Samsung S27A950D 120Hz

eddie500 said:
Can this crosstalk ever be fixed or is this something permanent?
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From the sounds of it the crosstalk is a software issue that can be fixed by messing with settings or if that doesn't work then waiting for a driver update. More people are using 3D now and these monitors will be bringing in more still so I imagine the drivers will be getting better in the months to come.
 
Falesh said:
From the sounds of it the crosstalk is a software issue that can be fixed by messing with settings or if that doesn't work then waiting for a driver update. More people are using 3D now and these monitors will be bringing in more still so I imagine the drivers will be getting better in the months to come.
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It must be a tridef software issue as it doesnt appear when using the hardware 2d-3d conversion. I have tried the 2d->3d alittle more now, and its quite pleasant for tv episodes and felt fine with wow.
 
NCX said:
I have no idea. I'm in Canada and got it from NClX, where it shall most likely be returned.



Crosstalk is terrible with consoles, I will try some 2D-3D conversion with PC games. With movies the 2D-3D works, however you can only have a little bit of depth other wise there is to much cross talk. I prefer the 2D colors vs Conversion.

I actually don't like it because both 250$ monitors I bought last year had better contrast/blacks, color, much better screen unifomirty and one of them supported 72hz which is the perfect happy medium VS getting a 120hz screen with heavy bleeding.

It still isn't a bad monitor though, it is very fast, has great default color accuracy, but this is mostly ruined by the screen uniformity on my unit and low contrast ratio. I could exchange it, but given my current disapointment I would rather pay the restocking fee.
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Anything you would recommend over this samsung for someone who wants a 120Hz gaming monitor?
 
nhtalbot said:
Anything you would recommend over this samsung for someone who wants a 120Hz gaming monitor?
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Can't say yet, we don't fully know how Tri Def Compares to Nvidia 3D, however the Planar does have better contrst/blacks.

2D-3D SW:TFU Image Depth 10
3DD2009.jpg


Image Depth 2
3DD2014.jpg


In 2D
3DD2049.jpg


There is so much crosstalk ghosting there is no point in destroying the colors. Panning the camera slightly results in a 50% crosstalk image even with the depth set to 2 on the debris in the background. The 2D to 3D conversion crosstalk is different, in 2D-3D the monitor ghosts when panning the camera resulting in the double image, while the CT seen in left 4 dead 2 can be seen when standing still. With actual 3D games the CT can be fixed.

I tried converting Necrovision which runs @80fps and found the same thing. Necrovision actually benifits from the darkened image the conversion offers and looks cool, but there is 2 much CT ghosting!
 
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Ouch... Thanks NCX.

So I take it this monitor isn't recommended if 3D is the purchaser's main interest ?
 
NCX said:
Can't say yet, we don't full know how Tri Def Compares to Nvidia 3D, however the Planar does have better contrst/blacks.
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Thanks NCX.
I have a pair of ATI 6970's making the Planar not an attractive option for me, so I'll wait and see if the Samsung can be tweaked to eliminate CT. Or maybe I'll just get the Samsung and just use it in 2D and take a chance on the 3D getting better over time with driver/software improvements. High framerate 2D gameplay is my primary concern. 3D is a distant secondary interest.
 
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nhtalbot said:
Thanks NCX.
I have a pair of ATI 6970's making the Planar not an attractive option for me,
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Why does that make it not an option for you, what problems does the planar have? I've been considering that one over all the others so far.
 
For straight up 2D 120hz the monitor certainly is not worth 700$+tax considering there are sub 250$ 24" with better PQ. Yes they are not 120hz, but 120hz+3" is not worth 500$ more unless you are rich. The Planar appears to have the best image quality, so going for just 120hz this is the best choice unless one wants a Glossy Asus.

I tried 2D-3D conversion with L4D 1 as well, same thing. To much crosstalk, might as well stick with the better picture 2D offers.

Tried L4D1 with the Tri-Deff launcher and it is horrible! In the Tri Def Menu Virtual 3D can be turned on which then makes it playable and the 3D is fine, didn't see any cross talk.

Under the Performance Tab Virtual 3D can be turned on where you will see this menu. Changing the Screen Depth/Percent In Front changes the screen size, look at the black bars on the side, and delicious backlight bleeding.

With Virtual 3D off the Screen Depth reduces cross talk. Remember with L4D2 anything over 3 shows noticeable crosstalk when standing still in game. Other than the crosstalk ghosting I yet to see any real ghosting in 2D and with proper 3D in L4D2.
 
Samson4EiT said:
Why does that make it not an option for you, what problems does the planar have? I've been considering that one over all the others so far.
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I thought the Planar only worked with Nvidia cards for 3D, but now I am not sure. Can anyone help us out on this?
 
I think I figured out how to use the in game 3D properly

with L4D2 I set the Scene Depth 40+Percent in Front-90 and there is some real nice depth with no cross talk except on my actual gun which was only visible when looking up at the blue sky. Essentially no matter what I did there was some crosstalk some where. Before I only used a screne depth of 3 and the 3D effect is extremely minor (pointless). Still once I used 40/90 the 3D was fantastic.

Crysis could be cool but I only get around 40fps with everything cranked with SLI 480s, 2D+Colors+no Vysnc>>3D lowered visual settings+dulled color.

Tri Def lists Metro 2033 but I get a message saying it is only supported in DX9. When I turn 3D off the picture is totally messed up and I can't change any settings. Same thing for bad company 2, think I will have to un-install tri-def to play these games in 2D.

Tri Def binds itself to the numpad, 0 turns it on and * toggles 3D on/off. 5 is enter, 0 is back/esc (keep hiting it to turn the menu off) and you use 4 left/up 8/6 Right/2 Down to go through the menu.
 
I am trying to build a new computer. What would recommend for this 27" monitor,.
radeon 6950, 6970, 580gtx?

Does it matter nvidia or ati?

Is it OK to save the money and go for radeon 6950? I could get crossfire 6950 for almost the price of 1 gtx580
 
I really wish i knew what was going through Samsung's mind when they suddenly wanted to get in on this 3d pc gaming market. Not exactly a thriving market, and very much so not their type of thing.

Have a bad feeling this will not be supported very well. They should just stick to providing the panels.
 
eddie500 said:
I am trying to build a new computer. What would recommend for this 27" monitor,.
radeon 6950, 6970, 580gtx?

Does it matter nvidia or ati?

Is it OK to save the money and go for radeon 6950? I could get crossfire 6950 for almost the price of 1 gtx580
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For this monitor I would get crossfire XFX 6950's and unlock the extra shaders to get close to 6970 performance. People seem to have good success doing this with XFX cards. If you have great case cooling you could overclock them as well or simply flash to 6970 bios. This is the most cost effective solution. I would have gone that route, but my 'man cave' is in the attic which gets pretty hot in the summer, so I got a used pair of 6970's instead which I figure can probably handle a bit more heat.
 
nhtalbot said:
For this monitor I would get crossfire XFX 6950's and unlock the extra shaders to get close to 6970 performance. People seem to have good success doing this with XFX cards. If you have great case cooling you could overclock them as well or simply flash to 6970 bios. This is the most cost effective solution. I would have gone that route, but my 'man cave' is in the attic which gets pretty hot in the summer, so I got a used pair of 6970's instead which I figure can probably handle a bit more heat.
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In addition, since he's getting this monitor, you want the best possible frame rates, and 6950's unlocked in crossfire should outperform a gtx 580 in most games.
 
I guess the only issue would be the 3gb of ram vs the 2gb of ram. Also since this samsung does not support 3dvision, does it matter less about getting nvidia.
 
nhtalbot said:
At 1920x1080 the extra ram is wasted.
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Actually I plan on eventually upgrading to 3x s27a950, so the resolution will be much higher than that.

I was reading where the 6950's have screen tearing issues and stuttering issues when running multiple monitors. Maybe I will have to go the geforce route.
 
3x27" will be horrible with TN panels due to the viewing angle limitations+reflections depending on the enviroment. Don't be so itchy with your buying trigger finger. We still don't know the full extent of the 3D suport vs Nvidia and the image quality is only average+back light bleeding.

I tried Tron Legacy with 2D-3D conversion on my PS3 It seemed to work quite well, there was some minor cross talk when Sam meets his dad (lots of light blue-ish tons+whites), but with the dark scenes it worked well.

Infamous 1 worked well converted, it actually looks better in 2D-3D conversion compared to its dull brownish look. There was some CT ghosting but it could easily be mistaken for typical LCD sample+hold effect.

With 3D in general the monitor seems to have trouble with light blues/greys, like those seen in L4D2 here

I have a feeling KZ3 will be a better experience converted with some CT ghosting vs Native 3D Ps2 graphics.
 
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Can any one that has picked this up from Canada check there warranties card. Is it a North American warranty or a Canadian warranty? Also can you list you Product # just so it easy to check if some one selling the same exact release. If it North American I would really have any issues in importing one of these to the US to check it out from a ATI perspective. Does Nvidia even offer any form of Quad frame buffering since I wonder if this is part of the reason for some of the Cross talk. Also to the best of my knowledge only HDMI and DisplayPort have an official method of indicating if a frame is L or R eye. Has all the test been on Duel DVI or DisplayPort for PC input? Do Nvidia cards have native DP or are they using a converter?



Also since no one has posted any picture of the glasses. Are they blue tooth or IR? And how are they powered wireless recharging or battery operated. The manual on the Samsung CA website is completely non informative about the glasses and devotes a grand total of 2 lines to mentioning a replacement model number.



Has any one tried the iZ3D drivers?



Sorry for long 20 questions type of post. But I really want to give this monitor a spin. And I am trying to get as much info as I can before I pull the trigger.
 
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I am planning to pick this up tomorrow just to upgrade my 22" 120hz monitor to a decent size.

As a fan of 120 hz, I dont think i will be let down at all
 
It comes with a card for NA customers and Candian. I would wait for a local US retailer to get them in stock due to the high chance of getting one with backlight bleeding.

I'm using the Dual Link DVI cord included with SLI GTX 480's. The 480's don't have DP, nor due I plan on buying a cord, sorry.

Glasses Picture, not sure if they are rechargeable or BT/IR.

IZ3D is for ATI cards, can't help you there.

I tried to capture the difference between Killzone 3.

2D-3D conversion

2D
Random 2D shot

Native 3D
Native 3D with corsstalk

In terms of crosstalk with KZ3 in Native 3D the above picture is as bad as it gets, there is no ghosting crosstalk like with 2D-3D which is pretty but bad the game looks much better. However the game looks terrible. Hard to capture the actual difference with a camera though.
 
how does it perform in just plain old 2d 120 hz mode. Could you detect any latency ( input lag )?


does the glossy screen create any real problems?
 
Vega said:
Just some thoughts on day two with the monitor.

Mine also does have some back light bleed on the sides. Although back light bleed has never really bothered me as I don't usually watch dark movies etc on my computer monitors. The back light bleed is virtually undetectable while viewing normal lit content on my particular sample. Not to mention every single LCD I've ever had/seen has had some degree of back light bleed. I also only use the monitor for smooth 2D so I will not comment on any 3D issues.

The reasons I like this monitor:

-Really quick pixel response time. This combined with 120Hz makes for a great gaming experience.
-Seemingly none to low input lag. (Sorry only subjective thoughts from a competitive FPS gamer very sensitive to input lag. I do not have the equipment to do a proper input lag test.)
-Ultra-clear panel really makes images "pop" and blacks look very deep (perceived and not measured) all while not being super reflective like traditional glossy screens (Ex: Apple 27").
-Unit is VERY stylish, real brushed aluminium and piano black finish on a super thin display. Looks very modern compared to most other LCD's these days. The competition looks virtually the same since LCD's were first released with simple cheap black rectangle plastic housings. Loving the asymmetric stand/design.
-Low power use/LED setup. The back of the display literally stays cool to the touch. Extremely little heat produced by the base where the electronics are housed. This is helped by having an external power brick only delivering 14 volts to the unit.
-The unit was actually made in Mexico. Very rare these days to have something like this not made in China. I like it when the rest of the world gets a crack at manufacturing products.
-High quality touch sensitive buttons for menu operation.
-Motion sensor and dynamic brightness sensing actually work and are useful.
-Color reproduction appears to be quite accurate.
-Up to 20 degrees of monitor tilt allows quite a liberal range of tilt. I currently use around 10 degree and I could not imagine a scenario in which you would want to tilt it back further than 20 degrees.


Cons:
-Some back light bleed around the edges.
-Price is a bit steep.


I would rate the monitor a 9 out of 10 as my number one priority is a good gaming experience. I would also give the HP ZR30w 30" I have compared it to also a 9/10 but I prefer the Samsung for gaming. The 120Hz smoothness is less fatiguing on my eyes.

Remember your priorities and mileage may vary with this monitor as I have focused on a great 2D gaming experience.
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So if price was not an issue, would you go hp or this one? Is this one much smoother than the hp making the loss of 1600p and IPS worth it?
 
Linthart said:
no :( but i'll be experimenting with a few hack at the end of next week when i get mine to trick it into being so
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I hope you're successful, that would go a long way in ending my monitor search for my sli setup. The 3d vision drivers are just so much better than the others. I hope it alleviates the serious crosstalk issues this thing has in 3d
 
I tried Mass Effect 2 in 3D and was blown away. The colors were actually much better in 3D and by default there was very minimal CT, didn't really even have to tweak it.

I wish I had a nvidia 3D kit+Asus VG236H for comparison. Mass Effect 2 was so awesome in 3D I am tempted to exchange the Samsung or get the Asus instead of just a full refund.

I read somewhere that to tweak the 3D with Nvidia 3D you have to go to the NV Control Panel? If so Tri-Def definately has the advantage since it offers tons of easy in game settings using the Numpad.
 
Hum I thought iZ3D and triDef were designed to both be graphics card brand agnostic. Did the monitor come with triDef?


Thanks, for the info on the warranties card I can order in peace now. I hate how Samsung being so quite about this. It make it so uncertain when the monitor actually going to come out in the US. Noing my luck I it will arrive on my doorstep the same day it come out in regular stores. At any rate I will cross my fingers and hope I have good luck on the back light.
 
Yes it comes with TriDef which binds itself to the numpad in games, with a simple press of 0 you can tweak all the 3D settings.

I extremely strongly highly recommend waiting for local US retailers to get these in case you get one with major light bleeding.

While we may look at Samsung decision to support TriDef as negative, (the software presentaion looks cheap and only the junky Zalman 120hz monitor supports it lulz), they are simply trying to please every one. It would really be nice if some one with both Nvidia 3D and TriDef could do some comparisons.
 
i just powered this monitor up.


While i know many people will find little faults here and there, so far I am very happy with it. Nice color, but of course , the only thing thing that really matters is 120 hz.

coming from a samsung 2233rz 3d monitor, the greatest improvement as far as visual quality is improved handling of whites. the 2233rz was very shitty for whites.

have not even played with the 3d yet

sadly, i dont got time for the rest of the night to play with it. I will likely come in here sunday and share some detailed experiences .
 
NCX said:
While we may look at Samsung decision to support TriDef as negative
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I don't like the proprietary method nVidia pushes with their 3D Vision and I'm glad Samsung have gone with an open standard. Also, I think they would have had to pay nVidia to get certified too which would have meant that AMD card users would have been paying more for something they don't use.
 
I guess I am returning mine, might get the Asus might not.

Nearly finished everything for the written review and I'm uploading a youtube video, all in all the only real flaw is the backlight bleedig and black levels which are defeated by sub 250$ monitors, but they still aren't bad. It just wasn't worth the 809$ for me considering I was actually downgrading in terms of 2D image quality.

Other than initial 3D impressions I'm going to have to leave that up to you guys to test out as I don't have very many games supported by Tri-Def 3D, some of which didn't work.
 
NCX said:
I tried Mass Effect 2 in 3D and was blown away. The colors were actually much better in 3D and by default there was very minimal CT, didn't really even have to tweak it.

I wish I had a nvidia 3D kit+Asus VG236H for comparison. Mass Effect 2 was so awesome in 3D I am tempted to exchange the Samsung or get the Asus instead of just a full refund.

I read somewhere that to tweak the 3D with Nvidia 3D you have to go to the NV Control Panel? If so Tri-Def definately has the advantage since it offers tons of easy in game settings using the Numpad.
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The nvidia 3d emitter has a hardware wheel on it for depth, ive owned a nvidia 3dvision kit from the start almost, and never felt i needed to change anything else (sometimes an ingame setting needs to be turned off/on, but thats a different story). Never seen noticable crosstalk on 3dvision+ 2233rz and the benq xl2410t.
Since nvida cards+this tridef 3d software only allows side-by-side 3d and has massive crosstalk (i tried to tweak lfd ALOT today and simply couldnt get it even nearly acceptable), id say tridef pretty much is only for amd cards (unless it has specific bugs with geforce gtx 590 which i use). Hopefully they will receive tons of reports saying it sucks for nvidia cards and focus on improving it, or even better, samsung/nvidia allowing 3dvision on it.

The resolution looks totally horrible with tridef+nvidia side-by-side 3d, i assume playing side by side means that the actual resolution is 960x1080 stretched out to 1920...
The framerate also takes a huge hit for me in lfd2, and wow loginscreen looks like a slideshow (guesstimated to 10fps) and crashes when i try to enter game.

The 2d->3d conversion however is really really nice with lfd2, i get no crosstalk whatsoever in lfd2 in 2d->3d with depth on 5 (default), and i obviously keep my normally very high fps.
I sat and played it for hours now, really enjoyable.

I suspect the key to not getting crosstalk with 2d->3d conversion is to have very high fps (120+).
In lfd2, no crosstalk, in wow instances with really high fps, no crosstalk, if in a capital city with 40-60 fps, there is crosstalk between high contrast objects, such as say a spire or mountain that is dark and a clear sun/sky.
In movies/tvseries (obviously horrible fps, 24-30?), there is crosstalk in 2d->3d when the camera pans in any speed but really slow.
Im surprised at how low input lag the 2d->3d adds, before i got the screen i had assumed it would add noticable amounts of input lag as it somehow should process the images, but it doesnt. Would be very interesting if someone could measure input lag properly with 2d->3d conversion on.

So far i would rate (added cinema/3dvision as reference) the 3d on the S27A950D on a Nvidia GF GTX 590 (note that it might work fine on other cards, i dont know):
Cinema: Quality 6/10, 3D-effect 5/10 (I have never played any games in a 3d cinema, and the 3d-effect in movies is what it is, so it just gets an average rating).
Nvidia 3D-vision: Quality 8/10, 3D-Effect 8/10 (the only con being that the glasses darken everything quite abit).
Tridef DDD on Samsung S27A950D+gtx590: Quality 1/10, 3Deffect 4/10 (the only good thing being that the glasses do not darken everything very much. Perhaps this is the reason for the crosstalk, however? Can add that movies look fine, tiny bit of crosstalk sometimes but not a dealbreaker [EDIT: Tried simply using mplayer classic home cinema and setting the screens hardware 3D to side by side, it now looks perfect with no crosstalk at all - i'd now rate movie playback as better than 3dvision due to less darkening glasses])
2D->3D Conversion on S27A950D: Quality 7/10, 3D-Effect 3/10 (Looks very good to me with high fps, the 3d-Effect is however quite mild and sometimes distorts perspectives on 2d content).

I am still very happy with mine and will keep it, the 2D quality+speed is the best ive seen, 3D movies are great, and the 2d->3d conversion is above expectations. The tridef 3d does totally suck though with my nvidia card, but hopefully they will sort it out, 3D games isnt my priority anyway + i still have my other monitors if i really want to use my 3dvision kit. Can also hope its possible to use 3dvision with some hack and/or disabling the edid etc in the future.
 
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zeroumus said:
i just powered this monitor up.


While i know many people will find little faults here and there, so far I am very happy with it. Nice color, but of course , the only thing thing that really matters is 120 hz.

coming from a samsung 2233rz 3d monitor, the greatest improvement as far as visual quality is improved handling of whites. the 2233rz was very shitty for whites.

have not even played with the 3d yet

sadly, i dont got time for the rest of the night to play with it. I will likely come in here sunday and share some detailed experiences .
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Looking forward to your observations. What video card do you have?
 
Morkai said:
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I got 90+ FPS with SLI 480's in l4D2 (maxed settings) and eliminated the crosstalk by changing the settings. By default the CT is terrible, but it was easily fixable. I didn't try anything but console games+movies with 2D-3D conversion and saw horrible CT ghosting.

I noticed the low res (streching 960x1080) but thought this was normal. That explains why KZ3 looked so terrible, it probably runs @640x360 stretched:eek:

Now I'm glad I returned it. The 27" is nice but the Asus VG236H should offer identical 2D PQ+ better 3D for 200$+ less.
 
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