Samsung SA850 on PLS - the first review has been published (preproduction unit)

I had two 24" monitors both had a little back light bleeding at the top. This is also the only part of the monitor that is not perfectly flat. There is a slight curve to the top which may be the cause of the bleed. I found it strange that two models have bleeding in almost the same spots. The one that had less bleeding I had to return cause there was a small chip in the coating that I didn't notice at first.

I could keep returning to find the perfect one, but its more trouble than its worth.

For nearly 500 bucks for the 24" I think quality could of been better.
 
Higher price can sometimes equal higher manufacturing quality and lower tolerances.

NEC has ColorComp and Eizo has DUE (digital uniformity) compensation that helps by using digital adjustments to compensate for bright/dark spots on the screen.

They don't necessarily cherry-pick panels though there are rumours confirming and denying, they use a factory process to illuminate the panels, detect the brightness differences across them and adjust electronics accordingly.

The Eizo version is non defeatable and the NEC version can be turned on/off, up/down in strength.

Is the uniformity compensetion technology used by NEC and Eizo really enough to compensate the excessive uniformity issues and backlight bleed seen on some mass market monitors?

Also, if the uniformity compensetion technology is really that effective, then how come it's not used by more (or all) monitor manufacturers? Doesn't sound like a technology that could be that expensive?
 
Considering the disappointing backlight and contrast issues, I am now starting to look ahead to the eminent release of NEC's new e-IPS standard gamut display - the P241W-BK. (Not to be confused with PA241W-BK.) A few online stores now have it listed, but it's not yet in stock.

http://www.necdisplay.com/p/desktop-monitors/p241w-bk

At least NEC has a good track record. Hopefully they will take a page from Samsung's playbook and go easy on the AG coating.
 
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Is the uniformity compensetion technology used by NEC and Eizo really enough to compensate the excessive uniformity issues and backlight bleed seen on some mass market monitors?

Also, if the uniformity compensetion technology is really that effective, then how come it's not used by more (or all) monitor manufacturers? Doesn't sound like a technology that could be that expensive?
I believe compensation technology only works for colors, ie it will make whites more uniform but won't fix backlight bleeding. As for why it's not used by all manufacturers, it actually does sound like something that would drive the price up considerably.

What I don't get is how come none of the large, high resolution IPS/PLS displays feature an A-TW polarizer, and yet smaller panels used to come with one. Those monitors are already quite expensive and I imagine most people in the market for one would choose to pay some extra to get rid of the glow which is a real problem on screens of that size.
 
Is the uniformity compensetion technology used by NEC and Eizo really enough to compensate the excessive uniformity issues and backlight bleed seen on some mass market monitors?

Also, if the uniformity compensetion technology is really that effective, then how come it's not used by more (or all) monitor manufacturers? Doesn't sound like a technology that could be that expensive?

It doesn't affect or correct backlight bleeding, since IPS or PVA panels in their off-state are blocking light. This is the opposite of TN panels. If it tried to correct black level, it would mean rising the black level in areas not affected by bleeding, which really wouldn't look good. I have not owned an Eizo with DUE to verify this, but ColorComp with NECs have no effect on black levels.

Hmm, implementing this per-panel individual measurements in many locations and implementing a correction matrix would take time and hence increase the cost. The market segment that Dell, Samsung, HP etc. is very different than the models implementing DUE/CC try to appeal to. It's not like as if Dell etc. are particularly focusing on innovative monitor features that really make a visual difference. Their focus is not to bring something innovative, such as the pioneering true LED-backlit, wide gamut NEC LCD2180, an A-TW polarizer (or similar), or hardware calibration, or software to control the OSD from your PC. Or like Eizo that experiments with a 36" 3D QHD monitor. These are just examples.
 
this 27" 850d monitor has been out for a month now and is still in stock at alot of places. how com there isnt any good reviews with pictures and test data. (other than the preproduction review from 6 months ago) . there must be 1000 monitors out there, sombody needs to do a good review.:D
 
this 27" 850d monitor has been out for a month now and is still in stock at alot of places. how com there isnt any good reviews with pictures and test data. (other than the preproduction review from 6 months ago) . there must be 1000 monitors out there, sombody needs to do a good review.:D

QFT :p
 
Is the uniformity compensetion technology used by NEC and Eizo really enough to compensate the excessive uniformity issues and backlight bleed seen on some mass market monitors?

Also, if the uniformity compensetion technology is really that effective, then how come it's not used by more (or all) monitor manufacturers? Doesn't sound like a technology that could be that expensive?

Hmm I'd also guess that displays are binned like every other silicon industry product.
 
Is the uniformity compensetion technology used by NEC and Eizo really enough to compensate the excessive uniformity issues and backlight bleed seen on some mass market monitors?

Also, if the uniformity compensetion technology is really that effective, then how come it's not used by more (or all) monitor manufacturers? Doesn't sound like a technology that could be that expensive?

It's not an expensive technology per se, but costly because it is done on a panel-by-panel basis. Each panel is checked, analyzed and a uniformity map is made of the brightness levels on different areas of the panel.

Them simply running this process is an extra cost in manufacturing.

Back light Bleed is different, as it's usually undue or uneven pressure on the panel from behind or a corner, or even some bending of the panel by the structure of the monitor/TV. Samsung has often had clouding issues especially with CCFL TVs that were too thin.

It has less to do with panel technology than construction tolerance.

I had a friend who bought an earlier A850 top-of-line Samsung LCD TV and, on first inspection blacks were spectacular, but 5 minutes after the internals warmed up and things started expanding slightly, big blotchy backlight clouds appeared on black.
 
It's not an expensive technology per se, but costly because it is done on a panel-by-panel basis. Each panel is checked, analyzed and a uniformity map is made of the brightness levels on different areas of the panel.

Sounds like it could be done more or less automatically as a step on the production line, so it shouldn't add much to the cost. And even if the step includes some manual labour, it should still be quite cheap due to the low wages in the factories where the monitors are produced.

Same thing with for example cell phones where Radio Frequency parameters must be trimmed for each unit, and you can still get cell phones dirt cheap.
 
I just got my SA850 and it's right next to my Dell U2711. I'm definitely not impressed with the brightness or the quality of the whites on this monitor. Going to use it for another day or two and then ship it back to Buy.com.
 
I just got my SA850 and it's right next to my Dell U2711. I'm definitely not impressed with the brightness or the quality of the whites on this monitor. Going to use it for another day or two and then ship it back to Buy.com.

How about making some pictures? You got 2 screens of 800+ dollar but you dont have a camera to make a photo?

I got 3 27 inch 850s in eyefinitiy im not impressed with the quality........... c what i did there.
 
Yeah, some pictures and more info would be useful as well. What's wrong with the whites? Isn't the max brightness supposed to be very high on this monitor?
 
I just got my SA850 and it's right next to my Dell U2711. I'm definitely not impressed with the brightness or the quality of the whites on this monitor. Going to use it for another day or two and then ship it back to Buy.com.
How is it for 720p/1080p movies? Is the Backlight so perfect that it is not worth mentioning? Ghosting? Fit and finish? PLS Glow? Sturdy stand? Perfect AG coating that does not shimmer?
 
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How is it for 720p/1080p movies? Is the Backlight so perfect that it is not worth mentioning? Ghosting? Fit and finish? PLS Glow? Sturdy stand? Perfect AG coating that does not shimmer?

He doesnt have the monitor, just some troll trying to be cool.
 
I forgot I took these two pictures while I had the monitor. I know they don't really tell you anything, but I thought I better post them anyways.

111kv8y.jpg


8vy90w.jpg
 
I'm returning the 24" model. The amount of glow and back light bleeding was too much for me. Even though it wasn't excessive. But for nearly 500 bucks I expected more. 5ms response time was the fastest I've heard of for a screen just as good as IPS.

The color, viewing angles, etc were fine for me. If it wasn't for BLB and glow I would of kept it.
Currently using a TN 120hz display, but the vertical color shift is bugging me, so I'll have to wait for another IPS or PLS screen with better quality to come along.
 
I'm returning the 24" model. The amount of glow and back light bleeding was too much for me. Even though it wasn't excessive. But for nearly 500 bucks I expected more. 5ms response time was the fastest I've heard of for a screen just as good as IPS.

The color, viewing angles, etc were fine for me. If it wasn't for BLB and glow I would of kept it.
Currently using a TN 120hz display, but the vertical color shift is bugging me, so I'll have to wait for another IPS or PLS screen with better quality to come along.

what monitor do you had before this?
 
I'm a bit torn. I think the monitor looks pretty spectacular next to my 24" Benq TN panel that I've had for about 3 years. I never really noticed the backlight bleed. After setting the screen saver to blank I took the following pictures in a dark room. I couldn't figure out how to easily turn off the lights on my Alienware keyboard. :)

So I'm debating on whether I should return this monitor to PC Nation or if I should just settle for the backlight bleed the way it is.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/u4ndwQbVZuuFLZC_rtKQxCTwilHgysc8Diu99IT5yuw?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JZ8IZ1-wUWi5ckW7jvSVXyTwilHgysc8Diu99IT5yuw?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/IPG1wjHdM7BXQ-MefS9qTyTwilHgysc8Diu99IT5yuw?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yNlbBxcq7i05eITDsqErIyTwilHgysc8Diu99IT5yuw?feat=directlink
 
IMO I think thats a lot of bleed for $500. The planar TN display that I have has very little backlight bleed. Its really a quality issue. I'd pay more for those issues fixed.

BLB is really annoying in games that have dark scenes.
 
Today I noticed what seems to be dust in between the glass and the LCD on my monitor. It's only noticeable on light backgrounds.

It's not a dead pixel, because it seems to leave a shadow on the LCD panel (or its on the LCD which leaves a shadow on the glass). It's also somewhat abnormally shaped and bigger than just one pixel. It might even just be some weird black smudge on the inside glass.

I've tried using suction on the glass and trying to tap whatever it is down but no luck.

Any suggestions? Is an exchange the only option? Would a local computer repair shop be faster?
 
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Is it a tiny scratch in the coating, one of the 24" models I returned had that and it looked like a bright spot. If you can feel it with your finger, then its probably a defect in the coating or it got scratched somehow.
 
IMO I think thats a lot of bleed for $500. The planar TN display that I have has very little backlight bleed. Its really a quality issue. I'd pay more for those issues fixed.

BLB is really annoying in games that have dark scenes.

Actually its the 27" so I paid closer to $900.

I was just looking at the pcnation.com return policy. It looks like I need to get Samsung to indicate that the monitor is defective before they will accept the return for an identical replacement monitor. I'm guessing that all of the SA850's have the problem so now I'm in a dilemma. I really want my money back so I can buy a different monitor that doesn't have the BLB problem.

http://www.pcnation.com/web/returnpolicy.asp

Any suggestions from the readers would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sam
 
Are you sure it's all backlight bleed and not just PLS glow? Try taking a picture from straight on and from some distance too. A 16:9 27" monitor is very wide, it is always going to have some glow in the corners from closer distance.
 
Today I noticed what seems to be dust in between the glass and the LCD on my monitor. It's only noticeable on light backgrounds.

It's not a dead pixel, because it seems to leave a shadow on the LCD panel (or its on the LCD which leaves a shadow on the glass). It's also somewhat abnormally shaped and bigger than just one pixel. It might even just be some weird black smudge on the inside glass.

I've tried using suction on the glass and trying to tap whatever it is down but no luck.

Any suggestions? Is an exchange the only option? Would a local computer repair shop be faster?

Mine had the exact same problem. I counted seven trapped dust/dirt spots in and around the center of the screen.
 
Are you sure it's all backlight bleed and not just PLS glow? Try taking a picture from straight on and from some distance too. A 16:9 27" monitor is very wide, it is always going to have some glow in the corners from closer distance.

Good question. I'm not really familiar with PLS glow at all. I found this post describing it --> http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035059033&postcount=1425

I will check it on an angle tonight and report back. I'm currently leaning towards keeping the monitor because it really looks great other than a really dark screen.
 
Today I noticed what seems to be dust in between the glass and the LCD on my monitor. It's only noticeable on light backgrounds.

It's not a dead pixel, because it seems to leave a shadow on the LCD panel (or its on the LCD which leaves a shadow on the glass). It's also somewhat abnormally shaped and bigger than just one pixel. It might even just be some weird black smudge on the inside glass.

I've tried using suction on the glass and trying to tap whatever it is down but no luck.

Any suggestions? Is an exchange the only option? Would a local computer repair shop be faster?

I wasn't aware that these monitors had glass covers on them.

If we were talking about an Apple Cinema Display or a Hazro, that would be a different matter.
 
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He just means that there was some dust/dirt embedded into the screen. I had this on mine as well. Apparently Samsung builds these panels in the desert.:rolleyes:

Here's an example:

ea231wmi-dirt-full.jpg
 
He just means that there was some dust/dirt embedded into the screen. I had this on mine as well. Apparently Samsung builds these panels in the desert.:rolleyes:

Here's an example...

Thanks for explaining. In other words, what you're saying is the dust is embedded between the screen coating and the LCD panel?

Is that a photo of dust on a S**A850 monitor or is it just a generic example? It would be nice to know what exactly we're looking at.
 
Thanks for explaining. In other words, what you're saying is the dust is embedded between the screen coating and the LCD panel?

Exactly.


Is that a photo of dust on a S**A850 monitor or is it just a generic example? It would be nice to know what exactly we're looking at.


Just a generic example. It looked worse on my SA850.
 
Something is embedded between what I see and where I can touch, whether that external layer a Protoss force field or a glass cover or neither.

Fortunately, provantage is awesome and is sending me a new monitor *before* I return the old monitor, on good faith that I will return the old monitor immediately.

Awesome, awesome, awesome, and they've just earned future business.

To be honest, it's barely noticeable in day to day use. I could live with it, and probably wouldn't have exchanged it if it meant being without a monitor for a week or two. It's only visible on bright backgrounds and even then, I sometimes lose track of where it is and have to actively search for it.
 
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