sized" retailer, not sure I'd classify Best Buy as "modest" in size.
I must admit I to not understand fully the point you were trying to make, I thought you were trying to get a feel to see if 50K was a relevant amount that could have changed things if it didn't got on ebay. On that front we can make the experiment with all resellers (including newegg/amazon volume if we would know it), I am not sure trying to figure them in shipment versus daily average do here (I imagine it make sense for those who try to buy them in brick and mortar location and have felt the size of a drop when they happen).

BestBuy is a large scale for that type, I would fully agree, it is to give how little it would have changed if BestBuy achieved to sell them with finding a way to stop their buyer to resell them.

Has for the time line I went with is graph:
03kKPmL6SxCJtrPvvsQn0Ba-4.fit_lim.size_768x.png

And assumed he tracked from 2020-09-22 to 2021-01-22
 

M76

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Only if they keep significant stock out of the market and take a very long time to sell them.
I suspect they have a stagnant stock because they'd rather sit on it than sell at cost.
 

M76

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The scalpers couldn't hold them ransom if people weren't willing to pay.
That's no excuse. They do not provide a service, so their activity is a net negative to society = they are criminals.
But alright, let's punish those as well who buy from scalpers, I'm down with that too. Stupidity and lack of self control should have consequences.
 

LukeTbk

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I suspect they have a stagnant stock because they'd rather sit on it than sell at cost.
Yes I imagine they would rather open the boxes and mine with them instead of selling at cost, but considering how much over cost they are selling right now, why would they sit on it ?
 

Flogger23m

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The scalpers couldn't hold them ransom if people weren't willing to pay.

Seems like at this point, the mining craze is what is largely driving the excessive purchasing of GPUs. I'd think the gamers willing to pay double MSRP would have dried up by now. I got an RTX 3070 at the proper MSRP, but even if I wanted to, I wouldn't be able to afford a $800-1000+ GPU. I think most gamers are in the same situation.

For the consoles, demand is up in general with slower than usual production. Same with GPUs. The combination of all these factors is unprecedented. And I'm sure a lot of people who wanted to upgrade their GPU are probably trying to get a PS5 because while it is new, it is relatively comparable to a moderate gaming PC, and the price is a lot lower. Which makes demand even higher.

That's no excuse. They do not provide a service, so their activity is a net negative to society = they are criminals.
But alright, let's punish those as well who buy from scalpers, I'm down with that too. Stupidity and lack of self control should have consequences.

Making it illegal for people to spend their own money how they want should be illegal. And it is absolutely immoral.

I'm okay with putting some things in place to prevent people from using bots to auto buy dozens of items. Anything else (someone buying 2-3 consoles, selling 1-2 for profit) is perfectly fine. If some rich guy wants to over spend that is fine and their right. And if it means some low/middle class guy can get a free console out of it with the profits then good for them.

Auto buying 50-100 stock in 1 second is another animal entirely.
 

M76

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Making it illegal for people to spend their own money how they want should be illegal. And it is absolutely immoral.
It is already illegal to buy known stolen goods, or black market items, or some services. Why should this be any different?
There is absolutely a need to regulate what services people can spend their money on. And there are restrictions already in place as they should be.
 

LukeTbk

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That's no excuse. They do not provide a service, so their activity is a net negative to society = they are criminals.
But alright, let's punish those as well who buy from scalpers, I'm down with that too. Stupidity and lack of self control should have consequences.
It depend on how large of definition of services we are talking about.

Imagine you a rich person and there is a rare item people make line to get and you send your domestic to wait in line for you and give it an extra that day for standing up outside and now you have the item of a much higher price than otherwise (the daily wage + extra), but you got it faster and it today world at all than otherwise.

In that case it seem clear the domestic made a service for you and you paid for it.

Scalper provide a service for their rich buyers, that would have probably not have the item without them, it direct hardware toward people that want it the most (need for something else than just play for it, like mining) or have the most money and love gaming more.

If the amount of people that want the card would be the same that the supply and they would do not redistribution and just rise the price, than yes that would be a clearer case of no "service"
 

Joust

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It is already illegal to buy known stolen goods, or black market items, or some services. Why should this be any different?
There is absolutely a need to regulate what services people can spend their money on. And there are restrictions already in place as they should be.

Your answer to being angry about people buying too many graphics cards is to make spending on GPU's illegal.

You do know this isn't insulin, right?
 

Flogger23m

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It is already illegal to buy known stolen goods, or black market items, or some services. Why should this be any different?

Because we aren't talking about stolen goods or IEDs being sold to terrorists? We're talking about someone spending their own personal money. Unless you want to live in a dystopian future where you're told when and how much you can spend your money I'm not sure what the upside is.

Bots auto buying mass quantities is an entirely different topic than someone buying 2-3 units and keeping one.
 

Krenum

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Unless you want to live in a dystopian future where you're told when and how much you can spend your money I'm not sure what the upside is.
That's already in the works.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/26/spending-stimulus-checks/

The government is monitoring how people spend their money that they give them. You can bet there are some round table discussions about how they are going to tell us how and when to spend our money in the future, especially if they can track it so easily. On top of that analytics is a huge business cash cow.
 

TheBuzzer

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There are people that earns 19k a month just in their trust funds and even higher. They are most likely the people buying stuff without caring for the price.

We are all just haters because we can't afford them.
 

LukeTbk

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The government is monitoring how people spend their money that they give them. You can bet there are some round table discussions about how they are going to tell us how and when to spend our money in the future, especially if they can track it so easily. On top of that analytics is a huge business cash cow.
It is hard to imagine they would not try to track how efficient stimulus check are by some metrics (and over time to who it is best to give it to stimulate the economy, if it does virtually no change on the spending on a segment of the population they can skip it and so on).

I am sure they already have PR going suggesting/influencing people on how to spend it, with some buy local or buy USA campaign.
 

Krenum

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We are all just haters because we can't afford them.
I can afford one (I only want one) at MSRP. I guess I'm a hater for not wanting to spend 2-3 times what the recommended manufacturers price is?
 

thecold

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Isn't it already the case ?:
NVidia shield for example
LIMITATIONS OF WARRANTY This warranty applies only to the original purchases of the Warranted Products from an NVIDIA-authorized third party or www.nvidia.com; this warranty will not extend to any person that acquires a Warranted Product on a used basis.

EVGA:
EVGA Corporation ("EVGA") warrants that the Product (defined below) delivered hereunder to the original purchaser ("Original Purchaser") from EVGA.com or an EVGA Authorized Reseller (each an "Authorized Reseller")

Zotac:
  • Products must be purchased as new from an authorized ZOTAC reseller. Warranty only applies to the original purchaser of the product and cannot be transferred. Products purchased as secondhand or used, or from auction sites, do not carry any warranty.
From my experience when filling for ZOTAC, prove of purchase at my name and where was asked.


EVGA has a transferrable warranty (on select models), this is a based off when the product left evga. The rtx 3080 ftw3 ultra that I sold to a friend at cost had 2 years 11 months left. Based on shipping knowledge, that's about as much as you can get (since shipping from China/Taiwan takes forever).

https://www.evga.com/warranty/graphics-cards/
 

KazeoHin

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That's no excuse. They do not provide a service, so their activity is a net negative to society = they are criminals.
But alright, let's punish those as well who buy from scalpers, I'm down with that too. Stupidity and lack of self control should have consequences.
Scalpers are an effect, not a cause.

Essentially, when demand exceeds supply, The price WILL ALWAYS raise to balance. Whether its the manufacturer raising the price, or others buying it up and reselling at their own price: The balance will ALWAYS be restored. Regulation on this will just make it more complicated, but the end result will ALWAYS be maintaining the balance of Supply and demand.
 

t1337duder

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Scalpers exist because too many people are willing to pay whatever the price. It's a luxury item so it's not really a big deal in the end. I am just putting blame where it belongs. The people willing to pay over retail.
If anything, scalpers exist because people like you aren't willing to accept that it's a systemic issue rather than a personal one. We can just sit here forever and pretend like regular people are the ones to blame rather than the people who actually have the ability to control the issue. Let's be real here - the people willing to pay scalpers aren't the suckers in the topic. They got what the want at the price they were willing to pay. The suckers are the people who want it to go away but are opposed to regulating it. It's like being a door-mat and then advocating for the feet walking on you. Frankly - it's weird.
Scalpers are an effect, not a cause.

Essentially, when demand exceeds supply, The price WILL ALWAYS raise to balance. Whether its the manufacturer raising the price, or others buying it up and reselling at their own price: The balance will ALWAYS be restored. Regulation on this will just make it more complicated, but the end result will ALWAYS be maintaining the balance of Supply and demand.
Doing anything about any issue "makes things more complicated". Saying it's complicated in of itself is not an argument against why it shouldn't be done.

Hell - why even have a government? "It just makes things more complicated"

Can anyone put forth an argument about why it's too complicated to do ANYTHING to deter scalpers? Why is it too complicated to put laws around it, make an example of the worst offenders to deter the majority? Why would supply and demand even factor into that? It doesn't even feel like there's honest discussion on this topic, because people are convinced that doing anything to deter scalpers and protect consumers means that everything will be over-regulated in a way that would impact them. It's light-switch thinking. Regulations aren't automatically good or bad. It's about cause and effect. People here act so principled against regulation, but what good are your principles if it ultimately just leads to scalpers taking advantage of a system while you blame those who buy from them? It's no wonder why people who advocate for these viewpoints are losing culturally and politically, badly. I've shared these views in the past, but eventually I had to wake up and smell the roses.
 
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Thatguybil

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Since November 100 Terahash per second has been added to the etherium network. To put it another way in less than three months the amount of hashes has increased by 50%.


372,938,145,800,138 now​

275,000,000,000000 nov 1st
Rex 3080 = 100,000,000

That means that roughly 1 million equivalents RTX 3080 cards have been added to the ETH network.
Now not all of the increase is from new 3080, some is retired cards returning to the network. However even if half of the new crunching power is old cards coming back online that means that 500,000 cards are new mining cards.

Normal people making a buck flipping cards is not the reason why cards are hard to find...
 

KazeoHin

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Eh, both the supply and the demand are there. The scalpers are driving up the prices.

Its monkey see, monkey do.

If there wasn't a demand, then nobody would pay the scalpers. Scalpers are driving up prices, yes, but they aren't able to choose any price they want. They can't just sell each for $100,000,000.

Why?

Well, because the demand for them is not high enough to justify that price. They instead sell for the highest price they can. and that price is determined by the market demand.

I don't like it, but its economics 101.
 

t1337duder

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Most of the people are not smart enough to understand this, we could have control over the market prices but they just don't care, they just want their new toys.
Maybe they're not the ones lacking in smarts? You can't have control over the market prices. You're not a collective. You're an individual. You literally have control over nothing. You and all your friends could share these principles and you will never make a meaningful difference in regards to the system. Who are you tell people how to spend their money anyways, or decide what's "smart" on their behalf?
 

cybereality

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I really fear this won't end. By the time we can get stock on the 3000 series, probably 4000 will be coming out and the same thing will happen. Then you have to decide if you want to buy a "last gen" card at MSRP, or pay the scalper tax.

It sucks, and every day that we wait, new games come out that push the hardware (like The Medium) and effectively your current video card is depreciating in performance.
 

M76

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Because we aren't talking about stolen goods or IEDs being sold to terrorists? We're talking about someone spending their own personal money. Unless you want to live in a dystopian future where you're told when and how much you can spend your money I'm not sure what the upside is.

Bots auto buying mass quantities is an entirely different topic than someone buying 2-3 units and keeping one.
No, no no, just no. We are not talking about people spending their personal money on goods. They are deliberately buying goods they don't want to prevent those who actually want / need it from getting it. That in my opinion is criminal.

Imagine somone cutting in front of you in the line at the store, then taking stuff out of your shopping cart, and after the cashiers he says, oh you can buy it back for 2x the price. Just because they are doing it virtually on the internet doesn't make the act any less heinous.
 

M76

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Your answer to being angry about people buying too many graphics cards is to make spending on GPU's illegal.

You do know this isn't insulin, right?
Funny how everyone suddenly acts as if this just normal people buying goods. This is profiteering. You can buy GPUs, what should be illegal is buying them for the sole purpose of immediately reselling at a markup. Unless you are a licensed retailer or shop. And I'm not talking about the petty opportunist who buys 2 when they only need one, despite being in the same boat until then. I'm talking about those buying them in more than household quantities.

And what if it is insulin? profiteering is profiteering. There are scientific applications where a gpu can provide life saving services as well, even if indirectly. And why single out GPUs? This should apply to everything.
 

Flogger23m

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No, no no, just no. We are not talking about people spending their personal money on goods.

Like I said, mass buyers are different than people buying a handful of items.

They are deliberately buying goods they don't want to prevent those who actually want / need it from getting it. That in my opinion is criminal.

What that is just an opinion. I don't think it is illegal in any country.

Imagine somone cutting in front of you in the line at the store, then taking stuff out of your shopping cart, and after the cashiers he says, oh you can buy it back for 2x the price. Just because they are doing it virtually on the internet doesn't make the act any less heinous.

Since you didn't buy it you don't own it yet so it isn't stealing. But I'm sure it is against store policy to take from someone else's cart. Buying online is different because there is no line, unless there is a queue system. Stores can implement it if they so desire. Best Buy seems to be doing just that, and from the sounds of things it is working out decently well. Seems like actual people have an easier time getting the card instead of bots. Which is the real solution - stores need to implement a better system like what Best Buy is doing. I'd think the ones that do will have satisfied customers that may become repeat customers in the future so it is likely in their best interest to do so.

I am glad I bought my GPU from Amazon. Took a lot of effort but I had quick checkout. I think using Amazon gift cards helped me. No credit card/entering of payment method allowed for a quick checkout.
 

M76

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Like I said, mass buyers are different than people buying a handful of items.
No you didn't say. You said we should not control what people spend their money on. I said we already do, it just needs to be extended to profiteering off in-demand products.
What that is just an opinion. I don't think it is illegal in any country.
Of course it is not illegal, BUT I'M SAYING IT SHOULD BE, you are too often being deliberately obtuse these days.

Since you didn't buy it you don't own it yet so it isn't stealing. But I'm sure it is against store policy to take from someone else's cart. Buying online is different because there is no line, unless there is a queue system. Stores can implement it if they so desire. Best Buy seems to be doing just that, and from the sounds of things it is working out decently well. Seems like actual people have an easier time getting the card instead of bots. Which is the real solution - stores need to implement a better system like what Best Buy is doing. I'd think the ones that do will have satisfied customers that may become repeat customers in the future so it is likely in their best interest to do so.

I am glad I bought my GPU from Amazon. Took a lot of effort but I had quick checkout. I think using Amazon gift cards helped me. No credit card/entering of payment method allowed for a quick checkout.
So if there is a loophole you think exploiting it is not immoral?
 
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