Randy6309
Weaksauce
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I grieve for the scalpers and the unfortunate situation they find themselves in!
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Scalpers are struggling to sell the RTX 4080 above MSRP, but retailers won't let them return the cards
- Thread starter 1_rick
- Start date
Yea, Newegg just isn't the same anymore. Been like that for a long time. I use to only buy through them for ages. Now just a shadow of their former self, laced with shady dealings. Sad to see less choice options now...I don't like spending so much at Amazon, considering how huge they are, but not much choice unfortunately =*(.
I choose to pay more and buy from my rep at CDW, at least then if I have any issues at all it gets dealt with.
Imagine what they could do if they would have !
Yes that GTX 280 was around $900 2022 US dollars
L2 Cache: 256 KB
Transistors: 1,400 million
Pixel Rate: 19.26 GPixel/s
Texture Rate: 48.16 GTexel/s
FP32 (float) performance: 622.1 GFLOPS
FP64 (double) performance: 77.76 GFLOPS (1:8)
vram: 1 gig
A 4090 cost almost 80% more if you can find one at MSRP but:
L2 Cache: 72 MB
Transistors: 76,300 million
Pixel Rate: 443.5 GPixel/s
Texture Rate: 1,290 GTexel/s
FP32 (float) performance: 82.58 TFLOPS
FP64 (double) performance: 1,290 GFLOPS (1:8)
vram: 24gig
Ratio:
L2 Cache: 288
Transistors: 54.5
Pixel Rate: 23
Texture Rate: 26
FP32 (float) performance: 132
FP64 (double) performance: 16
vram: 24
Yes a 13900K is cheaper than a Q6600 was, but over that time CPU went from 582 millions transistor to around 13,140 for AMD to deskptop line to 14,200 millions or so for raptor lake, 64K of L1 cache to 80K of L1 cache 8MB of L2 cache to a 36mb L3 cache (64 on a 7950x).
One industry multiplied by 55 the other by 24 what we buy.
In the sector CPU increase has been as impressive, say the EPYC 96 cores versus the Xeon of 2008 it would not surprise me if the price increase has been higher, GPU still had more low hanging fruit.
If it normal the price of the high GPU shifted up versus the high end Desktop CPU (that became much cheaper affair that the "EE" edition of today)
Yup, thankfully I have a decent local computer shop (RIP Fry's, Bay area Microcenter) in https://www.centralcomputer.com/ that can do local pickup/RMA/return. Kind of on topic, I had to RMA a bad videocard (4090) within return period and was able to get replacement same day by going to store (they actually kept some 4090s for RMA so really surprised at that as well). Nice thing is can see them test in person as test bench right behind counter for my store (old school).
Usual_suspect
Limp Gawd
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- Apr 15, 2011
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- 317
Yeah, Best Buy is my only B&M option. Fry’s closed down and had been irrelevant even before they closed. No MC near me, living in Las Vegas sucks for B&M options.
Best Buy has stepped it up though, so all is not lost—yet.
LOCO LAPTOP
[H]F Junkie
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South FL is the same Best Buy is the only store for PC parts, we had Tigerdirect, which I loved but that closed many years ago. MC is 10 hours away in GA lol
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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That's a pretty shitty way of doing business by letting the low value market be dealt with used or even previous generation products. I say this and this is how the auto market is handling things.
Those are things that shareholders tell each other to justify the stock. I'm not a shareholder but a gamer looking for a cheap GPU. To be honest, none of that will bare fruition due to how many corporations end up going in house. Google and Amazon for example will almost certainly make their own AI systems, if they haven't already. I see this as a waste of resources that could be put into making better efficient GPU's. Their RTX 4090's pull so much power that it melts the connector.
I don't see AMD having any trouble in the future. Nvidia though is trying their best to spread into other markets because it's just a matter of time before AMD and Intel have APU's that make Nvidia discrete GPU's pointless. Nvidia wishes they had a x86 license.
I'm not worried about ARM, and neither should AMD and Intel. ARM is just the latest MIPS, PowerPC, and insert previous dead CPU architecture here. The situation is always the same. New CPU architecture battles x86 for dominance because x86 old and bad. AMD or Intel reinvents x86, making other said architecture slow and power hungry in comparison. Apple dumps them for x86, and the world moves on with x86 once again. The secret is nobody wants to rewrite code just because new CPU architecture. Nobody wants to wait for applications to be ported to new CPU architecture, if ever. Nobody wants to deal with slow and usually buggy emulation.
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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Point to me what AMD and Nvidia considers mid range and I'll tell you why nobody is buying them.
When I say mid range I'm talking about pricing and a RTX 3080 isn't mid range. You can barely consider the RTX 3060 mid range, but prices are dropping and you do see them getting more popular on Steam. The only reason I can see why the RTX 3070 is gaining popularity is because you can pick one up for less than $400 on Ebay used. Which is a great deal when you consider that a RTX 3060 Ti is about $500 new. Also the GTX 1070's are now $100 on Ebay used, so they're no longer mid range anymore.
I think we all assume it's greed.
Maybe, if Nvidia was the only GPU manufacturer in the market. I'm betting that Nvidia isn't going to sell shit for a long time and their greed will force them to lower prices to a fraction of the MSRP they're asking for.
AMD has for the past decade been undercutting Nvidia by a good $200-$300, and it doesn't work. That's because $1,000 is still a lot of money. Just because it isn't $1,300 isn't going to deter people from buying Nvidia. If you're spending more than $800 on a GPU, there's a good chance you don't care how much it costs. If AMD were to charge $800 for the RX 7900 XT, I could see big problems for Nvidia, and big sales for AMD. They're not going to do that, and it'll be sometime of summer 2023 when we'll see more mid range products from AMD and Nvidia. Like most people I don't care for the 4090's or the 7900's because they're terrible in terms of price to performance. Let me know when AMD has a new $250 GPU that can actually be an upgrade from a RX 580, because right now that's AMD's most represented GPU on Steam.
What possible consideration of mid range do you have not millions of people buying them ?
If mid range are 3060-3070 there are nearly twice has much of those than 1060 6gb and 3gb, without going on the mobile one
https://www.newegg.com/msi-rx-6650-...=6650xt-_-14-137-737-_-Product&quicklink=true
6650xt is currently $250 on newegg if you consider the $20 rebate card, that a bit more than twice an RX 580
RX 580 costed a fortune for quite a large part of when they were popular:
https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B06Y66K3XD?context=search
And their msrp was $300 2022 USD.
More ARM server CPU’s were sold in 2022 than AMD EPYC’s were sold. In Enterprise and Datacenter ARM is taking serious market share. It is a major concern for Intel and AMD for datacenter especially, web hosting, payment processing, AI, and Data delivery. ARM has a lower cost per transaction which is why PayPal, Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, and many many others are using ARM now to power their websites and payment portals. Enterprise and Datacenter have been moving over for years and it’s picking up speed.
Cost here isn’t a concern like you think it is, they are spending a few hundred thousand to save millions.
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DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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As of right now, Steam's hardware survey says the GTX 1060 makes up 5.77% of their users. The 3060 is 3.41% and the 3070 is 2.44%. While those two are greater than the GTX 1060, they're not greater than the new king of the hill, the GTX 1650. To make matters worse, Nvidia is playing the naming game again and silently released a slower RTX 3060 that's 8GB.
It's about 100% faster than a RX580, but RX580's are also found for around $100. I can find a used 6600 XT for less than $200, but that's gonna be a while before people dump their RX 580's for it. Especially since it's cheap right now, and not for the past 2 years.
I still have my RX 480 that I bought new for $240 before the 2016 Crypto boom occurred. These were $250 GPU's that became $300 when people couldn't stop buying them. When the crypto market crashed in 2018 I then bought a RX 470 for $100. It doesn't matter what the MSRP was or is because prices jump depending on crypto market. Since the crypto market is officially dead, so were those prices, including $300.
There more mid range sku than that, add the 3060TI maybe even the 3070TI and how do would we square there is more 3060 non Ti-3070 non Ti on steam than 1060 6gb-10603gb with no one are buying them ?à
Why and how the price are so ridiculously high if no one are buying them ?
$250 2016 US dollar is at least $310 2022 dollars, the 6650xt on newegg on the link is significantly cheaper than your RX 480 was.
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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You're adding more GPU's to fight against a single GPU. I can add the top 11 used GPU's to the list.
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
Out of these 11 only four are from the RTX 3000 series. Most of them are RTX 3060 GPU's but of different variants. Six of these cards are old GTX cards, and only the RTX 2060 is from 2000 series. That should tell you something about peoples GPU buying habbits, and it shouldn't shock anyone here.
You just answered your own question.
I don't play the inflation game and neither do most people. People don't go out shopping and think it's OK to spend more because inflation. People are spending more money than ever on living, so there's even less money for things like entertainment. If six out of the eleven are from 5 years then people aren't willing to spend more than $250.
Not a single the 1060 has been so high because it is 2 GPU that "misleadingly" share a single SKU on those list, the 1060 3gb and 6gb.
Has long has the older GPU are good enough to not be removed from the field, I am not sure how much we learn about the buying parts, when someone buy a 3070 the old 1060 is probably still getting use either on a secondary machine or in a poorer customer on the used market.
Well no, people buy them that why they are so expensive even on the used market, has the list of steam user showing them at the top is telling us.
Yes they do and yes you do (obviously), i.e. inflation could not happen on luxury product would that be the case, no one go out shopping expecting cars to be the same price than in 1990, everyone that bought a car last year are ok with the fact they cost more than in 1960. Why do you say people are not willing to spend more than $250 after showing a list that show that over 10 millions people just did so ?
https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20220401/bci_data/median_income_table.htm
vs
https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20161101/bci_data/median_income_table.htm
This only changes what you're saying somewhat, but the 1600s are Turing, not Pascal.
Krenum
Fully [H]
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I don't think they're struggling to sell them at all.
Ebay could be a special case but they seem to be selling some of them at a lost:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=4080+rtx&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
$1,379 for an RTX PNY 4080, even if the scalper bought in a state with no sales tax, 1,379 * .87 = $1199.73, there was a Zotac that wend at $1,350 has well, box sealed.
Maybe it is all Facebook marketplace and other free place, but that add work to deal with the transaction personally with a buyer added.
The Asus Strix sold 1,800, that only $1566 going to the buyer, that a card $1550 on ebay before tax, maybe I am missing something but that seem like a struggle to sold them over cost for them.
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somebrains
[H]ard|Gawd
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Central has always been a geek haven.
Late 90s into the mid 2000s it wasn’t unusual to see rows of white box server builds with Central stickers from Howard St on them in the racks at 365 Main in the City.
The adoption of Linux on x86 hardware was a fun time when F5 first started shipping load balancers.
You could hit Central and expand your commodity compute order for a Friday install, run back before close Monday if there were component issues after burn in.
You could also get gpus and components from them whenever a crunch happened.
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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Blame Nvidia for that one. Not my fault Nvidia can't name their GPU's properly. Look what happened to the recent RTX 4080 fiasco. The other one, not this one.
GPU's break so it might be the GTX 1060's are slowly failing and being replaced. Could be 3070's and maybe 1650's?
Before COVID most Americans can't afford the cheapest new car. The used car market is now booming and dealerships are overflowing with repo cars. People can't afford new cars for the same reason why people can't afford new GPU's.
Going as far back as 1960 is too much to explain why we were never OK with inflation. Nobody is Ok with current inflation, it's all over the news how everyone complains about the price of things. It's not like I can go up to a car company and tell them to take their cars and shove it up their ass. I need a car, they have a car, and this is how much they want for said car. We as consumers have very little control in terms of pricing. It just so happens to be the case that a GTX 1060 can still play modern games just fine, but that's also because the PS5 and Xbox Series consoles aren't much faster than a GTX 1060. Nobody's made a game that requires something like a RTX 2070 equivalent or higher. You look at the Steam Hardware Survey and you'll find that a GTX 970 has more representation than a 3080 Ti.
The idiots who bought RTX 4080's to sell for a higher price were about as disconnected from the economic situation as you are. The fact is Nvidia raised prices because they could, like every other business right now. Nvidia in 2021 had a 52% increase compared to the previous year. In early 2022 it was 61% increase from 2021. Right now Nvidia has declined 16%, and that number is likely to decline much further next year. Nvidia doesn't make a product everyone needs like a car, they make really overpriced GPU's that have a tendency to have bad VRAM due to an earlier set of defective VRAM that isn't being recalled for some reason. The reason we have inflation is mainly because corporations are just increasing prices and making record breaking profits. By the way, AMD isn't exempt from this either.
Yea, they are most likely dumping them for break even or slight loss. Their is nothing that is going to raise the price like crypto. And rumors of a price drop could hurt them further.
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Use action not talk, someone that goes to the restaurant with the high price are by definition Ok with it
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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People are generally dumb when it comes to money. Why you think 2008 happened, because banks were giving bad loans? Housing went nuts just before 2008 happened, because interest rates were low and people thought they could afford it. People who bought houses now probably can't realistically afford them. People who bought cars during the pandemic and unable to afford the payments and are having them repo'd. Restaurants have failed all over the place and the real estate market can't find anyone to buy them. Just because some people paid the asking price doesn't mean it's accepted. Look at the scalpers who bought RTX 4080's and can't get anyone to buy it at the price they paid for it. Quick look on Amazon doesn't seem to have availability problems, and they're priced really close to each other. Some people don't have a problem paying that much for a 4080, but some clearly do.
Housing, food, transportation anything closer to a need will obviously see people not ok with the price forced into buying, a luxury good like a night at the restaurant, movies, gaming etc... is different we enter close if not fully volonturay transactions. And case were if someone paid the asked price, yes that person did accept it or word like forced and accepted become really hard to grasp.
TheGardenTool
2[H]4U
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Yeah just saw this on Facebook for a NIB card. Good riddance and hopefully having to eat tax and some MSRP helps to keep him from doing it more. Although I’m pretty sure I saw the same seller scalping RTX 3000 cards so probably made enough then to help cover these losses.
Flogger23m
[H]F Junkie
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Is inventory for the 3080/3090 thinning out? Wondering if the November shopping spree put a dent in the inventory. Still have Christmas around the corner.
3060ti-3090 is in pretty short supply.
Mchart
Supreme [H]ardness
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Short supply I would say at this point is an understatement. It's basically gone unless you want to deal with a reseller that was never part of official channels. (Scalpers) Nvidia has made it so if you want that level of performance, you're basically looking at a 4080 or a 4070ti.
Is there any info on how many units ship and sell? You'd think with Ethereum mining being dead the market should still be FLOODED with RTX 3000s GPUs, but there aren't many to be seen. I'm starting to think that either PC building is way more mainstream than I believe, or inventory produced (per capita) is far less than it was a decade ago - which I could see given that it's supposedly a lot more challenging to produce at ~5nm (or whatever they are on now) vs ~40nm.
DooKey
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No, it isn't. NV jacked MSRP for the AIB's and they are making bank. NV will still make the same for their GPU package to the AIBs even when the MSRP drops. This is all according to the plan to get rid of 3XXX stock. IMO.
I understand the wish that NV loses money because of the prices but wishes and reality don't jive most times.
Nvidia already did, they dropped the price of the 4080 and 4090 cards across the EU by 5% as a "market correction" and "not in reaction to the AMD cards", they go into effect later next week. They have similar price cuts going on around the globe, it's already a thing.
Yes the MSRP on the 4000 cards was intentionally stupid to drive the 3000's out, and it has worked but under the new pricing, the MSRP difference between a 4080 and the 7900xtx is down from $200 to $140, assuming the 7900xtx exists for more than a few minutes at that $999 price point.
somebrains
[H]ard|Gawd
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I’m just saddened by the beanie baby behavior that’s persistent.
A quick scan of my local Craigslist is still showing listings from people that have no idea wtf they bought, no update to the price, and in general a lack of awareness that 4000 series exists if the listing is for 3000/2000 gpu
A quick scan of my local Craigslist is still showing listings from people that have no idea wtf they bought, no update to the price, and in general a lack of awareness that 4000 series exists if the listing is for 3000/2000 gpu
Ok guys. Just think about it : a 4080 has no reason to cost more than a 7900XTX. It has less raster power and less Vram. Nvidia may lower its MSRP price to $1000, once 7900 are available for real (I think December 13 will be a paper launch so it may happen later).
I am quite sure of that.
And also the 4070Ti will be much less than announced $900, probably around $700 MSRP.
And I bet that after Christmas maybe in January 3080Ti and 3090Ti will drop to much lower prices. Probably $900 for the 3090Ti and $650 or less for the 3080Ti. It seems Nvidia have tons of that GPU and needs to get rid of them. They'll make as much money they can from them for Christmas and after that they will be on sale with the nice price needed to clean the market like they did for Kepler, if some people can remember.
I am quite sure of that.
And also the 4070Ti will be much less than announced $900, probably around $700 MSRP.
And I bet that after Christmas maybe in January 3080Ti and 3090Ti will drop to much lower prices. Probably $900 for the 3090Ti and $650 or less for the 3080Ti. It seems Nvidia have tons of that GPU and needs to get rid of them. They'll make as much money they can from them for Christmas and after that they will be on sale with the nice price needed to clean the market like they did for Kepler, if some people can remember.
Does it though? The leaks so far have the 7900xtx either 1% faster or 15% slower than the 4080 with none of the NVidia feature or tech library that comes with it. The 4080 is looking to MSRP for 14% more than a 7900xtx getting you 15% more performance. The price of both cards are too high but the price difference is pretty linear.
And if it is a paper launch that means the 7900xtx cards aren’t going to be widely available until Feb-March at the earliest as not much leaves China in Jan due to holidays and such. It would also mean that the 7900xtx cards are going to be sold for well over MSRP should there be a market for them. So ultimately you could be right and the 4080 won’t cost more than a 7900xtx for the next while.
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=3080+RTX+TI&N=8000 4814 601385735 100007709
Yet newegg seem to have none to sells
We have found 0 items that match "3080 RTX TI".
I am not sure how we can square the nvidia has a ton of gpu to get rid of with the fact that newegg seem to have only scalpers retailer selling them for much more than a 4080 (or just the complete absence of push or any deal during the black fridays weekend, that would have been an odd strategy).
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Canadian distribution channel is about tapped too.
Canada Computers
BlueStar
NewEgg
TechData
IngramMicro
All running on empty.
If that's the case, mission accomplished for Nvidia. They've moved all of their old stock.
somebrains
[H]ard|Gawd
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Nvidia features are key.
Rtx voice, nvenc, being able to play with the emerging GPT based code, it’s all something AMD needs to catch up for their pricing to make sense to me.