Sapphire 7950 Dual-X vs Vapor-X

X

XTF

Gawd
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
591
I've the Dual-X and its been very good, no coil whine unless I'm doing 1000+ fps on menu screens (and barely audible in that case), loading screens and such and stays very cool.
This is a good card in my opinion.
 
I don't think coil whine is a symptom of a dying card. Most video cards and electronics that use these type of coils will have some whine when under load.


Too bad yours 950mhz edition died.

Not sure about the dimensions but looking at back side photos of PCB they look the same size. Maybe the heat sink differences stretches out overall length.


HIS ICEQ x2 boost looks great as well.


I like the Vapor X best but it is custom PCB and will not fit proper full cover water block.
 
SonDa5 said:
I don't think coil whine is a symptom of a dying card. Most video cards and electronics that use these type of coils will have some whine when under load.
Click to expand...
The whining and the dying are probably unrelated. Sapphire said a small component on the back was missing and send the card back with a "Customer Induced Damage" note.

Why don't they use other / better coils that don't whine?
This one had coil whine on the desktop too.
Not sure about the dimensions but looking at back side photos of PCB they look the same size. Maybe the heat sink differences stretches out overall length.


HIS ICEQ x2 boost looks great as well.


I like the Vapor X best but it is custom PCB and will not fit proper full cover water block.
Click to expand...
I've got no plans for WC. HIS 7950 doesn't appear to be available in the Netherlands.
 
XTF said:
The whining and the dying are probably unrelated. Sapphire said a small component on the back was missing and send the card back with a "Customer Induced Damage" note.

Why don't they use other / better coils that don't whine?
This one had coil whine on the desktop too.

I've got no plans for WC. HIS 7950 doesn't appear to be available in the Netherlands.
Click to expand...



I think the coil whine problem is just part of the design of coils and until they are designed better the whine will be there. I have also read that having a high quality power supply also helps deliver low ripple power will also help relieve whine. Another thing that I have read is about PIC-E power cables that have a bypass/decoupling capacitors inline right before it connects to the video card. This bypass/decoupoing capacitor is supposed to help clean up ripple and reduce coil whine.


The Vapor X has Black Diamond solid chokes on the card which are supposed to improve electrical power performance and reduce coil whine.

From Sapphire: http://www.sapphiretech.com/VaporX/VaporX_paper.html

The Vapor-X Series also incorporates several SAPPHIRE developments that contribute to better efficiency and high reliability, such as the use of solid electrolyte capacitors and the (patent pending) SAPPHIRE Black Diamond choke. The high-polymer aluminium capacitors used have characteristics superior to regular aluminium capacitors for longer product life. The choke is an important component of the power regulation on a graphics card, and the SAPPHIRE Black Diamond choke with integral heatsink runs 10% cooler and with 25% more power efficiency than a normal choke.
Click to expand...

If coil whine is problem for you I would make sure you have a good power supply and I think the Vapor X card should make less coil whine than other cards based on the technology that it uses.


Also I have read that capacitors that whine can get quieter after they do their thing in break in.



So if no full cover water block is needed I would choose the Vapor X HD7950 that has the 2x8 pin power connectors and awesome PCB. Hopefully you will get a nice high quality GPU to compliment the PCB.
 
SonDa5 said:
The Vapor X has Black Diamond solid chokes on the card which are supposed to improve electrical power performance and reduce coil whine.

From Sapphire: http://www.sapphiretech.com/VaporX/VaporX_paper.html
Click to expand...

It's BS. Those "Black Diamond" s are cheaper chokes and that blue PCB usually leads to lower quality, Foxconn made cards. Those Sapphire makes most their cards themselves, so it's unlike nVidia.

The Dual-X is a better card because it has a Volterra VRM with Cooper Bussmann chokes. Volterra VRM + CPL chokes = best solution. There's nothing better than Volterra VRM.
 
johnnydoe said:
It's BS. Those "Black Diamond" s are cheaper chokes and that blue PCB usually leads to lower quality, Foxconn made cards. Those Sapphire makes most their cards themselves, so it's unlike nVidia.

The Dual-X is a better card because it has a Volterra VRM with Cooper Bussmann chokes. Volterra VRM + CPL chokes = best solution. There's nothing better than Volterra VRM.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if the Busman chokes are better than the Black Diamond chokes or which one has a higher rating. Sapphire claims the Black Diamond is superior.

I don't think the color of the PCB matters other than aesthetics. :D

The Vapor X card in photos that I have seen appears to be using a Volterra VRM and has the most powerful looking VRM design that I have seen on any HD7950.

front.jpg



The Dual X HD7950 doesn't use Busman chokes or Voltera VRM.


The Sapphire 950mhz Edition with the reference HD7970 PCB does use Busman chokes and Voltera VRM but doesn't have as many phases as the Vapor X.


To me it looks like Sapphire went balls out with the Vapor X on the design.
 
SonDa5 said:
I am not sure if the Busman chokes are better than the Black Diamond chokes or which one has a higher rating. Sapphire claims the Black Diamond is superior.
Click to expand...

Like I said, there's nothing better than CPL chokes. They're the most expensive and the highest current inrush capable chokes, and offer the most rock solid regulation stability.

There's actually no choke called "Black Diamond". That's just what Sapphire's marketing division calls them.

SonDa5 said:
I don't think the color of the PCB matters other than aesthetics. :D.
Click to expand...

It doesn't but it's also a giveaway. Blue PCB usually means the card is built in China under the Foxconn factory. Black PCB boards are mostly done by Flextronics in Taiwan or Japan, though, that's the way the things work for nVidia board and not AMD.

Most AMD boards are made by Sapphire, though, Foxconn still makes some, so does, IIRC, Diamond or PowerColor.

SonDa5 said:
The Vapor X card in photos that I have seen appears to be using a Volterra VRM and has the most powerful looking VRM design that I have seen on any HD7950.
Click to expand...

You're right about that. It does indeed use Volterra VRM, but, with hachapichi cheapass chokes.

SonDa5 said:
The Dual X HD7950 doesn't use Busman chokes or Voltera VRM.
Click to expand...

The DualX uses the reference 7970 PCB. It uses both and features the best PCB around.


SonDa5 said:
The Sapphire 950mhz Edition with the reference HD7970 PCB does use Busman chokes and Voltera VRM but doesn't have as many phases as the Vapor X.
Click to expand...

It's about the quality of the phase, not amount. You can have either ten 50W phases buck-converted, or five 25W phases with no buck converter.

The ridicilious amount of phases (such as Gigabyte's 24 Phase BS) are usually just 8 phases split in to 16, then to 24 for example.

With AMD boards, reference is almost always the best quality. That's not the case with nVidia cards as AMD uses top notch Volterra Digital PWM's and such while nVidia just does with regular R125 or R30 chokes. IDK who makes the "R" chokes.
 
johnnydoe said:
The DualX uses the reference 7970 PCB. It uses both and features the best PCB around.
Click to expand...

I have never seen a Dual X HD7950 built with 7970 PCB. The only Sapphire card that uses a DUal X heat sink that uses a reference HD7970 that I have seen with my eyes is the 950mhz edition HD7950.



The regular Dual X HD7950 doesn't use Busman chokes or voltera vrm.


Can you provide some proof about the Black Diamond Chokes? Some white papers? All I have seen comes from Sapphire and it does seem like marketing but there does appears to be a physical change with the design of the chokes. I think it would be more than just cosmetic.

Please provide more proof about the Black Diamond Chokes being low quality and what they are rated for. specifications...
 
SonDa5 said:
Please provide more proof about the Black Diamond Chokes being low quality and what they are rated for. specifications...
Click to expand...
Isn't it on Sapphire (or you) to provide this proof? If they can't back up their marketing we can only assume they're not that good.

What's the power consumption of the Vapor-Xs? Requiring 2x 8 pins seems a bit much for a 7950, that's 300+ W.

SonDa5 said:
I think the coil whine problem is just part of the design of coils and until they are designed better the whine will be there. I have also read that having a high quality power supply also helps deliver low ripple power will also help relieve whine. Another thing that I have read is about PIC-E power cables that have a bypass/decoupling capacitors inline right before it connects to the video card. This bypass/decoupoing capacitor is supposed to help clean up ripple and reduce coil whine.
Click to expand...

Why don't they integrate such capacitors on the videocards themselves?
 
Searching for Black Diamond chokes on Google turns up squat regarding electronics. I think I am going to with johnnydoe about this one. Sapphire has changed the Vapor-X design around since its introduction, there are two or three versions floating around. User reports on this card have been very inconsistent.
 
bigsnyder said:
Searching for Black Diamond chokes on Google turns up squat regarding electronics. I think I am going to with johnnydoe about this one. Sapphire has changed the Vapor-X design around since its introduction, there are two or three versions floating around. User reports on this card have been very inconsistent.
Click to expand...



I don't know what to believe about the black Diamond Chokes till I see some type of specifications on it. I know the busman chokes are legit and they work well. I have been under the impression for a few years now that Sapphire uses the Black Diamond Chokes only on their most premium designed cards and those cards usually cost more MSRP.


The most recent Vapor X HD7950s are supposed to have 8+8 pin power connectors and I have asked and looked for photos of the entire PCB but I haven't found any. I'm going to guess that the latest Vapor X has the Voltera VRM, Hynix memory IC, and the Black Diamond Chokes and the 8+8 pin power connector.


Found a photo of the 8+8 pin power connector.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34314954&postcount=671
 
I know it doesn't really matter, but I'd like to avoid adapters and I'd just like to know why Sapphire went for 2x 8.
Sapphire has so many models and choices like these just don't seem to make sense. Maybe Sapphire just doesn't make sense. :p
 
If all the power connections are connected to the PCB I think adding 2 more conducters will only benefit in providing the PCB with plenty of power and grounding to keep electrons jamming.

I found a photo of the PCB of the 8+8 connection Vapor X HD7950. Best photo i have seen of it so far.

Photo posted by owner Ketxxx
Vapor-X7950front_zps0bd0eec2.jpg
 
SonDa5 said:
If all the power connections are connected to the PCB I think adding 2 more conducters will only benefit in providing the PCB with plenty of power and grounding to keep electrons jamming.
Click to expand...
That's just uneducated speculation, isn't it? Even the 7970 Vapor-X has just 6+8.
 
SonDa5 said:
No. 2 more conducters to take the fury of the load .
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, that's not really an answer. The 2 extra grounds are merely a signalling function. Besides, even with 6+8 the 7950 should have plenty of margin. Don't most 7950 use just 6+6?
 
bigsnyder said:
How is the memory cooled on vapor-x?
Click to expand...

Good question and I think I just found a major weakness for over clocking with the heat sink design.

Memory makes contact directly with the main Dual X heat sink.

Photo compliments to TPU.

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7950_Vapor-X/images/cooler2_small.jpg


I think this design has some win and lose at the same time. This heat sink will get soaked with heat when over clocking the memory and gpu core with this design.
 
Last edited:
@Stupac

Yes, you can see Dual-X stickers on the center of the fans.

@SonDa5

Thanks for the picture. I have just recently seen that as well. Most 7950s have only a metal plate cooling the memory which usually also is cooling the VRMs. Considering the cooler usually rates very well, My guess is that it is more than adequate to cool both the GPU and memory chips and probably more efficiently than the previous mentioned method. LIke you said, could also work against itself, hard to really know for sure without some specific testing.

Interesting, the Vapor-X model is currently listed as discontinued on Newegg.
 
Last edited:
bigsnyder said:
@Stupac

Yes, you can see Dual-X stickers on the center of the fans.

Interesting, the Vapor-X model is currently listed as discontinued on Newegg.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Yea I was just noticing that this morning that Vapor-X was gone. Maybe it was only a limited run?
 
SonDa5 said:
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You tell him SonDa5! He stole my line!
I am going to lose my nickname "sarcastic prick" if I dont get back on track. :)

Where are the pics! Thats a beefy card in a small space. Temps?! :)
 
Decided on the Vapor-X to install in my micro BTX system :p ... Just kidding. Will report Wednesday.
 
Hagrid said:
Where are the pics! Thats a beefy card in a small space. Temps?! :)
Click to expand...



No pics yet. Waiting for the card to arrive and then I will post some photos.

Might take a few weeks to post photos of my new mini ITX build.


It's going to be water cooled so I went with a monster size case.


Should look something like this....



1264933
 
My 7950 Dual-X gets in today, it's replacing 2 GTX 460s, we'll see how it goes.
 
Hagrid said:
Where are the pics! Thats a beefy card in a small space. Temps?! :)
Click to expand...


Have had the card for almost a week and haven't even fired it up yet. :D I did spend some quality time on my mini ITX build though. The Vapor X does fit in my Lian Li A04 case.


LL


Hopefully I can get my RIG completed in the near future. Waiting on some water cooling gear.
 
SonDa5 said:
Good question and I think I just found a major weakness for over clocking with the heat sink design.

Memory makes contact directly with the main Dual X heat sink.

Photo compliments to TPU.

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7950_Vapor-X/images/cooler2_small.jpg


I think this design has some win and lose at the same time. This heat sink will get soaked with heat when over clocking the memory and gpu core with this design.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about buying two of those but is that really a design flaw ? I mean.. won't the heat from memories get transferred faster to the heat pipe and to the fins that way ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top