Samsung UN40KU6300 40-Inch 4K

amenx

Limp Gawd
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Dec 17, 2005
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I have the ku7000 model which I believe is same panel, maybe slightly different smart features. In PC mode, using custom 21:9 res (3840x1620), which is about 25% less pixels than 4k, therefore easier to run games. Looks great since its 1:1 scaling. Plus more convenient for PC usage since it lowers the viewing height a little (black bars). I find the viewing height of full 4k too high on a 40" screen, esp for PC usage. Aside from the 21:9 custom res which lowers the viewing height a little, took off the stand and wall mounted it to where its suspended just 2cm above desktop. That of course lowered the viewing height quite a bit more. Now feel its ideal for PC usage, movies/gaming.
 

cybereality

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Yeah, the custom 21:9 res saved me on Deus Ex, which wasn't running well in 4K, even with a Titan X Pascal.
 

Frito11

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decided to give the Sony XBR43X800E a shot sense i know for me personally i can live with 30 ms input lag but hate visible pixel blur from VA TV's (had numerous in the past i know what its all about) so far really happy with the Sony unit in both windows and games. if anyone has any questions or wants me to check anything let me know.
 

need bb

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Doesn't game mode disable 4:4:4? How is everyone doing calibration in PC mode with all the advanced settings grayed out?
 

andy4theherd

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got the old flickering/glitchy screen earlier today and sure enough had a firmware update. anybody know what it was for?
 

euskalzabe

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got the old flickering/glitchy screen earlier today and sure enough had a firmware update. anybody know what it was for?

Did you go over 1180? I'll check when I get home from work.

UPDATE: Just checked at home, I'm still on 1180 with no newer update available.
 
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cybereality

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I haven't got the update either. But hearing about the Samsung UK TVs that have been bricked by the latest update, I'm a bit concerned.
 

amenx

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The software update, even if successful, may still show 1180 when you look under settings > support > software update. In the support menu, go to the 'contact samsung 'tab where it will have detailed HW/SW versions listed, and here mine says 1180.5
 

houmi

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I've been trying to get HDR working on my PC (Windows 10, Nvidia 1080GTX) and I've had some issues, my settings are as follow:
HDMI UHD Color (On for HDMI1)
Using PC for HDMI1
3840x2160(native) @ 60HZ

If I set the output color to 4:2:2, I can use any color depths (8, 10, 12 bits) and HDR setting can be toggled in Windows 10, though when HDR is on, the colors look very odd/washed up in desktop mode (great while gaming), so I'll have to turn HDR off when not gaming but it's still not optimal.

Ideally I'd like to use 4:4:4 since it gives me best quality for desktop mode, but I can't get it past 8 bits, and also I can't toggle HDR to on while in 4:4:4

Has anyone got HDR working with 4:4:4 on this monitor with Windows 10 ?

Thanks!
Edit: if I change the refresh rate to 30hz I can use 4:4:4 @ 12 bits and HDR can be toggled in Windows 10, I was curious if this can be done @60hz as well.

Edit2: I found this HDMI 2.0 spec, looks like it's not possible... :(

HDMI-color-spaces.png
 
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euskalzabe

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I haven't got the update either. But hearing about the Samsung UK TVs that have been bricked by the latest update, I'm a bit concerned.

Agreed. I'm not in a huge rush, I'd rather they figure it out before sending firmware out.

The software update, even if successful, may still show 1180 when you look under settings > support > software update. In the support menu, go to the 'contact samsung 'tab where it will have detailed HW/SW versions listed, and here mine says 1180.5

1180 is 1180.5. There's no 1180 that's not .5. The main menu simply shows the "big" numbers without extra detail. I found out about this talking to Samsung tech support over the past few months. So there's really no point checking the "exact" number, as it's the same firmware.

I've been trying to get HDR working on my PC (Windows 10, Nvidia 1080GTX) and I've had some issues

As you mentioned, 4K60 10bit over HDMI2.0b is only possible at 4:2:0. No wide-color panels don't really get any benefit at any bid depth over 8bit though, so it depends what your TV supports.

HDR, however, is not well supported yet, and that's Windows' fault (I've also spent a fair amount of time on MSFT support and insider forums). The Fall Creators Update coming next month is supposed to bring a bunch more HDR support, so here's hoping that we can set HDR mode and not have all the colors dim and washed out anymore.
 

houmi

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As you mentioned, 4K60 10bit over HDMI2.0b is only possible at 4:2:0. No wide-color panels don't really get any benefit at any bid depth over 8bit though, so it depends what your TV supports.

HDR, however, is not well supported yet, and that's Windows' fault (I've also spent a fair amount of time on MSFT support and insider forums). The Fall Creators Update coming next month is supposed to bring a bunch more HDR support, so here's hoping that we can set HDR mode and not have all the colors dim and washed out anymore.

I installed Fall creator update today (insider build), and the HDR mode will automatically switch to the best color format/bit depth, seems a bit nicer than going through the nvidia panel each time, the only drawback is that when you disable HDR, it goes back to RGB 8 bit and not 4:4:4 8 bit, when selecting HDR it chooses 4:2:2 10bit.
 

Damn Dirty Ape

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ok I've tried everything to get HDR and no luck whatsoever.

Here is what I've done:

1 latest geforce driver
2. latest firmware on the tv
3. set up input 1 as the instructions here on H tell you to.
4. Set up the control panel (nvidia) settings as I've seen listed here as well.
5. HDMI cable certified for HDR

6 When the tv powers on it only reads UHD on the status line.

I don't what else to try.
 

andy4theherd

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ok I've tried everything to get HDR and no luck whatsoever.

Here is what I've done:

1 latest geforce driver
2. latest firmware on the tv
3. set up input 1 as the instructions here on H tell you to.
4. Set up the control panel (nvidia) settings as I've seen listed here as well.
5. HDMI cable certified for HDR

6 When the tv powers on it only reads UHD on the status line.

I don't what else to try.

in Nvidia control panel you need the following settings:
3840x2160; 60hz
32-bit color depth
YCbCr422 color format
10bpc color depth

after applying those settings Windows should automatically turn on HDR. you can confirm by everything looking like crap and by right clicking on desktop and going to display settings. the top banner on the TV will also have "HDR" in a rectangular box in front of "UHD".

doing the above was the only way i could get HDR to work in the Destiny 2 beta.
 
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andy4theherd

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is there a new consensus as to what PC settings we should be using now?

i have used RGB, 8bit, and full for over a year. with the implementation of HDR in Windows i'm considering going with 4:2:2 and 10bit for gaming.

thoughts?


edit: also, does anybody have TV settings for 4:2:2, 10-bit, HDR? i'm not convinced my carry over settings are ideal.
 

euskalzabe

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Windows should automatically turn on HDR. you can confirm by everything looking like crap

That made me laugh out loud, thanks for the much needed release.

10 bit or 12 bit both work on 4:2:2 for me via my gtx1060. Looks like crap, of course. I contacted Paul Thurrott (Windows journalist) and told me he's going to investigate. Either way the Fall update coming next month should have more HDR support and options. Let's see.
 

houmi

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4:2:2 / 10 bits allows HDR to work, I tested it with No Man's Sky and it looked very nice, though my fps was halved (not sure why)

It doesn't look good in Desktop, so I have to turn HDR off unfortunately.

I am using this on Windows 10 , 16278 rs3 build
 

andy4theherd

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4:2:2 / 10 bits allows HDR to work, I tested it with No Man's Sky and it looked very nice, though my fps was halved (not sure why)

It doesn't look good in Desktop, so I have to turn HDR off unfortunately.

I am using this on Windows 10 , 16278 rs3 build


i lost around 5 fps in Destiny 2 with HDR on. i also found that you do not have to have HDR turned on in Windows for it to work in games. just have 4:2:2 and 10 bit in the video control panel.
 

cybereality

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I think I finally figured out why Game Mode was disabled. You have to change the icon of the screen to "Game Console" (I also renamed from "PC" but I'm not sure if this was needed).

Previously I had to turn my PS4 on whenever Game Mode disabled itself (which could happen maybe once per week) but now I found the easier way to switch it. Hope this helps.
 

houmi

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i lost around 5 fps in Destiny 2 with HDR on. i also found that you do not have to have HDR turned on in Windows for it to work in games. just have 4:2:2 and 10 bit in the video control panel.

Interesting, I did not know! Thanks...
 

houmi

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I noticed this with the latest firmware, since I've been setting my Win10 display setting to 4:2:2 10 bits (HDR), every so often my TV settings switches from PC to HDMI1/DVI on its own on subsequent reboots
 

andy4theherd

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I noticed this with the latest firmware, since I've been setting my Win10 display setting to 4:2:2 10 bits (HDR), every so often my TV settings switches from PC to HDMI1/DVI on its own on subsequent reboots

i had the same issue using 4:4:4 after every reboot. i finally went back to RGB.
 

Ashun

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A while back, GoLDii3 brought up how this TV has pretty bad yellow trailing on black to white transitions, and he linked a video of The Unfinished Swan, which looked, and still looks, pretty bad because of the yellow smearing. We've known about the slow pixel response on this VA panel for a while, but I wanted to investigate why the black to white transition was yellow rather than just a gray smear. With an Arduino and a light probe, I've taken a few measurements that some of the other owners here might be interested in.

Light to dark (falling) transitions on this TV are actually not too bad, but it's the dark to light (rising) that are very slow. To alleviate this, the Samsung does use overdrive on some of its pixel transitions to speed them up. It can't do this for 0 to 255 because there's no additional voltage overhead to goose the transition, so this particular change takes the longest of any I've measured: about 63 ms to 95% of white. But on something like 0 to 80% (which is from black to light gray), it shows a bit of an initial spike, and here the yellow trail is even worse than on pure white.

Here's a pursuit photo taken on the testufo site of a black bar scrolling on an 80% white background:

ColoredLCDTransition_q6rukliq2j.jpg


The black bar here is moving quickly to the right, so looking at it backwards from a pixel's perspective, a gray pixel has to fall to black and then rise back to gray. You can see here the fall has no weird coloring, but the rise is super yellow. This suggests that the RGB subpixels can all fall at the same relative speed, but because of the yellow color on the rise, red and green must be rising faster than blue.

Now, there's no difference in overdrive between any subpixels; they act as light shutters, and if the controller commands fully open, they all fully open, or if the controller specifies some lower state that can use overdrive, all the subpixels are over-driven. So why is the blue subpixel lagging behind? The issue is that the panel's white-LED backlight is very, very blue! This is something that almost all "white" LEDs share. In order to bring this down to a much warmer 6500K, the panel has to dramatically restrict the amount of blue light that passes through. So if the TV is displaying 6500K white, the red and green subpixels can fully open, but the blue subpixel has to be partially closed. From the controller's perspective, that puts blue in a different overdrive state than red and green.

The KU6300 has four Color Tone options: Cool, Standard, Warm1, and Warm2. Cool is the bluest of the bunch at approximately 10000K, whereas Warm2 is around 6500K. Here's a comparison of just how much blue light has to be blocked when going from Cool to Warm2:

SamRelBrightness_79st1nn8xo.png


Red and green are only in single digit percentage differences, but blue drops 46%! GoLDii3 noticed way back in this thead that the yellow smearing could be remedied somewhat by using the Cool Color Tone option. That makes a difference because it allows the blue subpixel to open almost as wide as the other subpixels.

Let's take a look at some of the Arduino data to see the actual difference in RGB rise times. These are 0% to 80% and then from 80% to 0%.

Cool first:

SamTrans_Cool_j7f9630w1n.png


Even with the TV set in Cool mode, the blue subpixel is still closed off more relative to the other subpixels. It doesn't get that overdrive spike, which makes it lower and slower than the red and green. This is the yellow smear. Note that the fall times are all pretty quick, and more importantly, they are consistent. That explains why there is no coloration on the leading edge of the moving black bar.

Warm2:

SamTransWarm2_sln8q9hp5p.png


You can get an idea of just how much blue has to be restricted from this image. Red was a little brighter, green a little darker, but they still have that overdrive peak, which blue doesn't get.

The takeaway here? "White" backlight LEDs aren't white at all; they are far too blue, leading to the blue subpixels losing much of their dynamic range. For newer LCD TVs, the backlight should be tuned as closely as possible to 6500K so the pixel elements aren't doing all the work to reduce the color temperature.

Still, I'm pretty happy with the KU6300. I was hoping for some new developments in the 40" range since this came out, but I guess I'll keep on waiting.
 

cybereality

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Awesome! Thanks so much for the details.

All in all, this was still a great buy at $500. Though, truthfully, I've spent a LOT more just upgrading my rig to be able to drive 4K.

The motion clarity is somewhat lacking (especially compared to my 144Hz monitor) but I'm not sure there is anything much better at 40", all things taken into account.

I'm very much interested to see what will happen with the high refresh OLEDs coming from LG next year, but I doubt they will come in 40" size. Or maybe monitors will get bigger. Sort of in a strange in-between right now.
 

Ashun

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Hah! I'm kind of in the same boat. I have another system with a 980 Ti driving a CRT, but I'm still considering upgrading my 1070 because it's not quite good enough for 4K. This TV is actually pretty OK for playing racing games with a controller. Forza 7 looks great, and I'm spending a lot of time with The Crew. Using a controller hides quite a bit of the input lag.

Check that avsforum thread on the OLEDs. Even though I'd love a 40" or even a 32" OLED, I'm not sure we're going to be seeing any monitors soon if they can't get the burn-in/image retention under control.
 
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My next upgrade has to do hdr10+4:4:4 4k@60hz at around 15ms of input lag. TCL has set this bar with the p607 but it's 55". I'd love Samsung to come out with something similar in the 40" space
 

cybereality

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So I'm not sure if this is because of the new update (1206) or something else, but the bad motion trails and ghosting are almost completely gone!

I tried some of the tests I did before, viewing a white website with black icons, some text in Notepad, etc. and I'm definitely not seeing the ghosting I was before. It's so much better.

Gonna try a game now and see if it helps. Has anyone else got the update and can confirm? I've also changed some other things, updating Windows, AMD drivers, etc. but I can't see how that would fix it.

This is a game changer for this TV.
 

Damn Dirty Ape

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in Nvidia control panel you need the following settings:
3840x2160; 60hz
32-bit color depth
YCbCr422 color format
10bpc color depth

after applying those settings Windows should automatically turn on HDR. you can confirm by everything looking like crap and by right clicking on desktop and going to display settings. the top banner on the TV will also have "HDR" in a rectangular box in front of "UHD".

doing the above was the only way i could get HDR to work in the Destiny 2 beta.

using the settings on H and above here give me a yellowed, dim dull screen. This is so frustrating at this point.
 

Ashun

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Damn Dirty Ape Are you still trying to get HDR working, or are you talking about calibration settings in general? I have a colorimeter and can give you my settings if you need. Your panel may differ slightly, but I wouldn't except so much that my settings wouldn't get you close to 6500K.

cybereality I did my most recent testing with the 1206 firmware, and the transitions are as slow as they've always been.
 

cybereality

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Ashun That's really strange. I'm sure I'm seeing an improvement, on sites I always visit and just on black text on white background like in Notepad (and I tried this test a bunch when I first got the TV).

But honestly, a lot has changed on my system recently, upgraded to Vega, new AMD drivers, Windows Creator and Fall updates, along with the TV firmware updates. I don't know, something has changed for the better.

Can you recommend a way to test this on my side? My phone can record 240fps, is that enough to get a good recording?
 
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Citizen86

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Thanks for that in depth post Ashun. I had mentioned the same thing that I've seen on two of these displays now earlier in this thread, and was basically told my settings were wrong. Well with the correct settings it still happens. I use this monitor mostly for desktop work and coding, so it hasn't been a huge issue, but watching video is very noticeable as even people moving their faces can cause the smearing effect, and a lot of websites show a smear when I scroll.

I'm still on 1203 so I'm going to upgrade to 1206 and see if it helps for me too.
 

SuplexCity

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Damn Dirty Ape Are you still trying to get HDR working, or are you talking about calibration settings in general? I have a colorimeter and can give you my settings if you need. Your panel may differ slightly, but I wouldn't except so much that my settings wouldn't get you close to 6500K.

cybereality I did my most recent testing with the 1206 firmware, and the transitions are as slow as they've always been.

Hi, can you please share your settings ?
 

Ashun

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SuplexCity Sure! These settings work on my display (firmware 1207) and give a DE below 2 for nearly every color. As I mentioned to Ape, these should get you in the ballpark, but without a colorimeter, you can only expect so much. If you're used to most displays, which usually ship way too blue, using these may look dingy at first, but stick with it.

There are different settings for different device types. The first is for the input specified as "PC" and the second is for other types. I've calibrated the PC settings with a backlight setting of 11 (approx. 176 cd/m^2) to keep the backlight from using PWM dimming, and to preserve your eyes when you look at normal websites with white backgrounds. For the other modes, I use the full brightness of the backlight, set at 20 (approx. 276 cd/m^2). I presume you're using these modes for movies or HDR stuff, so you'll want the extra brightness.

PC Mode

Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 11
Brightness: 46
Contrast: 95
Sharpness: 50 (default for PC)
HDMI Black Level: Normal
Color Tone: Warm2
Gamma: -2

PC mode only allows a 2-point gamma adjustment via RGB offsets and gains.
R_o: 5
G_o: -4
B_o: -26

R_g: -5
G_g: 6
B_g: -14


Other Modes (keep everything not mentioned the same as PC Mode)

Picture Mode: Movie
Backlight: 20
Sharpness: 0 (default for non-PC modes... confusing)
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: -3

For White Balance, we have to adjust both 2-point and 10-point.

2-Point first:
R_o: 2
G_o: 0
B_o: -8

R_g: 1
G_g: 0
B_g: -18

For 10-point, I'll post each setting as such: %: R, G, and B

10%: 14, 16, -42
20%: 7, 6, -49
30%: 0, 7, -28
40%: -3, 6, -23
50%: -2, 5, -21
60%: -6, 5, -14
70%: -9, 5, -14
80%: -10, 7, -7
90%: -9, 5, -4
100%: -4, 3, 7

And we need to adjust the Color Space to Custom:
Each of the primaries and secondaries (Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan, Magenta) have three values for R, G, and B:

R: 50, 0, 2
G: 8, 50, 4
B: 0, 6, 50
Y: 50, 49, 3
C: 0, 49, 51
M: 44, 2, 50
 

cybereality

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Can anyone recommend a good 4 or 5-port HDMI switch that will work on this TV? Meaning 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDR compatible. I've gone through 4 different switches so far, all which claim full HDMI 2.0 support, and all of them with different problems.

Only one of the switches could even handle 4:4:4 HDR, but resulted in intermittent black screens. The other 3 don't even work once UHD color is enabled on the TV, meaning 4:4:4 and HDR can't be selected.

I thought it might be the cables, but I've tested the cables connected directly to the TV and they work, but not with the switch. Any advice?
 

Metsuki

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SuplexCity Sure! These settings work on my display (firmware 1207) and give a DE below 2 for nearly every color. As I mentioned to Ape, these should get you in the ballpark, but without a colorimeter, you can only expect so much. If you're used to most displays, which usually ship way too blue, using these may look dingy at first, but stick with it.

There are different settings for different device types. The first is for the input specified as "PC" and the second is for other types. I've calibrated the PC settings with a backlight setting of 11 (approx. 176 cd/m^2) to keep the backlight from using PWM dimming, and to preserve your eyes when you look at normal websites with white backgrounds. For the other modes, I use the full brightness of the backlight, set at 20 (approx. 276 cd/m^2). I presume you're using these modes for movies or HDR stuff, so you'll want the extra brightness.

PC Mode

Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 11
Brightness: 46
Contrast: 95
Sharpness: 50 (default for PC)
HDMI Black Level: Normal
Color Tone: Warm2
Gamma: -2

PC mode only allows a 2-point gamma adjustment via RGB offsets and gains.
R_o: 5
G_o: -4
B_o: -26

R_g: -5
G_g: 6
B_g: -14


Other Modes (keep everything not mentioned the same as PC Mode)

Picture Mode: Movie
Backlight: 20
Sharpness: 0 (default for non-PC modes... confusing)
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: -3

For White Balance, we have to adjust both 2-point and 10-point.

2-Point first:
R_o: 2
G_o: 0
B_o: -8

R_g: 1
G_g: 0
B_g: -18

For 10-point, I'll post each setting as such: %: R, G, and B

10%: 14, 16, -42
20%: 7, 6, -49
30%: 0, 7, -28
40%: -3, 6, -23
50%: -2, 5, -21
60%: -6, 5, -14
70%: -9, 5, -14
80%: -10, 7, -7
90%: -9, 5, -4
100%: -4, 3, 7

And we need to adjust the Color Space to Custom:
Each of the primaries and secondaries (Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan, Magenta) have three values for R, G, and B:

R: 50, 0, 2
G: 8, 50, 4
B: 0, 6, 50
Y: 50, 49, 3
C: 0, 49, 51
M: 44, 2, 50


Hi, can you tell me what gamma curve were you targeting with these settings?
I used your white point settings in PC mode and it looks great, it looks exactly like my old nexus 5x (at least to my eyes), which has a gamma of 2.2.

PS: Also, what device did you use to calibrate? I might be interested in acquiring one in the future.
 
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Ashun

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Mar 4, 2016
Messages
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Samsung targets BT.1886. Here are the gamma results for PC mode:

Sams_PC_gamma_8kjuycs65f.png


White line is the target response, while the yellow is measured. I know it's a bit off, but if you start adjusting the brightness and contrast settings to make the whole line track better, you start clipping detail in the near-black and near-white regions.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php

Check to see if you can still discern each swatch.

I'm using a Monaco Optix XR that I found pretty cheap on eBay, recommended by spacediver. It works great, but it's old, so you'll have to disable driver signature enforcement to install the drivers.
 

SuplexCity

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SuplexCity Sure! These settings work on my display (firmware 1207) and give a DE below 2 for nearly every color. As I mentioned to Ape, these should get you in the ballpark, but without a colorimeter, you can only expect so much. If you're used to most displays, which usually ship way too blue, using these may look dingy at first, but stick with it.

There are different settings for different device types. The first is for the input specified as "PC" and the second is for other types. I've calibrated the PC settings with a backlight setting of 11 (approx. 176 cd/m^2) to keep the backlight from using PWM dimming, and to preserve your eyes when you look at normal websites with white backgrounds. For the other modes, I use the full brightness of the backlight, set at 20 (approx. 276 cd/m^2). I presume you're using these modes for movies or HDR stuff, so you'll want the extra brightness.

PC Mode

Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 11
Brightness: 46
Contrast: 95
Sharpness: 50 (default for PC)
HDMI Black Level: Normal
Color Tone: Warm2
Gamma: -2

PC mode only allows a 2-point gamma adjustment via RGB offsets and gains.
R_o: 5
G_o: -4
B_o: -26

R_g: -5
G_g: 6
B_g: -14


Other Modes (keep everything not mentioned the same as PC Mode)

Picture Mode: Movie
Backlight: 20
Sharpness: 0 (default for non-PC modes... confusing)
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: -3

For White Balance, we have to adjust both 2-point and 10-point.

2-Point first:
R_o: 2
G_o: 0
B_o: -8

R_g: 1
G_g: 0
B_g: -18

For 10-point, I'll post each setting as such: %: R, G, and B

10%: 14, 16, -42
20%: 7, 6, -49
30%: 0, 7, -28
40%: -3, 6, -23
50%: -2, 5, -21
60%: -6, 5, -14
70%: -9, 5, -14
80%: -10, 7, -7
90%: -9, 5, -4
100%: -4, 3, 7

And we need to adjust the Color Space to Custom:
Each of the primaries and secondaries (Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan, Magenta) have three values for R, G, and B:

R: 50, 0, 2
G: 8, 50, 4
B: 0, 6, 50
Y: 50, 49, 3
C: 0, 49, 51
M: 44, 2, 50


Just tried these and it looks great!

I usually keep the PC mode for all sort of stuff(gaming, movies, web browsing). I am not using this TV as my monitor, instead its kind of a secondary monitor and I switch to it whenever I game or watch a movie. In that case what changes would you suggest to your PC mode settings ?

Thanks a lot!
 
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